TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Beren Zaiga]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8896089&postcount=15091

^ I find it funny that it wasn't at least referenced.

@ REL's earlier WoT:

if Bowser's shell isn't removeable, how does he change his shell form his normal shell to the Fire Shell? Its not like paint can just be sprayed on it and wah-lah it has fire elemental abilities. It would mean that he either is able to -and has to- take it off to switch shells, or it is some kind of armored template put on and shaped over the shell with holes for the spikes, then there would have to be a way for the template to stay on the shell.

@ REL's recent post:

Its plausible if there is some natural padding that would deflect the force underneath, but look at recent incarnation's of Bowser's shell, such as Brawl and SMG.

(^ Best image I could find of his back in Galaxy)

Bowser's shell does not appear to be smooth, it in fact appears to be angular in shape on his back. That would mean the shell would deflect the force due to the angles generated by the spikes standing on his shell, which seems to be the case. A samurai helmet (tested in TDW) can deflect sword blows very well due to the angles on the helmet, the similar concept can apply to the shell due to the angular nature of the octagon-like shapes that make up the curve of the shell.

 

[JOE!]

@angles:

i said this in the first discussion of this MU: the sword would hit an angle (or just because of the dome shape) it would slide and deflect force.

bowser is also most likley moving

 

[Sieguest]

*reads some key posts*
What the hell? I give up...
*leaves*

 

[REL38]

@Beren

The spray paint dealy is obviously out.

The template sounds more probable.

Looking more so at it, it's just like a Troopa shell designed for Bowser.


In regards to padding, I was referring to the Fire Shell.
The Troopa styled shells must obviously have some form of padding to resist blows.
Same would apply to the Fire Shell.

*wonders how long it takes to wait for Round 5*

 

[★Chaos★]

@Bere



*wonders how long it takes to wait for Round 5*

i know it has been awile at round 4.5.seriously

 

[UncleSam]

*reads some key posts*
What the hell? I give up...
*leaves*

so the fanboys have striked again
seems a null point to continue with round five, since we'll only be hoarding ppl with weapons.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

@Beren

The spray paint dealy is obviously out.

The template sounds more probable.

Looking more so at it, it's just like a Troopa shell designed for Bowser.


In regards to padding, I was referring to the Fire Shell.
The Troopa styled shells must obviously have some form of padding to resist blows.
Same would apply to the Fire Shell.

*wonders how long it takes to wait for Round 5*

Okay, I wasn't against the idea of natural padding, I was agreeing with you.

Also, people. Look at Bowser's anatomy. The arms and legs have plenty of room for an abundance of toned muscle. This means him being bipedal is plausible. He is around 9.3 feet as we have all agreed by now. Lets look at the force generated by a straight arm punch from Bowser as an example, by comparing him to the height of the average adult male, as I did with Olimar. Lets start with what percentage bigger than the average adult male he is.

This is purely because of his humanoid body structure in terms of how he stands, moves, and his articulation, also because is bipedal.

5.8/9.3 =0.623656 or 62%. That is a large difference. Now lets determine his arm length, which is 47% the leg of the body.

9.3/0.47 = 4.371 feet. That is extremely long. In comparison to 2.8 feet of the average adult human male. That is nearly a full human arm longer.

Now lets calculate the length of his hand, which is around 29% the length of the arm. 4.371 * 0.29 = 1.26759 feet or 1.3 feet. That is a little over the length of the average human foot. Now lets compare the two. The average male hand of a human is around 8 inches in length.

0.8 / 1.3 = 61% larger than the average human adult male hand. The average human hand weights around 250 to 500 grams. Lets take both, calculate, then compare.

250/ 0.61= 409.836066 g
500/ 0.61= 819.672131 g < Bowser's hands weigh anywhere between the two. Divide by 454 and you have their weight in pounds. Which when calculated is 0.9 to 1.8 lbs (I checked this using the conversion function on my computer's calculator. It is correct).

Our hands weight much less in comparison to his obviously.

I don't think I can correctly calculate the Force in newtons Bowser could employ. Here is something I found on Physics of Power.

Take a look.

Interesting stuff. Bowser doesn't know Tae Kwon Do, but the physics still apply.

I am out of steam now.

 

[UncleSam]

He has a laser and no other items, which was disproven sucky by US, IIRC.

you're welcome?

 

[justaway12]

I meant proven to be sucky, it's a good thing =P

 

[Sieguest]

you're welcome?

Just let it die Sam
let it die...

EDIT: MOTHER****
...

 

[Salem]

Just let it die Sam
let it die...

Yes, if we let it die we win.

Then we can make our own TDB. >_>

 

[UncleSam]

Just let it die Sam
let it die...

EDIT: MOTHER****
...

Yes, if we let it die we win.

Then we can make our own TDB. >_>

So I was right...
this thread does die without me. this is too funny.

 

[Emperor Time]

Herp.

This is a strange turn of events.

 

[tocador]

When im done with social life and studies ima bumb this baby up!

 

[REL38]

Bing Bang Boom Surprise


Ganon beats Boozer, even with Shelly. Can't light bombs or throw crap right.
Ganonderp loses rest.

Falcon loses all if his.

Agreed?
Agreed.

*weary of the rote nature of these tedious re-do's*

 

[UncleSam]

remember; this thread basically dies w/o me.
should I make it active again?

 

[Nova9000]

I don't care if you give the thread a Senzu bean; just move on to Rd. 5.

 

[JOE!]

Bing Bang Boom Surprise


Ganon beats Boozer, even with Shelly. Can't light bombs or throw crap right.
Ganonderp loses rest.

Falcon loses all if his.

Agreed?
Agreed.

*weary of the rote nature of these tedious re-do's*

could he not use the hammers for melee combat?


(anywho, been busy...fisrt time on here today)

 

[Salem]

could he not use the hammers for melee combat?


(anywho, been busy...fisrt time on here today)

Bowser can't pick up things right? O_O

WTF? Screwed. >_>

 

[JOE!]

huh, where the hell did you see that in my post, Salem?

he has thumbs and fingers

 

[Salem]

huh, where the hell did you see that in my post, Salem?

he has thumbs and fingers

I mean what REL was saying, it made me go lol.

>_>

It sounded WTF, and was this proven that he can't throw things right?

 

[REL38]

1. Bowser's shell forces him on all fours.
It's not that he can't support the weight on 2 legs, but rather he can't balance the weight on two legs.
It'll put a lot of strain on his spine.

2. He can't throw right on all fours.
Get on all fours. Try it.
Now try throwing a ball or something.
You'll throw it much more powerfully and farther on two legs.
On four, both dramatically decrease.
This renders both bombs and tomahawks less useful as a whole.

3. Shelly protects from Zweinhander.
But his head is very much exposed. Being on all fours will not make him as fast than if he were on two legs. The extra padding the Fire Shell has will protect from a Zweinhander ownage throw, but he's still open to normal sword slashes.

4. lolololololol


7. If Bowser lays on his belly, he can probably throw the hammers/bombs a lot better.
Tomahawk throws may still be lethal and bombs may still have good range.
Just far enough to maybe still give him the win . . .

 

[UncleSam]

1. Bowser's shell forces him on all fours.
It's not that he can't support the weight on 2 legs, but rather he can't balance the weight on two legs.
It'll put a lot of strain on his spine.

OMFG
I said that like 30 pages ago.
more proof that nobody listens to me anymore.

2. He can't throw right on all fours.
Get on all fours. Try it.
Now try throwing a ball or something.
You'll throw it much more powerfully and farther on two legs.
On four, both dramatically decrease.
This renders both bombs and tomahawks less useful as a whole.

obviously.

3. Shelly protects from Zweinhander.
But his head is very much exposed. Being on all fours will not make him as fast than if he were on two legs. The extra padding the Fire Shell has will protect from a Zweinhander ownage throw, but he's still open to normal sword slashes.

read up sawn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_force

7. If Bowser lays on his belly, he can probably throw the hammers/bombs a lot better.
Tomahawk throws may still be lethal and bombs may still have good range.
Just far enough to maybe still give him the win . . .

actually that's more like throwing while on all fours.
I mean try it, if you are going to be on your belly, your arms are going to be out infront of your head which is where the shoulder stops rotation, it'd be all in the elbow, which isn't much.

 

[REL38]

1. Teh bias has struck again.
"Ima ignore wat u say, so I win!"

2. Obvious fact is obvious

3. I'm a little meh on that.
The Zweinhander was meant to screw over armor. This kills default shell Bowser.
But Fire Shell can very well have padding inside of it to soften blows.
I'll buy the force still reaching through the armor shell to default shell, but not enough to OHKO like before. More like disorient him.
Zweinhander killed armor dudes with enough force to kill, sure.
But enough force to translate through the Fire Shell, but as well as his default shell which can still protect against blows?
The Zweinhander is now trying to OHKO through armor with padding and Bowser's normal shell.
I see it ****** armor, but two sets of it?
I find that hard to believe. Padding would significantly lessen the force translated to the default shell which would now only be defending a smaller blow.

4. Bowser can shift his weight to allow an arm to throw with the shoulder.
It's not difficult to do.
It wouldn't have much effect on shell balance either.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Zweihander!

 

[UncleSam]

1. Teh bias has struck again.
"Ima ignore wat u say, so I win!"

I don't get it.
EDIT: okay I do now lol

3. I'm a little meh on that.
The Zweinhander was meant to screw over armor. This kills default shell Bowser.
But Fire Shell can very well have padding inside of it to soften blows.
I'll buy the force still reaching through the armor shell to default shell, but not enough to OHKO like before. More like disorient him.
Zweinhander killed armor dudes with enough force to kill, sure.
But enough force to translate through the Fire Shell, but as well as his default shell which can still protect against blows?
The Zweinhander is now trying to OHKO through armor with padding and Bowser's normal shell.
I see it ****** armor, but two sets of it?
I find that hard to believe. Padding would significantly lessen the force translated to the default shell which would now only be defending a smaller blow.

Ok, so if you knew the entire time what it could actually do, then why didn't you say anything about it?
We're also saying that Bowser is going to start off with this "fire shell"
in the mario games don't you have to buy it and equip it or something? Wouldn't he start off with the default?
IDK

 

[REL38]

I don't like getting too involved when I don't quite care

In regards to starting off with Shelly, idunno.
All in all, it's armor and thusly should start off with it.
We don't exactly expect Ganon or Link to equip their armor.
Even if it's an upgrade, he should start off with it as it's armor.

So now we have Bowser on all fours with armor on while weilding mid-range weapons capable of hurting Ganon (more so the bomb now).
Ganon still has his throw sword that can no longer kill via shell.

Who wins?
Personally, I say bombs.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

I think you guys are going a bit too realistic with his shell keeping him on the ground... We might as well keep Ness and Lucas from walking, too.

 

[JOE!]

how does the thrown sword still pose a threat?

if it doesnt work it is auto-lose for ganon o_O

 

[UncleSam]

I think you guys are going a bit too realistic with his shell keeping him on the ground... We might as well keep Ness and Lucas from walking, too.

umm, this thread is supposed to be about reality.
jeez.
and there are multiple conflicting problems.
-Bowser's shell is on his back, there aren't places for bowser to hold items.
that limits his projectiles significantly.
-he has to throw while laying on the ground which can also cause problems for bowser.
-once bowser is on his back he's done for.
-without a plastron, his sensitive organs are a target
- while laying on his chest or walking on all fours his head is an easy target.


also why would his shell be padded? wtf?

 

[xepherthree]

also why would his shell be padded? wtf?

Did you read the text on the picture that Just posted?
It says it is the "ultimate in fire protection" or something to that effect.

 

[REL38]

Did you read the text on the picture that Just posted?
It says it is the "ultimate in fire protection" or something to that effect.

Correct.

Thusly, the Fire Shell would need to be made of a fire retardant alloy.
In relation, a form of padding would be required to keep any transfered heat from reaching the wearers body, in this case, being Bowser.

~Nyaa!

 

[Nova9000]

umm, this thread is supposed to be about reality.
jeez.

*remembers the JOE! Yu-Gi-Oh card*

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8636224@N03/3062302767/

*Revenge of Norris offspring*


Anyway, I can see layers for Bowser's skin (which is all skin is anyway), but padding seems rather...unrealistic.

And if Bowser is on all 4s then agility suffers in which Ganon can capitolize upon.
Remember, since Bowser has his shell he has to turn his entire body around to see (remember he's not a turtle? Turtles have long necks to get by for the most part ), so he has to turn his entire body around to see, giving him a bigger blind spot than my main. Ganon can harass him as much as he wants. In other words, try this:

-Get on all 4s.
-Don't move your neck.
-Place a backpack on you with about 20lbs in it.
-Try to pick up a baseball and throw it while maintaining balance.

This is what Bowser has to deal with, only in a more extreme sense. Now add the fact that Ganon can just run around him in circles. Bowser can't do squat because he has to turn his body to attack. He can't thow a tomahawk or light a bomb because he has to aim. That requires his entire body to turn. Since he can't stand on his hind legs alone, he has no effective way to attack Ganon. Think Galleom v. Duon. Galleom had way better armor, but couldn't attack because he had to support himself entirely. Between that and Duon's railgun (OHKO), Galleom lost. Bowser is the same way in a sense. He has his shell and thick skin but if you have to move to win, you're screwed. Ganon can rupture his organs, causing him to die from the inside; maybe a 3 hit KO. Ganon should win this MU, but if he doesn't I don't care. Move on to Rd. 5.

 

[REL38]

Once again, padding is only present underneath the Fire Shell which is acting as a form of armor.


The Fire Shell actually wraps around the entire body like it does for the Troopa's shell. This protects Bowser from sword slashes, but the original plan of throw sword will hurt his sides.

Throwing bombs isn't too difficult. Light and toss.
Bowser is bipedal, but his arms and legs are just about the same length. The form he crawls in Brawl shows him with feet on ground and forearms on grounds. Still conventional, but slow.
He can still throw bombs by predicting where Ganon will go. Ganon isn't a running back with that build.
It wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Nova9000]

Once again, padding is only present underneath the Fire Shell which is acting as a form of armor.


The Fire Shell actually wraps around the entire body like it does for the Troopa's shell. This protects Bowser from sword slashes, but the original plan of throw sword will hurt his sides.

Throwing bombs isn't too difficult. Light and toss.
Bowser is bipedal, but his arms and legs are just about the same length. The form he crawls in Brawl shows him with feet on ground and forearms on grounds. Still conventional, but slow.
He can still throw bombs by predicting where Ganon will go. Ganon isn't a running back with that build.
It wouldn't be difficult.

You don't have to be a runningback to outmanuever a Koopa. He still has the same problems with manueverability. And if you have to support yourself, then how can you throw bombs? The only way I see possible is if Bowser lays flat on his stomach. This would really render him helpless when it comes to turning around to see Ganon.

And now we have Fire Shell armor, when Ganon has no way to use flames. So...ummm...why does he have this again? Give Link Zora Armor then when he fights Ganon; oh wait it serves no purpose at all, just like Bowser with a flame retartant shell. And Ganon could just cut his tail off and Twilight sodomony FTW; how does Bowser stop that? The more I try to help, the worse the rebuttals seem to get...
US was right...

 

[Sieguest]

Flames and Accusations

I think you guys are going a bit too realistic with his shell keeping him on the ground... We might as well keep Ness and Lucas from walking, too.

WTF? no.......

umm, this thread is supposed to be about reality.
jeez.
and there are multiple conflicting problems.
-Bowser's shell is on his back, there aren't places for bowser to hold items.
that limits his projectiles significantly.
-he has to throw while laying on the ground which can also cause problems for bowser.
-once bowser is on his back he's done for.
-without a plastron, his sensitive organs are a target
- while laying on his chest or walking on all fours his head is an easy target.


also why would his shell be padded? wtf?

THANK YOU!

Once again, padding is only present underneath the Fire Shell which is acting as a form of armor.


The Fire Shell actually wraps around the entire body like it does for the Troopa's shell. This protects Bowser from sword slashes, but the original plan of throw sword will hurt his sides.

Throwing bombs isn't too difficult. Light and toss.
Bowser is bipedal, but his arms and legs are just about the same length. The form he crawls in Brawl shows him with feet on ground and forearms on grounds. Still conventional, but slow.
He can still throw bombs by predicting where Ganon will go. Ganon isn't a running back with that build.
It wouldn't be difficult.

....
1. I still don't see how you proved bowser could get out of one shell in the first place....because
A- this was shown in ONE game
B- that ONE game is a completely unrelated genre from the flagship titles, might as well have taken it from a sports game....and if that's the case so many more redoes could be done then.....
C- would bowser even have time to switch shells? If so, how? his arms aren't nearly long enough to reach his back and pull off a shell and then stick another on
D- even with padding, bowser's body construction along with the concussive force transferred from a sword blow from ganon to the back is going to disrupt something.
2. The bombs- where did you pull this from? Super Paper Mario? SMRPG? cuz if you did I'm about to hurt you....
3. If ganon is slow as you say, then Bowser is nigh near immobile...

@Ganon Side-
1. Ganon isn't a super speed demon, sure he has mobility, but he's not speedy
2. Sword chucking= insta loss- unless ganon gets lucky and nails bowser in the head with enough force to OHKO him then it's GG if the sword is thrown
3. You guys haven't BS'd as much as the bowser side from what I've read

Good day
*leaves*

 

[JOE!]

why on earth are we still arguing this?

1) is it not possible for bowser to rear up to throw something, or to maybe even use one of his hammers (which compared to ganon would be massive) in melee range using his allready great range just via his arms to go against a Zwel approach?

2) why are you guys insisting Ganon will throw his sword? out of 1000 times that might work once...and the other 999 times it means he just killed himself.

3) His shell shouldnt be an issue now as much as his offense and the fact he doesnt have the fail anatomy of a turtle hindering him where it'd count (turning, etc)

4) Failcon = -4 char?

 

[REL38]

@Nova

Ho ho!
You've caught on dear boy!

Fire Shell was something I was hesitant to even use as it's a defensive upgrade.
If I used Shelly, then other characters are bound to start using similar upgrades.
Most of which are rather useless and serve as last resort options

Also, Bowser wouldn't have any trouble balancing.
He was born with the shell and developed proper usage through time.
Get on all fours (using your forearms upfront, not hands), shift weight to allow one arm free usage.
Extremely easy.
Bowser can toss or backhand throw bombs.
Turning wouldn't be hard as Bowser has the muscle to make this easy.


@Marthage

You call yourself a critic?
Read posts dude.
Bowser can't remove shells.

Bombs are from SMRPG.
Don't give me this, "Uncanon by being 2nd party developed!"
Metroid Other M would prove uncanon.
Metroid Prime Series as well. nvm with Prime :/
Neither are souly developed by Nintendo.

Get outta here with that.

 

[Sieguest]

@Marthage

You call yourself a critic?
Read posts dude.
Bowser can't remove shells.

Then how in the hell does he put on a flame shell dumb*** >___>

and don't you dare say "he starts off with it!"
1. How come sonic doesn't start with a power ring? (lawl)
2. How come Link doesn't start with that broken armor you can get in TP?
3. How come Peach doesn't start with every single bludgeoning object in existence?
4. How come ICs don't start with a rope? (Oh wait, they don't show rope in Ice Climber, it's just implied in the belay maneuver for 2p mode lol)
5. How come Olimar doesn't have onions to spawn more pikmin?
6. How come Falco doesn't start out with a demon launcher?
7. How come Fox doesn't start out with a jet pack?
8. How come Snake didn't start out with a SOCOM?
9. How come Mario didn't start out as Super Mario or Cape Mario?
10. How come Luigi didn't start out as...nvm
11. How come Yoshi didn't start out as another color than green?
12. Wario didn't start out as Wario Man?
13. How come G&W didn't start out as the Octopus?

 

[REL38]

Then how in the hell does he put on a flame shell dumb*** >___>

It's like a Koopa Troopa shell.
A Troopa shell needs to open for Troopas to even wear. Same deal with Bowser.
He's bipedal. Hoist the shell over his head and nestle it on. It would need to be custom made for this to even happen though.
Regardless, this serves a rather null point for being an "upgrade"

lol trollin' is kinda funny to do