TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[adumbrodeus]

Look again, REL. Ring-shaped holes. They would have to be fitted so they would be snug in order for it to stay on him.

Also in regards to the starting distance: what are the chances of them notices each other "on encounter" at 100 yards distant? Even if they were to clash with the environment, the chances of one detecting the presence of the other is very low. Plus, both combatants have no real-reason to dislike on another.

Look at the Pirate and the Knight battle from the Deadliest Warrior. Unlike the other MUs, the Knight and the Pirate had a reason to fight. It was because the Pirate is considered by the Knight to be criminal scum, and he saw the Pirate raiding a chest he found.

He had a reason to fight the Pirate because in his society, the Pirate is a criminal.

The situation applies similarly here, both are in the area of one another, but neither have a real reason to fight one another unless one pisses the other off for some indistinct reason. Falco isn't going to go somewhere one day and suddenly decide to kill a man for no real reason, and neither is Falcon.

However the rest are totally irrelevant to each other, they're just set out to fight.


Look at ninja vs spartan.


Honestly, they're all computer generated, and only takes weapons into account when training is also a factor.


It's on encounter.

 

[justaway12]

Except turtles have the configuration that they do because it works.


If you have a shell it's very VERY easy to hit lol-phail territory unless done properly.


Honestly, the more information you guys give for bowser, the more convinced I am that we need to double back on his earlier match-ups because his shell couldn't possibly work, ever.

Maybe that's why he is always slow and constantly hunched over?

 

[UncleSam]

turtles are on 4 legs, because the shell is very heavy.
Bowser is on two legs because he is just strong enough to have his legs hold the weight of his shell. that's why he's hunched over and slow. Bowser trying to be on two feet is hurting him.
Pivot problems are caused by sensitive organs and the fact that quick pivots with all that weight will throw him off balance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_force
reason why Ganondorfs sword is an OHKO against bowsers shell.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm loling at the people that are calling Ganon fat, and worse, Bowser cooler than Ganon.

Literally laughing out loud.

 

[UncleSam]

I'm loling at the people that are calling Ganon fat, and worse, Bowser cooler than Ganon.

Literally laughing out loud.

sephiroth was a better villain then ganondorf in some poll. completely wrong, amirite?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganondorf got second in that poll, and if I recall correctly, Bowser got around 20ish... to first.

Ganon 1 has only leather for armor.

Ganon 2 has only clothes for armor.

Ganon 3 has only armored plates, chainmail and leather.


Ganon 1 is completely open for arrows.

Ganon 2 is extremely open for arrows.

Ganon 3 is somewhat protected from arrows, but his legs and head is open.


Ganon 1 can't approach fast enough. Muscles only good for close combat.

Ganon 2 can't approach at all.

Ganon 3 can somewhat approach, but arrows to leg/head will hinder movement.

Bowser's too big for his size.

 

[justaway12]

turtles are on 4 legs, because the shell is very heavy.
Bowser is on two legs because he is just strong enough to have his legs hold the weight of his shell. that's why he's hunched over and slow. Bowser trying to be on two feet is hurting him.
Pivot problems are caused by sensitive organs and the fact that quick pivots with all that weight will throw him off balance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_force
reason why Ganondorfs sword is an OHKO against bowsers shell.

Or, he has the strenght to pull it up, or it's not as heavy.
https://www.msu.edu/~fredenb3/MX 2/Pictures/Koopa_Troopa.jpg
They don't seem to be in pain, it looks like there is a lot of room too.
you can see right through there arms.

@Ray: Bowser is cooler!
Come back when Ganon puts his princess in another castle!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

*Looks at Bowser & Peach*

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

sephiroth was a better villain then ganondorf in some poll. completely wrong, amirite?

IMO, yes. Yes it is. I never saw the appeal of Sephiroth. So he looks cool. Amazing. All he does anymore is stalk a unicorn man around and beat him up.

Also that poll was on GameFAQs and I voted for Ganondorf.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/spr05.html

Here's the poll.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Oh looks it a mean turtle. I'm very very scared.

The results in this thread are screwed.

 

[justaway12]

"Oh look mommy, it's a creepy old man =D"
"Don't look at the pervert, timmy!"

And that poll was horrible, Sephiroth is ugly.

But serously now

What does Ganon have?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Oh looks it a mean turtle. I'm very very scared.

The results in this thread are screwed.

Skewed, Kalm. Skewed. And yes they are.

I noticed you took a Paper Mario picture of Bowser instead of a more intimidating one.

 

[UncleSam]

"Oh look mommy, it's a creepy old man =D"
"Don't look at the pervert timmy!"

And that poll was horrible, Sephiroth is ugly.

But serously now

What does Ganon have?

seph is a mommys boy lol.
"okay mother lets go to the promised land"
he's also kind of psychotic, but nowhere as awesome as other villains.
anyway...

 

[REL38]

@Sam

I'm like a Ditto.
I keep changing to the better Pokemon side for the advantage when I could care less for the results

@Beren

First part already got answered.
They only fight like that in the show cuz it's obligated.
They also always encounter one another at a distance.

Falco's Sniper sucks to begin with.
He needs a Gattling Gun.

@Ray

Which still begs the question, how big is Bowser?


@Justaway

The koopa's shell wraps around the entire body.
Bowser's doesn't

@Shell

Part of him or it falls off.

 

[justaway12]

The koopa's shell wraps around the entire body.
Bowser's doesn't

Still the same shell
He is still a Koopa

Part of him or it falls off.

I thought for the duration of this thread we have been debating wheather it fall off or not.

His hammers and bombs are more important anyway

 

[Nova9000]

@Nova

I very much agree with you on many of your points.

It does seem that there are characters getting the edge based souly on "Fanboyism" or "Bias" as of recently. The random blurbs of rebuttles with little evidence as of a few days ago further supports this (very lolworthy, though).
For this very reason I try to back-up the losing side to even out the playing field. Keeping a neutral standpoint while trying to help the losing character (Yoshi, Olimar, Pika or Peach for example)

In regards to the Spacies, I see one of those concrete 50-50 MU's. Kinda like Ness vs Lucas or Ganon vs Falcon in Brawl. It can go either way.
I can already see 50-50 MU's in this thread:

Lucas vs Ness
Spacies
Ivy vs DK

For the first two, taking away bombs and guns judging off of close combat would determine the victor.
Ex. In close combat, would Falco or Wolf win?
In close combat, would Ness or Lucas win?

To determine the victor in these 50-50 MU's, take into account close combat to determine the outcome, as the same range weapons will always result in dead even.
This wouldn't apply to Ivy, however, because his "weapon" is part of his anatomy.

For this reason, limiting characters to set weapons is not a fair nerf. All characters should be shown to their fullest potential, not limited by the OP's decisions (in regards to weaponry/defense). If there is ever a 50-50 MU, taking into account close combat as the deciding factor would be the tie breaker.

btw
I don't believe Wario ever has a mallet.
If he does, then he'd make better use of it due to strength.

Well that's why I've been MIA the last few due to the lol posting. But if we really are going to give access to the best of the best, then we have more MUs to redo.
Wario didn't have a hammer iirc, but I may be wrong. I used it as an example.
And you didn't help poor Yoshi when he foght the green queer lol. But neither here nor there...

 

[UncleSam]

[COLOR="Yellow"His hammers and bombs are more important anyway [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Silver"]srsly.
If his shell is stuck to him, then he couldn't use them, and if it falls off, he can't carry them.
he can only hold one or the other, not alot.[/COLOR]

 

[justaway12]

He can still carry them in his shell if it falls of.

Even if his regular shell falls off, the fire shell has straps which could be attached

 

[UncleSam]

He can still carry them in his shell if it falls of.

Even if his regular shell falls off, the fire shell has straps which could be attached

Tell me how he's going to carry around 2 shells.
and carrying around that shell is like bringing on dead weight.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Especially with those small hands of his.

 

[REL38]

Does the shell really matter, anymore?
He still got hit with or without the shell.

How does Ganon counter the Tomahawks?

@Ray

His hands aren't small, dude.

 

[payasofobia]

What is happening now?


And why does it matter if his shell falls off or not. That means more agility, at the cost of defense, of course, but defense is going to do little if Ganon still has the armor piercing sword. This is where agility comes into play. Bowser has less chances of getting hit because of that.


And how does Ganon counter Hammers and Bombs?

This disscusion is getting away from the arguments that matter: Does Ganon have the means to get close enough to the enemy for the fat man strength to actually help?

Ganon does not suck physicaly. He has one of the best physiques of the entire MU. But, the thing that ***** and will **** him bad its his lack of projectiles.




Old timers will remember the prerequisites to **** in this thread: Range, muscles and mass. And from order of importance:

Range>>>Muscles=Mass>>>>everything else.


Ganon got them mass and muscles, but he lacks the most important thing: Ranged weapons.




Instead of debating against the simple and true fact that guns>>>swords, why don't you try to find a ranged weapon for Ganon?

Also:

Leave them on the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXZPR4AcpW4

Watch this video. Notice how the monk leaves his weapons lying on the ground.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Why don't we break up the outcomes of several different matches to calculate the ratio?



Ike vs Ganon:

Ike with sword vs Ganon with sword: tie. Both can kill each other in one hit, and both are very skilled with the sword.

Ike with tomahawks vs Ganon with sword: Ike wins. The axes will have enough force behind them to break Ganon's armour and they are pretty **** accurate. Even if Ganon survives, his armour will be broken and he will be hurt, making killing him much easier.

Ike with crossbow vs Ganon with sword: Ike wins. Ike will have much more range and attack speed than him, not to mention that crossbows have a high chance to heavily injure Ganon before he gets close to Ike.



Link vs Ganon:

Link with sword vs Ganon with sword: Ganon. Ganon will muscle past Link with little effort. No arguing here.

Link with Bow vs Ganon with sword: Link. Same as Ike, really.

Link with bombs vs Ganon with sword: Link. Albeit a small difference considering bombs are unreliable, not to mention that they lack range. Still, they can do some pretty serious injuries on Ganon when they hit, so Ganon will fall somewhat faster.



Bowser vs Ganon:

Bowser with flail vs Ganon with sword: Bowser. It was proved that flails are three times as strong and practical as swords. The only reason swords became mainstream was the fact that they were prettier and cooler.

http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/flail.htm

Bowser with hammers vs Ganon with sword (he doesn't have much...): Bowser. Same reason as Ike, except the hammers are thrown by a gigantic ninja turtle from hell.


Bowser with bombs vs Ganon with....you guessed it, sword: Bowser. Same reason as Link, except this time, getting hit by said bombs is going to mean sure ****.

 

[REL38]

Why don't we break up the outcomes of several different matches to calculate the ratio?



Ike vs Ganon:

Ike with sword vs Ganon with sword: tie. Both can kill each other in one hit, and both are very skilled with the sword.

Ike with tomahawks vs Ganon with sword: Ike wins. The axes will have enough force behind them to break Ganon's armour and they are pretty **** accurate. Even if Ganon survives, his armour will be broken and he will be hurt, making killing him much easier.

Ike with crossbow vs Ganon with sword: Ike wins. Ike will have much more range and attack speed than him, not to mention that crossbows have a high chance to heavily injure Ganon before he gets close to Ike.



Link vs Ganon:

Link with sword vs Ganon with sword: Ganon. Ganon will muscle past Link with little effort. No arguing here.

Link with Bow vs Ganon with sword: Link. Same as Ike, really.

Link with bombs vs Ganon with sword: Link. Albeit a small difference considering bombs are unreliable, not to mention that they lack range. Still, they can do some pretty serious injuries on Ganon when they hit, so Ganon will fall somewhat faster.



Bowser vs Ganon:

Bowser with flail vs Ganon with sword: Bowser. It was proved that flails are three times as strong and practical as swords. The only reason swords became mainstream was the fact that they were prettier and cooler.

http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/flail.htm

Bowser with hammers vs Ganon with sword (he doesn't have much...): Bowser. Same reason as Ike, except the hammers are thrown by a gigantic ninja turtle from hell.


Bowser with bombs vs Ganon with....you guessed it, sword: Bowser. Same reason as Link, except this time, getting hit by said bombs is going to mean sure ****.

Gee whiz, guys.
That was easy!

Now then, onto the next matter at hand . . . Round 5!

Go, go, go!

 

[payasofobia]

.

Thats what I mean. Ganon sucks because he lacks ranged weapons.

You can repeat all you want that he does not need to apporach, but the same can be said about the opposing char.

He just has to wait till Ganon gets close enough for the ranged weapon to work properly and then strike.

Sooner or later, they WILL get close to each other, and when they do, the ranged characters have a huge sircle of death around them while Ganon will have to get right beside said character if he wants to deal any damage.

 

[adumbrodeus]

False, ranged characters have a ratio.


Also, the concern with the shell is primarily that Bowser now needs to stand on 4 legs because his shell is far too unbalanced to stand up straight. Well, or he's on his back.


So no, won't be using any weapons, period.



Still waiting for Canon evidence that it's equipment...

 

[payasofobia]

I am sure we accept the RPGs and the main games as canon.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_z3qOPdy0bWw/StqO-57JSAI/AAAAAAAAEew/2FhSK0jC4xk/s800/IMG_3791.JPG

This was from the RPG.



And there's also this:

If you look closely, you will realize that Bowser's shell is more like a big bowl that he carries around, considering he lacks anything uniting the front with the back of the shell. And there's a clear opening there that tells us that he has nothing keeping him tied to it.

He should be like this. He has no shell.

 

[REL38]

This Hermit Crab has an opening as well.
So how does it even stay on his back if it's removable?
Wouldn't his back be very bulgy for it to even accomadate the shell to begin with?

Like so?
Would this not hinder some of Bowser's speed and agility without the shell?


@Adumb

Yet ranged weapons offer more kills than close combat weapons due to eliminating the necessity for approach and offering as a superior defense.

Also, it wouldn't be very difficult for Bowser to throw a Tomahawk on all fours.

Distribute most of the weight on the other three apendages while one of the arms throws (not very good, but somewhat)
Even laying on his belly would give better throwing strength and accuracy to the arms.
Granted, some power may be sacrificed in the throw, but it could still be potentially enough to harm Ganon.
Same with the Molotov Bomb.

 

[daicestar]

This is so......... POINTLESS

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I Payasofobia, you were the one to bring out that Ganon's TP build was the best of it's kind. I remember you comparing them with the built of a athlete and bodybuilder.

 

[justaway12]

Tell me how he's going to carry around 2 shells.
and carrying around that shell is like bringing on dead weight.

He doesn't need to carry 2 of them, if he needs a shell, he'll get the fire shell, if he doesn't, whatever, if he needs more weapons, he carries it in a shell.

Big Post

Didn't you just argue with someone about weather his shell is like a hermit crab or not xD

@Adum: SMRPG is canon

 

[Nova9000]

You all are making me sick...again...
Just decide on a **** winner so we can get into rd. 5
Sheesh...

 

[REL38]

@Justaway

Salem was suggesting that Bowser put the Fire Shell on top of his default shell.
That's like putting a football helmet on top of a football helmet.
He based this idea on some made up Hermit Crab doing this lol


I'm saying that if his shell is removable, his back may bulge out like a Hermit Crab's for it to stay on to begin with.
His normal shell has no strap or supa glue to keep it on.

 

[justaway12]

That's what I suggested earliear, though not as good I didn't have an example.

why are we arguing about his shell? The other things are more imporatant

EDIT: Oh I see, read more posts.

 

[JOE!]

actually, his neck collar isnt shown to like move...ever. That could be attached to the shell?


anywho, failcon loses all his matches? y/n?

 

[UncleSam]

He doesn't need to carry 2 of them, if he needs a shell, he'll get the fire shell, if he doesn't, whatever, if he needs more weapons, he carries it in a shell.

He can't carry it in his shell because that would either
1) not work because the shell is part of him.
2) not work because that would put more pressure on his spine when he moves
3) not work because he'd have to put down the shell, and he'd eventually move away from it.

*facepalm*
this is sad...
JOE- I dont think it's connected to his shell (which would be a epic fail idea if it were true) more like attached to his neck.
if it were to be attached to the shell Bowser would be holding up the entire shell with his neck which would kill him.

Bowser is lolfail in RL you don't understand this yet?

 

[justaway12]

What :l

We were just talking about his shell falls off =l
His fire shell needs straps, if he NEEDS it or if he doesn't he doesn't have to take it.

@JOE!: I think it's just, you know, to look cool.

 

[UncleSam]

In RL you can't just replace a turtles shell.

 

[justaway12]

Yet that just proves he isn't a turtle.

He was inspired of a turtle, it doesn't mean he is one, especially considering he breaths fire and all that.