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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Nova9000

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is there proof he started at age 7?

all we know of him is that he was pulled from his "Studies" to go back home and fight for his country
Didn't Kaka-REL try the EXACT same thing with Zelda and her bow training?

And didn't we come to a conclusion with that?

And aren't the times very similar between Zelda and FE?

So either Beren Zaiga wins the thread since everyone dies of asphyxiation due to no evidence of training
OR
Assume training is given to Roy and that he can space.
OR
Go along with this:


 

Nova9000

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Pika???
You lost me...
And Beren > Pika so...


I mean that no one has taught them to breathe.
Every character falls under that category.
 

Nova9000

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That kills everyone that's an animal.
Animals don't train for anything.

Somehow, that makes them unable to breathe air???

Edit:
How do you lrn2breathe?????????????
D: D: D: D: D: D:

In reference to Pokemon they learn everything.
I don't know one that learns breathing...
lolololol.
And that means...ROB wins
lolololol.
Were you even in the back room when Adum was discussing this?
 

adumbrodeus

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Rob has the issue where there's no proof he was even programmed to do... well anything if we toss out his backstory.


But yea, check the social group, I made some pretty win posts about this.



Anyway, yes, training is assumed for the same reason zelda gets her quiver and sheath (and her own training), part of the culture of the day, it just wouldn't happen otherwise for royalty/high nobility.

Also, peak power rule (applies for everyone), so Roy just finished the FE storyline and has already faced down a number of dragons, why would a slow lumbering mal-proportioned giant ape make him nervous at all?


Again Joe, by proving DK is badly proportioned you've killed him for a number of MUs that he'd probably win as a gorilla.
 

Nova9000

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Double posted since I don't like a 666 post count.

But true words of wisdom...plus she would change my mind lol...
 

UncleSam

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Truth lol.
I wonder what the next MU will be whatever it is I should just repost quotes ppl said ages ago KNOWING people have forgotten about it by now and will tread already trodden ground.

FOUR
 

JOE!

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hes not badly proportioned.

look at an orangutan: are they lol fail becaus etheir arm : leg ratio is even wakier than DK's?

nope.

and we've allready seen the speeds a greta ape of DK-ish size can generate, he is by no means lumbering.
 

UncleSam

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hes not badly proportioned.

look at an orangutan: are they lol fail becaus etheir arm : leg ratio is even wakier than DK's?

nope.
oh come on you should know this.
Orangutan's live in trees and move through trees thus needing longer stronger arms.

Gorilla's live on land. they need more legs.

THREE
 

Nova9000

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JOE!, build has nothing to do with a sword.

Body builders also get cuts as well.
Even knives go through muscle; like cutting ham. It's not too much you can do in that retrospect.

 

JOE!

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where do you keep finding these pics? o_O

anyways, I wanted to see if Donkey kong of all fighters could compete with weapons, but I guess a giant ****ing ape cannot figth a 15 year old with a sword according to you guys

really, think about that statement....15 year old wins vs giant ramapaging ape because he has a hunk of steel, and no other advantage
 

adumbrodeus

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hes not badly proportioned.

look at an orangutan: are they lol fail becaus etheir arm : leg ratio is even wakier than DK's?

nope.

and we've allready seen the speeds a greta ape of DK-ish size can generate, he is by no means lumbering.
Notice the arm structure, orangutans have long thin arms for climbing trees, they are less efficient for moving on land that gorillas are, but they're also far smaller and less muscular then gorilla's arms.

DK's arms are FAR larger overall, and a great deal more heavy.


So yes, he is lumbering because reality says he is.

where do you keep finding these pics? o_O

anyways, I wanted to see if Donkey kong of all fighters could compete with weapons, but I guess a giant ****ing ape cannot figth a 15 year old with a sword according to you guys

really, think about that statement....15 year old wins vs giant ramapaging ape because he has a hunk of steel, and no other advantage
...

Not really, we're talking about a highly trained 15 year old, basically at the peak of conditioning, with a skill-set that is probably designed to be the best possible against this type of fighter.


You also underestimate a hunk of steel, that hunk of steel/iron/copper/whatever has allowed the human race to conquer animals for as long as it's existed, it is a massive advantage, and it tips the scales of just about any fight.


Also, when you made him a giant ape, you lol-phailed him, I see DK winning very few matches in the future unless you find something that changes that canonically.


Basically, you're severely under-estimating Roy, probably because you're not a sword-fighter, you don't understand the massive advantage that these things offer because of lack of experience, and even when presented with evidence your mind rebels against it because your perception is too narrow, that's why your arguments are consisting of, "this can't possibly be this powerful" as opposed to evidence to support your view. Because you can't conceptualize of it actually be that powerful, and that's the rub really.


Well, I'm sorry, but as the person here with a great deal of experience, not just with actually fighting, but the implications of differences in weapons tech has had on a historical level, I can tell you that they are that powerful and a hunk of steel DOES make that much of a difference.


Period. End of story.
 

Nova9000

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where do you keep finding these pics? o_O

anyways, I wanted to see if Donkey kong of all fighters could compete with weapons, but I guess a giant ****ing ape cannot figth a 15 year old with a sword according to you guys

really, think about that statement....15 year old wins vs giant ramapaging ape because he has a hunk of steel, and no other advantage
I have a LOT more where tht came from; I could spam the thread til next summer. ;)

 

Nova9000

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@ Seph
That one was funny lol. And thx; I intend to spam in 2010

But wish to lurk like Guest...


I found my cat lol.
That makes me and US having cats now.

Would try for Kaka-REL but he prefers Pikmin...
 

UncleSam

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I think JOE can't take the fact that a 15 year old kid can beat a gorilla.

just because you couldn't when you were 15 doesn't mean nobody can.

That's also because you didn't have training. or any weapons at all.

Did you fight a gorilla JOE?

TWO
 

JOE!

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I think JOE can't take the fact that a 15 year old kid can beat a gorilla.

just because you couldn't when you were 15 doesn't mean nobody can.

That's also because you didn't have training. or any weapons at all.

Did you fight a gorilla JOE?

TWO
hey, even adum said he couldnt do it, and he's our resident swordsman.

I just see it (as everyone's said) that Roy would need to play -perfectly- to Kill DK the majority of the time. That said, i brought up that we dont know exactly what kind of training he had, just that he was a noble...yet we do know he was sent away for scholastic reasons, then was brought back to a war that was foght using magical abilities and simple sword animations/manuevers that also shot out beams...

At least Zelda has a reasonable excuse of having no backstory to speak of other than chillin' at her castle, which can be filled with weapons training, along with being trained by the sheika (thus why she's shiek). Roy has the story of being sent of to school at a presumably younger age, then being drafted into a war where he fights using cunning (vs lycans at the least) and magical sword-beams rather than pure skill. Oh, and ph1r3.

I could see any of the other swordsmen doing what you're saying Adum...but Roy doesnt really show this finess, and kinda lacks the backdrop for it (sure, he's a lord, but as Ive said like 10 times he was sent away to school, not training to be a knight, then essentially drafted)


*shrug*
 

payasofobia

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JOE!

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you know, all of his games except the 1st Donkey Kong go against his name meaning "Dumb Ape".

I mean the stuff he does requires better-than-animal intelligence...
 

REL38

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hey, even adum said he couldnt do it, and he's our resident swordsman.

I just see it (as everyone's said) that Roy would need to play -perfectly- to Kill DK the majority of the time. That said, i brought up that we dont know exactly what kind of training he had, just that he was a noble...yet we do know he was sent away for scholastic reasons, then was brought back to a war that was foght using magical abilities and simple sword animations/manuevers that also shot out beams...

At least Zelda has a reasonable excuse of having no backstory to speak of other than chillin' at her castle, which can be filled with weapons training, along with being trained by the sheika (thus why she's shiek). Roy has the story of being sent of to school at a presumably younger age, then being drafted into a war where he fights using cunning (vs lycans at the least) and magical sword-beams rather than pure skill. Oh, and ph1r3.

I could see any of the other swordsmen doing what you're saying Adum...but Roy doesnt really show this finess, and kinda lacks the backdrop for it (sure, he's a lord, but as Ive said like 10 times he was sent away to school, not training to be a knight, then essentially drafted)


*shrug*
Rly O Rly?

I'm sure RPG attack graphics give a reasonable justification for what they can and cannot do in regards to skill :/

As well as Roy only studing who knows what for the entire duriation he was away. Exactly what did he study anyways?

A princess undergoing combat training is unlikely. Using arrows in TP is better proof. Her excuse is being shown to use her weapon.

EDIT: Pika knows how to ride a surfboard like a pro.
Does that give him analytical brain functions?


@Payas
Those Orange Bombs are actual oranges iirc
The TNT Barrels are available on-site.
Real apes can't operate machinery :/
 

Sieguest

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL6Id-9j7RY&feature=related

I don't know if this will change anything, but Donkey Kong has bombs. Also:



http://donkeykong.wikia.com/wiki/Donkey_Kong_64#Items

Look at items.

He also has barrels full of TNT.

And before you say that he doesn't have the intelligence to handle those:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4t2Odb7MOc&feature=related

He can pilot giant robots.
1. No vehicles
2. Where would he keep his bombs and barrels of TNT? He doesn't seem to have anyway of carrying all that on his person...
 

payasofobia

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1) I am not talking about bringing vehicles. It is just to show off his intelligence. He is pretty darn smart, even when compared to a human.



2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQ4xHR7Mhc

Look behind him. He carries a huge sack with him. He could use it.




Also, according to this site, a gorilla is 10 times stronger than the biggest American Football players:

http://www.awf.org/content/wildlife/detail/mountaingorilla

I doubt Roy will be able to take a single hit to the face from DK.



And this site:

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/monkeywire/2004-June/000626.html

Says that gorillas can jump over fences on zoos. Technicaly, a Gorillas are as agile as cheetahs and chimps.


And your average gorilla can run anywhere from 20 mph to 25 mph.

Humans, in comparison, can only run between 13 and 20 mph.
 

JOE!

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@Payas

Those things have already been covered :/
not really (as regards to exactly how smart he is or the fact he may use weapons at least)

And Paya, roy wins because he can apparently space vs DK to PERFECTLY win each time
 

payasofobia

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Yeah, I definetly found something that could definetly help DK



JOE!, what happens if a character delivers a blow that kills the other in 3 minutes, but the injured one smashes the other one's skull first, therefore killing him before dying himself a couple minutes later?
 

REL38

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not really (as regards to exactly how smart he is or the fact he may use weapons at least)

And Paya, roy wins because he can apparently space vs DK to PERFECTLY win each time
I meant in regards to his post about what gorillas can do.

An ape is dumb in relation to humans.
One bomb is an orange with explosives in it.
The TNT is acquired on-site.

You're exagerating Roy's spacing. As if one missed shot means insta-death for Roy :/
 

payasofobia

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I meant in regards to his post about what gorillas can do.

An ape is dumb in relation to humans.
One bomb is an orange with explosives in it.
The TNT is acquired on-site.

You're exagerating Roy's spacing. As if one missed shot means insta-death for Roy :/

Yeah, but this is no dumb ape. This is Donkey Kong.


And you did not see the bombs properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c68sAnJkGzc&feature=related

These are not fruits.


Yeah, I definetly found something that could definetly help DK



JOE!, what happens if a character delivers a blow that kills the other in 3 minutes, but the injured one smashes the other one's skull first, therefore killing him before dying himself a couple minutes later?
I need to know, JOE!. This could save DK thanks to a mere technicality and the way living being's bodies react to fatal wounds.

Your answer could end this in a draw or in a win for the Kong. So noone loses.
 

adumbrodeus

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Nobody came to my defense about my martial abilities, I'm hurt :cry:


hey, even adum said he couldnt do it, and he's our resident swordsman.
What?!

Nah, I said the opposite, I said I could beat DK.

What I said is that Roy would kick my ***.

I just see it (as everyone's said) that Roy would need to play -perfectly- to Kill DK the majority of the time. That said, i brought up that we dont know exactly what kind of training he had, just that he was a noble...yet we do know he was sent away for scholastic reasons, then was brought back to a war that was foght using magical abilities and simple sword animations/manuevers that also shot out beams...
The scholastic reasons included military training, as was standard for nobility during that period.

I'm sorry, but it was so crucial to their way of life that NOTHING interfered with the training.


And yes, we toss out the laser beams.


That said, no, he doesn't have to play anywhere near perfectly, he's got a good margin of error because of either time (DK will be far slower then reaction time) or distance depending on which DK model we use.


It SEEMS like it requires perfection to somebody unfamiliar with it, but the reality is that it's like smash, the small periods make the difference.

What's the difference between Falcon punch and Marth's jab? Both are less then a second, so it seems like it requires perfection to dodge both, but how many people get hit by a standing falcon punch unless they committed to something?

Not many.

That's because there's a massive margin of error, sure somebody who didn't know how to take advantage of it would still be hit by both (casual players are hit all the time), but to anyone who takes the game remotely seriously, one will hit, the other is a laughable attack.



At least Zelda has a reasonable excuse of having no backstory to speak of other than chillin' at her castle, which can be filled with weapons training, along with being trained by the sheika (thus why she's shiek). Roy has the story of being sent of to school at a presumably younger age, then being drafted into a war where he fights using cunning (vs lycans at the least) and magical sword-beams rather than pure skill. Oh, and ph1r3.

I could see any of the other swordsmen doing what you're saying Adum...but Roy doesnt really show this finess, and kinda lacks the backdrop for it (sure, he's a lord, but as Ive said like 10 times he was sent away to school, not training to be a knight, then essentially drafted)


*shrug*
You seem to be missing the point, every noble was trained in military, and heavily so. He would've gone through the process that was described there.

Why?

Because it was fundamental to the culture of the period, it was part of the agreement every noble made with his liege lord and was required in order for inheritance. If it was broken, they lost their home and land.


In other words NOTHING would interfere with his martial training unless he was literally incapable, but the family would be obligated to produce another son or lose their fief. A daughter only meant the land would go to whoever she married.



From that understanding, Zelda's training was more unlikely, however she gave direct evidence that it occurred, so she was the exception as opposed to the rule.



Roy, is the rule. He would never not be trained like this, it's quite simply totally unrealistic.


It's like a family that's ancestors came over on the Mayflower and still lives in America not teaching their kids English. It just simply wasn't done like that.
 

JOE!

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this is what Ive been arguing:

DK doesnt *need* to play perfectly to ruin Roy, whereas Roy must allways be on his toes and essentially never mess up, or else DK will jump on him and end it in 1 blow.

as for the one dies later thing, that would be a tie just like in (ironically) DK vs Ivysaur, where DK smooshes Ivy, but dies of poison.

However, the sword isnt as 100% deadly as an area where breathing = you're dead in seconds is...

What are the Odds Roy can make a gaurenteed Death-Hit on Dk if DK moves at him with the speed we've shown great apes to posess, along with making an intelligent move Roy wouldnt see coming (lets face it, would you expect an ape to do somethign strategic vs you in a situation like this?) such as faking him out, etc?
 

REL38

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@Payas

Ape's aren't smart in comparison to humans.

All of the weaponry in DK64 are based off of fruit.

Peanut Pop Gun?
Coconut Launcher?
Orange Grenades

RL oranges can't serve as productive explosives.
Or are you suggesting DK can use a bazooka that fires coconuts?

@Adumb

I stalled in your absence.
Doesn't that mean anything ;__;
 

JOE!

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DK used a coconut GUN (it fired in spurts)

Chunky used the Pineapple Bazooka :p

but anyways, doesnt the fact that he used weaponary/etc prove that DK has human-esque intellect? And Jungle beat even shows he knows how to scrap (kinda)?
 

payasofobia

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this is what Ive been arguing:

DK doesnt *need* to play perfectly to ruin Roy, whereas Roy must allways be on his toes and essentially never mess up, or else DK will jump on him and end it in 1 blow.

as for the one dies later thing, that would be a tie just like in (ironically) DK vs Ivysaur, where DK smooshes Ivy, but dies of poison.

However, the sword isnt as 100% deadly as an area where breathing = you're dead in seconds is...

What are the Odds Roy can make a gaurenteed Death-Hit on Dk if DK moves at him with the speed we've shown great apes to posess, along with making an intelligent move Roy wouldnt see coming (lets face it, would you expect an ape to do somethign strategic vs you in a situation like this?) such as faking him out, etc?


Well then, this would probably end in a draw....if DK didn't have bombs. Still, I will continue.


As bad as some injuries may seem at first glance, they aren't really that painful or fatal as they may seem. There are times when people won't even realize that they have been stabbed or shot.

This also applies to fatal wounds. When we hear that phrase, we inmediately think of "drop-dead instantly". That's definetly not true at all in the real life. When injured in a vital organ, there are still a good 1-2 minutes FOR YOUR AVERAGE HUMAN BODY to continue normal bodily functions before collapsing. This would mean that even a normal guy, like Ike, could get stabbed in the heart by Roy and still would have a good 2 minutes to kill Roy. Then he drops unconcious and dies if not treated.

How does this apply to DK? Well, even if Roy stabs him in a fatal spot, he could still be capable of grabbing Roy's sword, throw it away and then crush him with his monkey arms. Then he dies 4 minutes later. The match ends with both dead and in a draw.



Mind you, there ARE insta-incap spots in the body, namely the brain and the spinal cord. Those are the only places were a stab will most likely kil DK instantly. This would seem like a huge problem, but then I noticed the way DK and gorillas in general position themselves:



Unless stabbed from above or below, or from the sodes Donkey Kong's cord is very protected from damage thanks to that way of standing. And he could just keep facing Roy, never showing his vitals. Make a wall.

Granted, there is still the brain, but unless Roy stabs the eyes he won't be able to reach it. Rapiers are made to stab the weak links in armour, not to break it or pierce it directly. Also, I doubt Roy has the skill to aim for the eyes and stab him there constantly, and even when he stabs him, DK won't just stand there. Body reflexes will make him turn his head or move, making the stab miss the brain. Therefore, the skull should offer enough protection for his Brain.



So DK could simply get close to him, play defensive and intelligently, like the smart ape he is. Just like in jungle beats, but in a different position. Use his martial arts skill until worse comes to worst. Throw dirt at Roy's eyes, like apes do. Play dirty until the mammalian being's posterior waste collides with the ventilation device. If **** hits the fan and he gets stabbed, he could use his final moments to say "SCREW IT!" and crush Roy.

Then he dies.



This is without taking the bombs into consideration. With bombs, DK only has to do the above if he gets really unlucky.





Also: please watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c68sAnJkGzc&feature=related

These are pirate grenades. Not fruit bombs.
 
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