TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

how would forms work?

 

[Chucklez]

Well, good question. Realistically speaking again:

Jak's Dark Jak form could allow for a quick boost of power and attacks. In Jak II and 3 it is shown his strength is drastically increased but speed is slightly reduced. (He runs in a berserk fashion but he is just as slow as normal Jak). In all fairness to Ratchet, Jak can't use weapons in this form and it only lasts a short time. If he uses this, he would most likely save it for a good purpose (such as a finishing blow) as he would only have time to use it once.

His light Jak form is strictly defense. No weapons or attacks. He can use this form to escape an instant kill or regain position. Like Dark Jak, it can only be used once so he will use it wisely.

If Jak uses any special attack, such as Dark Bomb, he is instantly returned to his normal form. These special attacks can be used:

Dark Jak:

Dark Bomb- Jak will leap into the air and deliver a dark energy shock-wave into the ground. Anything in the immediate area will be zapped and knocked down. (Short range)

Dark Blast- Jak jumps into the air and begins spinning rapidly, shooting arcs of Dark Eco from his body. It has a longer range than Dark Bomb, but less powerful. It will lift an enemy off their feet and slightly shock them. (Mid range)

Dark Strike- Jak shoots a large mass of concentrated Dark Eco at his intended target. This attack is powerful and has a very long range, but leaves him vulnerable if it misses. (Long range)

Light Jak:

Light Shield- Creates a temporary shield around Jak's body. This shield protects Jak from attacks for a quick time. This move can be repeated off and on without instantly transforming Jak back into normal form. (Short Range)

Light Flight- Allows Jak to flap his wings in succession essentially allowing him to glide. Each consecutive flap of the wings gives Jak less and less distance so it isn't technically considered real flight. Good for dodging ground attacks. (Mid Range)

Flash Freeze Time- Slows down time around Jak while he continues to move at normal speed. Great for getting into close range without getting shot. (Long Range)

 

[JOE!]

no, I mean how does he magicaly transform into these forms, and then use these magical abilities?

 

[Chucklez]

...

The Eco within his body. In Jak II he is pumped with Dark Eco allowing him to transform into Dark Jak. It's really not "magical" its biological.

Plus, Jak is bad-a**. Don't f*ck with him.

 

[JOE!]

What is Eco?

how does it change his biology nstantaneously and allow him to bend physics?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

no, I mean how does he magicaly transform into these forms, and then use these magical abilities?

...

The Eco within his body. In Jak II he is pumped with Dark Eco allowing him to transform into Dark Jak. It's really not "magical" its biological.

Plus, Jak is bad-a**. Don't f*ck with him.

Wait for it...

What is Eco?

how does it change his biology nstantaneously and allow him to bend physics?

SHAZAM.

This thread's about realism, Chucklez (god**** I feel like Spider-Man when he's wisecracking some goon). Transformations like that are pretty much null and void as they totally defy conventional genetics/physics/whatever.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Chucklez]

Ok then. Well. D*mn......YOU WERE STILLBORN!

In all actuality, you win case and point. I merely was stating that it could be used realistically. Now, the fact still remains, if this is about realism. Then Ratchet doesn't exist or is an animal in the zoo. Clank is a toaster. Daxter must scramble around on the ground in search of food. And there are no Sci-Fi weapons....

This obviously isn't true realism, now is it?

 

[JOE!]

There is nothing "stopping" these beings from ever existing...so 1st argument is out

and clank and the sci-fi weapons are plausible unless physics say otherwise, which is what our "future tech" clause is. As long as it could exist, but we just havent developed it yet, doesnt mean it's a no-go

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ok then. Well. D*mn......YOU WERE STILLBORN!

In all actuality, you win case and point. I merely was stating that it could be used realistically. Now, the fact still remains, if this is about realism. Then Ratchet doesn't exist or is an animal in the zoo. Clank is a toaster. Daxter must scramble around on the ground in search of food. And there are no Sci-Fi weapons....

This obviously isn't true realism, now is it?

Fair enough. Given those things however, it is completely within bounds to ascribe anthropomorphic features to those mammals due to one of the little clauses in this thread that talk about "scientific equivalents." There are animals we can base their traits off of. Same can be said of Clank getting the "humaniform" treatment as well, considering that there are robots about his size in our world.

If you can find an equivalent to Eco IRL, then maybe Jak could have access to it.

(No, radiation is not helpful to the guy. )

Smooth Criminal

 

[Chucklez]

There is nothing "stopping" these beings from ever existing...so 1st argument is out

and clank and the sci-fi weapons are plausible unless physics say otherwise, which is what our "future tech" clause is. As long as it could exist, but we just havent developed it yet, doesnt mean it's a no-go

What isn't "stopping" the beings from existing or at least allowing them to be sentient enough to use weapons? Contradiction? You say that nothing stops these creatures from standing upright, talking, and using weapons? Then you tell me that it has to be real and fit the nature of reality and physics.....ok.


@Smooth Criminal- I'll give you that. To keep this from entering a debate, I will stop here. I was just trying to contribute and help out....if you don't want me to help, then fine. I thought I could contribute in some way.

 

[JOE!]

im not trying to push you away, all im doing is saying what can and cannot work...

as for the anthros, what isnt stopping them is the power of evolution...

essentially all out ranthros are not from earth, and thus who knows what forces could have made their evolution favor what they bacame on their panets? there is nothign biologically stopping anthros from existing, it just hasnt happened

 

[Chucklez]

im not trying to push you away, all im doing is saying what can and cannot work...

as for the anthros, what isnt stopping them is the power of evolution...

essentially all out ranthros are not from earth, and thus who knows what forces could have made their evolution favor what they bacame on their panets? there is nothign biologically stopping anthros from existing, it just hasnt happened

Ok, with that logic, then what is to say about Jak being from a planet that has an energy source, Eco, allowing him to undergo a mutation? We haven't seen it happen. But then again, like you said: this doesn't mean it couldn't happen. It would be similar to radiation, but not harmful.

I can't think of a real world, substitution for Eco because there isn't one. I can understand your side of the argument, so if there is no eco, that's fine. I just wanted to point out that there could always be a possibility.

 

[Nova9000]

Ah, yes, I forgot about Ratchet haveing superior armor. In the Future Games, Ratchet purchases and uses armor that is full-body and reduces damage greatly (The game descriptions list them as reducing 25/33/50% of all damage in typical game fashion, although Im sure that the armor can still take quite the beatingfpr Ratchet). As for Clank's "Gadgets", I listed the ones I think would be hte most plausible in my post, but there are more. Clank is connected to and is helped by the mysterious Zoni, who have the power of time that they give Clank. This includes slowing time in concentrated areas using a large supply of time grenades, fighting with a staff called teh Chronoscepter (although he did give it away at the end of CiT), and the ability to "reverse the destruction" of objects and machinery, fixing them by rewinding them until they are back into functional state. Im not sure how we can explain time manipulation though, so I left that out.

Clank was also given a selection of abilities in Tools ofDestruction, although these abilities were removed in QfB and CiT. These included wings that could catch wind currents, and a Geo-laser that drew holes in rock.

Jak also had armor in Jak 3, but it was no where near as protective as Ratchets is. Either way, I see this in Ratchet's favor because of the experience that he has with his weapons and his armor. I think Dax could hold his own against Clank, but the Lombax is deadlier than Jak and the Ottsel.

Ok then. Well. D*mn......YOU WERE STILLBORN!

In all actuality, you win case and point. I merely was stating that it could be used realistically. Now, the fact still remains, if this is about realism. Then Ratchet doesn't exist or is an animal in the zoo. Clank is a toaster. Daxter must scramble around on the ground in search of food. And there are no Sci-Fi weapons....

This obviously isn't true realism, now is it?

Welcome to The Deadliest Brawler. There are certain things that are deemed realistic and unrealistic in the thread. Jak transforming would be unrealistic but Daxter and ratchet existing we deem realistic for the purpose of the thread. I will admit though, seeing these two in a canon battle Jak wins. But since guns prevail in reality and Ratchet hseems to have better ones, he seems to take this one. Don't take anyone's comments to heart though; it's just that there isn't much tolerence for fanboyism.

 

[Chucklez]

There is no fanboyism....I like both characters equally. It was just odd to me what was deemed realistic and what wasn't. I understand now.

But it never hurts to make an argument.

 

[Nova9000]

Cool. But JOE! I'm sure this is Ratchet's win. Jak is nice but his strengths seem to be all unrealistic.

 

[Chucklez]

...whatever. Cold, man.

Alas, I agree. Ratchet wins. His arsenal is much more flexible and I guess, realistic. Jak just doesn't have the battle skills and weapons required to top Ratchet.

 

[UncleSam]

Ok, with that logic, then what is to say about Jak being from a planet that has an energy source, Eco, allowing him to undergo a mutation? We haven't seen it happen. But then again, like you said: this doesn't mean it couldn't happen. It would be similar to radiation, but not harmful.

how would his body react to the eco that would cause him to undergo a mutation?
whatever species he is would have to have been in contact with it for millions of years for not only a resistance but a positive effect to arise from it and to pass that down. Also, how would he be able to revert himself?
EDIT: these are questions you should be asking yourself if you want to make a point to pass off This Clause

I can't think of a real world, substitution for Eco because there isn't one. I can understand your side of the argument, so if there is no eco, that's fine. I just wanted to point out that there could always be a possibility.

Spoiler

thiiiiiiiiiiis guuuuuuuuy

 

[Chucklez]

how would his body react to the eco that would cause him to undergo a mutation?
whatever species he is would have to have been in contact with it for millions of years for not only a resistance but a positive effect to arise from it and to pass that down. Also, how would he be able to revert himself?
EDIT: these are questions you should be asking yourself if you want to make a point to pass off This Clause

The argument is over. I said that I can understand if everything else doesn't have to be realistic but this one tiny thing does. It's really not that big a deal. I'm not the man in charge of the thread and I'm not trying to remove the clause.

Spoiler

thiiiiiiiiiiis guuuuuuuuy

Spoiler

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[UncleSam]

fine, but I can pull **** outta nowhere.

 

[Chucklez]

Cool story. So how long does this voting process take?

 

[UncleSam]

well JOE has to waste like 30 mins. in photoshop making a new MU pic... and then has to update the thread so uhhh...
Imma guesstimate. 31min.

Spoiler

lol IDK, JOE updates when he wants to

 

[Chucklez]

JOE is a beast. I take 31 min just to argue with people...

Spoiler

Phuck photoshop.

 

[Sieguest]

What is this? I don't even.....
lol is this MU all ready over?

 

[Nova9000]

Can you pull sumthin to convince people Jak wins? If not then...yea...

 

[JOE!]

well, we decided on a Rachet victory?

(that and I have photoshop pics pre-made )

 

[Sieguest]

Can you pull sumthin to convince people Jak wins? If not then...yea...

well, we decided on a Rachet victory?

(that and I have photoshop pics pre-made )

hmm I see...
Well, I don't feel I can pull an adum at the moment, but I'm just going to read the MU for lulz.

 

[UncleSam]

Can you pull sumthin to convince people Jak wins? If not then...yea...

r u talkin to me or NaCl?

Spoiler

apparently not me

cuz I could probably make something up out of Eco, nothing for Jak

 

[Nova9000]

Doesn't quite matter. If you can then feel free.

 

[UncleSam]

...
eh I was thinking of something else when talking about eco, maybe I should play J&D again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRzsZdcSDCQ <-- this is amazing.

 

[Chucklez]

That. Was. Hawt.

But seriously, you have an idea for eco? Seeing as how I argued all day about it, I'd like to hear it.

 

[UncleSam]

I was thinking of mana, how it changes it's composition from colored to dark and vice versa, but Eco doesn't do that (I believe)
light eco is mostly artificial so it can be broken in a chemical equation giving off energy (if it's a superheavy atom which almost all artificial elements are)
the other forms of eco would have followed the same basis, it naturally breaks down and reforms changing it's composition and giving off energy in the process, the thing is while you can break up colored eco for dark, to get dark back to colored you'd need to add energy so the fact that Dark Jak gains power contradicts itself.

 

[JOE!]

awww yeah

stats:

TTAR: 6'07" , 445.3 lbs

GARCHOMP: 6'03" , 209.4 lbs

 

[IsmaR]

Tyranitar's ability screws him over. Scarfchomp goddis. /interestpiqued/willpostlaterwhencrashboardsisn'trapingme

 

[JOE!]

I can barely read that...

 

[Sgt. Baker]

I don't have time to write a detailed explanation like the Groudon vs. Dialga MU but this is what I got.

Physical strength-wise Tyranitar is stronger (if you look at stats though) by a little bit. Attacking capabilities it seems that Tyranitar has his (appears to be) short claws and tail, while Garchomp has his jaws (HIS NAME ), and what appears to be hooks for claws.

Defense/armor Tyranitar has this as well. Tyranitar is (I guess, judging by his Rock/Dark typing) encased in hard rock while Garchomp is a dragon and appears to have dragon scales (that material Windwalker described for Diagla's skin should be used). It seems like Tyranitar would bbe able to take quite a lot of damage while Garchomp seems less likely to survive a few blows.

Speed/mobility wise, Garchomp has this GREATLY. Garchomp is famed for being extremly fast and agile. Also, Garchomp's "wings" are capable of of letting Garchomp glide (and only glidding, he can't fly).

I'll put it like this to finish this off. Based off their origin designs: Tyranitar is based off a T-Rex, a predator built for power and toughness. Garchomp can be considered to be based off a hammerhead shark- a predator built for quickness and fast strikes.

 

[REL38]

I'm leaning towards Garchomp
Mostly due to teeth, but that depends on Tyranitar's skin

No gliding, btw
Not with those flipper/wing things

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Okay no gliding sounds good.

I think we can assume that Tyranitar has rock-like skin, kind of like the rock armor of Groudon. But I see Tyranitar as a Groudon Jr. lol

 

[Chucklez]

Tyranitar wins.

Generally speaking, the faster predator usually wins. Speed is always a key in a fight. But how does a speedy predator take down an opponent that is 235.9 Lbs bigger with rock-hard skin? It can't. Despite how fast Garchomp is, Tyranitar will have few places where it can be attacked. How many times have you seen a Rhino getting killed and eaten? Few. Tyranitar's size and strength seem to be superior to Garchomp's.

This is like a rhino vs. an oversized praying mantis in my opinion.

 

[IsmaR]

I picture it more like a raptor vs a bipedal ankylosaurid. Both have deadly weapons, and sure Garchomp can evade and knock Tyranitar over a few dozen times, but in the longer run it'll be Chomp who's wearing out/getting hurt. One strong hit from Ty, be it from the stubby arms/tail/body blow/bite, appears like it'd cause serious-ish damage to Garchomp(broken bones/limbs, tearing of the crests/tail/'wings' and so on). You're 8/120, JOE.

 

[ElPanandero]

Tyranitar, for the aforementioned reasons