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"The Aura is Mine!" Lucario Social Thread! (With More Moderators!)
- Thread starter Rocket Raccoon
- Start date
- Status
Croi
Smash Lord
It looks like your biggest issue is that you're too aggressive. By which I mean, you're looking too hard for hits on neutral. Lucario is not a rush-down character while Captain Falcon is - if you try to beat him at his own game, you're gonna get bopped.
Your following up on your confirms just fine and that was a beautiful opening to the third game, but when you're getting hit and juggled, you try to airdodge and get back to the ground ASAP, which is bad because Falcon will just rush you again. Lucario has a hard time getting down when he's in the air, so just try to get away rather than get through. Maybe try deliberately going offstage, where most characters would be afraid to chase.
When you land from a nair, follow it up with a uair rather than shield. Best case, Falcon tries to dash grab you and gets kicked in the face. Worst case, you miss and you get grabbed anyway. It's much safer than just sitting in your shield because the only thing Falcon can do out of a dash is either attack (and his dash attack isn't great) or grab (which he will try nine times out of ten). Or usmash but that'd be really ballsy.
If you feel you absolutely must use a smash attack, use dsmash instead of fsmash. It's slightly less laggy and it punishes rolls much better. The tradeoff in power is totally worth it, particularly against faster guys like Falcon or Sonic.
Finally, use more Force Palm. Like, way more. And work on landing its grab. It's your most reliable kill move.
Your following up on your confirms just fine and that was a beautiful opening to the third game, but when you're getting hit and juggled, you try to airdodge and get back to the ground ASAP, which is bad because Falcon will just rush you again. Lucario has a hard time getting down when he's in the air, so just try to get away rather than get through. Maybe try deliberately going offstage, where most characters would be afraid to chase.
When you land from a nair, follow it up with a uair rather than shield. Best case, Falcon tries to dash grab you and gets kicked in the face. Worst case, you miss and you get grabbed anyway. It's much safer than just sitting in your shield because the only thing Falcon can do out of a dash is either attack (and his dash attack isn't great) or grab (which he will try nine times out of ten). Or usmash but that'd be really ballsy.
If you feel you absolutely must use a smash attack, use dsmash instead of fsmash. It's slightly less laggy and it punishes rolls much better. The tradeoff in power is totally worth it, particularly against faster guys like Falcon or Sonic.
Finally, use more Force Palm. Like, way more. And work on landing its grab. It's your most reliable kill move.
Croi
Smash Lord
e: double post
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Steam
Smash Hero
I think I needed to be more aggressive offstage. that's the only way I was ever gonna kill him
SmashRacer
Smash Journeyman
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
So we A tier according to the Japanese tier list. It ain't gonna last.
Steam
Smash Hero
honestly as down as I was on lucario the other day, I just need to get better. Trela made Brawl Lucario work, we can make this lucario work.
That's... that's kind of unfair lol. Will probably never happen against a human, but damn... that's not even max Aura, bros.
Nysyr
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2014
- Messages
- 288
The way I read the tier list is that the Japanese like to play aggro as ****, and subsequently make more mistakes ergo get punished more; hence why a heavy punish character like lucario would be perceived as good when in reality they are just playing into lucario's favour.
All of the top characters bar lucario are rushdown characters lol.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
I expected a tier above Ubers for years. Smogon takes too long debating and not enough battling.
More of them need to see how well they can do on the Battle Spot. Mastery of those metas are far harder than Smogon metagames.
Well, I can rant forever about Smogon, but short answer is...
Expected it, they took too long, lol.
Sparky15
Smash Journeyman
Finally fought a good Diddy Kong an hour or two ago. Had a rough time. Beaten all of my mains, including Lucario. So...any tips of info about Lucario's MU against Diddy Kong or something???
Sparky15
Smash Journeyman
That was similar to the story I told you guys.
I think diddy shuts down lucario heavily. One of the main things to note is aura sphere and side b destroy banana instantly so you can punish him for pulling one out on you if you're close or atleast show him he cant pull it out when you're near. Learn when they use the monkey flip and try to bait it. And try to learn why you're getting grabbed and how to prevent it.
All extremely generic info but it's a start, don't know much mu specific things. diddy kong is just hell.
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
In Brawl, Diddy vs. Lucario was a fun matchup where Lucario could actually terrify Diddy. In Smash 4, this matchup is ass for Lucario due to the lack of range we once had. Diddy literally outranges us at distances where it matters most, not do mention can kill reliably thanks to how good down throw is.
On a completely unrelated note, Feebas is my highest search leveled Pokemon in AS. AotA would be proud.
On a completely unrelated note, Feebas is my highest search leveled Pokemon in AS. AotA would be proud.
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RT
Smash Hero
For what purpose?
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
SuperSmashKing009
Smash Ace
Any tips for captain falcon? Im having issues with his Upairs.
sparkaura
Smash Apprentice
SuperSmashKing009
Smash Ace
Anyone care to do matches?
I'd wifi sometime later today if you want, if you had skype or something it'd be way easier to setup tho
Sparky15
Smash Journeyman
Croi
Smash Lord
Anyone play any good ROBs? A friend of mine mains him and I'm almost certain it's a -2 or even worse. I have to switch to Duck Hunt to barely stand a fighting chance.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Pressure his shield a little and then he is so much easier to approach.
The throw to UAir and SDI being super weak in this game against his UAir and DSmash is obnoxious.
I love throwing his Gyro up into the air as hard as I can, that way it is a lot more difficult to grab it again, you can combo into it, and he can't pull it out again until it disappears.
I'm sure we can do a lot of stupid things to him. Just gotta look at that frame data...
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
So got 5th at a tournament yesterday, lost to the same Rosalina twice. How the hell does that matchup work?
Steam
Smash Hero
don't let him land. ever.
Archimedes
The Rad Simisear
ugh I hate myself, I knew I should've pre-ordered a Lucario Amiibo from toys r us but now they aren't taking pre orders and this whole discontinued thing with some of the other amiibos is getting me worried.
God I hope nintendo is smart enough to realize how high the demand is. I really want a Lucario amiibo.
God I hope nintendo is smart enough to realize how high the demand is. I really want a Lucario amiibo.
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Gune
Smash Lord
Yeah I hope so too, My heart sank when I heard that the Lucario amiibos sold out already...
RT
Smash Hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbPEnCrm2hE
Just a quick vid regarding platforms and AS on moving platforms and slopes. Nothing huge, probably stuff that has been noticed but never fully tested.
It doesn't work for either custom moves from what I tried. There might by other moving platforms, but I don't remember or honestly care.
Just a quick vid regarding platforms and AS on moving platforms and slopes. Nothing huge, probably stuff that has been noticed but never fully tested.
It doesn't work for either custom moves from what I tried. There might by other moving platforms, but I don't remember or honestly care.
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Steam
Smash Hero
will be at a local tonight. will be streamed at www.twitch.tv/clutcharena
Pentao
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2006
- Messages
- 95
Watching right now, grats on reaching Grand Finals. Out of curiosity, why Bowser for the Shulk match up?
EDIT: Grats on winning the whole shindig. Nice hair.
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So I'm on the verge of dropping Lucario. 
I really don't want to, but I'm finding him impossible to use now (or I just suck).
I just can't seem to be able to adapt to having no range anymore, and his terrible neutral game. Every time I use him I get destroyed. It's even worse against fast characters. I mean, I do better with Zelda of all characters.
Help, I need enlightenment or something, haha.
I really don't want to, but I'm finding him impossible to use now (or I just suck).
I just can't seem to be able to adapt to having no range anymore, and his terrible neutral game. Every time I use him I get destroyed. It's even worse against fast characters. I mean, I do better with Zelda of all characters.
Help, I need enlightenment or something, haha.
Steam
Smash Hero
I went bowser against shulk because he competes with his range a lot better. and I saw the shulk in the game before going for loads of hard reads for early kills, so I figured I'd start bowser and see how it went. It went well so I stuck with him.
Croi
Smash Lord
In all honesty, I've been thinking of dropping Lucario for someone else, too. Like you said, his range is poor; his frame data isn't stellar; his neutral game is just terrible. Nothing is more frustrating than getting the stock lead and then racking your opponent up another 70%, just to die and know that you're not going to kill him until he is at 200% or you yourself are in kill percentage again. His pros are completely amazing, but his cons are just so frustrating to work with. Mostly, I'm only sticking with him because he's the character I've put the most time into by a wide margin.
But I think I might stick with him. In Brawl, I mained Wario. Wario has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as Lucario: piss-poor range and weak neutral game, requiring your opponent to make a mistake and capitalizing on that. Wario's recovery was second only to Meta Knight and his "comeback" factor was second only to Lucario (because it didn't matter what percent you or your opponent was at; like Lucario in Smash 4, you only needed one specific hit). His combo game (yes, he had one!) was pretty good if you learned the traps. They both have surprisingly hefty weight that, coupled with their recovery, made them harder to kill than most.
There were more than a few instances where I strongly considered dropping Wario, and in hindsight, maybe I should have. When you're talking about frustrating characters to master, you don't need to ask anyone other than a Wario main. We got grab released by half the cast into moves that killed at 80%. But I stuck with him, even if I didn't really know why. And then I went to Apex and I beat @TheReflexWonder in a best two out of three.
Lucario takes a lot of effort. I don't use Rosalina or Sheik, but when I get zoned by Luma or hit by Rosalina's dash attack or fair-combo'd by Sheik into her bouncing fish or get grabbed by Diddy, it doesn't seem like it's a ton of effort to accomplish; just some fast fingers and a halfway exploitable move. Lucario does get stuff like that, but only when his Aura is so low that it doesn't really matter. And yet most tier lists still put him near the top.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you have the gumption to want to learn Lucario, and you can look past his poor early/neutral game for his nigh-unbeatable late game and recovery, you'll be able to clean house. Like any pro at anything, you need to put in the time and the effort before you'll be seeing any serious results. It's all about capitalizing on your strengths and, just like with Wario in Brawl and learning not to get grabbed, minimizing your weaknesses. If you feel like there's another character you sync better with, then go for it. But if you want to learn Lucario, you'll also have to learn what it's like to get bopped from time to time.
All that said, it's a good idea to have a secondary. I struggle a lot against characters with noticeably better range than Lucario - Lucina/Marth and especially Villager because now not only can I not hit him, but he's taken away my most powerful special attack. I've been seeing some decent success with Duck Hunt Dog and I might start considering Bowser, like Steam said. Having any secondary at all is much better than having none, so if you want to pick up Zelda, or even make Zelda your main and Lucario your secondary, that would be a wise choice.
But I think I might stick with him. In Brawl, I mained Wario. Wario has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as Lucario: piss-poor range and weak neutral game, requiring your opponent to make a mistake and capitalizing on that. Wario's recovery was second only to Meta Knight and his "comeback" factor was second only to Lucario (because it didn't matter what percent you or your opponent was at; like Lucario in Smash 4, you only needed one specific hit). His combo game (yes, he had one!) was pretty good if you learned the traps. They both have surprisingly hefty weight that, coupled with their recovery, made them harder to kill than most.
There were more than a few instances where I strongly considered dropping Wario, and in hindsight, maybe I should have. When you're talking about frustrating characters to master, you don't need to ask anyone other than a Wario main. We got grab released by half the cast into moves that killed at 80%. But I stuck with him, even if I didn't really know why. And then I went to Apex and I beat @TheReflexWonder in a best two out of three.
Lucario takes a lot of effort. I don't use Rosalina or Sheik, but when I get zoned by Luma or hit by Rosalina's dash attack or fair-combo'd by Sheik into her bouncing fish or get grabbed by Diddy, it doesn't seem like it's a ton of effort to accomplish; just some fast fingers and a halfway exploitable move. Lucario does get stuff like that, but only when his Aura is so low that it doesn't really matter. And yet most tier lists still put him near the top.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you have the gumption to want to learn Lucario, and you can look past his poor early/neutral game for his nigh-unbeatable late game and recovery, you'll be able to clean house. Like any pro at anything, you need to put in the time and the effort before you'll be seeing any serious results. It's all about capitalizing on your strengths and, just like with Wario in Brawl and learning not to get grabbed, minimizing your weaknesses. If you feel like there's another character you sync better with, then go for it. But if you want to learn Lucario, you'll also have to learn what it's like to get bopped from time to time.
All that said, it's a good idea to have a secondary. I struggle a lot against characters with noticeably better range than Lucario - Lucina/Marth and especially Villager because now not only can I not hit him, but he's taken away my most powerful special attack. I've been seeing some decent success with Duck Hunt Dog and I might start considering Bowser, like Steam said. Having any secondary at all is much better than having none, so if you want to pick up Zelda, or even make Zelda your main and Lucario your secondary, that would be a wise choice.
Steam
Smash Hero
current top tiers are top tiers specifically because they're braindead easy. Lucario has the tools to be solid but he's by no means easy.
Rysir
The shorts wearing blue anubis
Being someone who will push, punch and resist in a rough circumstance even if it breaks one of my bones, can't say Id ever drop lucario under any situation, very comfortable to play as for me also its too fun to be on high alert 24/7 since its quite a rush when in even a losing position. But yes having a secondary is indeed good to have nonetheless! I personally run Ike as my secondary (which may or may not be creating bad habits such as down throw -> up special when not playing as Ike. Though that has hilariously worked out at times.)
SmashRacer
Smash Journeyman
Just signed up for my first ever online tournament. Any tips?
BTW here is the link for the tournament I signed up for: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2ofkxv/tournament_wiiu_europe_weeklies_10th_of_december/
BTW here is the link for the tournament I signed up for: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2ofkxv/tournament_wiiu_europe_weeklies_10th_of_december/
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