TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Emperor Time]

The question is "What should be done in the interests of ET?"

Guess we'll just have to continue until JOE! comes back...

I think Beren is gone, though...so....

 

[Nova9000]

And I strongly think that the ICs have this and that Oli doesn't win this. And unlike the other matches where I wanted to get a new MU goign so I bowed out, I really see ICs winning this. Beren sees it that way as well.
And what's with the new color?

Either way, JOE! is the one who calls these so we can keep at this or not.

 

[REL38]

And I strongly think that the ICs have this and that Oli doesn't win this. And unlike the other matches where I wanted to get a new MU goign so I bowed out, I really see ICs winning this. Beren sees it that way as well.
And what's with the new color?

To each his own, right?


Either way, JOE! is the one who calls these so we can keep at this or not.

This reminds me of an ol' proposition I made a long, long time ago.
*Adumb approved*

So we either:

a) keep discussing it. It worked with the Ivy MU and extended into 2 other MU's. Just keep discussing it.

b) start a riot

c) make our own thread

d) coup d'état. It'll work, I swear :D

We can overule whatever JOE says, right?

 

[Emperor Time]

JOE! has been faithful to this thread. I will not abandon him.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Hammers > Fists. Period.

Cleated-boots + kicking = PAIN for Pikmin and Olimar.

3 lbs Hammer + Overhead swing = Dead Pikmin, period.

Rigid, bark-like skin = limited motion, therefore slow. (No, tree bark is not flexible)

Seeing as the ICs can kill the Pikmin and Olimar, I don't see how Olimar wins when the ICs can plow through the crowd of 10 by plowing through them/ knocking them over then going straight for Olimar. If they didn't go for Olimar, they could kill the Pikmin by stomping on them while they are on their backs. They are vulnerable as Olimar would be on his back.

The fact they are left handed and Olimar is right handed makes things awkward for Olimar because he would be blocking with the arm he is punching with if he tried to block. The fact there is two of the means if Olimar is distracted by one, the other can kill him. Heck, Nana could give her hammer to Popo and he can go to town on Olimar's ***.

 

[REL38]

JOE! has been faithful to this thread. I will not abandon him.

Trufax

I just show my appreciation to JOE with complaints that lack sarcasm in the form of text.

:D

Shall we continue this debate then cuz Ima finish my rebuttle.

*looks at Beren's post*
Then apparently we continue.

 

[Skadorski]

REL did you respond to me at all?
You know, my post?

And why is ICs vs. Peach still up there?

 

[Sieguest]

@Marthage

You are a very observant fellow, eh?

I wanted to drop this once this started taking too much time out of my day.
I'm only continuing this arguement for the sake of keeping the outcome as it was (Olimar > IC's)

Is it just coincidence that JOE's favour has kept longer?
Maybe or maybe not.
Should these MU's be turned back to last only a week?
Perhaps.
Is this fair?
More or less, it is.
Is anyone getting special treatment in this manner?
No.
Are some MU's called far to early?
Yes.
Are some MU's carried out for far too long?
Perhaps.
Should new realizations of options in regards to character abilities be applied?
Idunno.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
The world may never know.


If it is uniformaly decided that we drop this match and keep it as it was, then I'll gladly cease and desist.
But if not, then I will continue to state my arguement.

The question is, what should be done?

The only reason I jumped in here was to combat this "ICs have muscular degeneration" statement that's been flying around....
whether or not that changes the outcome of the MU matters not to me...
but I will point out that things have changed since then

Oli won last time because of the poison pikmin defense...the ICs had triumphed over everything else besides that, which is why Oli won, but we've come back to say that that's not right and from game, the poison is upon ingestion....that totally took away the last advantage Oli had in the first go over, but, that's not my problem, I've only come to argue against the muscle degeneration and that's it, if I see that ICs may have a facet for victory, then hey, I'll pull it out, if it still seems Olimar wins...
*shrugs* oh well...

This reminds me of an ol' proposition I made a long, long time ago.
*Adumb approved*


We can overule whatever JOE says, right?

lol

*reads Beren's post*
hmmmm.......
well....Imah just lurk....

 

[Nova9000]

Well then we continue then. I'll respond tomorrow.

 

[JOE!]

@MArthage:

I was rooting for Zard....and why did you think i let Pit go against canon and have 2 swords

also, i get complains all the time of MUs ending too early, now you guys complain about me letting them fester? o_O

anywho, imma wait for what Vegeta has to say, in the meantime, Peach > Ics?

 

[Beren Zaiga]

*looks at Beren's post*
Then apparently we continue.

Cause you won't accept the fact that the ICs have a chance of killing Olimar.

If they have bark-like skin like you have suggested, it will make them rigid and stiff in their movements, they therefore will be slow, because their movements are stiffened up by their rigid skin which is screwing with the locomotion of their limbs. The ICs will be able to go through them without trouble because they need only knock them over in this case, because they will be slow to get up and give chase.

Hammers out range Olimar's fist in CQC, that is fact. The instant he is within range, he is in danger of being knocked over, where he is most vulnerable to attack by the ICs. A blow to the groin will cripple him, and whacking him in the stomach will knock the wind out of him.

Stepping and/or stomping on him will result in his suit getting punctured because of the cleats. Cleat spikes are sharp, how do I know, my brother wore them in Football. Those things can kill especially with all the weight the ICs can exert on them onto him. The sharp cleats can also grind the Pikmin. In essence, the cleats themselves are a weapon. Therefore they have two types of weapons to Olimar's one, his fist. They have two options, he has one. The rigidness of the skin REL has fortified them with does make them tougher, but not invincible to getting crushed.

Also metal glove ≠ brass knuckles, a glove is a glove and a metal glove does not augment a punch because it does not focus the energy onto one point like the brass knuckles do.

≠

Look at the brass knuckles then look at the Brute Knuckles. What do the brass knuckles have that the Brute Knuckles do not? Those raised ends on the "knuckles".

Just because a item has the word "knuckles" in it doesn't mean it works like brass knuckles IRL. The Brute Knuckles do not have those raised ends.

Therefore, the Brute Knuckles will not act like brass knuckles at all, it will act like the armored glove of a knight, which was not designed for punching so much as it was protecting the hand.

Face it, Olimar's weapon are not as effective for killing as the Ice Climber's are. REL nerfed the Pikmin by given them bark-like skin to the point of perpetual uselessness, and Olimar is now practically alone.

GG Olimar.

 

[Sieguest]

@MArthage:

I was rooting for Zard....and why did you think i let Pit go against canon and have 2 swords

also, i get complains all the time of MUs ending too early, now you guys complain about me letting them fester? o_O

anywho, imma wait for what Vegeta has to say, in the meantime, Peach > Ics?

..........
hmmmm
to give Pit a chance....
I'd have to go back and read up on Zard.... I don't remember you siding with it vs DK.... Iunno...
And it's not so much that too early or too late... but....
an MU going for THIS long.... is albeit tiresome.... and the coincidence of that and the resemblance to Ganon vs. Bowser is almost too close to not call to attention...
Maybe a week is too short,
but we've taken FAR too long on this, especially since no one has gotten anywhere... we need to find a medium.... that or maybe actually discuss the pros and cons of both sides instead of picking a character and rallying behind that character trying to make that character win which I think over time, is what this has fallen to instead of a discussion of who would be better....and I'm guilty of it myself....
(*cough* methinks because no side actually considers the others point of view IMO *cough*)

Cause you won't accept the fact that the ICs have a chance of killing Olimar.

If they have bark-like skin like you have suggested, it will make them rigid and stiff in their movements, they therefore will be slow, because their movements are stiffened up by their rigid skin which is screwing with the locomotion of their limbs. The ICs will be able to go through them without trouble because they need only knock them over in this case, because they will be slow to get up and give chase.

Hammers out range Olimar's fist in CQC, that is fact. The instant he is within range, he is in danger of being knocked over, where he is most vulnerable to attack by the ICs. A blow to the groin will cripple him, and whacking him in the stomach will knock the wind out of him.

Stepping and/or stomping on him will result in his suit getting punctured because of the cleats. Cleat spikes are sharp, how do I know, my brother wore them in Football. Those things can kill especially with all the weight the ICs can exert on them onto him. The sharp cleats can also grind the Pikmin. In essence, the cleats themselves are a weapon. Therefore they have two types of weapons to Olimar's one, his fist. They have two options, he has one. The rigidness of the skin REL has fortified them with does make them tougher, but not invincible to getting crushed.

Also metal glove ≠ brass knuckles, a glove is a glove and a metal glove does not augment a punch because it does not focus the energy onto one point like the brass knuckles do.

≠

Look at the brass knuckles then look at the Brute Knuckles. What do the brass knuckles have that the Brute Knuckles do not? Those raised ends on the "knuckles".

Just because a item has the word "knuckles" in it doesn't mean it works like brass knuckles IRL. The Brute Knuckles do not have those raised ends.

Therefore, the Brute Knuckles will not act like brass knuckles at all, it will act like the armored glove of a knight, which was not designed for punching so much as it was protecting the hand.

Face it, Olimar's weapon are not as effective for killing as the Ice Climber's are. REL nerfed the Pikmin by given them bark-like skin to the point of perpetual uselessness, and Olimar is now practically alone.

GG Olimar.

.......................
see?

 

[JOE!]

you know, i think this is why they had teh computer guy on the Deadliest Warrior do the actual MU.

I mean, all he did in the end was list the attributes, pros/cons etc of each fighter and their weapons into a program, and simulated how a fight would turn out (1000 times).

We dont have that here...and rely on essentially people (myself included) picking sides at times and rallying behind a character as we dont have really concrete data behind some of them...which leads to misconceptions, assumptions, and all other forms of shennanigans

 

[REL38]

@JOE

Maybe we should hire someone.
Do unbiased MU analysis in return for Premium Membership or something -__-

or

Have someone who's not actively involved give their take on the MU.

 

[JOE!]

but who could we get?

I mean, this whole thread is really like, just us...and has been that way for about 1000 pages o_O

 

[REL38]

@Beren, I suppose.

*no longer going with "bark skin". You suggested a skeleton. I'll go with your suggestion*

Pikmin were able to take the blunt force of the Segmented Crawbster and live.
The ratio behind them actually dying from its dominant claw swings is rooted behind the apparent spikes.
Whenever it swings its massive claw, it swings it high enough that the Pikmin usually only recieve the blunt force of the claw itself, not the spikes.

This enemey is almost the size of Olimar's ship.

The Pikmin have evolved an "exoskeleton" that has enough defense that it protects from the massive swing of a giant crustaceon. Pump them up to 3 feet and their "exoskeleton" will protect from a wooden mallet weilded by children (tone or not).
A mallet swing will not kill any of the Pikmin. Stepping on them won't do squat either.

If, by some ill fated reason, an IC steps on Olimar's suit while he's down, the force alone will not kill Olimar. That's a ludicrious assumption and you know that. He'd have to be made of glass for this to happen. However, if they perform a "squishing" motion, then the cleats may have the ability to tear through the suit. But this comes down to what the suit is actually made out of to actually be credible.


Olimar's "brass knuckles" aren't directly applied to Olimar's fists due to the fact that the Brute Knuckles treasure is over 10x the size of Olimar. What Olimar recieves from this dual treasure/upgrade is a more damaging punch. This does not limit it to being a large glove that's like a knights.

For more effeciency, it would use the material from the Power Glove Brute Knuckles and apply it to his current gloves. It would be applied in a manner similar to the above gloves, in certain set areas (pic gloves lack actual hard material there, but you get the point). The material from the Brute Knuckles can still serve its purpose in this manner.


Now then:

1. In Ice Climber, the IC's travled to 35 different mountains. Mountains are very large IRL. Especially at the base. They'll run out of food at one mountain, but they got 34 other ones with seals.

2. Exploration is a given. But this still leaves them with only slightly above average muscles for their age.

3. IC's can't throw the Pikmin. Knock off, yes, but not throw. Olimar can't throw them at his height, what makes you think the IC's will?
You underestimate the grip the Pikmin have. The fact that their claws will be dug into the parkas mean they won't be getting flung off. Especially when fur/cloth has easy grip. A Pikmin is very savage when it attacks. It is its only goal to kill the opponent. They would be using all of their might to cling on. It also doesn't take long to reach their faces at all. Think of their grip like a tick on human skin. Very tight.

4. Hammer offers power, but not enough to kill the Pikmin due to their "exoskeleton". Any swing with the mallet will create predictable start-up lag and plenty of cooldown lag. Olimar would only need to anticipate when they'll swing and close in during the cooldown lag. The other climber won't be able to swing their hammer to hit any Pikmin on the swarmed climber. That risks hitting their buddy. The climber would try to pull em' off of the swarmed climber while the other does the same, but that's when stray Pikmin attack the helping climber. Even Olimar can assist. When one climber sees their buddy getting attacked, they will try to help their buddy. This leaves them very open. That means they will get attacked as well.

5. Their arms aren't that weak. They have enough strength to dig into the foes skin and hold a grip. That marks strength. Olimar baits the climbers to swing and dashes in to attack with Pikmin during the cooldown lag from the swung hammer. They will no longer be able to use their hammer effectively because they'll be swarmed. This renders hammer usage insignificant.
Besides, a hammer swing won't kill a Pikmin. At worst, a swing will disorient one.
Pikmin have weight due to their size and "exoskeleton". Olimar can't throw his Pikmin. I find it very unlikely the IC's can pick up the heavy Pikmin by the stem and throw them. I highly doubt they can throw em' either.

6. Kids like to explore, but they also like to lounge about. They wouldn't be exploring every nook n' cranny 15 hours out of every day. Not very likely as the cold would cause them to also seek shelter and hang out in a cave for a good portion of their day. Scavenging the lower level of a mountain is a given, but not every day or even a majority of the day. They'd wanna avoid the cold and snow.

7. Cleated shoes to Olimar's ribcage will not kill him. It'll hurt, but suggesting that it'll kill him is ludicrious. Especially when Olimar height is even/taller than the IC's. Weight wouldn't be much different.
As I said before, what material is Olimar's suit made out of?
The material matters if you propose that it'll tear up with cleats.
A hammer to the helmet may not actually break it in one hit. What is it made out of?
Surely not thin glass.
It would require more than one strike, if not many, to actually penetrate his helmet.
Question is, what is his helmet made out of?


:D


@JOE

Perhaps we . . . . . . . . . . . . . hmm . . . . maybe Toc?

 

[kirbywizard]

You guys need to get judges like in MYM to help in deciding the winners. Hopefully people that usually just read the thread, and post every now and then



*goes back to seat*

 

[Beren Zaiga]

@Beren, I suppose.

*no longer going with "bark skin". You suggested a skeleton. I'll go with your suggestion*

Pikmin were able to take the blunt force of the Segmented Crawbster and live.
The ratio behind them actually dying from its dominant claw swings is rooted behind the apparent spikes.

Whenever it swings its massive claw, it swings it high enough that the Pikmin usually only recieve the blunt force of the claw itself, not the spikes.

This enemey is almost the size of Olimar's ship.

The Pikmin have evolved an "exoskeleton" that has enough defense that it protects from the massive swing of a giant crustaceon. Pump them up to 3 feet and their "exoskeleton" will protect from a wooden mallet weilded by children (tone or not).
A mallet swing will not kill any of the Pikmin. Stepping on them won't do squat either.

If, by some ill fated reason, an IC steps on Olimar's suit while he's down, the force alone will not kill Olimar. That's a ludicrious assumption and you know that. He'd have to be made of glass for this to happen. However, if they perform a "squishing" motion, then the cleats may have the ability to tear through the suit. But this comes down to what the suit is actually made out of to actually be credible.

Crawbster is a a bad comparison. Their new height eliminates the comparison because there are no crustaceans of equal height IRL. You are grasping straws now.

The weight from a stamping boot with sharp spikes on the bottom will puncture his suit and kill him, it is not armor, it is a spacesuit, and the suit can be compromised by them stamping their feet on Olimar. Period.

These are what are on the bottom of their boots. These are sharp for traction, and Olimar can be killed with them, and you know it. They can also just stamp on his helmet. A few good kicks and Olimar will die. Period. Metal is harder than glass.

The material the suit is made of is the same as the materials astronauts use. Why?

IT IS A SPACE SUIT. An astronaut's suit. For all the world, that is what it looks like, hell, Olimar's textures in Brawl AND Pikmin suggest this. So don't give the BS that it is not the same, you will be making a fool of yourself.

The Pikmin are not invincible to over 100 pound children, which they would have to be over in order to for their faces to be round as they appear. Stomping on the head of a Pikmin will kill it, face it, embrace it, deal with it. Exoskeleton or not, they can be killed by having their heads stepped on, you are being ridiculous as it is, so stop the BS.

Olimar's "brass knuckles" aren't directly applied to Olimar's fists due to the fact that the Brute Knuckles treasure is over 10x the size of Olimar. What Olimar recieves from this dual treasure/upgrade is a more damaging punch. This does not limit it to being a large glove that's like a knights.

For more effeciency, it would use the material from the Power Glove Brute Knuckles and apply it to his current gloves. It would be applied in a manner similar to the above gloves, in certain set areas (pic gloves lack actual hard material there, but you get the point). The material from the Brute Knuckles can still serve its purpose in this manner.

I am okay with this, it appears more plausible than what you were selling earlier.

Now then:

1. In Ice Climber, the IC's travled to 35 different mountains. Mountains are very large IRL. Especially at the base. They'll run out of food at one mountain, but they got 34 other ones with seals.

2. Exploration is a given. But this still leaves them with only slightly above average muscles for their age.

Muscle Boy says hello. Also, you are taking a key aspect of the IC's character away by disallowing them to climb higher than the lower levels. They are not just hunters, they are explorers, as such, they can explore the upper regions if they so please.

All they have to do is gather food by killing seals, find a way to make wrappings to help preserve the meat and blubber from the local fauna (Mountain bases typically have alot of forestry around). As such, they can supply themselves for a short trip up a ways and back down.

3. IC's can't throw the Pikmin. Knock off, yes, but not throw. Olimar can't throw them at his height, what makes you think the IC's will?

I overestimate the grip the Pikmin have. The fact that their claws will be dug into the parkas mean they won't be getting flung off. Especially when fur/cloth has easy grip. A Pikmin is very savage when it attacks. It is its only goal to kill the opponent. They would be using all of their might to cling on. It also doesn't take long to reach their faces at all. Think of their grip like a tick on human skin. Very tight.

Yet a tick can still be pulled off, just like a Pikmin. Sorry, this is not selling. Those little fingers are inadequate to gripping much.

Also, the fact is they would not get close anyhow, they can be fended off. The ICs severely out reacht he Pikmin by 8-10 inches due to their hammers even if square-cube didn't affect them.

The fact that the ICs have seen herds before (the seals) would mean they are used to seeing groups of game, groups of enemies will not make them panic either.

4. Hammer offers power, but not enough to kill the Pikmin due to their "exoskeleton". Any swing with the mallet will create predictable start-up lag and plenty of cooldown lag. Olimar would only need to anticipate when they'll swing and close in during the cooldown lag. The other climber won't be able to swing their hammer to hit any Pikmin on the swarmed climber. That risks hitting their buddy. The climber would try to pull em' off of the swarmed climber while the other does the same, but that's when stray Pikmin attack the helping climber. Even Olimar can assist. When one climber sees their buddy getting attacked, they will try to help their buddy. This leaves them very open. That means they will get attacked as well.

Also wrong, overhead swing and sweeping swings in opposite directions. They are not situationally blind are you seem to be implying. Olimar can only anticipate on swing at a time. the other can catch him in the head and knock him over. Stomping spree begins, game over.

5. Their arms aren't that weak. They have enough strength to dig into the foes skin and hold a grip. That marks strength. Olimar baits the climbers to swing and dashes in to attack with Pikmin during the cooldown lag from the swung hammer. They will no longer be able to use their hammer effectively because they'll be swarmed. This renders hammer usage insignificant.
Besides, a hammer swing won't kill a Pikmin. At worst, a swing will disorient one.
Pikmin have weight due to their size and "exoskeleton". Olimar can't throw his Pikmin. I find it very unlikely the IC's can pick up the heavy Pikmin by the stem and throw them. I highly doubt they can throw em' either.

Unfortunately wrong, Hammers make the ICs out reach the Pikmin whom would be vulnerable to the Domino effect if they swarmed, knock one over and the rest go with them. This significantly lowers the threat.

Swings from an overhead swing will kill Pikmin, they have much more force than a sweeping swing. Stop acting as if the Pikmin are nigh invincible. They are not, and a hammer can kill them.

7. Cleated shoes to Olimar's ribcage will not kill him. It'll hurt, but suggesting that it'll kill him is ludicrious. Especially when Olimar height is even/taller than the IC's. Weight wouldn't be much different.
As I said before, what material is Olimar's suit made out of?
The material matters if you propose that it'll tear up with cleats.
A hammer to the helmet may not actually break it in one hit. What is it made out of?
Surely not thin glass.
It would require more than one strike, if not many, to actually penetrate his helmet.
Question is, what is his helmet made out of?


:D

Glass. That is what Astronaut visors are made of, they are the closest thing IRL to Olimar's suit, ergo, it is glass.

Also, wanted to being back an old Hail Mary from the Paya playbook: The Square Cube Law.

If an animal were scaled up by a considerable amount, its muscular strength would be severely reduced since the cross section of its muscles would increase by the square of the scaling factor while their mass would increase by the cube of the scaling factor. As a result of this, cardiovascular functions would be severely limited. In the case of flying animals, their wing loading would be increased if they were scaled up, and they would therefore have to fly faster to gain the same amount of lift. This would be difficult considering that muscular strength was reduced. This also helps explain how a bumblebee can have a large body relative to its wings, which would not be possible for a larger flying animal. Air resistance per unit mass is also higher for smaller animals, which is why a small animal like an ant cannot die by falling from any height.

The fact we scale the Pikmin up from 1 cm to 2.5 to 3 feet tall means this applies to them. The Pikmin are screwed and all those points of yours are for nothing. The ICs win because they were around 4 feet tall since the beginning of the MU. The Square-cube law therefore does not apply to them.

Hell, since we brought them up from 1 cm to 1ft, they were screwed.

 

[UncleSam]

ignore this.

 

[UncleSam]

@MArthage:

I was rooting for Zard....

exactly.

and why did you think i let Pit go against canon and have 2 swords

you had to, it would have gone against the OP, we take them from brawl.
vvv

Due to the old thread being abandoned by it's OP, I have taken the liberty of taking over the thread.

This is a contest of real world fights between members of the cast of super smash brothers. This means no magic, no game physics, no ph1r3, and realistic as possible.

also, i get complains all the time of MUs ending too early, now you guys complain about me letting them faster? o_O

yeah early as in like 5 minutes.
this has gone on for a few weeks! didn't we set like a limit or something? wasn't it a week?
EDIT: it's actually been exactly a week, call it JOE.

anywho, imma wait for what Vegeta has to say, in the meantime, Peach > Ics?

you already have half of that equation down bro.

-----

You guys need to get judges like in MYM to help in deciding the winners. Hopefully people that usually just read the thread, and post every now and then



*goes back to seat*

We do have a social group. But JOE isn't ending this for some strange reason.

 

[Nova9000]

Ok, I'm going to try and make this short and sweet for the sake of ending this.
To answer REL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_language#Comparison_of_the_term_with_.22animal_communication.22
This is the point that I am making in regards to the whistle and Pikmin following orders. I can accept that with Louie because he posess the ability to interpret and respond to the gestures made by Oli. Pkimin, on the contrary, do not posess this. They can react to the sound, but the whistling itself doesn't mean "attack" or "follow me", or any other type of command. They would only hear it and be attracted to it. For an example, you can call a dog by the name it's given, and it will respond by coming to you. You can tell it to fetch and it will. You can tell it to roll over and it will. You cannot distinguish these things just by whistling if you are a Pikmin. The penguin example isn't valued because, as you said yourself, it would be very difficult to distinguisgh frequencies. If he did make them just angry all the time, he wouldn't be able to direct the anger towards anything. And if the penguin porject was unsucessful, imagine the Pikmin. And consider this: if Oli and the ICs resemble each other seeing as they all are about the same height, humanoid structure, and big heads, would they really attack them? Remember Pikmin have only seen Oli and Louie so they are not familar with different types of humanoids. That is why I don't buy Oli totally controling the Pikmin.

Unfortunately, I have nothing else to go off when it comes to the heights of the ICs. I used the Polar bear but that was disproved so I did the next best thing. And this is why I kept saying remember that they are Eskimos. They normally have the body type of an ****** and they are shorter in stature, along with smaller extremeties. They would resemble 5-6 yr olds in America, but can pass as 10 yr olds in their neck of the mountain.

They would climb the mountain to avoid the Polar bear, kill seals, and eat eggplant. They may enjoy eggplant very much. And besides, eating the same thing all the time isn't good for you and they need something other than protein in their diet. That explains the rest idea as well.

What would make sense to me would be having an amplifying set inside of his helmet. Quarterbacks have misc inside of their helmets. Astronaunts don't use a button on their suit to communicate. I realize how far we have gotten to miniturize audio devices but it would make a lot more sense if they were protected by the helmet and thus inside the helmet. If the suit gets wet, for example, it will not short circuit. And if he doesn't has a gas in his life support, then how does he stay alive? Gas is the only plausible matter to be used for life support.

I believe curiosity would first take place when the ICs confront the Pikmin. They'll try to observe them and figure out what makes them "them". And since the Pikmin recognize they have a similar body to Oli, they more than likely will not attack on first sight.

This is copied from you:
Pikmin hold an inert aspect in their minds that force them to "follow" their leader.
This is shown in Bulbmin who follow their "leader" no matter what. The only problem with them is that the leader Bulbmin has no method of telling the following Bublmin to attack so they merely follow.
Following their "leader" is shown in ducks as they follow their "leader" (mother) no matter what.
Wild forms of ducklings will even leap from high altitudes to continue after their mother or "leader".
Pikmin also hold this instinct. This is how the Pikmin follow Olimar. It is an inert instinct that is used whenever they are plucked from the ground.
If they aren't plucked, they will eventually unearth themselves and travel in groups.
They follow Olimir due to two reasons:

1. Reaction of sound frequencies

2. An inert "follow the leader" instinct.

Now what makes the Bulbin and Oli so much different in regards to communicating with Pikmin?

Marthage reminded me; Topis gang up on the ICs, so buing outnumbered isn't completely new to them. And the Tpois look more capable of harming the ICs than Pikmin do. And if they were the true savages that you claim they are, then they would go bilndly into battle, win or lose. But then that would mean they fight all their battles, even if they know they cannot win. This is contradictory.

Oh and another thing, remember how you can't take certain things from small animals and relate them to bigger ones because of muscle properties (chameleons tongue v. Yoshi's tongue)? What makes the Pikmin any different? Those stems would become even more fragile and unless they had leaves at the top, the bud/flower would weigh down on the Pikmin. And with the buff, they can't climb on the ICs as you are presumeing because they are too big. The purple Pikmin would be too fat to be of any use (he's just head and stomach with no neck). The exoskeleton you speak of would be ineffective unless they had a cell wall infrastructure. But then that would take away from their flexibility and when it shatters, so does the Pikmin. And exoskeletons can still be crushed; a head shot and the Pikmin are in the purgatory. The teeth on the shoes would rip them apart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crampons
You think a Pikmin would survive that?

Well, so much for short and sweet...

@ JOE!
I appreciate you waiting on my response before making a call on this. And LOL @ me being Vegeta. The Prince says that Peach > ICs because he doesn't feel like getting into it again with that arguement.
Even though I'm not sold on how well she throws bombs and the bombs themselves...

 

[UncleSam]

@ JOE!
The Prince says that Peach > ICs because he doesn't feel like getting into it again with that arguement.
Even though I'm not sold on how well she throws bombs and the bombs themselves...

Prince = Me?

 

[Nova9000]

Prince = Me?

Lol. JOE! called me Vegeta so I was responding like he would. You're the offspring of Chuck Norris, which is >>>>>>>>>>>Prince of Saiyans.
But that is also a point that you had as well...

 

[UncleSam]

you don't want to talk about it either?
k.

 

[Nova9000]

I think that another re-do with the ICs is gonna piss some people off, so I take what I can. If JOE! chooses to, we can postpone that one and move on to some other MU.

 

[JOE!]

so the ICs trump olimar, and Peach blows up the ICs.

score x3:
, ,

score x2:
, , , , , , , ,

score x1:


score x0:
, , , :mewtwo: , , , , /:shiek: , ,
score x-1:
, , ^

score x-2:
, , , , -

score x-3:
v


score x-4:
,
​

new MU in a minute

 

[Nova9000]

Btw JOE!, if we're switching their weapons, then Fox v. Wolf should change as well.

 

[payasofobia]

What are we disscussing now?

Oh, what a coincidence. Came right when the Icey's MUs finished.

 

[UncleSam]

What are we disscussing now?

Oh, what a coincidence. Came right when the Icey's MUs finished.

are you happy? or sad?

 

[payasofobia]

Happy. Iceys defeated Olimar. That was the MU I seriously thought needed a reboot. I knew Peach vs Iceys wouldn't change.

Anyway, Ike vs Ganon. To get it out of the way.

 

[Nova9000]

Well if we do that, we might as well address all of Ganon's MU then (Ike, Link, Bowser). Or we could go in order and discuss Lucario's matches.

 

[payasofobia]

That's fine to me. Vs Ike and vs Link already have established outcomes. (HINT: Ganon loses both)

Vs Bowser may require a little more cracking, but it is possible considering Bowser is a 13 ft turtle and Ganon is a 7 ft man.

 

[Nova9000]

Well we can run it by JOE! and get his opinion; he hasn't changed the OP yet so maybe he'll make it all of the Ganon MUs instead of the Luc ones.

I stand corrected...Luc MUs...

 

[payasofobia]

BTW, I can't remember the last time we had a debate as heated as the Iceys MUs.

That was a seriously long MU.

EDIT: In retrospective....no. It wasn't THAT long.

 

[tocador]

IMO, luc x diddy > diddy wins because of sheer power, just like luc x wario.

Luc wins against mario tho, no scope no mario.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Who wants to bet REL will complain or something?

@ Lucario vs Diddy

What are Lucario's attributes again?

@Lucario vs Mario

^See last @.

 

[Nova9000]

Oh REL is going to complain alright...but he was the only one defending Oli in that one and JOE! made a call on it.
IMO, Luc < Diddy and Luc > Mario. But I wasn't a part in either MU so I could be missing some key things in each one.

 

[payasofobia]

Who wants to bet REL will complain or something?

@ Lucario vs Diddy

What are Lucario's attributes again?

@Lucario vs Mario

^See last @.

Lucario has toned muscles, is very athletic, knows a self taught martial arts unique to Lucarios or something and has dog-like senses.

Diddy is 5 times stronger and agile than a man.

Mario is an average plumber who is highly skilled in multiple areas. May even have weapons other than the Super Scope or the super-heavy hammer. Searching them now.

 

[Emperor Time]

What are we disscussing now?

Oh, what a coincidence. Came right when the Icey's MUs finished.

More like "I came here every day and decided to post when the MU ended"

 

[REL38]

Oh REL is going to complain alright...but he was the only one defending Oli in that one and JOE! made a call on it.
IMO, Luc < Diddy and Luc > Mario. But I wasn't a part in either MU so I could be missing some key things in each one.

You don't know me well enough, do you?

Although I don't agree with the rebuttles you've stated, I simply don't have the time to keep up with it. Why else do you guys think I've been AWOL for most of this day and taken me so long to respond these past few days?

I will drop this due to my inablity to properly give detailed rebuttles in a timely fashion.
You guys lucked out this time


Anyways, Lucario is no martial arts master nor does he know any human martial arts for that matter.

The Mallets the ICE CLimbers have have a RL comparison now. I found it while searching for the weight of one online. Here is my comparison.

This is a Japanese "Kiduchi" Mallet, used for "woodworking, woodcarving, and adjusting blades on wooden planes". The biggest of these mallets weight around 480g, have a length of 355 mm and a head with dimensions of 60 x 150 mm. The one I am talking about obviously, is the one on the right. The one on the left is more like a version the ICs have.

The size of it's head is approximately 300% bigger in width, and its length is an increase of around 150% size. Making it about 450% bigger overall. Bringing it to around to a dimension of 180 by 255mm with a total surface area of 40500 mm. This would increase its weight quite a bit.

The original weight of the largest mallet is 480g (grams) by taking the length of the mallet (355mm)by the area of the head (150*60=9000 mm), I determined that the head of the Mallet make up around 61% of the total weight of the mallet.

480 * 0.61 = 292.8 g, that means that the Mallet head makes up over half the weight. Now take this by 450% and add 187.2g back into it to account for the handle.(the amount needed to fill back in the rest of the earlier 450g)

292.8 * 4.5 = 1317.6 + 187.2 = 1504.8g

Quite the hefty hammer don't you think? Now lets convert it to pounds via the Calculator (On my computer) using the conversions option.

1504.8g -> Lbs =3.31 lbs

Perhaps Mario's mallet is a variation of the IC's mallet?