The Armory: Using G&W's arsenal to the fullest extent (8-13-08) Now on: Usmash

[Marshie]

That turtle drawing is win, Nice thread

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-air, one hell of a good attack. Amazingly overused, but it's so good, that hardly matters. I believe I stole that statement from Shin's synopsis of the F-air, from the Melee Ganondorf forums that is. =P

IMO, this is perhaps the 2nd best or THE BEST D-air in the entire game. It comes out fast, gives G&W a fastfall option that can be canceled midway, can spike, and it hurts like hell when it hits. It does awesome damage (13% is no joke for an aerial, I think Ike's F-air does that much damage, better yet, if you SPIKE with it in midair, you can do 19% and combo into a D-tilt for a grand total of 25%.) and it actually can kill if undiminished (unlikely, since you'll want to use this for doing damage). This attack also has like...the most priority of all D-airs, and really low ending lag. This makes G&W incredibly hard to juggle safely, and most characters like to deal damage by juggling. G&W is one of few characters that does not truly have a blind spot directly below him.

This was my favorite attack in Melee, and it still is one of my favorite attacks in Brawl.

 

[cutter]

I believe Link's Dair has more priority than G&W's Dair. Even then, G&W's Dair still has ridiculous priority.

 

[Neb]

A footstool'd dair is pretty hot.
Works good out of a reg. teched dthrow.

Sorry to get a bit off topic, but what are some of the ways you guys return from high altitude? Dair is usually telegraphed, which sponsors punishment. Just wanna mix-up my returns.

 

[_Phloat_]

While it is telegraphed, it is easier to predict than to punish. I normally dair and slowfall while DIing sideways away from the enemy. This could get predictable, but is good to have in an arsenal.

 

[Voxx]

Dair low enough under the stage to be able to UpB into it

Cancel my dair and c-stick my turle.

spam nair right below the edge.

It all depends on who im playing against.

 

[cutter]

Alright, I finally got a chance to update this thread. I was surprised at the low amount of replies from discussing a move like Dair... but meh a lot of what you guys said was great stuff. I also added my own 2 cents in the update as well.

Moving on to t3h Fair

 

[Voxx]

Credit card, box of fun, whatever you wanna call it. Its the bread and butter of gws aireal attks. Its useful when you cant get that smash attk to hit or when you want to knock them out of the stage. Its powerful so it needs a bit of lag when landing but if your quick enough your sure to get a dsmash once your opponent gets close to punish you.

I seriously think GW needs this in his air game, even though its one his laggyest move.

 

[J0™]

Fair is a nice move, great for KO'ing when sweetspotted.
I used to use it a lot in the first few days I got Brawl, cause you could l-cancel it in Melee xD The landing lag is very punishable without l-cancelling, so be careful where you're trying to land it.

 

[Noa.]

When someone is trying to get back to the stage, and they are above it, I use this to knock them back and potentially KO.

 

[laird]

i like using fair out of UpB when edgeguarding.

 

[jdtsunami]

Its ability to off stage chase and KO is sometimes just amazing followed by GW's ability to recover easily to the ledge in case its missed.

 

[_Phloat_]

i like using fair out of UpB when edgeguarding.

This.

After an up-b edgeguard, the falling into fairs is great follow up.

 

[Neb]

Yeah, I use that occasionally, the FF fair is pretty good aside from the backfire of lag.
Soft fair can trip.

 

[Asht]

I normally try to avoid using fair too much until I have my oppenent on high enough % to KO them with this move as I believe the knockback severly suffers if overused.

And yeah basically what everyone else had said, I try not to short hop Fair because it has a lot of landing lag and can be easily shieldgrabbed if i do find myself using to rack up damage hehe.

 

[chon3]

i will note that shorthopped fairs can be confusing to play against if the person has, say, 110 percent or more. even a non-sweetspotted hit will send the opponent far enough back to prevent them from punishing the ending lag, and they won't be used to that style of play so itll trip them up. use this sparingly, though.

also, it's great for edgeguarding. if the character chooses the attack move or the jump move off a ledge, you can punish them immediately with an easily sweet-spotted fair.

 

[_Phloat_]

It has been a day since the last discussion. Really this move is only an aerial killer, some damage racking properties and if you are hit in the air and don't have time to turn around it can be a good choice.

But really there isn't much to debate about it.

Wasnext?

 

[Voxx]

I suggest maybe USmash or FSmash, since we have a complete guild on Uair.

 

[Frate]

how about dthrow?

 

[_Phloat_]

how about dthrow?

I would suggest we start that discussion with grab, i.e. how we lead into grabs and the like, before we get to the actual throws.

 

[Voxx]

There is a whole thread on D throw, i dont think we should discuss grabs at all since they are all situational and part of a mindgame? (Exp: switch it up by using down throw and up throw)

 

[_Phloat_]

Grabs are part of a mindgame?

I hate buzzwords.

You mean you can use grabs to mix it up? I don't feel a need to mix it up if the d-throw gets me more damage 75% of the time, and can shake an opponent to the core if he knows you are inside his head.

 

[cutter]

I'll get to the Fair update tonight; I'm really busy right now.

Alright, we're on Ftilt next. I wanted to get this sucker out of the way before we tackle G&W's nasty stuff that we can really discuss ad nauseam about.

So yeah post whatever you can think useful for the Ftilt. Personally, I almost never use this move because Dtilt just feels like a much superior move over it.

 

[Vlade]

Ftilt, eh?

Great move to punish spotdodgers because of its long-lasting hit box.
Cancels out some projectiles as I have found.
I also like using it near the edge to send the opponent off the stage, so then I can follow up with fair or dair spike (if possible), although I'd rather use the dtilt if its fresh.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

It's good to use if the person roll dodges behind you when you do the Up-B to Down air approach since it comes out relatively quickly.

 

[Noa.]

In most situations, dtilt is usually better, but I guess ftilt could be a substitute when dtilt is stale.

 

[Voxx]

That pretty much sums it up,
only useful when predicting a roll (sometimes best to use a Fsmash on c-stick)
when Dtilt is spammed too much
or when juggling at low dmg.

Next please

 

[Jmex]

last quick thing on f-tilt. Personally i like to use it after a back air. Back air to f-tilt. Try it, it works, and usually it leads to other things.

 

[cutter]

Cool stuff guys. Ftilt update complete (albeit very small)

We've all been waiting for it, it is time discuss death incarnate, the Turtle.

 

[A2ZOMG]

**** I think the F-tilt is useful.

It can kill at moderately high percents, it comes out fast, and can be comboed into easily at low percents from a B-air or D-air. It's a good option from a D-throw too. Does almost twice as much damage as a D-tilt which is good.

Anyhow the B-air, awesome attack. G&W's number one spacing tool in terms of range, duration, and being safe from defenses. Against a good opponent, just be careful as people can SDI Up and towards G&W to avoid the final hit. Otherwise great attack. I don't think as of now it's his best aerial anymore (I dunno more like the D-air IMO), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

 

[_Phloat_]

Insane priority. Insane range. Insane damage for its ease-of-use. Overall a great move.


If you hit an opponent that is already been shielding for even a fraction of a second and he doesn't know how to prevent shield stab he will get hit. If he powershields the first hit it is time to DI away because the opponent's shield will probably withstand the hit. Great move to poke with as you FF by, to rack on damage.

It might just be me, but RARing with GaW seems very easy and almost as quick as just SHing a Fair.

 

[Neb]

Insane priority. Insane range. Insane damage for its ease-of-use. Overall a great move.


If you hit an opponent that is already been shielding for even a fraction of a second and he doesn't know how to prevent shield stab he will get hit. If he powershields the first hit it is time to DI away because the opponent's shield will probably withstand the hit. Great move to poke with as you FF by, to rack on damage.

It might just be me, but RARing with GaW seems very easy and almost as quick as just SHing a Fair.

RAR'ing is pretty much second nature for me.

 

[_Phloat_]

RAR'ing is pretty much second nature for me.

Yea, it seems less like GaW has 3 smashes and 5 aerials and more like he has 4 smashes, one can be used in the air, and he has 4 aerials. The turtle basically is my fair, for all intents and purposes.

Cmon guys, anything else you can say about the turtle.

If it hasn't been said enough, the turtle is very safe on block, and if used correctly creates a beastly zoning game that can be very, very difficult to overcome. The turtle is an insane aerial and would MAKE GaW if he didn't already have such great moves. The turtle replacing Snake's Fair = auto win.


On a more serious note, the turtle is good AND universal, to the point that some characters simply cannot deal with it. A decent GaW with a spammy nature is not exactly easy for even a great captain falcon to deal with.

The range is insane too! It can, I believe, hit the grenade that a Snake cooks while in his shield WITHOUT hurting GaW. Most aerials cannot claim that!

 

[A2ZOMG]

The only disadvantage of the turtle is that it needs to be spaced well, in the event you have an opponent who SDIs up and towards you to avoid the final hit of the attack.

Fastfalled turtles make an awesome brick wall.

 

[Neb]

The only disadvantage of the turtle is that it needs to be spaced well, in the event you have an opponent who SDIs up and towards you to avoid the final hit of the attack.

If you space it wrong, and they SDI above you, you can always surprise them with an angled Upb.

 

[cutter]

If you space it wrong, and they SDI above you, you can always surprise them with an angled Upb.

Very true; you can buffer an Up B just as the landing hitbox comes out and you can quickly escape. There is very little cooldown with the turtle, especially with the oh-so-hated landing hitbox.

 

[Neb]

There's actually a bit of counter-options if they wiggle their way out above you- Uair, Second Jump -> Bair, DI'd Air-dodge, Second Jump -> DI'd Fair, etc. So yeah. Your only screwed if you SH a bair and retreat it wrong, there's a small window for your opponent to attack.

 

[_Phloat_]

If they start SDIing out of my turtle I normally FF the turtle to get the landing hitbox off...

Is this a good thing to do?

 

[Voxx]

Yeah it is, my friend almost ALWAYS sdi's since i play him so much so i mainly just FF everyother turtle and space.

EDIT: Well i think i know everything i need to know about GW so i wont be posting here. I'll only visit to see strategys on oponents.

Goodbye GWFORUMZ

 

[_Phloat_]

Yeah it is, my friend almost ALWAYS sdi's since i play him so much so i mainly just FF everyother turtle and space.

EDIT: Well i think i know everything i need to know about GW so i wont be posting here. I'll only visit to see strategys on oponents.

Goodbye GWFORUMZ

Go to a tourney and tell us you know everything you need to know

You can never stop learning!