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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

payasofobia

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Hey, that's pretty hardcore considering those monkeys have ****ty eyes hardwired into their DNA. And we managed to change that even though we have only been doing gene therapy for what? 7 years?

And even then, there are multiple existing ways of enhancing humans without gene therapy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_enhancement

This is probably out of my usual type of response but, another explanation is that they are super alieens and they had the technology to alter her genes significantly.
 

Memorable_Random_Guy

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wait, did you compare fixing color blindness in a monkey, to giving a person super-athletic prowess that defys her body structure?

o_O

She'd need like evry cell altered in order for all her muscles to warp into a form that'd work like that. Especially seeing as in all pics of her, you can even like see her ribs, and no real musculature. Where is this super-toned coming from?

And i gave him a workable weapon, just liek samus has her's

You gave him a weapon that works differently from reality with the excuse that, then, other characters would be screwed, even though they have working alternatives to their blasters.

I think you should just throw the towel. Pretty much everyone except you and dude above you agree about the outcome.


Or you could give the win to Sheik.
 

Nova9000

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You gave him a weapon that works differently from canon with the excuse that, then, other characters would be screwed, even though they have working alternatives to their blasters.

I think you should just throw the towel. Pretty much everyone except you and dude above you agree about the outcome.
:confused:
I just read about 8 pages of info, spam, and the such. And quite frankly, idc anymore. I could drag this out like I tried Galleom v. Duon, but idc anymore. Falcon is still the man in my book but bird DNA makes you a god(dess). A chick with a C cup and a behind to match has much more toned muscle than a guy with rock hard six packs. He has a 15 second laser now so he will be beaten by the electrolyzer ZSS has that will harm him fatally. So you win; once again I get pwned by the likes of Paya, Rel, US, and now Holo
I meant to put your name down as well; I lose to a lurker.
 

Skadorski

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I REALLY hate using profanity but
WHY THE HELL IS THIS STILL UP?
Falcon's gun does nothing.
ZSS' gun could kill someone.
ZSS might have blood that makes her uber powerfull.
ZSS is probobly stronger than captain falcon.
This is a complete suicide mission.

edit: good it seems like we came to an descision.
 

JOE!

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the laser change takes 5 characters from "meh" to competitive, without giving them silly things like rocket launchers o_O (really, who'd beat wolf? he has a **** rocket launcher and allready went even with snake)

so as of now, they both have decent ranged options, with either kill, or tased then killed.

However, i wanna see exactly why falcon is so disadvantaged in Melee combat. Sure, samus has the cool kung-fu stuff, but she isnt toned like bruce lee (have you seen her pics? no, not -those- pics toc....). Falcon is very mucular, and like nova said:

A chick with a C cup and a behind to match has much more toned muscle than a guy with rock hard six packs
Why again, is falcon essentially useless in melee range? You are making him out to be a lumbering ox, which people with a good physique, are not. Sure, Zamus may be a bit faster, but if falcon can kick like a microsecond slower, but with more mass, isnt that in fact better?

HOLO: "an desicion" rly?

i still have unanswered questions about ZSS that nobody wants to answer outside of "lol she has chozo magik blood so she's stornger"
 

Skadorski

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the laser change takes 5 characters from "meh" to competitive, without giving them silly things like rocket launchers o_O (really, who'd beat wolf? he has a **** rocket launcher and allready went even with snake)

so as of now, they both have decent ranged options, with either kill, or tased then killed.

However, i wanna see exactly why falcon is so disadvantaged in Melee combat. Sure, samus has the cool kung-fu stuff, but she isnt toned like bruce lee (have you seen her pics? no, not -those- pics toc....). Falcon is very mucular, and like nova said:



Why again, is falcon essentially useless in melee range? You are making him out to be a lumbering ox, which people with a good physique, are not. Sure, Zamus may be a bit faster, but if falcon can kick like a microsecond slower, but with more mass, isnt that in fact better?

HOLO: "an desicion" rly?

i still have unanswered questions about ZSS that nobody wants to answer outside of "lol she has chozo magik blood so she's stornger"
Ask away.

and speed>power because ZSS can break bones.
It's like this:
Wooden bat moves faster
Metal bat moves slower (slightly)
Wooden bat hits a glass cup, it breaks.
Metal bat hits a glass cup, it breaks epically.
They both break, but the wooden bat is faster, therefore the Wooden bat is better.
I don't think Falcon is useless in close range but against ZSS power isn't going to matter.
BTW just about every CFalcon supporter has given up.

We have flawed his gun, therefore he wont use it and ZSS still has a gun.
Not having a gun would screw a lot of people, but I guess we can give them a different weapon BEFORE the MU starts the debate.
I'm thinking of making a group of people that post in here.
 

JOE!

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what does it matter if they gave up?

and that is such a silly analogy for this, you are not taking into account: what if falcon hits first?

is falcon reallly that much slower?

what is keeping him from round-house kicking samus the way you all describe her kicking falcon?
 

Skadorski

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what does it matter if they gave up?

and that is such a silly analogy for this, you are not taking into account: what if falcon hits first?

is falcon reallly that much slower?

what is keeping him from round-house kicking samus the way you all describe her kicking falcon?
1. alot.
/threadmu
2. Falcon is not going to hit first. ZSS is faster and has more training for this. She doesn't have a part time job racing.
3. !@#$ yes.
4. You forgot teh 7423R.
 

payasofobia

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the laser change takes 5 characters from "meh" to competitive, without giving them silly things like rocket launchers o_O (really, who'd beat wolf? he has a **** rocket launcher and allready went even with snake)

I already gave you a few reasons why they wouldn't be broken.

Wolf does not have a rocket launcher, considering the rocket launcher in assault has 99 rockets and its energy based.


He has a missile launcher which only has 3 VERY innaccurate shots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3iA5KCa16s

Look at the time it takes for the missile to reach ground.

And then, if he misses the first shot, he would have to waste precious time reloading the second shot. This could let the opponent apply pressure to him and force him to go into melee and abandon the gun.

The launcher sucks in retrospective, but at least he has the better melee capabilities of all the spacies.




In fox's case, the weapon has an extremely high rate of fire and, on top of that, has low ammunition. It will run out fast.

There is also the fact that gatling guns have a high start-up lag and greatly diminishes the speed of the holder. Fox will suddenly be reduced to Ike's speed.




And in Falco's case, he sucks balls in close combat thanks to his bird bones, which are hollow and very frail. He also lacks muscles to run or attack very well.

The rifle would actually buff him enough to the level of the other spacies, but not enough to make him broken because 1) he is very slow so he would hardly get away from the opponent and 2) because he sucks at melee.
 

JOE!

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what do you mean by "!@#$ yes"

is it like an end game boss and the main character here? where the bad guy swings with a silly-unrealistic amount of lag time as you are able to do some atatcks?

no, falcon would/should be able to go at a comparable rate to her. The difference would be nigh unoticable unless his muscles prevented hus joints from working properly or such

@Paya:

wut you talking about? Falco is top tier in melee :p

is the laser buff to 5 characters (including samus) really that big a deal? we have done worse stuff in here (points to jiggs and sonic being allowed to exist)
 

Skadorski

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what do you mean by "!@#$ yes"

is it like an end game boss and the main character here? where the bad guy swings with a silly-unrealistic amount of lag time as you are able to do some atatcks?

no, falcon would/should be able to go at a comparable rate to her. The difference would be nigh unoticable unless his muscles prevented hus joints from working properly or such

@Paya:

wut you talking about? Falco is top tier in melee :p

is the laser buff to 5 characters (including samus) really that big a deal? we have done worse stuff in here (points to jiggs and sonic being allowed to exist)
Oh my gosh that was the worst pun have ever seen in my life.
Back on topic, no.
ZSS has had immense training and fighting when she was THREE. She has been trained to be the elite of the elite of humans, if not stronger. She has prevailed over countless battles, even WITHOUT her suit. Falcon is a guy that works out and might go on a bounty hunt here and there if the money's high. Not to mention he also does racing. She IS faster than him, by a large margin. Falcon is NOT the elite of the elite of humans, he is the bottom of the elite (possably, he looks pretty buff/has skills). ZSS knows how to fight, she is stronger than she looks, and she has a USABLE weapon. Her weapon stunned pirates that have IMMENSE armor. Falcon has nothing but a suit, what would that paralyzer do to him? Yeah.
This basically answered both questions. You and Payas have your nice little tea party.
 

payasofobia

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Yes, because we are flexible to some characters and not to others.



But seriously, those cases are more extreme because, well, they REALLY needed that flexibility to actually take part in this thread.

This should not apply to Captain Falcon since he still has the muscles and experience to go against many characters in this thread. (Fire emblem, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon etc etc etc etc) and win.


The only characters that would absolutely **** him are the ones with realistic projectiles. ( Star fox, Metal Gear and Metroid)

Those are hardly many franchises anyway.
 

Skadorski

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Yes, because we are flexible to some characters and not to others.



But seriously, those cases are more extreme because, well, they REALLY needed that flexibility to actually take part in this thread.

This should not apply to Captain Falcon since he still has the muscles and experience to go against many characters in this thread. (Fire emblem, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon etc etc etc etc)
Explain Fire emblem and Zelda ^-^
Swords/bows ftw
 

JOE!

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look, the last thing i want from ZSS supporters is this:

Evidence that having some muscle will truly slow down falcon to a crippling rate compared to Samsu, who from pics doesnt show tone or musculature of any significance herself. And that 100% of the time, like you say, she will beta him in melee combat.

This includes if he say, grapples and breaks a bone on her, she tries to grapple and do the same, he (pawnch)es her, she punches him, he kick her, she kicks him, etc, etc.

would he really, honestly be that stupid-slow, when he clearly shouldnt be due to his fitness and experience in combat?

@flexibility:

which characters havent we been flexile to? Mario got a **** super-scope, mewtwo has been allowed his pwn-powers (but still came to draws...), etc.

The only chars we havent been felxible to were ones that had either nothing to really give to (peach, squirtle) or had stuff that wasnt loose enough to give (Advanced tech, vs a spell for example)


and ill be back in a bit
 

payasofobia

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Prepare Yourself

You'll Get No Sympathy From Me

I Fight For My- *sword Is Taken*

What!?



Show Me Your Moves


FFFFFFF****!

*Captain Falcon proceeds cleave Ike*
 

Skadorski

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would he really, honestly be that stupid-slow, when he clearly shouldnt be due to his fitness and experience in combat?
I;m not good at reasearch, but great at the situation/tactics/game backround. Go for it, Payas.

Your last paragraph completely lacks what this thread is about. Taking characters from their game and putting them in a real-life situation.
If the makers (w/e lol) of Duon/Galleom would have known they couldn't function right, I'm sure they would have built them by removing the problems. Same thing with Falcon (and Petey really), he wouldn't have gotten himself that buff without tone.
This is EXACTLY the case of his gun.


Payas daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Ur right I take that back.
 

payasofobia

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look, the last thing i want from ZSS supporters is this:

Evidence that having some muscle will truly slow down falcon to a crippling rate compared to Samsu, who from pics doesnt show tone or musculature of any significance herself. And that 100% of the time, like you say, she will beta him in melee combat.

This includes if he say, grapples and breaks a bone on her, she tries to grapple and do the same, he (pawnch)es her, she punches him, he kick her, she kicks him, etc, etc.

would he really, honestly be that stupid-slow, when he clearly shouldnt be due to his fitness and experience in combat?
I'll tell you the truth, without bias and exagerations.


Toned muscles and bulky muscles have the same force behind them because one has more speed and the other has more weight.

Samus's punches and kicks would not be stronger than him's.



But there is still several advantages toned muscles have over bulky muscles.


First of all, speed and flexibility. This is the most significant advantages of all. Bodybuilders are not going to be ultra slow, but they won't gain any speed either. They are as fast as your average person because their muscles are trained to carry weights, not to increase mobility.

Toned people have greater flexibility because of their small, lean shape and for a reason stated in the third point.




Second: Endurance. Having huge, bulging muscles put a great deal of strain on your heart, which greatly diminishes the flexibility it has and therefore it is more difficult to send oxygen to your body. This makes you tire out more easily and faster than people with toned muscles.

Toned people does not have such problems because their lean muscles do not impede circulation in any way because of their smaller size.




Third: lean muscles have more functional mass than bulky muscles. Building your muscles to be ultra bulky makes as much sense as tying a lot of of heavy junk on your bicycle. Toned muscles train the core of your muscles, the functional part without creating extra, useless cells. (extra cells that increase the bulk and are produced by bodybuilding.)


To put it simply, a bodybuilder creates many micro injuries produced by their weight lifting that are latter patched up by a number of cells, that then add up and increase the bulk of your muscles. These new cells do not really contribute to your strenght and only makes you more heavy.

On the other hand, athletes train their core muscles, the functional part, without adding that additional bulk that really weights them down. That's why athletes are better at sports and in physical activities than bodybuilders. They increase their strenght and speed by increasing the efficiency of their core muscles.

And this efficiency shows up with the ability to do greater physical feats than bodybuilders, who are really not THAT stronger than an average person.





How does this affect the MU? Well, first of all, Samus is going to be dodging a lot more hits than Captain Falcon, she will rack up damage faster because of her speed, she is going to endure more physical activity than him because of her healthy heart and she will have similar strenght.

The only advantage Captain Falcon has its the increased resistance to hits because of his bulk, but then again, he is going to get hit more and he will not last as long as Samus because of his weaker heart. In short, his superior defense is nullified.


Samus wins at melee because bodybuilders do not train to do physical activities, they train to be bigger and look good.

At range? Electrolasers kill, lasers don't. Its as simple as that.
 

xepherthree

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Y'know, I still think zamus is gonna win, but falcon is NOT a bodybuilder. Bodybuilders train to lift massive amounts of weight. Falcon trains to fight. You don't think falcon has trained his core muscles at all? That's what you're implying. The majority of things in that WoT were true except that you consider falcon a bodybuilder, causing you to think he has more "bulk", and while they are more visible falcon is not bulky at all. And JOE is right, ZSS doesn't really look that tone.



Look at her stomach. I don't see how there can be ANY muscle there and STILL be that thin. Her legs I can see, her arms to a lesser extent, but nowhere else.
 

payasofobia

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Her fat covers it. You must have no boobs and *** to actually see your muscles. (you must have less than 4% body fat in your body)

This is an exageration, mind you, but it still gets the point home.



You must reach almost unhealthy levels of body fat to look ripped.

And even then, tone does not mean you will get bulky.



This guy broke the world record in speed and his legs don't look all that special.
 

Skadorski

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My gosh.
Payas totally gimped JOE!.
I mean it was like Payas 100% dmg and JOE! only had 30% but Payas was getting JOE! near the edge and JOE! was freaking out and then Payas did Fthrow and JOE! did up-b and Payas grabbed the edge right there.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaang.
 

xepherthree

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Usain Bolt did break the speed record. But his waist isn't that thin. That disturbing dude probably had less then 4% body fat, cause that's really close to zamus and he has no muscles.
The only waist IRL I"ve seen skinnier then zamus's is
(ignoring the weirdness)
And she's been wearing a corset for 14 years everyday. I really don't see how zamus can have toned abs, more then 4% body fat, and have a waist THAT small.
 

Skadorski

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Usain Bolt did break the speed record. But his waist isn't that thin. That disturbing dude probably had less then 4% body fat, cause that's really close to zamus and he has no muscles.
The only waist IRL I"ve seen skinnier then zamus's is
ignoring the weirdness)
And she's been wearing a corset for 14 years everyday. I really don't see how zamus can have toned abs, more then 4% body fat, and have a waist THAT small.
She had her ribs removed so yeah lol.
Your point?
O_______________o
 

JOE!

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My gosh.
Payas totally gimped JOE!.
I mean it was like Payas 100% dmg and JOE! only had 30% but Payas was getting JOE! near the edge and JOE! was freaking out and then Payas did Fthrow and JOE! did up-b and Payas grabbed the edge right there.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaang.
are you like paya's ***** or something :p


anywho, that is what i was looking for (and pissing me off) Paya: An actual explanation of WHY, other than "LOL BECUZ TONED IS BETTAH".

Now, mr ROB Vader brings up a point (that i have brought up a bit as well) ZSS doesnt look *that* toned, and Falcon trains to fight, not body-build. He just looks like abody-builder.

Now, think we can discuss this without going into rage like earlier?
 

Skadorski

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are you like paya's ***** or something :p


anywho, that is what i was looking for (and pissing me off) Paya: An actual explanation of WHY, other than "LOL BECUZ TONED IS BETTAH".

Now, mr ROB Vader brings up a point (that i have brought up a bit as well) ZSS doesnt look *that* toned, and Falcon trains to fight, not body-build. He just looks like abody-builder.

Now, think we can discuss this without going into rage like earlier?
Payas did give you an explination last I saw.
Lol it was just funny and I had to take advantage of it.

Ok let us not disscuss this without rage.
ZSS HAS A GUN THAT CAN KILL WHAT THE HECK IS THIS STUPID MU UP FOR ANYWAY!?!?!?!?!?!
See? No rage. Friendly :)
 

UncleSam

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dude....
Samus and Falcon both hit hard, Samus has the speed advantage and has a better weapon.
Falcon has a chargin his lazor and mass.
IRL speed and better weapons wins.
no denying itif you do you fail at understanding life
 

REL38

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I KNOW I'm gonna regret saying this, but . . . . .
Hey, that's pretty hardcore considering those monkeys have ****ty eyes hardwired into their DNA. And we managed to change that even though we have only been doing gene therapy for what? 7 years?

And even then, there are multiple existing ways of enhancing humans without gene therapy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_enhancement

This is probably out of my usual type of response but, another explanation is that they are super alieens and they had the technology to alter her genes significantly.

How can you suggest the latter and expect that to work?
They have the technology?
Then wouldn't said technology also exist in Falcon's universe to allow for a much more effective laser gun?

I mean, c'mon. That only makes sense if you're going with that >.>


And just to add some redundant points:
Excluding Chozo DNA or w/e, speed difference could very well be small, but significant enough to allow Zamus a better approach.

Muscle velocity in regards to physical attack wouldn't be microscopic in difference, but neither minutes apart. I'd expect a less than a second to half second difference, Samus' favour.

Samus has more meat than I thought in her arms/legs, but I'm only believing more potent attacks if Chozo DNA is implemented.
 

UncleSam

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I KNOW I'm gonna regret saying this, but . . . . .



How can you suggest the latter and expect that to work?
They have the technology?
Then wouldn't said technology also exist in Falcon's universe to allow for a much more effective laser gun?

I mean, c'mon. That only makes sense if you're going with that >.>


And just to add some redundant points:
Excluding Chozo DNA or w/e, speed difference could very well be small, but significant enough to allow Zamus a better approach.

Muscles velocity in regards to physical attack wouldn't be microscopic in difference, but neither minutes apart. I'd expect a less than a second to half second difference, Samus' favour.

Samus has more meat than I thought in her arms/legs, but I'm only believing more potent attacks if Chozo DNA is implemented.
Everything in Falcons universe (to my knowledge) is man-built and we have limitations. We never had recorded history until like what? 5 thousand years ago?
The Chozo had recorded history almost after their creation. They are very knowledgeable, they travel the universe telling other species what they are doing wrong for Pete's sake. I wouldn't be surprised if they had more advanced technology than humans.
look at her power suit.
The paralyzer is probably Chozo tech as well (seems more like Federation but IDK)

EDIT: I'm sorry it's 5000 that's half of what I had said....
even less.
 

REL38

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Everything in Falcons universe (to my knowledge) is man-built and we have limitations. We never had recorded history until like what? 10+ thousand years ago?
The Chozo had recorded history almost after their creation. They are very knowledgeable, they travel the universe telling other species what they are doing wrong for Pete's sake. I wouldn't be surprised if they had more advanced technology than humans.
look at her power suit.
The paralyzer is probably Chozo tech as well (seems more like Federation but IDK)
True.

But allowing advanced technology to explain DNA splicing in regards to Zamus can only mean Falcon would have a more potent laser gun.

I'm not saying "pewpewpew", but something that can burn upon contact. If the humans in Falcon's universe accomplished flying "zingzingzing" race cars, then they'd obviously have advanced current day hand lasers to at least cause some notable damage aside from lighting a simple match.
 

payasofobia

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Usain Bolt did break the speed record. But his waist isn't that thin. That disturbing dude probably had less then 4% body fat, cause that's really close to zamus and he has no muscles.
The only waist IRL I"ve seen skinnier then zamus's is
(ignoring the weirdness)
And she's been wearing a corset for 14 years everyday. I really don't see how zamus can have toned abs, more then 4% body fat, and have a waist THAT small.
Oh. My. God.

****, well, whatever.

First: you need less than 4% body fat to show any amount of muscles in your body. Female athletes have, on average, about 20% body fat:




Toned muscle is not going to show on your body, no matter if you are a super athlete. And it is going to show even less if you are female.


And there is also what I have been repeating for over 9000 times already.




Toned muscles do not show in your body. You are confusing bulk with tone.












TONE IS NOT BULK. TONE DOES NOT MAKE YOU BIGGER. TONE IS NOT BULK.
 

Beren Zaiga

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Want to know what happens when you use rocket boosted car with no tires on rough terrain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn-YyH07Cxs

Like this, but worse.
Four words.

Avionics Computer-Aided Stabilization.

Alot of plane designs need these in order to stay in the air due to their airframe's natural instability. The EF-2000 Typhoon (Simply known as the Eurofighter Typhoon) is so unstable it needs over 180 computers to keep it in the air. If one of them goes out, its instability could send it on a crash course for the ground if the pilot isn't careful.

Its not too much of a stretch to imagine that the F-Zero Machines have a kind of avionic's computer in order to provide stabilization over rough terrain, otherwise the race between Goroh and Falcon in the canyon in GX/AX would nulls immediately, because the game used an advanced physics model if I am not mistaken.

Then again it would anyway because you would need superhuman reflexes to navigate some of the turns.
 

payasofobia

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Hell













Tone is not bulk. You can have huge strenhgt and not have an inch of bulk in your body.


Why don't you get it? :(
 

UncleSam

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True.

But allowing advanced technology to explain DNA splicing in regards to Zamus can only mean Falcon would have a more potent laser gun.

I'm not saying "pewpewpew", but something that can burn upon contact. If the humans in Falcon's universe accomplished flying "zingzingzing" race cars, then they'd obviously have advanced current day hand lasers to at least cause some notable damage aside from lighting a simple match.
Oh so like....
wait a minute...
Have you ever watched "firefly"?
Watch "heart of Gold" and come back to me... even laser guns that don't need charge time suck
 

Memorable_Random_Guy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
384
I am already getting extremely tired of this thread.


This **** won't end until we all say that Falcon wins because FALCON PAWNCH XD
 
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