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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

payasofobia

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This is the bane of Yoshi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Lnq3asIc4

The only means of attack besides tongue whiping (which is stupid and unrealistic IMO) is countered by this.
It uses the opponent's weight against them and sends them flying behind you.

This is extremely easy to do, harms the opponent in sensible spots and puts them in a really bad position.

Body slamming is out.



You could say that Yoshi does not have the shape for it, but look at him carefully and realize that he is still very humanoid.
 

xepherthree

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I dont want to be rude, but dude, in every single MU you just dont say anything. You talk and talk but you dont say anything just spam, and to top it off, you always repeat what paya said thinking he is always right.

Really, dont you have a personal opinion?
:laugh:
That's just the last couple of MUs cause I've been busy. Read ZSS vs. Falcon. I posted alot of things there, and disagreed with paya very strongly. xD ANd I love how you say "every MU", cause I've only posted for like 5 MUs, Some of them were short, and this one I came int closer to the end.
 

REL38

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I'll tell you guys what Lucario CAN LEARN with his walking abilities. Take note I'm humoring you fanboys guys.

He can:

Manipulate his hands to fend off foes. He'd rely off of his spikes to swip at foes. This can't really be used against other predators as he needs to get in close. This type of attack would be mostly used for competing for a mate.

He is very much restricted with leg movement. His legs are strickingly similar to a canine's hiind legs. The only reason he can even stand is with hind leg muscle.

He CANNOT perform any form of kick as his legs won't allow for forward extension of his legs to that degree. He can kick backwards, but that's not very useful.

He lacks a lot of agility. Standing on his hind legs means that a small portion of his feet are touching the ground. That puts more of his weight on those small feet. He can conventionally run forward, but he can't dodge attack effectively.
Attempting to side step to the left would result in him falling over fromt he sudden shift in weight.

Lemme tell you guys something. Lucario's hind legs are just like a canine's. For my example, a dog. A dog can only bend his hindlegs forward and backward. It Cannot move them to the side, like a human does. This severely limits any chance of agility. He can run forwards and turn left, but at a very slow rate. He'd either have to stop and turn or slowly turn with the ever so slight horizontal bending his legs have. He's much better off stopping and turn/hop to change direction.


His only conventional forms of attack are rushing the opponent with a bite or spike slash.


What severely limits any chances of agility or dodging are his hindlegs. They have no left to right bend. Humans can do splits and perform roundhouse kicks because we can bend out legs to the right, left, forward and back. Almost 360 degrees.

Canine's are limited to forward and backward bending of their legs.

This is why Lucario can't learn dodging or side stepping. Much less kicking.

I explained what he can do with his body physique. Add blocking to that. That's all his body will for. Grappling could also be a possiblity, but has little use due to his leg bending restrictions.

That limits him to what I stated above. Those are the only abilities he can posses.




You guys see that?
That little ball is what allows us to move our femur to move in almost any direction. That ball thing allows for that.


A dog's is much more restricted to moving very little to the left and right. This makes Lucario lose much of his agility and dodging capabilities.


REL isn't understanding. LUCARIO'S ARE BORN WITH THE ABILITY TO DO A STRONG TYPE OF KUNG-FU, LIKE PIKACHU IS ABLE TO USE ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!
Do either of these:
Give an EXTREMELY reasonable explaination as to why Pikachu can use electricity and not able to shock it's self, get the electricity to ONLY the cheek and how it produces this electricity. (other than it learned it by being born or from its parents)
or:
Lucario kung-fu gg fool.
Pika CANNOT USE ELECTRICITY IRL.

Why else do you think I never used it during the Ivy MU?
It's impossble.

Exactly how Lucario can't exist or any other Pokemon for that matter.

Just to add. Lucario can't use telepathy or anything like that. It's impossible.
He has no Aura nor can he manipulate it.

I explained above what he can do with his body structure. I didn't make anything up like him being able to perform martial arts. He can use his arms, but not to the extent of martial arts. You guys must understand that. Just cause the Pokedex says so doesn't make it fact. The Pokedex also says Machamp can move mountains. Lucario has 20 points less of Attack in the game. That doesn't mean he can move oil tankers.

You are all taking something that is unrealistic and forcing it to be realistic. The most he can perform are some minor arm attacks similar to martial arts, but not likely as his legs are his biggest drawback.
 

Skadorski

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I dont want to be rude, but dude, in every single MU you just dont say anything. You talk and talk but you dont say anything just spam, and to top it off, you always repeat what paya said thinking he is always right.

Really, dont you have a personal opinion?
He was arguing with Payas and me in ZSS VS. CF, but his posts weren't making sense.
But yeah he isn't always with Payas.
 

Skadorski

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I'll tell you guys what Lucario CAN LEARN with his walking abilities. Take note I'm humoring you fanboys guys.

He can:

Manipulate his hands to fend off foes. He'd rely off of his spikes to swip at foes. This can't really be used against other predators as he needs to get in close. This type of attack would be mostly used for competing for a mate.

He is very much restricted with leg movement. His legs are strickingly similar to a canine's hiind legs. The only reason he can even stand is with hind leg muscle.

He CANNOT perform any form of kick as his legs won't allow for forward extension of his legs to that degree. He can kick backwards, but that's not very useful.

He lacks a lot of agility. Standing on his hind legs means that a small portion of his feet are touching the ground. That puts more of his weight on those small feet. He can conventionally run forward, but he can't dodge attack effectively.
Attempting to side step to the left would result in him falling over fromt he sudden shift in weight.

Lemme tell you guys something. Lucario's hind legs are just like a canine's. For my example, a dog. A dog can only bend his hindlegs forward and backward. It Cannot move them to the side, like a human does. This severely limits any chance of agility. He can run forwards and turn left, but at a very slow rate. He'd either have to stop and turn or slowly turn with the ever so slight horizontal bending his legs have. He's much better off stopping and turn/hop to change direction.


His only conventional forms of attack are rushing the opponent with a bite or spike slash.


What severely limits any chances of agility or dodging are his hindlegs. They have no left to right bend. Humans can do splits and perform roundhouse kicks because we can bend out legs to the right, left, forward and back. Almost 360 degrees.

Canine's are limited to forward and backward bending of their legs.

This is why Lucario can't learn dodging or side stepping. Much less kicking.

I explained what he can do with his body physique. Add blocking to that. That's all his body will for. Grappling could also be a possiblity, but has little use due to his leg bending restrictions.

That limits him to what I stated above. Those are the only abilities he can posses.




You guys see that?
That little ball is what allows us to move our femur to move in almost any direction. That ball thing allows for that.


A dog's is much more restricted to moving very little to the left and right. This makes Lucario lose much of his agility and dodging capabilities.




Pika CANNOT USE ELECTRICITY IRL.

Why else do you think I never used it during the Ivy MU?
It's impossble.

Exactly how Lucario can't exist or any other Pokemon for that matter.

Just to add. Lucario can't use telepathy or anything like that. It's impossible.
He has no Aura nor can he manipulate it.

I explained above what he can do with his body structure. I didn't make anything up like him being able to perform martial arts. He can use his arms, but not to the extent of martial arts. You guys must understand that. Just cause the Pokedex says so doesn't make it fact. The Pokedex also says Machamp can move mountains. Lucario has 20 points less of Attack in the game. That doesn't mean he can move oil tankers.

You are all taking something that is unrealistic and forcing it to be realistic. The most he can perform are some minor arm attacks similar to martial arts, but not likely as his legs are his biggest drawback.

Why wouldn't he have that thing in the pic?
It's not like he doesn't have any skin near it.........................

I like how you're calling us fanboys btw.


And Pokemon are animals, just their own animals.

Lucario's hip thingy w/e looks like he could have that ball.
 

tocador

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It uses the opponent's weight against them and sends them flying behind you.

This is extremely easy to do, harms the opponent in sensible spots and puts them in a really bad position.

Body slamming is out.



You could say that Yoshi does not have the shape for it, but look at him carefully and realize that he is still very humanoid.
You tried saying about the tomoe nage in the WarioxLuc Mu and it didnt work out.

Specially now with yoshi being so awkward to fight with, i mean his body, and his legs, and yeah... He is just to weird to be hit by such a move xP!!!!!!

And when talking about tomoe nage, i think its a too specific of a move for Luc to have learned. Sure he knos how to fight, but i dont think he knows judo SPECIFIC moves and appropriate techquines on how to perform them. So i would count this move out :D.

But yeah, im out for 2night. Bubye.
 

payasofobia

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Lucario belongs to the human shape group.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Humanshape_(egg_group)

Pokemons in this group are fully bipedal and share lots of characteristics with humans.




And Toc, Tomoe Nage was out because Wario was too big for Luke to handle. :laugh:

He doubled him in size, I think...

And besides, Tomoe Nage is extremely easy to do. It requires no training or practice. It uses physics to help you.
 

Nova9000

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REL please end this. Cario has this, regardless of what angle you attempt to approach this from.
 

Skadorski

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REL please end this. Cario has this, regardless of what angle you attempt to approach this from.
REL wont give it up because she thinks

's bite will beat



's anything.
AKA she had an bad Pokemon experiance when she/he was little.
Maybe rabbid Lopunny's murdered his family or Giraferigs picked on her in grade school.
 

REL38

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Lucario belongs to the human shape group.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Humanshape_(egg_group)

Pokemons in this group are fully bipedal and share lots of characteristics with humans.

Screw you Payas!!!!!!!!
:mad:


Okay, so he has mobility of legs, but it still stands that dodging and side stepping can easily cause him to all over. Too much of a weight shift for him to keep balance. That limits the ability to dodge and counter.


@Holo
New gen Pokemon suck.
There's no getting by that.

Lucario lacks agility and dodging abilities. You can't counter that.
 

Skadorski

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Screw you Payas!!!!!!!!
:mad:


Okay, so he has mobility of legs, but it still stands that dodging and side stepping can easily cause him to all over. Too much of a weight shift for him to keep balance. That limits the ability to dodge and counter.
proo f.
His legs are pretty good, he just needs to tip-toe.
 

Nova9000

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It doesn't matter. I've already addressed why Lucario wins but REL ignored most of my points.

150 posts! YES!
 

xepherthree

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REL, what's the point in arguing anymore? Besides, tell me how Yoshi can take down lucario. Yoshi can't run,imo, without tripping due to his giant head; I really don't see how yoshi can have strong enough teeth to bite lucario because when he has ever shown him using his teeth? Lucario at least his spikes and teeth. Even if he can't fight at all, luc would still win. And holo just showed Yoshi can;t even bite XD
 

Skadorski

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It doesn't matter. I've already addressed why Lucario wins but REL ignored most of my points.
Oh yeah REL does that.
I tried to tell him why UncleSam was the ruler of the universe but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
EVEN IF LUCARIO CANT DODGE he can avoid a bite from a animal with a mouth THIS
small




OH MY GOSH how can Yoshi even bite....
His nose................
 

payasofobia

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Screw you Payas!!!!!!!!
:mad:


Okay, so he has mobility of legs, but it still stands that dodging and side stepping can easily cause him to all over. Too much of a weight shift for him to keep balance. That limits the ability to dodge and counter.


@Holo
New gen Pokemon suck.
There's no getting by that.

Lucario lacks agility and dodging abilities. You can't counter that.
I don't know, but in the last MU everyone (even JOE!) agreed that the blue thing was fur, not muscle.

There's also the whole tone thing we repeated in the Samus MU.
 

Nova9000

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He doesn't have teeth because he eats by swallowing with his tongue. JOE! gave him teeth to give him a chance but it's like giving Jiggs lungs; it just doesn't matter because they still fail.
 

Skadorski

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I'm sorry to make another post about something I have said but LOL YOSHI FAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Sorry Yoshi, no biting.
Bye bye om nom nom.
He can't put anything in his mouth.
 

payasofobia

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Actually, yes.

No NOMNOMNOM.


So that leaves him with body slams, which I already explained why they won't work...




EDIT: why can't he dodge? I didn't bother to read the WOTs.
 

Skadorski

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He doesn't have teeth because he eats by swallowing with his tongue. JOE! gave him teeth to give him a chance but it's like giving Jiggs lungs; it just doesn't matter because they still fail.
not the point.
look at his mouth.
yeah
 

Skadorski

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I probably did. XD I generally read WoTs. With exception.
So basically you're saying you don't read WoTs?
lol.


Anyway why the heck is this MU up.
Yoshi can't support it's huge-ness head.
Lucario is teh pwnzor.
Falco has a sniper rifle.
Lucario wins.
 

xepherthree

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So basically you're saying you don't read WoTs?
lol.


Anyway why the heck is this MU up.
Yoshi can't support it's huge-ness head.
Lucario is teh pwnzor.
Falco has a sniper rifle.
Lucario wins.
I meant I read like 90% of WoTs. generally not the uber longs ones made longer with pictures. Like REL's last one.
:suess:

v I read that novas below me.
 

Nova9000

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He can learn all of these things. Babies don't learn how to walk out of the blue just because an adult can. They take time to learn how to balance them selves. The same thing can be said for Lucario, which allows him to walk on 2 legs and be able to perform fighting techniques. And dogs have been known to stand on their hind legs and attack so it is not as far fetched as you may think it is. And Cario can't have tone (lol)? But seriously, if he has been fighting for as long as he has been alive, He would know how to kill an animal. Heck, a spike to Yoshis snout and throat and he's gone.

Yoshi has cheeks yes. But they contain his chameleon like tongue. Dogs have a set of teeth that are diverse enough for a omnivore's diet, just like us. Yoshi wouldn't have that because he never relied on teeth to eat in the first place. They would actually hinder him and his tongue an inconvenience. Which leads me to believe Yoshi wouldn't have the set of teeth to rip flesh. That is the only way Yoshi stands a chance to win. If he tried to crush him with jaws, then he would fail due to Cario being too big to fit in his mouth and the spikes on his body harming the palate inside of the roof of his mouth.

For Yoshi to attempt to do any of this, he would have to put himself in a position that Luc could easily capitalize upon. IE, for Yoshi to grab and "bite" Luc, he would have to position his body in a way facing him since he has no neck (heck, look at his pivot grabs in brawl; all tongue no mouth). Then he would also have to come within strkiing range of Luc to grab him, leaving his vulnerable nose in pimp-slap-spike-range. Cario could also just hold his bottom jaw; Yoshi like many animals, doesn't chew by bringing both parts of the mouth together but rather the bottom jaw brings it to the top jaw for mastication. We operate the same way as well, and there is little Yoshi can do about it. In fact, because the spikes are on the outside of Cario's paws, if he holds Yoshi's bottom jaw down with the inside of his paw, if Yoshi tries to use his weak jaw muscles to close his mouth, his palate would receive the spikes on Luc's paws. If you don't believe me, try this with a dog and see how miserable you'll make them.
 

Skadorski

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I meant I read like 90% of WoTs. generally not the uber longs ones made longer with pictures. Like REL's last one.
:suess:
W/e.
That's what she said.

Anyone want to screw Yoshi further or is it general family chat? ^-^
 

REL38

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I don't know, but in the last MU everyone (even JOE!) agreed that the blue thing was fur, not muscle.

There's also the whole tone thing we repeated in the Samus MU.

If the blue is fur, then how is he standing?
He needs a good amount of muscle to stand.
This still doesn't show that he has more agility or dodging capabilities. His feet are far too small keep balance with sudden shifts in weight.

Stand on your toes and try running, dodging, side stepping and the like. Not possible. Lucario can do some of that, but next to none due to the feet.

Tone has nothing to do with this. Humans train to accomplish tone. Wild animals don't do that. They accomplish this on a lower level, but not to the extents Zamus did.

@Nova

Only reason I didn't respond to your stuff is cuz I was busy with the other Lucario stuff.



Yoshi has cheeks yes. But they contain his chameleon like tongue. Dogs have a set of teeth that are diverse enough for a omnivore's diet, just like us. Yoshi wouldn't have that because he never relied on teeth to eat in the first place. They would actually hinder him and his tongue an inconvenience. Which leads me to believe Yoshi wouldn't have the set of teeth to rip flesh. That is the only way Yoshi stands a chance to win. If he tried to crush him with jaws, then he would fail due to Cario being too big to fit in his mouth and the spikes on his body harming the palate inside of the roof of his mouth.
I brought up the reasoning behind that. Just because Yoshi isn't shown chewing in game doesn't mean he doesn't have teeth. He can have teeth, but not giant fangs like Dino's do. They be small teeth mostly consisting of molar like teeth to avoid the tongue.

"Lucario won't fit in his mouth"
lolwut? He'd bite at his apendages. His arms are the target as Lucario will be extending those.

Lucario getting below Yoshi is when he rams him. This thows Lucario off balance and Yoshi can stomp on his head.




For Yoshi to attempt to do any of this, he would have to put himself in a position that Luc could easily capitalize upon. IE, for Yoshi to grab and "bite" Luc, he would have to position his body in a way facing him since he has no neck (heck, look at his pivot grabs in brawl; all tongue no mouth). Then he would also have to come within strkiing range of Luc to grab him, leaving his vulnerable nose in pimp-slap-spike-range. Cario could also just hold his bottom jaw; Yoshi like many animals, doesn't chew by bringing both parts of the mouth together but rather the bottom jaw brings it to the top jaw for mastication. We operate the same way as well, and there is little Yoshi can do about it. In fact, because the spikes are on the outside of Cario's paws, if he holds Yoshi's bottom jaw down with the inside of his paw, if Yoshi tries to use his weak jaw muscles to close his mouth, his palate would receive the spikes on Luc's paws. If you don't believe me, try this with a dog and see how miserable you'll make them.
Read what I said above. He rams him when Lucario gets too close. Lucario falls and gets his head stomped on. He can try making some slashes while falling, but it'll only cut at best.

Lucario can't limit Yoshi's jaw as he lacks fingers. He'd have to put his arms around Yoshi's entire snout.

Lucario can't counter a ram attack as he lacks agility and dodging capabilities.


@Holo

Add somethiing for gods sake.
Not "lololololollololol gimp city! We Got this even though Ima just restating stuff others said!"

Learn to argue. Insulting the opposition is an idiot move and adds nothing.


EDIT:

Screw teeth.
Ramming all the way.
 

Skadorski

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Ok fine REL.
But explain how

's mouth can fit anything in.
His nose is the biggest debuff I have ever seen.
He'd be better off pulling his nose off.
 

xepherthree

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REL, I can run, dodge and sidestep while standing on my toes. standing on my toes is one of my bad habits, but I can do it just fine. And can you please tell me how Yoshi can ram him? His head is so big combined with no neck he would just fall on the floor.
 

Nova9000

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Yoshi rams.
Lucario backpaws his eyeball.
Back to square one with one less eyeball.

Also, why would Lucario allow Yoshi to run up and ram him? Lucario can just push his head down and stop him in his tracks.

And as far as your theory of a bite, read the above statement. Yoshi doesn't want to be anywhere near those spikes.
 

payasofobia

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If the blue is fur, then how is he standing?
He needs a good amount of muscle to stand.
This still doesn't show that he has more agility or dodging capabilities. His feet are far too small keep balance with sudden shifts in weight.

Stand on your toes and try running, dodging, side stepping and the like. Not possible. Lucario can do some of that, but next to none due to the feet.

Tone has nothing to do with this. Humans train to accomplish tone. Wild animals don't do that. They accomplish this on a lower level, but not to the extents Zamus did..
That may be because my toes are not huge and flat. Like Luke's.



It would have more similarities with standing with this part of your feet:



And these are stats....but still. Lucarios have, at least, average speed. 90 SPD.



And anyway, there are muscles below that layer of fur. We explained all that in the previous MU.

And, at least, he got more muscles than Yoshi.
 

adumbrodeus

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Yeah, you explain to me how a natural born mammal can have steel in its body.

Anyways, he'd have little to no martial arts. Adumb pointed out that through "play fighting", certain animals can attain certain skills.

The first animal that comes to mind are lions. Lion cubs "play fight" with each other to hone hunting skills for the future. But this is instinctive.

Lucario is a mammal that is trying to learn combat techniques that it doesn't know. You don't magically learn martial arts. He's a mammal that can walk on 2 legs. I'd expect him to be an omnivore that eats small game with the occassional vegetation.
Or just make him a carnivore that eats small game.

I see no need for him to learn physical combat aside from mating or something. That can allow for some grappling attacks, but he's gonna wanna end it with his teeth or spikes. His arms are too thin to provide significant blows and kicks are out of the question.
You're missing something, depending on what's instinctively programmed in, he could actually have a rather sophisticated fighting style.


For example, overall, tigers are programmed to have a sophisticated fighting style, (centered mostly around stalking their prey of course, their stalking is where the real sophistication comes into play).


Looking at how he's built, he's presumably semi-intelligent, and he's been illustrated to know various fighting techniques.

It stands to reason that these techniques are instinctive, and honed by play-fighting. Certainly unlike the intellectual rigors of human fighting styles, but presumably quite effective.



That includes kicking, animals kick, especially 4-legged ones, but he's got massive leg muscles, he's built to jump and kick, there's no way that any fighting style evolutionarily programmed into him won't make use of that advantage.
 

Beren Zaiga

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@ Toca

Look here.

Lucario's standing height is 3'11".

Now look at this picture of Mario and Peach.

Now at this pic of Mario and Yoshi.

Looking at the two pictures in sequence or vice versa, you see that Mario is shorter than Peach by at least one or one and a half of his heads. Then looking at Mario on Yoshi, you see that Mario standing side by side with Yoshi would yield him being not too much taller than Mario.

He is probably only two to two and a half-inches taller than Mario.

Now compare Peach to Yoshi, Peach stands taller than Yoshi. Peach is about what the height of a average human female could be in the Mushroom Kingdom.

She is probably around four and a half to five feet tall or bigger by a few inches. Mario is probably around 3 to 3'7" tall by this logic, Which means that Yoshi is most likely anywhere from 3'9" to Lucario's height.

Your size advantage you gave him is therefore false.

@REL

Funny you mention canines since they can be trained to stand on two legs as part of trick. Lucario could have learned to try and balance himself on two feet on his own if it was the best way for him to fight.

In the absence of this, there are still his "fist-ppikes" he has that he could use to maybe backhand Yoshi in the head with after a lunge. Hell, that one on his chest could be dangerous if all of them are sharpened in some way. With a grinding stone of some type.

No Aura for Lucario, that I am in agreement with...or am I? World History really does come in handy when you have an interesting teacher.

He showed us something having to do with a person's spiritual aura (I did this on my brother and it actually worked! He is many times stronger than I am!).

What you do is have a person put their arms out as if standing like a cross. Then tell them to resist you as you try to push them down. They do so. Now take your hand cut them in half with it all the way down to the feet down the middle.

Tell your subject to put their arms out. Low and behold, they cannot resist you pushing your arms down.


So perhaps Lucario having the ability to disrupt an opponent's spiritual aura isn't as far-fetched as it sounds?
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On a related note, if Yoshi bites done on one of Luc's arms, that spike on the back side of his paw will end up piercing the roof of his mouth, or the bottom of it. Biting down on Lucario's arms at all yields potentially fatal consequences for Yoshi as he would bleed himself by alot if it pierces the roof of his mouth.

Yoshi's large head would be hard for him to maneuver around with, he would probably be having neck pain from having support such a large head on a comparitively small neck.

Sorry, I don't see Yoshi haivng much chance of winning at this point.
 

Skadorski

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Skadorski
You can disrupt someone's spiritual aura?
OH MY GOSH THAT IS AWESOME!
Looking on google for stuffs nao.
Edit: I AM OF THE DEVIL
(look at post count)
 
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