The Armory: Using G&W's arsenal to the fullest extent (8-13-08) Now on: Usmash

[Zephramrill]

I was playing a Pikachu player who was fairly decent. I got lucky and blasted a 9 as either my first or second judgement and he was done for the first stock. After that he would let me control the game as he would run and run allowing me to chase with raring. Eventually he started running and he spammed shocks. Bad decision. I oil panned that ***** so fast. ANyways what im getting at is that a combination of oil pan and judgement is a great intimidation if you can luck out and get an early judge kill. Judge 6 is also sweet at high percentages.

 

[Voxx]

I didnt wanna make a thread asking this so heres my question

How soon in the battle should i use judgement? Before my opponent hits 50%? Or after?

 

[Neb]

It really is a combat move, sorta like bair and nair. Its okay to throw some Judges at low ratios to rack up damage and mix together combos. I don't recommend Judge at high percentages though, just because you have a bundle of other, more fail-safe KO attacks.

 

[Voxx]

Neb, post some new vids

 

[_Phloat_]

I also like using judge on a Snake that is recovering.. While fair may be better, if they are going to recover anyways (heavy, C4.. ugh.) I find that the possibility of a 6 spike, and a 9 kill make it a lot better.

this is if you manage to get the snake off at low damage. At higher or medium damage its better to fair.

 

[Neb]

Neb, post some new vids

I have been, added Love's team battles, and NoJ's tournament matches yesterday.

 

[Zephramrill]

Phloats got it right there, I try similar tactics.

 

[SothE700k]

9s dont kill at 0% if im not mistaken. But its worth a try i suppose

Correction. I've witnessed my friend who used G&W 5 seconds at the very start of the match 9 someone and they died at 0%

That guy was so mad...

 

[bludhoundz]

Correction. I've witnessed my friend who used G&W 5 seconds at the very start of the match 9 someone and they died at 0%

That guy was so mad...

I actually just survived a judgement level 9 hammer at ~ 50%, maybe significantly more (I think I had 94% after the hit, but I could be wrong) with Lucario on Smashville. I went to the very far corner of the screen and then offscreen, but I never died. He hit me while falling out of his Up B while he was about to grab the edge (he missed the edge and fell to his death due to the judgement attack, stupid computer).

I'm not sure how it happened.

 

[Zephramrill]

I actually just survived a judgement level 9 hammer at ~ 50%, maybe significantly more (I think I had 94% after the hit, but I could be wrong) with Lucario on Smashville. I went to the very far corner of the screen and then offscreen, but I never died. He hit me while falling out of his Up B while he was about to grab the edge (he missed the edge and fell to his death due to the judgement attack, stupid computer).

I'm not sure how it happened.

DI, Sweet Luck and some other physics help from the game.

 

[Neb]

When its a CPU, theres no such thing as luck, I betcha they're programmed to get at least one 9 every match, lol.

 

[_Phloat_]

What has been discussed is how awesome 9s are...

How do you guys like to land the judgement? Spotdodge and stuff, I've seen that.

Anything else?

 

[Voxx]

Right after a tech chase, i like catching them with nines.

another question.

How often do you grab on a real tournament?

 

[cutter]

Ok, I managed to get the update for Judgment up now that I had the time.

Time to move on to one of G&W's best moves, and it's certainly one of my personal favorites, the Dsmash

 

[Kegsbane]

I spam D-Smash and somehow still manage to kill with it at 90-100% on sweetspots. This move is seriously overpowered, one of the main reasons I use G&W.

 

[James177]

It really is, good for spacingPunishing rolls, It's sweetspot is not only in the picture, it's like 1/4 of a pikachu length that's invisible.(at the tips)

 

[Voxx]

Great for edge guarding and rolls, usually my kill move for heavyer annoying chars.

 

[laird]

it is the best move in the game for punishing people who try to roll behind you. and all you have to do is flick the c-stick and then go back to what you were doing. haha

 

[betterthanbonds9]

what frame does dsmash hit and end?

 

[_Phloat_]

what frame does dsmash hit and end?

We don't have frame data yet..

Soon =\. With a lot of IASA frames =D

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

For some reason, I find that the sour spot is better than the sweet spot... Kind of Ironic because the Sweet spots in attacks are supposed to be better than the sour spots...

 

[betterthanbonds9]

We don't have frame data yet..

Soon =\. With a lot of IASA frames =D

serious? lucario has had pretty accurate frame data (DT is questionable) for a few months

 

[cutter]

serious? lucario has had pretty accurate frame data (DT is questionable) for a few months

How do you accurately find frame data? (as in, no estimating, but exact figures) Is there some program that does this, do you set it up on a videocamera, or what?

@ DemonicTrilogy: The sourspot is much better against someone with a crappy horizontal recovery or a tether. Other than that, the sweetspot is better because of its range and it kills ridiculously early.

 

[Ruuku]

Not only that, G&W does well when his opponent is above him.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

what frame does dsmash hit and end?

G&W's Dsmash: 14 frames of startup, hits on frame 15, roughly 10 frames of cool down

 

[betterthanbonds9]

How do you accurately find frame data? (as in, no estimating, but exact figures) Is there some program that does this, do you set it up on a videocamera, or what?

two methods, one involves a capture card the other involves a computer stopwatch

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162044
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162023
http://smash.scribblewiki.com/Help:Frame_Data

-enjoy

G&W's Dsmash: 14 frames of startup, hits on frame 15, roughly 10 frames of cool down

thanks

 

[_Phloat_]

Oh, I thought no one had it. My bad, sorry..

Anyways, it has great IASA frames so it is hard to punish as long as you don't spam it.

 

[Voxx]

My friend learned how to perfect shield my turtle so i tried other ways to use it. I tried fast falling it but also DI'n far enough to skrew his grab, once he was going to grab i was able to kill him with my dsmash on a sweetspot. It was great.

 

[DrAwesome]

The Dsmash is one of my favorite moves because its a great finisher. Dthrow to Dsmash is great for the characters it works on. Also an auto canceled Nair to a Dsmash is useful but admittedly harder to pull off.

 

[Xavi]

Dsmash is godly, 'nuff said.

 

[cutter]

Alright, update up for Dsmash.

Utilt is next.

 

[Voxx]

Great to combo off in early percents, and has a good forward range

UpTilt, UpTilt, sh, nair and maybe a UpB unless they airdodge

 

[Voxx]

Edit on Judgement:

"Edgeguarding Snake while he comes back with his Cypher is also good to get a free hit as well."

Judgement isnt the best thing you can do here, its great to land a free judgement but its best just to grab him and dont do a thing. When hes free out of your grab, he wont be able to use his upB anymore.

 

[Mr Mattastic]

I think its the most underused move. I like to use it against the heavier people early on to rack up some quick early damage. It's fast and it covers a pretty wide arc.

 

[ADMJP]

i tend not to do this move against many chars since being directly under most characters is a bad thing (i.e. Lucario, Lucas, MK, etc.) but a quick one or two before the up-b is a decent way to gather damage.

 

[BarakuDragon]

utilt is vgood for racking up some dmg when someones on a platform and ding out of it straight away isn't easy, although i don't use it alot as much as i should it's still very useful and i might start using it against fox smash spammers lol.

 

[Neb]

Egh, I've yet to find a spot for utilt in my game, 'sides for projectile defense. I know plenty of combo's out of it, but there never seems to be a time where it could be put to use, especially since utilt s'really only for early percentages.

 

[Lotsa_Spaghetti]

I killed someone with u tilt once. Sure, they were at like 120% but it still totally caught me off guard.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The U-tilt combos into itself a little bit, and you can COMBO into an Up-B with it.

I also use this as a surprise kill move at very high percents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Ut2ILT6DM 2:06

 

[cutter]

Time for another update.

Moving on to one of G&W's most spammable moves, the Dair.