The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Drumma_Boi]

I think its great to see the tier list finally updated. it shows that all the backroom'ers care alot about the game. this considering most fighters dont get updated that much.

I have always thought fox and falco belonged at the top because they both have their ways to take an opponent and hit the and then they wont get out of their combo or even have a tech opportunity before they die. Then again i say if someone played marth perfect...... *cough* ken *cough*...... i dont think anyone would be able to get on marth with his disjointed range besides a shl'ing falco or even an shl'ing fox could bate him. iono those are just fantasy matches or w/e they rnt the only way the match up would work. w/e enough with the top tier for me. I just wanted to say i accept the new tier list except for alittle bit at the bottom.

I am not sure i think IC's should be above samus because i cant see ic's beating samus but this assures me that there are other math-ups that IC's does better in than samus. so iono where i stand on that one.

I am also glad jiggs went down below doc because i have always thought doc did alittle better in most matchups than jiggs did.

also one more thing, i do think luigi should be alittle higher than where he is. but maybe thats because i think luigi is annoying (thanks to ram).

I guess over all i dont have many problems with the tier list I think it represents the way the game is working as of now in time, but like the old list this will be out of date eventually.... hopefully not before brawl.

 

[Mrobinson587]

First we were not talking about tier placement. We got sidetracked.( i agree marth is in a good place)
What we were talking about is marth v peach
but people were blowing it out of proportion which is what i was defending.
I'm saying it's marth doesn't counter peach, more like marth has an advantage.

You guys should read each other's posts. The fact that Marth has an advantage over Peach, but doesn't **** has been stated in the last 3 pages... (+rep?)

That is all i am saying.

 

[Drumma_Boi]

well, im sorry i interupted the discussion going on... i usually dont argue with people on the boards about things that are set in stone (pretty much anyway). or for that matter i dont like to argue on the boards at all id rather do it in person


i was just interjecting that i liked the new tier list but had a few questions about IC's over samus when saums would beat IC's (in my eyes), and also y has luigi not gone above link yet it cant just be because germ and zarelid **** with link. but i never see luigis place in tournys or get as close as a link so im sure thats y. i just always thought luigi should be above link under mario.... just cause mario likes to be on top.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Where have you been? shiek has probably some of the best tilts in the game, aside from ganons uptilt(kills with 1 hit at around 50 %damage), an amazing F-air, good u-air. and stripesorbars, have you ever even PLAYED a good fox? like ken, hes proficient, and kunningkitsune, even chillin? no?didnt think so


I agree with chozenone

LOL I'll just ignore this moron.

Fox IS that good. I'd say that even though he might not win tournies, the majority of people in the top 8 results-wise play Fox. Just because he doesn't take top honors doesn't mean he's not a good character, by any means. That's like saying Falcon or Samus isn't good.

Sheik won SAVII and that's about it. Like I said before, it's all about character matchups. Isai beat Ken with straight Sheik at MLG Orlando, but I don't think he would have won if he played Sheik against everyone, including Chillin.

It's ridiculous to say that Fox "isn't that good".


"Anyone who's talking about Peach having "easy kill moves" I challenge you to name them. Assume proper DI on the part of her opponent. With good DI, most of Peach's kill moves get completely neutered."

When opponent is off the stage: Nair Bair Fair Turnip
On the stage: Fthrow

Lemme rephrase that:

If the tier list is based on tournaments, then it should be:

Falco
Shiek
Fox
Marth
Peach

And if it's based on how a charcater stacks up in the current metagame:

Falco
Shiek
Fox
Marth
Peach

Fox is not a better character than Shiek and Falco.

Yes he has more "potential" but what the **** is potential if no human can obtain Fox's AR potential???

 

[x1372]

"Anyone who's talking about Peach having "easy kill moves" I challenge you to name them. Assume proper DI on the part of her opponent. With good DI, most of Peach's kill moves get completely neutered."

When opponent is off the stage: Nair Bair Fair Turnip
On the stage: Fthrow

Ok, so peach can kill opponents when they're off the stage. This completely ignores the fact that both sheik and Marth are virtually untouchable unless they're REALLY freaking far off the stage, and that Peach puts herself at tremendous risk to edge guard them in any way mentioned except turnips. And good players will CATCH the turnips. Fox and Falco, well, the challenge is getting them off the stage to begin with.

Peach's forward throw is one of the most overrated kill moves in the game. I can tell you right now that under 150 damage it isn't a kill move, assuming proper DI. If I grab Vidjogamer's Marth at the far right side of FD and forward throw him to the right, he can DI to not only survive but be so high that he is virtually impossible to edge guard from there, at upwards of 150 damage (I think the cutoff was 168 where he'd finally die). So good DI completely and utterly nukes that one. Smart play on the parts of Peach's opponent will tend to downplay how useful the others are.

Compare that to Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth, all of whom have ways to combo into killer moves at (and often under) 100% damage.

Frankly I'd say that Marth isn't just a soft counter, but a hard counter for Peach. But regardless, the people who say that it's an even matchup or that Marth has a disadvantage are completely out to lunch.

 

[AlphaZealot]

x1372 is right that it isn't based off of tournament results.

It is the tournament metagame, this is slightly different then results. If it were results, Marth would be first, Ice Climbers would be second. It isn't just results though, it is taking into account who is playing which characters and how developed a characters metagame is. Just one person cannot define a characters metagame, Chu Dat has been playing the Ice Climbers for years, yet the characters didn't recieve a nice jump on the tier list until other players proved that they could play the Ice Climbers well, prodigies are more of an exception to the rule, although often times they do show what can be accomplished.

In summation, tier list is not based on results. It not based on theory either though, saying that it is based on theory (as some of the past lists have been), is erroneous. Any character can, in theory, be good. Instead, it is based on what is seen in tournaments among all the top level players. Take Mario versus Doctor Mario for example. Mario is located lower on the tier list, is he really that different from Doc? Some would say so, but the real differance is that people actually play Doctor Mario in tournaments. In all the tournaments I've been to this year, I've very rarely seen Mario played, people almost always go with his stronger alter ego. The result? Doctor Mario has become more developed in more match ups and in more areas then Mario has.

 

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

So Mario IS underused, right?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Hell yea, I heart Mario too, one of my favorite characters.

 

[ZoSo]

Just one person cannot define a characters metagame

Why not? Wouldn't the best player of a character represent the pinnacle of that character's metagame?

Marths are winning the vast majority of tournaments and overcoming all of his toughest matchups. This means that you are, more likely than not, going to lose to or place lower than a Marth if you go to a major tournament. Therefore, Marth should be #1. Why isn't he? If we take the players and their individual skill into consideration, we are completely defeating the purpose of having a tier list at all.

Results, metagame... whatever. It's all influenced by the players, no matter how you look at it. The tier list should reflect the merit of the characters and nothing else.

 

[K20AFoozbal]

OMFG maybe people should read the past few pages and look at our arguments stating that
Marth v Peach is not a rapefest for Marth

Marth05 remember we are looking at all marth's not just ken. (like i said sometimes i think marth=ken LOL)

UmbreonMow it is not a rapefest for marth when matches between higher skilled players commonly end with 1 stock differences that go either way

mcc our "logic" came from looking at match results not charecter statistics

K20AFoozbal
Nightmare KoRn Kid
maybe we shouldn't try to explain it.

dear god im considering PMing ken husband or fast like tree and asking them to defend that it is not rapage. (or even wife or somebody) . Please save me from bugging them.

OMG someone that ****ing gets it! thank you... wow... that's pretty much all i was trying to say bro. and you put it beautifully... and it's funny... marth05 hasn't posted since... think we scared him off... lol jk it's not like he's a bad guy, just a little biased as it were...

wife beat ken with peach an it was only one macht, ken crushed him with fox

*edit* BTW Fox crushes peach, in a regular macht no in a technical macht yes
its called drillshinewaveshineupsmash

P.S i did not space that last word for a reason

in two of the videos i posted, wife beat ken, then lost the remaining 3. and mrobinson posted the other video where someone else beat ken... so it's safe to say it's a good match up if there's one stock left and the best player in the world is still losing some rounds to a peach. that's all i'm trying to say... and yea peach has no real game against fox, but not many do... save for IC... but that's a different argument so yea... peach just isn't fast enough to take fox... and it shows...

stripesorbars, i definately agree with the fox AR comment... fox is too fast for a human to accurately control to his full potential... if that wasn't the case then he probably would be top of the top. but it's not the case so your point is definately proven...

and foxes aren't even that common in the top 8 anymore... unless they're either swapped out or subbed in for different characters... fox/marth... falco/fox or marth/fox... stuff like that...

so yea. now back on topic. thx.

 

[mcc]

in two of the videos i posted, wife beat ken, then lost the remaining 3. and mrobinson posted the other video where someone else beat ken... so it's safe to say it's a good match up if there's one stock left and the best player in the world is still losing some rounds to a peach. that's all i'm trying to say... and yea peach has no real game against fox, but not many do... save for IC... but that's a different argument so yea... peach just isn't fast enough to take fox... and it shows...

peach wins 1/4 matches. doesn't seem that even :/. there are also other variables to look at like which stage they were playing at or stitchface or maybe ken was having a bad day etc. of course, some of these reasons may be in favor of the peach player, but i'm arguing that marth>peach in 1 vs 1 match.

and ICs vs fox is a near equal match

 

[K20AFoozbal]

marth>peach some of the time. but it's still a good match. which is what i've been saying all along.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I swear Shiek players made this tier list.

 

[BigRick]

I hope I won't see more posts about Marth VS Peach...

Just one person cannot define a characters metagame.

I agree that one person cannot define a character's metagame, but I got a theory that one person can affect the metagame of other chars:

Like I mentionned earlier, Chu Dat really messes up Sheik's meta when it comes to major tourneys. In a smaller scale tournament, Sheiks do not have a big chance to meet good ICs because they aren't played as much as other chars. But in a more important tourney, like MLG, you'll probably get more chances to face Chu and get screwed by him as you go forward in the brackets. If you main Sheik, you'll either have to keep up with him and face the music, or switch to your weaker secondary.

Many ppl expected Shino or CJ to reach the OC2 finals, but it didn't happen. They got knocked out by Chu Dat...

 

[REØ]

K20AFoozball wtf are you talking about? last time i came to this thread you said peach ***** marth......

no you're wrong and LOL @ "i think we scared him off"

i'm not trying to be a *****, i'm not some marth slave, i actually play fox and pichu a lot more than marth, i'm just saying that peach doesn't **** marth, and marth has a slight advantage over peach

 

[Deleted member]

Fox IS that good. I'd say that even though he might not win tournies, the majority of people in the top 8 results-wise play Fox. Just because he doesn't take top honors doesn't mean he's not a good character, by any means. That's like saying Falcon or Samus isn't good.

Sheik won SAVII and that's about it. Like I said before, it's all about character matchups. Isai beat Ken with straight Sheik at MLG Orlando, but I don't think he would have won if he played Sheik against everyone, including Chillin.

It's ridiculous to say that Fox "isn't that good".


"Anyone who's talking about Peach having "easy kill moves" I challenge you to name them. Assume proper DI on the part of her opponent. With good DI, most of Peach's kill moves get completely neutered."

When opponent is off the stage: Nair Bair Fair Turnip
On the stage: Fthrow

Fox isn't that good though. He's light, gets comboed to death by everyone, has no range, and can't deal with crouching all that well. Falco is light and eay to combo yes, but falco also has the safest attack pattern in the game and death combos to match. Fox can't even combo that well.

Peach doesn't have good KO moves, just good edgeguarding. Don't site examples from when players were playing out of character. Ken wasn't playing like himself @ Orlando, so it's not fair to use arguements based on 1 tournament out of the past 10 or so.

 

[frotaz37]

The one reason I think Fox is higher than Falco is because of his recovery. While it's true that Falco has a safer attack pattern, and can often be a lot harder to hit, it only takes a few hits to kill a Falco. Hit Falco one time while he's off the side and he's not coming back. Fox's ability to return from very far away, and far below the stage, is in my opinion the biggest thing that makes him the better character.

Also, Fox is faster than Falco, so while Falco has a better offense, I think Fox has a better defense and counterattack game.

Fox is better at killing off the top too...you know there are a lot of arguments I can make for Fox being the better character...I think there are too many variables in this game, I don't think "combos and offense" are the only things you should base the superiority of a character on.

 

[K20AFoozbal]

K20AFoozball wtf are you talking about? last time i came to this thread you said peach ***** marth......

no you're wrong and LOL @ "i think we scared him off"

i'm not trying to be a *****, i'm not some marth slave, i actually play fox and pichu a lot more than marth, i'm just saying that peach doesn't **** marth, and marth has a slight advantage over peach

umm... find a quote and show me where i ever said that "peach ***** marth" seriously.

and you play pichu.... so that's enough talking from you... pichu is bottom tier for more than just tourney results dude...

peach and marth is just a good match up. i'm not saying either is clearly better. it's a good match. off day for ken or not. end of story.

*side note regarding peach's edgeguarding* even if they would catch the turnips, by the time they went to drop it they just get hit by another one... so in reality an Fthrow+turnip edgeguard combo would be really nice...

*second side note regarding fox*
-fox isn't the ubercharacter...
-in all honesty for kills better off the top. what with the shine uair combo... it's very nice.
-fox is faster, yes but AR is the only thing that can really control him to his full potential... it's been proven too many times that he's too fast for humans to use to the best of his ability.
- i do agree that he's easier to get back on the stage. you can tell in most matches.
- drill/shine is about the only really good combo fox has.
- hard to KO cept with smashes and being shinegayed off the side...

i think falco is better and that falco players have proven that fact. falco will never leave your side when he gets you up in the air and it's so sick to watch. while that's just my opinion... i know you all know what i'm talking about.

 

[Silent_Death]

the list seems reasonable.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Why not? Wouldn't the best player of a character represent the pinnacle of that character's metagame?

Marths are winning the vast majority of tournaments and overcoming all of his toughest matchups. This means that you are, more likely than not, going to lose to or place lower than a Marth if you go to a major tournament. Therefore, Marth should be #1. Why isn't he? If we take the players and their individual skill into consideration, we are completely defeating the purpose of having a tier list at all.

Results, metagame... whatever. It's all influenced by the players, no matter how you look at it. The tier list should reflect the merit of the characters and nothing else.

Marths are not winning the vast majority of anything. A Marth is. Ken. The next best Marth player is who? KM? Husband? Now lets look at Fox. We have Ken, Chillin, Azen, KoreanDJ, PC Chris, Mew2King, Tink, the list goes on. Every in the top 10 except for Isai and Chu Dat essentially play 1 character and a space animal, sometimes it is only space animals. The point isn't what a prodigy can do with a character, because if it is only one person we will never know if its the characters strengths or the players. But if we have a dozen top players producing results with the same character we can make the inferance that it is both the player and the characters advantages.

On Ken's own list, he put Fox and Falco above Marth.

 

[mcc]

and you play pichu.... so that's enough talking from you... pichu is bottom tier for more than just tourney results dude...

peach and marth is just a good match up. i'm not saying either is clearly better. it's a good match. off day for ken or not. end of story.

*side note regarding peach's edgeguarding* even if they would catch the turnips, by the time they went to drop it they just get hit by another one... so in reality an Fthrow+turnip edgeguard combo would be really nice...

*second side note regarding fox*
-fox isn't the ubercharacter...
-in all honesty for kills better off the top. what with the shine uair combo... it's very nice.
-fox is faster, yes but AR is the only thing that can really control him to his full potential... it's been proven too many times that he's too fast for humans to use to the best of his ability.
- i do agree that he's easier to get back on the stage. you can tell in most matches.
- drill/shine is about the only really good combo fox has.
- hard to KO cept with smashes and being shinegayed off the side...

i think falco is better and that falco players have proven that fact. falco will never leave your side when he gets you up in the air and it's so sick to watch. while that's just my opinion... i know you all know what i'm talking about.

there's nothing wrong with playing pichu

you can't just say "__ beat ken once in a match" and conclude that peach and marth is an (near) equal matchup

catching a turnip and dropping it takes a lot less time than throwing a turnip and picking one back

drill-->shine is not fox's only combo
there's no shine uair combo
he's still great, full potential or not
uair can also be a KO move. sure it can be smashed DIed, but how many people can do that every time?

how have falco players proven that he's better than fox?

 

[K20AFoozbal]

alright lets see you take pichu to a competition and play him through out... ok? nuff said.

on falco there is the shine uair combo. falco's shine knocks them up and out instead of foxes down and out. so shine up into the air and then uair when they start to fall back down. i've seen this done consistantly.

watch the aces and 8's video in the video discussion session. dope does this quite a bit.

oh, and falco's dtilt is very nice. does quite a bit of damage and sends you real high up. not saying it's a ko or anythiing, but it shows me that it's better than foxes.

bombsoldier plays falco doesn't he? watch some of his 1v1 videos. (if i'm wrong and he plays fox then sorry :] ) either way, bombsoldier and dope are really good falco players.

i'm not saying fox sucks by any means it just seems, from what i've seen and experienced, that falco's are getting better than foxes. only time will tell but i predict falco's taking over very soon. just like IC have been moving up recently... but we'll see

 

[nookrulz]

He never said that pichu was good. He just said that somebody's opinion shouldn't be blindly disregarded because they play Pichu.

There's no way that Falco is better, or even comparable to Fox in terms of vertical KOs on most stages. While Fox can't shine->uair, he can uthrow->uair. Fox's uair is much, much stronger than Falco's, which is honestly of more use just to keep them in the air rather than to KO. Finally, not only is Fox's usmash much more powerful than Falco's dtilt, it's a lot easier to get off.

Lastly, you listed two good falcos. We'll go ahead and add PC Chris, since it seems you forgot about him. That doesn't make up for the fact that Ken, m2k, PC, KDJ, Chillin, and Tink play Fox (that's double the number, fyi). And what have you experienced? I'm not saying I'm anywhere close to well traveled, or that I attend a ton of tourneys, but didn't you say you haven't attended a single one?

 

[Deleted member]

ken has also said that roy ganon bowser DK counter marth.

every single player in the top 10-15 plays marth. even chillindude. ken has also dominated every space animal player. m2k has beat azen, but after that, same for azen too.

as for fox vs falco

fox
-kills better off the top
-better recovery
-fairly hard to attack
-runs faster
-shinespikes against sucky people

falco
-kills better off each side and down, 3 sides to fox's 1
-heavier, lives longer with good DI
-impossible to attack, falco can keep you from attacking
-death combos
-best camping/defensive game
-double fox's range
-low end kills
-better air game

yeah not much of a comparison

 

[REØ]

i'm not arguing that at all. that's what i don't think y'all seem to get. i'm only saying that peach is a good match up for marth. because... if ken is the best marth in the world and he still loses every once in a while to peaches then it's safe to say that peach is a good counter for marth. when played well and skillfully.

it was never about which character was better, it was about what was a good match. and OBVIOUSLY marth and peach are good match ups. thx

look at what you said in red, PEACH COUNTERS MARTH WTF

what's wrong with playing pichu?.........and stop with the pichu bashing seriously it's gay, you obvoiusly haven't fought a decent pichu player, i'm pretty sure my pichu can **** which ever character you play as

 

[mood4food77]

i knew it, dk and bowser do have an advantage on marth, marth has no throw combo's on them...i new there was something going on there...sorry, my thesis has finally been proven true, and on the fox and falco part...shouldn't falco be ahead of fox because of falco's advantage on sheik which is a greater advantage than fox's on peach because sheik is placed higher on the tier list than peach...every other match they have is about the same with a few matches here and there

 

[K20AFoozbal]

ken has also said that roy ganon bowser DK counter marth.

every single player in the top 10-15 plays marth. even chillindude. ken has also dominated every space animal player. m2k has beat azen, but after that, same for azen too.

as for fox vs falco

fox
-kills better off the top
-better recovery
-fairly hard to attack
-runs faster
-shinespikes against sucky people

falco
-kills better off each side and down, 3 sides to fox's 1
-heavier, lives longer with good DI
-impossible to attack, falco can keep you from attacking
-death combos
-best camping/defensive game
-double fox's range
-low end kills
-better air game

yeah not much of a comparison

i like this guy. that's what i've been attempting to say all along. i just don't play either character so i don't have the same view as others do. but it doesn't take a genius to see that falco is more well rounded.

PC chris plays every character lol. not really... but he plays a lot of chars. and the people you just named who play fox... most of the play falco just as much (i.e. ken, m2k, etc etc.)

plus i'm going to chudats bi-weekly this saturday in fairfax. i don't have personal experiece just yet but i do have eyes and ears and i have been looking at tourney results and watching the matches there in and falcos are winning more matches than foxes... and the results show that there are less foxes than before and more falcos coming up in the ranks. stripesandbars has been saying this for quite some time too... (not really about falcos, just about there being less foxes up top than before...)

and i'm not even gonna argue about pichu... there's no point.

 

[ZoSo]

Marths are not winning the vast majority of anything. A Marth is. Ken.

It shouldn't matter whose Marth it is. That's the point of a tier list.

Am I wrong? If that's the case, somebody just say so and we'll save a lot of time.

The next best Marth player is who?

I would have to say Azen.

 

[leafgreen386]

and the people you just named who play fox... most of the play falco just as much (i.e. ken, m2k, etc etc.)

M2K is a Fox MAIN. He plays Fox a lot more than he does Falco. I've only seen one video of him playing Falco, of around 20. And at MLG Orlando I didn't see him go Falco at all, either. I've never seen Ken go Falco. Name one tourney where he has in the past year (shouldn't be too hard, I would think).

I will agree Falco>Fox. It's probably his hardest matchup, unless you're on FD, and even then it's still a challenge.

Oh, and I like the way you compeltely ignored Marth05's post.

 

[mcc]

I will agree Falco>Fox. It's probably his hardest matchup, unless you're on FD, and even then it's still a challenge.

i think they were talking about overall comparison, not fox vs falco

and shinespikes dont only work against sucky people. ken got shinespiked before

 

[nookrulz]

i think they were talking about overall comparison, not fox vs falco

and shinespikes dont only work against sucky people. ken got shinespiked before

and kdj and m2k both got shinespiked @ Chicago. try and tell me they suck. Go ahead. Do it.

 

[leafgreen386]

i think they were talking about overall comparison, not fox vs falco

Ok. Then falco still kills almost everyone else nearly stopping their advance with SHL and insane combos that Fox simply cannot do.

 

[Deleted member]

if fox can shinespike you, you're already dead.

 

[Arj]

It shouldn't matter whose Marth it is. That's the point of a tier list.

Am I wrong? If that's the case, somebody just say so and we'll save a lot of time.

Hmm I think he's implying that its an exception rather than the norm. It would be ******** to base the tier list off of 2 people who both play Fox as well putting a character on the top. It seems that the two best Marth players use Fox, in addition to the tons of people who already main fox (Chillin,KDJ, m2k, and just about everyone else has a fox in their arsenal).

 

[NJ'zFinest]

i'm trying to go to a tourney, so give me a break. there aren't as many in frickin md as you think. take it easy all.

But there's a ton of good players in the MD area
Please play someone good, then come back to this thread.

thx

 

[Nightmare KoRn Kid]

I want a few of my opinions to be clear.

Marth vs peach is not fair. It's simpley not ****. It's fairly easy for a peach to RANDOMLY pull a nice thing from the ground, and get an easy stock. DEPENDING ON HOW RANDOMLY well peach CAN EASILY DO the matches tides will often turn, and quickly. HOWEVER THE MATCH IS STILL ADVANTAGEOUS TO MARTH, he shouldn't lose, but he should have a hard time.

Fox completely deserves his spot at top. He is only even challengable by falco for his spot.

Falco should probably win against fox, pending very little with map, and I think he's a decent fox counterpick.

Marth should be below Peach, she has more beneficial match ups than he does, and she has a huge random factor, with turnips.

Sheik vs Fox isn't **** for shiek, however the match is probably 57/43 in fox's favor. Sheik vs Falco is probably 58/42 Falco's favor.

Sheik has an advantage against every character, other than ICs, and the space animals
AND she has more beneficial matches than fox or falco, BUT THE REASON SHE SHOULD ONLY BE AT 3 AND NOT ONE IS THAT ALMOST EVERYONE PLAYS FOX OR FALCO.
Meaning that even tho she counters more than 80% of the other characters, more than half of all smashers use fox or falco.

Link is in no way higher than luigi...

Pika should be higher than Roy. He DOES have the best Up smash in the game...

Just saying, that's my own 2 cents. Just so peple don't misinterpret me.

 

[The Blackstar]

Why do you guys waste your time arguing with these trolls?

I hate these threads. They always end up being 90235987239847 pages of "Pichu counters Fox, but only on Wednesdays" or some ****.

 

[K20AFoozbal]

M2K is a Fox MAIN. He plays Fox a lot more than he does Falco. I've only seen one video of him playing Falco, of around 20. And at MLG Orlando I didn't see him go Falco at all, either. I've never seen Ken go Falco. Name one tourney where he has in the past year (shouldn't be too hard, I would think).

I will agree Falco>Fox. It's probably his hardest matchup, unless you're on FD, and even then it's still a challenge.

Oh, and I like the way you compeltely ignored Marth05's post.

i do believe ken still claims that falco is in his arsenal, whether he plays him or not. and as i was saying, most of the people who fox main also sub falco. that's it.

and there was no sense in arguing about how much pichu sucks. if he can beat me with pichu then i will forever be ashamed of myself, but pikachu is a different story... pichu just dies too easily... but i'd love to try that match up someday. good times. but as i said before, pichu is at the very bottom for a reason. that's all i've got to say about that.

But there's a ton of good players in the MD area
Please play someone good, then come back to this thread.

thx

who the **** are you to tell me that ****? gtfo dude. don't say **** like that with no sense of how good i may or may not be. i've never been to a tourney but i don't talk like i'm master over new kids to the forum. you don't know me, therefore don't assume... so it should be smart of you to just keep that **** to yourself. so comeback when you've played me and you can really tell me what my skill level is. kthx

 

[AlphaZealot]

If you can't find something in or around MD something is wrong. There is like, something every single week going on.

My last tournament (CCX in MD) I had to fight I think 5 Marths. I Lost to KM's Marth in winners (his Marth has been ****** my Peach for 2 years now, this was like the 5th time we've fought in a tourney), then Aho's Marth in losers. If the Marth player spaces you just right, that sorta spacing that makes you think you can pull a turnip but you really can't, then your screwed as Peach (okay, not screwed, but Marth has the advantage).

As for Azen's Marth, I agree, but you can apply Azen logic to every character, past policy is ussually to leave him out of character debates.

 

[The Blackstar]

who the **** are you to tell me that ****? gtfo dude. don't say **** like that with no sense of how good i may or may not be. i've never been to a tourney but i don't talk like i'm master over new kids to the forum. you don't know me, therefore don't assume... so it should be smart of you to just keep that **** to yourself. so comeback when you've played me and you can really tell me what my skill level is. kthx

First of all, calm the f*ck down.

Second of all, the fact that you've never been to a tourney and that no one here has ever heard of you, especially considering the fact that there are a lot of excellent, big name smashers in your area actually DOES speak volumes about your skill level.