TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Sieguest]

Also, I say Nightmare would probably win this. Bigger weapon = more reach and power. But, the Black Knight can have lances so I dunno.

Except for the part where Nightmare has to be able to even pick up his sword much less swing it effectively.

 

[UncleSam]

Also, I say Nightmare would probably win this. Bigger weapon = more reach and power. But, the Black Knight can have lances so I dunno.

I implore you to read this post.
plz?

But I would give it a 1000-0 in favour of Black Knight for one simple reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR1gCSO9NB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1M7xbCCIs&feature=related

3:00 minutes in for both.


Those are simple 35 lbs swords. And they are pretty small compared to other swords used in anime and whatnot. They were wielded by a very big irish man who is an expert blacksmith and has wielded several swords before. Guess what happened?

Sword's size combined with how the weight was proportioned made them very awkward to use and deal very little damage compared to what a smaller sword could.

And this is what kills Nightmare, regardless of the fact that he has a tumour or not: noone, no matter how strong, can wield that thing he calls a sword in the real life. It is even bigger than the swords shown above.

At least the Blacki Knight could use his sword with two hands, regardless of how he was trained. Black Knight can't, whetter he uses one or two hands.

 

[ElPanandero]

@You Two

Yeah I know how to in concept, I beat once on normal. When I played through on hard I used weaker unites 9goodd logic there >.>) Which didn't include Shinion. That leaves me with Laguz King + Ike, which may be able to finish it, but I playthrough with no deaths and there is always a buttload of deaths on that final map., thats probably what makes it the hardest.

 

[payasofobia]

WHAT IS WRIGHT? WHAT IS WRONG?

GIVE ME A SIGN......WHAT IS LOVE?!

Summary:

The winner is: the Black Knight 1000-0.

Reason: better armour, doesn't have any tumours and has a weapon he can actually use.

 

[payasofobia]

Don't hurt me.....don't hurt me.....no more....

What is love?!

 

[UncleSam]

@You Two

Yeah I know how to in concept, I beat once on normal. When I played through on hard I used weaker unites 9goodd logic there >.>) Which didn't include Shinion. That leaves me with Laguz King + Ike, which may be able to finish it, but I playthrough with no deaths and there is always a buttload of deaths on that final map., thats probably what makes it the hardest.

yeah I did that once on my first play-through because I didn't know how to manage my EXP well, but then I tried it again and focused on planning out which units would be most useful in the endgame and started abusing them early so I could get them to a decent level (or possibly maxed) by the endgame. you know, like Edward...
and paya:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoSNBTt9QBw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZd-Bi8wBpI&feature=watch_response

 

[payasofobia]

Ike would have won if he had attacked first.

Fact.

 

[UncleSam]

Ike would have won if he had attacked first.

Fact.

in his vids whoever has the higher speed attacks first.

 

[payasofobia]

Which is bull**** in itself.

Makes the speed stat even more of a gamebreaker and gives swordmasters an even bigger advantage that noone else except thieves get.

The one who attacks first should be the one with the highest mobility stat, not the speed stat.

 

[JOE!]

just waiting for a new page for convenience of the linking stuffs...

 

[Sieguest]

The one who attacks first should be the one with the highest mobility stat, not the speed stat.

err what?

You've more mobile than me so you can move left, right, up and down, while I only can move right, but I can move 30mph and hour to your two miles an hour, so of course you should attack first.

Perfect sense.....
/sarcasm

 

[Diddy Kong]

I implore you to read this post.
plz?

Ah I see. Nightmare could as well swing a log of wood then at the Black Knight, might even be more effective as well. Yeah, Black Knight wins then. I was hoping he'd win as well. So it's all cool. (:

Anyone playing Monster Hunter Tri? The Great Sword weapon archetype there resembles Nightmare's style a lot. Except, it's about as slow as in real life.

 

[UncleSam]

Which is bull**** in itself.

Makes the speed stat even more of a gamebreaker and gives swordmasters an even bigger advantage that noone else except thieves get.

The one who attacks first should be the one with the highest mobility stat, not the speed stat.

that's a dumb way to think about it, the move stat doesnt effect direct combat during a battle so why should it be weighted? it makes sense for the faster person to attack first

 

[payasofobia]

err what?

You've more mobile than me so you can move left, right, up and down, while I only can move right, but I can move 30mph and hour to your two miles an hour, so of course you should attack first.

Perfect sense.....
/sarcasm

Gameplay mechanics. I'll explain it later.

that's a dumb way to think about it, the move stat doesnt effect direct combat during a battle so why should it be weighted? it makes sense for the faster person to attack first

Because the character with the most mobility is usualy the one who reaches the opponents first during battle, regardless of how high or low their speed stat is, and therefore attacks first.

Just think about how your Knights are left in the dust and almost never attack enemies because of their ****ty mobility while cavaliers will always reach opponents first and get the most kills.

A proper way to weigh down the mobility stat? Make both characters begin away from each other, taking the guy who with the best mobility as a basis on exactly how far away they begin from each other.

Say, a knight with 5 mobility fights against a cavalier with 7: they both begin 7 spaces away from each other.


As for the cases where both characters have the same mobility, she could make it a best of three or five, with each character taking turns.


But the main point is: speed doesn't dictate who gets to attack first in-game. Taking it as a basis for such a fight-defining variable as who attacks first makes it even more powerful than it really is in-game, and gives characters who specialize in speed an even bigger advantage that they wouldn't get in normal gameplay otherwise.

It would be like giving the guy with the most strength Silver weapons while the weaker dude is forced to use bronze ones.

 

[UncleSam]

stuff

in a more sensible scenario, if two ppl are next to eachother in realtime who would attack first? the faster one, since this game is turn based he let the faster one go first instead of who he wants to go first. These battles are for show, he doesn't plan these out or anything.

 

[payasofobia]

In a more sensible scenario, the guy with the better muscles would be able to move faster than the stereotypical "I have no muscles and yet I am fast!" RPG guy.

But whatever, you are right. She does these fights for show.

 

[UncleSam]

you mean better leg muscles and less armor. Also a characters CON associates with speed, that ragnell is perdy heavy right thar.

 

[payasofobia]

Not anymore. Con no longer dictates which weapons you can use, only who you can rescue. Now it is strenght who dictates that, and Ike has plenty of that.

And yeah, Ike also does have leg muscles to move quickly, but he also has something Edward lacks: arm muscles. He should attack faster thanks to that.

 

[UncleSam]

Not anymore. Con no longer dictates which weapons you can use, only who you can rescue. Now it is strenght who dictates that, and Ike has plenty of that.

And yeah, Ike also does have leg muscles to move quickly, but he also has something Edward lacks: arm muscles. He should attack faster thanks to that.

you know you are the one who just recently posted vids on how massive swords are kinda counter-effective. A Trueblade would have a better reaction time and will strike with a smaller more precise sword, it takes less energy to move that sword faster.

 

[JOE!]

oh snap....


weapons to be decided as theyre arsenal is just lol....

 

[Nova9000]

I actually know both of these games quite well, so I'm relevant for once lol...

I can go into detail for each character tomorrow.

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

I'm gonna go ahead and give it to J&D. I only played one Ratchet and Clank game, but I've played a good deal of the J&D series.

Then again, I'm biased, having not enjoyed the one R&C game I've played.

 

[REL38]

Doesn't Ratchet have gun that burps?

Huh

 

[REL38]

Double post

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[MarthTrinity]

Ratchet and Clank win it. Clank acts as a jetpack and Ratchet obviously has a much larger arsenal. Ratchet also has more experience with firearms as Jak doesn't use them until the second Jak and Daxter (and he lived on an island where it was unlikely to have firearms in the first game).

 

[Nova9000]

http://jakanddaxter.wikia.com/wiki/Morph_Gun
http://ratchet.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_weapons

Umm...JOE! you might wanna decide weapons unless they get access to all of them...in which case I'm assuming the future clause is in effect.

 

[Nova9000]

Double Post...
What's with SWF and these dbbl posts that are unintentional?

 

[ElPanandero]

@Yea these double posts blow

For the MU, I'm gonna give it to Ratchet and Clank unless the weapons sway my opinion. Clank is a robot who should be able to utilize some form of offense, or at least be an accessory (someone mentioned a jetpack a page back?) while Daxter is an anthropomorphic weasel, whose humanoid anatomy is not fit to really do anything.

 

[JOE!]

yeah, i dont even know where to start with Ratchet and Clank for weapons...

 

[Nova9000]

Well....I think that we use the following weapons just to make it "easy":
R&C: (I can pick specific ones if you wish)
Blaster
Grenade Launcher
Sniper Rifle
Shotgun
Rocket Launcher
Flamethrower
RYNO (Rip Ya a New One)

J&D:
Plasmite RPG
Beam Reflexor
Gyro Burster
Vulcan Fury
Arc Wielder
Peace Maker
Super Nova

Also, Clank has his own set of powers, but Dax can shoot guns as well.

 

[UncleSam]

I've played one of each game, so uhh, don't know much.

 

[MarthTrinity]

True that Dax can shoot guns. . .but could he realistically utilize the arsena that Jak uses with his small size? Most of the guns are larger than he is really.

Also, I remember in -ONE- of the Ratchet games, Clank was able to fire electrical blasts from his antenna. That coupled with the fact that he can essentially be used as a talking jetpack make him far more useful than Daxter IMO.

Further more, if it came down to melee fighting. . .Ratchet has a weapon, as far as I can remember, Jak does not (he uses his fists only IIRC...although he can use his guns too as bludgeons...)

 

[Sgt. Baker]

I finally get back and what do I get....a very interesting MU

I don't know much about each character so I'll have to look into both groups shortly.

Also, Nova9000, some of the listed weapons for J&D seem......woah lol, but I (and probably a few people here) do not know what they do. R&C's weapons are self-explanatory (except for the RYNO). Could you give a brief definition of the more obscure-sounding guns?

 

[goldwyvern]

Well, I ahve no experience with J&D, so I cant help there, but I have plenty of knowledge of the R&C series and have played through ToD and CiT. Given that most of the designs that we are using are the most recent (Prince of Persia, Nightmare, etc), Id say giving Ratchet and Clank a selection of weaponry from the Future Series (Tools of Destruction, Quest for Booty, and Crack in Time), as well as possibly giving Clank some tools from Secret Agent Clank, a relatively recent game starring Clank.

Ive created a balanced list of weaponry and gadgets that they both could viably use IRL (some of this stuff is just a bit too crazy for the Future Tech clause) and have thought of hte real-world applications for. Get ready for a bit of in-depth analysis:

Ratchet

Omniwrench Millenium 12- Wrench for one-handed combat and mechanical use. Proficient usage of wrenches as weapons has been seen throughout hte Ratchet and Clank series. Made of strong metal material able to damage robots and battle armor.

Combuster - Relatively small firearm, size of a small rifle, light, fires globs of extremely hot liquid distances of several yards away, has been shown to create puddles of said liquid when upgraded, relatively rapid fire, large ammo capacity.

Mag-net Launcher - weapon slightly smaller than an RPG, moderate weight, fires large (about 6' by 6' possibly) nets of electric energy that wraps around a foe shocking htem with electricity constantly until it dissipates after multiple seconds, giving Ratchet time to pull out another weapon and attack, slow firing rate, noticable reload time, small amount of ammo.

Negotiator - Rocket Launcher slightly larger than a machine gun, lightweight, has very slight seeking properties and large explosive power, relatively fast firing rate, moderate reload time, holds about 10 rockets.

Pyro Blaster - Relatively standard flamethrower, has about 40 seconds of constant use before running out of fuel, has slightly fanned out spread of flames.

Shard Reaper - Shotgun which fires shards of sharp, tough material at high velocity, moderate firing rate and ammo amount, shards contain "Pyrocidic nano clusters" that cause shards to explode with small force shortly afiter hitting something and liquid nitrogen which can possibly freeze parts of the body it hits.

Shock Ravager - one-handed weapon the size of the wrench at first, but is really a whip of electricity up to 5-6' long, having 30 energy cells, which means 30 "cracks of the whip", specifically designed to grasp and remove/destroy enemy shields.

Fusion Grenades - Glove-like device that holstered a moderately-powered launcher for grenades, firing them severla feet in front of Ratchet, exploding 1 second after being fired, holds 8 grenades with large explosive power.

CryoMine Glove - similar glove-like device invented by Ratchet's father, creates mines that tracked teh foe and rolled to them, exploding with a large amount of a freezing substance (most likely liquid nitrogen), holds 8 mines.

Mr. Zurkon - portable assistants that are durable and powerful, shooting powerfu lazers at foes by itself and being aggressive, Ratchet can hold roughly 3-5 with him, spits funny and distracting one-liners in the third person ("You are not fit to fight Mr. Zurkon."), when defeated or used up, simply self-destructs in a very minimal explosion.

RYNO (Rip You a New One) V - There's a good reason this thing is banned throughout the galaxy. This huge, heavy minigun-like weapon fires huge amounts of rockets with moderate seeking and small explosive abilities at moderate range, while also firing nonseeking larger rockets with huge explosive power at moderate distances, being entirely automatic rapidfire, shooting huge amounts of rockets at one time, has 1500 individual rockets and a small amount of large rockets, firing one large rocket every six seconds of continuous fire, very heavy, moderately quick reload time.

Plasma Striker - Lazer Crossbow with moderately powerful scope (about 50 or so feet can get a nice closeup view), has nice power, is heavy and large with good kickback, pinpoints weakpoints on foe with circles, holds little ammo and has slow firing rate, relatively impractical at close range.

Tesla Spikes - a group of posts inside a glove device, holds 6, generates an electric field that effects anything within the area of the posts, but the posts must stay within about 10 feet of each other, and it only effects foes on the ground.

Hoverboots - Ratchet has shown prowess with hoverboots, doing walljumps, jumps, highspeed courses, fast turns, etc, while still being able to attack with his wrench/some weaponry, keep him hovering a good foot (give or take 1-4 inches) off the ground.

Clank

Fists - Clank can attack with his fists in both slapping and chopping fashions to moderate effect, able to damage some wild animals.

Jetpack/Helipack/underwater capabilities - Clank can propel himself (and Ratchet if on his back) up into the air several feet and can use a propeller in his head to glide slowly in whatever direction safely to the ground, and he can be used to propel himself and Ratchet underwater.

Tie-a-rang - Clank has had a Bow Tie outfitted with razor blades and given the ability to return to its thrower after flying a few feet, dealing good damage, with Clank clipping it to his person because of hte magnet on it.

Cufflink bombs - Clank also wears cufflinks that he can remove and detonate to moderate explosive effect, and he presumably holds a small amount of extras with him.

Storage/Shrinking - Clank is essentially Ratchet's hammerspace as well, having a device inside his chassis that apparently shrinks weaponry and stores them, allowing Ratchet to quickly and easily access and carry his large arsenal of weaponry.

Thats it. Whew. Feel free to not use any of those, but hose are the most plausible weapons in the Future series (at least to me) for IRL fighting. link to this post in the OP if these are added for convenience (and for me to be important) plz.

 

[Nova9000]

True that Dax can shoot guns. . .but could he realistically utilize the arsena that Jak uses with his small size? Most of the guns are larger than he is really.

Also, I remember in -ONE- of the Ratchet games, Clank was able to fire electrical blasts from his antenna. That coupled with the fact that he can essentially be used as a talking jetpack make him far more useful than Daxter IMO.

Further more, if it came down to melee fighting. . .Ratchet has a weapon, as far as I can remember, Jak does not (he uses his fists only IIRC...although he can use his guns too as bludgeons...)

It's a Morph gun. It's not that big and he can hold it on his shoulder and squeeze with his hand..err....paws.
Clank's attack was useless; you were better off using the ratchet lol. The best thing Clank can do is become a hover pak. But, in the case of Dax, the Clank zapper could be fatal.
CQC yes Ratchet wins.

I finally get back and what do I get....a very interesting MU

I don't know much about each character so I'll have to look into both groups shortly.

Also, Nova9000, some of the listed weapons for J&D seem......woah lol, but I (and probably a few people here) do not know what they do. R&C's weapons are self-explanatory (except for the RYNO). Could you give a brief definition of the more obscure-sounding guns?

Ok....I only chose the kinda realistic weapons, but I'll organize each arsenal.

Blaster

Ratchet brings to the table his Dual Vipers while Jak has his Vulcan Fury. Both focus on speed firing but aren't very powerful.

Grenade Launcher

Ratchet has his Nitro Launcher and Jak has the Plasmite RPG. The Nitro Launcher has a bigger radius but the Plasmite is a lot more accurate and bounces off walls.

Sniper Rifle

Ratchet has his Fusion Rifle and Jak comes with his Beam Reflexor. Ratchet is wayyy more accurate but Jak's is more lenient since the shots richochet.

Rocket Launcher

Ratchet packs his Arbiter and Jak packs his Peace Maker. Both fire from mid range and can pack a wallop. The Arbiter shoots missles and the Peace Maker ffires energy that react ssimilar to electricity. Both can be semi-targeted.

Element Thrower

Ratchet has the Lava Gun while Jak has his Arc Wielder. The Lava Gun shoots liquid magma but from a limited range. That magma does kill however. Jak has practically a telsa coil at his disposal. It has more range but less power.

Misc. Item

Ratchet has to have a form of a shotgun, in this case the Blitz Gun. It's an energy blunderbuss in a way, but it works. Jak has his Gyro Burster. It fires off a disc that self propells itself and roams until it meets the enemy and it fires off 50 rounds before falling.

OMGWTFHAPPENEDTOMYLEGS

Ratchet Rips Ya a New One (R.Y.N.O.) which fires off about 7 powerful missles that are strong for no reason...Jak has a Super Nova which just turns anything on screen into dust...nuff said.

I hope that satisfies....

 

[Nova9000]

dbbl post....502 Bad Getaway...

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Oh okay, thank you very much.

It seems that R&C's weapons are a lot more "practical" IRL. I'm going to assume theat there aren't really walls in the arena for J&D's certain guns to use to have their ammunition bounce off lol.

But also here's some to be considered, which side has more experience in weaponry? Such great firearms need great handlers- who is more well trained?

So thus far I'm giving R&C weaponry- it just seems more practical to use. But gunmanship can be influential.

Also I'm looking over both Clank and Daxter on their own. It was mentioned that Clank has "gadgets"? That could be handy I'll check out what items can be useful. Also, are we then going to let Daxter weild firearms? It only seems right if Clank has his own gadgets.

 

[Nova9000]

I never played the Clank game so I only know what he does in the games off PS2. But from reading above he has some nice gadgets. Dax can use a gun as welll IMO too.

There is the version of Jak's gun that doesn't bounce off of wals that can be used if tht is too unrealistic.

And now that I look at it a bit more, Ratchet > Jak. Not only in firearms, but armor as well. Jak has used weapons for about 3 years, but Ratchet has used more weapons and had more adventures.

 

[goldwyvern]

Ah, yes, I forgot about Ratchet haveing superior armor. In the Future Games, Ratchet purchases and uses armor that is full-body and reduces damage greatly (The game descriptions list them as reducing 25/33/50% of all damage in typical game fashion, although Im sure that the armor can still take quite the beatingfpr Ratchet). As for Clank's "Gadgets", I listed the ones I think would be hte most plausible in my post, but there are more. Clank is connected to and is helped by the mysterious Zoni, who have the power of time that they give Clank. This includes slowing time in concentrated areas using a large supply of time grenades, fighting with a staff called teh Chronoscepter (although he did give it away at the end of CiT), and the ability to "reverse the destruction" of objects and machinery, fixing them by rewinding them until they are back into functional state. Im not sure how we can explain time manipulation though, so I left that out.

Clank was also given a selection of abilities in Tools ofDestruction, although these abilities were removed in QfB and CiT. These included wings that could catch wind currents, and a Geo-laser that drew holes in rock.

 

[Chucklez]

Armor wise, if you look at it realistically, Ratchet will have a higher chance to survive big hits and greater durability in battle. This, however; also means that speed wise he is more limited within close and mid rage with mobility as would anyone wearing bulky armored apparel. At long range, Ratchet's gadgets such as the charge boots could give him a quick burst of speed where needed. Jak in turn for less armor, receives much greater mobility and can dodge big attacks. But the margin for error is reduced.

Now my big question: Is Jak allowed to change forms. EX: Dark Jak, Light Jak.