TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

but when it moves to real life it just shows he's fail.
he can't breathe fire, it'd kill him. he can't remove his shell. and walking on two legs is severely hurting him as it is.
we've always made the character what it represented in RL.

I don't want to hear that BS

 

[justaway12]

He can breath fire nonetheless =/
It just shows it's something turtles can't do despite him dying or not, he can still do it.

What else does he have than a shell that isn't even connected like a normal turtle shell?

He might have ~*some*~ similarities to a turtle but that doesn't show that he is a turtle.

 

[payasofobia]

Ask yourself this:

Can turtles breathe fire? Can turtles remove their shells?

Bah, whatever, stop arguing about shells. Bowser's shell will fall off.

 

[payasofobia]

http://www.mariowiki.com/Goodie_Bag

Mario RPG. Bowser has a bag. Could be used to carry hammers around. And bombs...in a separate bag of course.

 

[UncleSam]

he'll kill himself by breathing fire because turtles can't breathe fire.
his shell falls off because of lol-phail design. Nintendo doesn't think about reality when designing characters.
so that must mean Lucario isn't a jackal and can move and act perfectly fine.
and Pikachu would work completely fine under RL standards.
and Kirby, jiggz, and MK must be able to exist and act like any other character.
and Yoshi wouldn't be lol-phail, and he'd be able to swallow anything whole despite the circumstances, not get hurt by whatever he ate, and digest it in a fraction of a second.
and Sonic would be able to run at the speed of sound ignoring friction.
and DDD wouldn't be fail in general.

your denying just about everything else this thread has gone through by saying bowser isn't a turtle.
paya it only holds coins.

 

[payasofobia]

he'll kill himself by breathing fire because turtles can't breathe fire.
his shell falls off because of lol-phail design. Nintendo doesn't think about reality when designing characters.
so that must mean Lucario isn't a jackal and can move and act perfectly fine.
and Pikachu would work completely fine under RL standards.
and Kirby, jiggz, and MK must be able to exist and act like any other character.
and Yoshi wouldn't be lol-phail, and he'd be able to swallow anything whole despite the circumstances, not get hurt by whatever he ate, and digest it in a fraction of a second.
and Sonic would be able to run at the speed of sound ignoring friction.
and DDD wouldn't be fail in general.

your denying just about everything else this thread has gone through by saying bowser isn't a turtle.
paya it only holds coins.

IRL, bags can hold anything. Empty the the bag and stuff hammers in it.

He'll kill himself because he lacks a false pallate, not because he is a turtle.

I agree with the shell falling off so....that means you are going pro-Bowser has no shell?

I agree.

 

[UncleSam]

IRL, bags can hold anything. Empty the the bag and stuff hammers in it.

He'll kill himself because he lacks a false pallate, not because he is a turtle.

I agree with the shell falling off so....that means you are going pro-Bowser has no shell?

I agree.

No I agree that he is a turtle and all these things are because nintendo doesn;t think about RL when making these characters. when put into RL they become lol-phail.
don't jump to assumptions.
Turtles don't have false palates either, your point is?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

he'll kill himself by breathing fire because turtles can't breathe fire.
his shell falls off because of lol-phail design. Nintendo doesn't think about reality when designing characters.
so that must mean Lucario isn't a jackal and can move and act perfectly fine.
and Pikachu would work completely fine under RL standards.
and Kirby, jiggz, and MK must be able to exist and act like any other character.
and Yoshi wouldn't be lol-phail, and he'd be able to swallow anything whole despite the circumstances, not get hurt by whatever he ate, and digest it in a fraction of a second.
and Sonic would be able to run at the speed of sound ignoring friction.
and DDD wouldn't be fail in general.

your denying just about everything else this thread has gone through by saying bowser isn't a turtle.
paya it only holds coins.

Just throwing something out of the way.

If I remember correctly: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Humanshape_(egg_group)

Lucario has a human shape so he can move like a human. Being a jackal has nothing to do with it.



And there is a difference with your statement. Most of those characters suck because it is not realistic to give them all those abilities they have, not because they are of a certain species or some stuff.


It is entirely realistic and is logicaly likely for Bowser to not be a turtle. He looks nothing like a turtle, has no turtle abilities and breathes fire, even if he kills him. Hell, he doesn't even have a real shell.

There is nothing unrealistic about him.

 

[payasofobia]

No I agree that he is a turtle and all these things are because nintendo doesn;t think about RL when making these characters. when put into RL they become lol-phail.
don't jump to assumptions.
Turtles don't have false palates either, your point is?

You are mistaking one thing with the other.

Characters like those become lol-phail because their abilities are unrealistic and can't be explained using IRL, not because they are rats and rats have no electricity IRL.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think what we're forgetting is that we've never seen him without a shell.


The reoccurring theme of the character is that he HAS a shell.


If he were able to be removed, it would be represented SOMEWHERE. Super mario rpg adds equipment to the base character, that is attachments to the existing character.

It's FAR from unprecedented for intelligent species to add additional defenses onto their natural defenses in both fiction and real life. That includes layers of it.


Skin is a natural defense, we add all types of defenses from basic clothes to full suits of platemail. Bowser is an intelligent species, why wouldn't he follow suit?


Bowser is an being with a shell that can add additional armor and has done so. Because of the sheer size and therefore weight, his locomotion is one 4 legs. The limited range of motion because of the shell and the ackward angle.


Therefore, bowser is regulated to biting and swipes.


Add pretty much all his match-ups to the reconsider list.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I think what we're forgetting is that we've never seen him without a shell.


The reoccurring theme of the character is that he HAS a shell.


If he were able to be removed, it would be represented SOMEWHERE. Super mario rpg adds equipment to the base character, that is attachments to the existing character.

It's FAR from unprecedented for intelligent species to add additional defenses onto their natural defenses in both fiction and real life. That includes layers of it.


Skin is a natural defense, we add all types of defenses from basic clothes to full suits of platemail. Bowser is an intelligent species, why wouldn't he follow suit?


Bowser is an being with a shell that can add additional armor and has done so. Because of the sheer size and therefore weight, his locomotion is one 4 legs. The limited range of motion because of the shell and the ackward angle.


Therefore, bowser is regulated to biting and swipes.


Add pretty much all his match-ups to the reconsider list.

No it does not have to be represented, because it already has.

The Koopa Troopas are the biggest examples of this. Bowser has been theorized to be an evolved Koopa Troopa, which could account for his title of "Great Demon King Koopa" in Japan. If it rings true that he is of Koopa Troopa decent, then shell removal being possible can be a given, because he would be an evolved Koopa Troopa.

The reason for this is that the removal of their shells makes them sacrifice defensive ability for speed, possibly giving them the needed escape velocity to fight another day. Then if need be, find (or in Bower's case, make) another shell. then come back to fight. Not that Bowser would be running away since its is not possible in this thread.

If he is capable of removing his shell like his Koopa brethren, then the only reason he has never taken his shell off is because he probably.

A.) Values it, because it makes him look tough and bigger.

B.) Has never thought to take it off, or never has been posed the question whether or not he can take it off.

C.)He doesn't know he can remove it.

Super Mario RPG however rules out B and C, which leaves the possibility that he values his shell a great deal and doesn't want to leave it. It makes him feel comfortable and safe. Its like a safety blanket to him, he would feel naked without it.

 

[Salem]

lol

People are Re-talking about what I was talking about.

I'm way ahead of you guys. >_>

Also I have a model of TP Ganon and he's not fat, it is indeed the armor making him look fat.
If anybody wants a picture of it i'd be glad to get it.

Edit:

Armor changing is not canon. lol

 

[Beren Zaiga]

lol

People are Re-talking about what I was talking about.

I'm way ahead of you guys. >_>

Also I have a model of TP Ganon and he's not fat, it is indeed the armor making him look fat.
If anybody wants a picture of it i'd be glad to get it.

Edit:

Armor changing is not canon. lol

Is if it involves physically removing and changing his shell.

 

[Nova9000]

Ok I'm sick of all these facepalms and ridiclous stuff you all are saying.

http://www.bowsershrine.com/bowserevolution.php

Take a look and see out of each illustration which shells really look like they would be backpacks.

Bowser, known in full as Bowser Koopa, is the King of the Koopas and the supreme leader and commander of the Koopa Troop army. The Koopas are a turtle-like species from the Mario universe, a video game series from Nintendo. Bowser is usually referred to as King Bowser or King Koopa and known in Japan as just Koopa (). Bowser, the strongest and most powerful Koopa, exists as the primary nemesis of the Mario Brothers, and is frequently the final boss in many Mario games. Bowser's appearance can best be described as a large bipedal creature with a mix of tortoise, dragon and dinosaur elements. He has orange scales all over his body with a light-yellow stomach. Bowser has a large turtle shell on his back fit with thirteen sharp spikes. His tail is also orange in colour, with two sharp spikes on the end. Bowser has two sharp horns on top of his head along with a fiery red mane. He also wears black spiked leather/metal cuffs around his biceps, wrists, and neck. Bowser is most likely based on a Kappa, a legendary Japanese water creature.

Pay attention to the bolded parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_(folklore)
This is what your King of Koopas is most like, if you want to become very technical.
And guess what? They have shells! How can Bowser be any different from the creatures his design was based off of?

Next do you all know what a shell really is? Humans have endoskeletons. That means our bodies are supported by the bines, tissues, and muscles inside of us. A shell is a exoskeleton, which is the exact opposite. Bowser can't support himself without his shell. Also note that shells are made of bone, so again I ask how can this be taken off?

If you want to claim he wears it as a backpack, then consider this.
Ness also has a ackpack with his bat, bombs, and yo-yo. If shedding a backpack makes you fast, then he can beat Pit. Inprobable right? So is Bowser doing the same thing. It's the equivalent of going to a gunfight and shedding off a bullet-proof vest so you can "be faster", when the little bit of speed won't equate to putting yourself to an even greater harm.
In other words, why take off armor for speed when speed won't allow you to win?

Adum is right. We have never seen Bowser with his shell off and it's for a reason. That shell is a part of him. Check back to baby Bowser; he had a shell too. Oh and the hermit crab theory won't work because they can force their abdomen into a shell. Bowser doesn't have that luxury. And what happens when you step on Koopa shell in the game? They get back in their shell, not into anyone elses.

Bowser doesn't need a shell to feel cool and mighty. The armbands saitsfy that all too well. He needs that shell for protection. For example, take Sonic. Wonder why his hair is like that (and the reason he fails as walking with two legs)? He's a hedgehog.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Igel01.jpg
See all those quills? They protect the hedgehog from predators because the hedgehog doesn't have the adequate tools to fight back or run from them. So you can say Sonic's hair looks cool but it has a greater purpose than just a fashion statement. Bowser is the same. Tha shell protects him from harm, especially because he is a bipedal creature. All that speed you claim he has he would use. But most reptiles dont rely on speed to avoid predators (dare anyone to say Bowser isn't a reptile). And notice how spikes are only on the outside of the shell. If it was a fashion thing, then why wouldn't they be all over him? Those spikes protect him from the back, that's why.

Why wouldn't he have a black shell or a more evil looking shell? Why no scary face or his name on the shell? What Just has is just cosmetics at best. That photo you all keep posting proves nothing. I could say
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Yoshi.png

should be

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&sigr=11t68vju3&sigi=1232adgrd&sigb=12sgm4j5e

[my job prohibits me from clicking any further so I posted the next best thing]

because it rids him of his mobility problem. But that makes no sense because he isn't seen like that in most of his appearances and thus is canon. The same thing with Bowser with no shell because he isn't seen without it. An an alt. color in a book cannot justify Bowser being able to remove a shell at his liking. Can't buy it people...

 

[justaway12]

Bowser isn't a Kappa, their names are similar, but Koopa is based off of a Korean dish, Bowser was also going to get called some other things as well.

About Kappas,

Kappa are also said to be afraid of fire

Bowser isn't afraid of fire, he has fought around fire before.

The Japanese word for gukbap is クッパ kuppa. Video game designer Shigeru Miyamoto lent the word to the name of the character Bowser Koopa (大魔王クッパ Daimaō Kuppa in Japanese) in the Mario series of video games. Alternative names ユッケ Yukke (yukhoe) and ビビンバ Bibinba (bibimbap) were also considered, as Miyamoto had intended to name him after a dish in Korean cuisine.[12]

He isn't a Kappa.


WHat do you mean that photo meant nothing :l
They buy armour, then you equip it to a character for a special stat or something.
The changes has been shown in battle

What is Peach going to do with a dress, or Mario with Overalls, or Geno with a cape =/
I doubt they paint it, especially when Peach magically lose her collar in the sailor dress and magically regains it in the fire dress.
Attachments are most likely acessories.

Koopas don't get in to their own shell all the time, as shown in SMW.

Along with that, Kuppa thing.

Lot's of them are named after food.

Kuribo (goomba)

Kinipo (Toad)

Etc.

 

[Nova9000]

Bowser isn't a Kappa, their names are similar, but Koopa is based off of a Korean dish, Bowser was also going to get called some other things as well.

About Kappas,


Bowser isn't afraid of fire, he has fought around fire before.




He isn't a Kappa.


WHat do you mean that photo meant nothing :l
They buy armour, then you equip it to a character for a special stat or something.
The changes has been shown in battle

What is Peach going to do with a dress, or Mario with Overalls, or Geno with a cape =/
I doubt they paint it, especially when Peach magically lose her collar in the sailor dress and magically regains it in the fire dress.
Attachments are most likely acessories.

Koopas don't get in to their own shell all the time, as shown in SMW.

Along with that, Kuppa thing.

Lot's of them are named after food.

Kuribo (goomba)

Kinipo (Toad)

Etc.

Is that all you have to disprove? Look I got flamed by every Bowser backpacker for calling him a turtle, even though his design had influence from turtles. So I fould something that is a little better to explain and compare Bowser and now you want to compare names.
*facepalm*
I played SMW. What happens when a Koopa has no shell? He's dead. Same for Bowser. What happens when something is thrown at Koopas? They're dead. Same for Bowser. The smallest things kill Koopas when they lack a shell, and since Bowser is one and "he has no RL comparison", when wtf do you think will happen if he has no shell? If hit with enough force, he's dead. Oh and last time I checked, Koopas only leave their shells when someone steps on them; in other words they are forced out. Bowser would be the same way kid.

 

[justaway12]

No they don't, you've met shell-less turtle before if you have played SMW and IIRC, it was the first enemy, not forgetting that place in Super Mario 64

I was assuming you thought he was a Kappa because of his name, Kappas are SEA turtles, afraid of fire.

Did you see that little wiki link I posted =l

Even the Bowser shrine says stuff like most likely or can be at best

They aren't sure.

 

[Nova9000]

No they don't, you've met shell-less turtle before if you have played SMW and IIRC, it was the first enemy, not forgetting that place in Super Mario 64

I was assuming you thought he was a Kappa because of his name, Kappas are SEA turtles, afraid of fire.

Did you see that little wiki link I posted =l

Even the Bowser shrine says stuff like most likely or can be at best

They aren't sure.

I'll give you that. But you still haven't proven that they can go in and out of their shells as they please.

Give me a little more credit than that. :******:

No I didn't...I think...idk since everything has been reposted like 4 times.

When video games don't tell you, use common sense...
Nintendo won't tell you everything but the Bowser Shrine does have more pics than just the two I've seen repeated here.
And you aren't correct either lol.

 

[justaway12]

They can in SMW when there was a koopa out of his shell, he gets angry and kicks it, then jumps back in, they can also jump back in, in 64.
Even if you jump on a koopa then pick it up and put it back down, they go out, kick it and jump back, not sure about that though.

Common sense, right, but Bowser isn't afraid of the water, he doesn't live in the sea, etc.

I know I'm not corrected, but I backed it up.

 

[Nova9000]

They can in SMW when there was a koopa out of his shell, he gets angry and kicks it, then jumps back in, they can also jump back in, in 64.
Even if you jump on a koopa then pick it up and put it back down, they go out, kick it and jump back, not sure about that though.

Common sense, right, but Bowser isn't afraid of the water, he doesn't live in the sea, etc.

Yes Koopas can do all that game mechanic stuff. Too bad it doesn't work like that in RL.

*facepalm*
Did you read anything? I said Bowser most resembkes a Kappa. I know he isn't one. Please don't put words in my mouth or try to twist my points that I make. If you do not understand just say so.

And I backed mines up as well. You showed a pic. I showed a variety of pics. And its not like we can relate Bowser to anything in RL (as if we haven't been doing this the entire thread...NOW we don't do this **** huh? smh...) because that would be wrong right?

 

[justaway12]

You even saw his shell isn't structured the same way as a normal shell.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth.

When video games don't tell you, use common sense...
Nintendo won't tell you everything but the Bowser Shrine does have more pics than just the two I've seen repeated here.
And you aren't correct either lol.

I thought you were talking about him being a Kappa

 

[Nova9000]

I recognize that. But a shell still operates in the same way and has the same purpose.

And that quote was in reference to no RL comparison to anything, even though we've been doing it for the entire thread.

 

[justaway12]

Just look at his shell.

It doesn't have anything at the bottom, there is no way he can hold it up like a regular turtle.

 

[Nova9000]

His legs are too big and strong for it to hinder him. And turtles are normally on all 4s so you can't really base that as a point for Bowser to have a backpack shell.

 

[justaway12]

You do know this isn't about speed anymore, right?

Bowser's weapons > Ganon.

 

[Nova9000]

I can accept that. But as of recent these allegations have been pholiny at best so if you're going to make Ganon lose every match, do it the right way.

 

[JOE!]

ganon originally won all his matches (except snake)

we recently just proved the other guys had things that beat him (except snake)

as for the "game mechanic" of the shell. How is it a game mechanic? It proves koopas arent turtles in that their shell is equipment.

Other examples inlclude paper mario (kooper removes his shell when you meet him) and in NSMB where mario can actually wear a koopa shell.

their shells are manufactured, not grown.

EDIT:

and does falcon lose all his MU's or no?

should we make his gun along with falco's fire bullets?

If not, we need to look over the 4-way again since falco's weapon either needs to be changed or lolphail'ed

 

[justaway12]

It really isn't about his speed, nobody IIRC, has been talking about that recently.

No really, I haven't seen anyone talking about that as of late, but I haven't been paying much attention, just look back.

@JOE!: He shouldn't fire bullets, I even should it was a laser.

 

[Nova9000]

ganon originally won all his matches (except snake)

we recently just proved the other guys had things that beat him (except snake)

as for the "game mechanic" of the shell. How is it a game mechanic? It proves koopas arent turtles in that their shell is equipment.

Other examples inlclude paper mario (kooper removes his shell when you meet him) and in NSMB where mario can actually wear a koopa shell.

their shells are manufactured, not grown.

EDIT:

and does falcon lose all his MU's or no?

should we make his gun along with falco's fire bullets?

If not, we need to look over the 4-way again since falco's weapon either needs to be changed or lolphail'ed

So now their shells are made?
*facepalm*
I quit...

Either make falcon's gun as good as Falco's or Falco fails and he's dropping as well.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Salem, get that picture. I'm interested.

I also want to know in general how realistic we're going. Take Yoshi for example. Are we going to make it a raptor, or a squishy slow fat thing?

 

[Nova9000]

Yoshi has been nerfed to the pont he can only crawl. I coul ddebate more about it, but that would be fanboyism on my behalf. His head is too big to do anything, just like Sonic.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Yes, but I mean are we going completely realistic?

e.g. Ness and Lucas can't move properly, Star fox characters can't really work,...

And no one ever answered how Ridley's gonna do without a false pallate.

 

[Nova9000]

No not that far. And I don't think anyone cares about Ridley since we did the bosses a while ago.

 

[REL38]

@Bowser

Looking more closely at how things are shown in the Mario games, it very much does seem that Koopa Troopas have manufactured shells.
They can leave their shell, forcefully or voluntarily, and Mario is shown to wear em' as well.

What does this tell us?
Koopa Troopas have manufactured shells.
Bowser is a Koopa, but not a Troopa

Koopa Troopas belong to the Koopa family, but are a different species, being Troopa.
Their unique trait is being able to play "hermit crab". They obviously are not born with shells and so buy/find one.

To further my point, Lakitu's shell resembles Bowser's.
It doesn't wrap around his entire body.
Unique-ness about this species is the need to stay on clouds due to being prone to attack (RL aside)
This makes Lakitu his own species as well.

Hammer Bros. belong to the Koopa family, but their shell seems attached to them. The only manufactured part of them are their helmets and hammers.
This makes them another species of Koopa.

Magikoopa belong to the Koopa family, but have no shell at all.
Instead, they utilize magic (RL aside) to survive.
This makes yet another species of Koopa.

Exact same thing with Bowser.
He is his own species of Koopa.
He has a doggy muzzle, an armored shell, fire and brute strength.
His shell does not wrap around his body. It resides on his back, just like a Lakitu.
His shell is not manufactured like a Troopa's shell. His is part of his body.
He cannot remove it. It is something trait to his species.


Bowser's shell is in no way manufactured. That only applies to Troopas.
Bowser's shell is part of anatomy which is reason he recieved an evolutionary upgrade of brute strength and armored shell to serve as protection.

 

[JOE!]

@REL:

explain SMRPG then?

i think this is a kindof moot point now anyways as he now just has weaponary that replaces his firebreath...

 

[adumbrodeus]

@REL:

explain SMRPG then?

Stuff put on his shell, just like people and characters add to their natural defenses ALL THE TIME.

From clothes to full plate-mail, intelligent creatures have a history of adding extra layers of protection, why not bowser?



As far as weapons go... he's on 4 legs now, and the shell's design limits range of motion by a great deal which prevents him from effectively using his weapons, he can't throw well, and using a melee weapons... yeah, not so effective.

 

[justaway12]

He wouldn't add an extra shell on him, I doubt that is possible.

Besides, why will Peach put on an extra dress, Mario put on extra overalls, Geno put on a different cape, Mallow put on extra pants?

If he puts anything on anything, I would really think that counts as his accessories block, not his armour lock.

I would have provided other examples, but I'm sure people would have cmoplained about the canon =/
Despite it being one of our only things to go on besides SMRPG.

 

[REL38]

Armor isn't new for Koopa's, but I doubt Bowser can actually do the same as Troopas.

I see two possibilities:

1. The shell is impossible to wear.
It would get in the way of the Spikes and keep him from actually wearing it at all.

2. The shell is possible to wear.
But it would have to be custom made for him for it to be wearable.
If it is, then it can very well protect Bowser from Ganon's Zweinhander.
The fact that it surpresses damage in SMRPG suggests padding of sorts to soften these blows.

 

[JOE!]

all im saying is that based on the fact that Koopa (troopas) can exit their shell, and that bowser has a seperate shell he can wear in SMRPG (which would be very unorthodox if it were made to be put over his current one..) that he could take it off.

also, we're done with those MU's...falcon anybody?

 

[justaway12]

He has a laser and no other items, which was disproven sucky by US, IIRC.

Mario has a bomb, throwing hammers and close combat weapons.

IDC about the rest.