TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

heres a question:

if it were say, Fox vs ZSS, would you have gone out of your way to say that his laser would not work?

just tossing this out here

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

i highly doubt a taser can match a bolt of lightning.

but anyways, elec affects people differently.

heck, it may take several shocks to kill someone in the electric chair, of the same voltage. Next guy in only takes one shock, or even 3 x as much as the last guy.

Same applies to tasers, some people have been known to just endure, needing up to 2 tasers to take them down. Others collapse within the moment of impact.


Paya:

as are walking space animals, Bowsersaurus-Rexes and ZSS's half bird/half human combo.

But magic is not fine.

Now I am really sure that the Zelda vs Sheik MU should be done again.

 

[JOE!]

sheik would win due to not wearing a dress. we ewent over all the aspects in the match MRG

magic is not fine because it cannot be explained.

A bowser *could* exist biologically, A genetically altered human could exist, hell, a race of humanlike animals *could* exist.

Waving your hand and a fire ball pops out? Doubtful at best

 

[UncleSam]

Waving your hand and a fire ball pops out? Doubtful at best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TvAjGOj-BE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahwy3-k5mEY&feature=related

 

[payasofobia]

sheik would win due to not wearing a dress. we ewent over all the aspects in the match MRG

magic is not fine because it cannot be explained.

A bowser *could* exist biologically, A genetically altered human could exist, hell, a race of humanlike animals *could* exist.

Waving your hand and a fire ball pops out? Doubtful at best

Giant turtles that walk in 2 feet cannot exist, genetically altered humans can exist but not humans with superpowers thanks to blood transfusions with aliens, race of human-like animals is also very unlikely because evolution went on a completely different way from us and would be totally different than how they portray them


I made a long post explaining exactly what you are saying now, you did not payed attention to it and now the post came back to bite you in the ***.


Note that I am not trying to antagonize you with these posts. (I don't know about MRG) But I think this should be brought to attention.

 

[JOE!]

yes sam, those work, but require a DEVICE.

What I said was that nothing was used, just waving their hand. No device, no items, fox only, final des.....






anywho....

 

[JOE!]

, genetically altered humans can exist but not humans with superpowers thanks to blood transfusions with aliens,

do I smell a samus buzz-kill?

(not to sound biased, but you just said she wouldnt be better due to alien blood transfusion)

 

[UncleSam]

That's because it's DNA

 

[payasofobia]

No because we are being flexible enough to allow laser beams that vaporize people into a million of atoms now. Or simply that kill in a single shot.

Or animals that cannot exist.

Or giant stuff that cannot work because of physics.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Can we get onto the next MU please? This Three-four poster run around is starting to bore.

Whomever kills whom at a distance depends on who is the faster 'quick draw' and leave it at that.

 

[payasofobia]

I already explained lots of times why Samus would win realisticaly, without being flexible.


If we go flexible then I think we should separate Sheik and Zelda, make Zelda lose the MU like she was supposed to and redo the Wario MU.

I was already tired of repearing myself last night, I want a new MU.

 

[JOE!]

No because we are being flexible enough to allow laser beams that vaporize people into a million of atoms now. Or simply that kill in a single shot.

Or animals that cannot exist.

Or giant stuff that cannot work because of physics.

see where I'm coming from?

I try to make everybody competitive in this in at least some form, this means allowing animals that shouldnt exist, genetically altered people, and furries.

it's not a stratch to give some of them a weapon that *could* exist with some refinement of technology.


With that said, who do you think would get more kills at range here? Falcon with his lethal shot or samus with her stunning shot?


@zelda vs Wario:

how would wario win vs weapons?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

I already explained lots of times why Samus would win realisticaly, without being flexible.


If we go flexible then I think we should separate Sheik and Zelda, make Zelda lose the MU like she was supposed to and redo the Wario MU.

I was already tired of repearing myself last night, I want a new MU.

I just want Sheik to be made into a separate character again. I don't care about Falcon or ZSS.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

No because we are being flexible enough to allow laser beams that vaporize people into a million of atoms now. Or simply that kill in a single shot.

Or animals that cannot exist.

Or giant stuff that cannot work because of physics.

Still refining that concept of mine. Gotten to the point where its gears connected via Caterpillar Track belts. Just trying to figure out how it could make the arm pivot without the use of machinery in the upper arms (fiber optics excluded).

 

[payasofobia]

see where I'm coming from?

I try to make everybody competitive in this in at least some form, this means allowing animals that shouldnt exist, genetically altered people, and furries.

it's not a stratch to give some of them a weapon that *could* exist with some refinement of technology.


With that said, who do you think would get more kills at range here? Falcon with his lethal shot or samus with her stunning shot?


@zelda vs Wario:

how would wario win vs weapons?

You can't. Brawl and multiple fighting games have shown us that not all characters are viable, and that some are going to suck more than others. (Jiggz and Sonic) You just gotta accept that some characters are gonna lose more than other characters because they are completely screwed by reality.

And hell, I already gave you some ways in which the spacies could actually work IRL. Samus we knew was screwed since the first MU, and that IRL she would lose lots of her weapons and mobility anyway, and that Mewtwo is screwed no matter what we do to him.



And the answer of that last question is simple: Zelda lost, Sheik won, they both fought.

Wario fights against another person.

 

[JOE!]

if i go back on that, we have an odd number, seeing as I condensed the links as well.

as for viability, sure fighting games have had bad people, (like jiggs, sonic) but that doesnt mean we cant include them in this, seeing as we arent technically "stuck" with what the devs game us.


we gotta have some leeway in order to even have characters besides like, peach squirtle and Snake duke it out, this is why i change stuff up on occasion.


As for the current MU, i think it may be time to end it.


Falcon has ranged superiorety in that he has an actual killing option from range, whereas Zamus has a set-up from range, that we dont even know more about other than it "stuns"

Up close, they are well matched, with Zamus having a slight upper hand in that hit-for-hit she will end up being more effective, but she is scrwed if she messes up in this range vs the stronger falcon.

so we have our variables here:

Falcon gets wins by hitting Zamus at range, no real questions asked

Zamus wins by hitting falcon, but then having to close in and follow up after the stun.

Falcon wins by taking advantage of or overpowering Zamus

Zamus wins by simply going bruce-lee on falcon.


Overall, out of 1000 matches I can see this being VERY, VERY close.

however, Falcon's option to fight back in melee, as well as having the superiorety from the start with an actual firearm may outweigh Zamus' options of having to stun, then close in, or simply perfectly kick his ***.

Falcon has a superior, then situational option.

Zamus has an inferior, then situational option as well (she must be on her toes still in melee range, one mess up and she could face broken bones)


This will either be a draw, or like 501/499 falcon due to having a gun to kill from the start, as opposed to havign to rely on a stun to hold him long enough to then go in, and finish.

 

[JOE!]

and I have work, so i will not be here until like 8-9pm...

 

[xepherthree]

@paya

I'm pretty much done arguing with this MU, I'm just really wanna see who wins. But why not? If we were going by uber logic, why do you think JOE would even bother with them? In an earlier post, I said that a third of the characters would virtually be out of the competition on fighting ability alone, and then someone else pointed out that all the pokemon and a bunch of others wouldn't be able to physically exist, then that leaves less then half of the characters. Why not just name it "The deadliest human brawler who's abilities or fighting styles don't go around the laws of physics aka Snake!"

 

[payasofobia]

stuff

You completely ignored my posts about muscle and strennght.


There is a huge range of weights for cars.

Small cars can be fairly light for example the Smart Fortwo only wieghs 1,852 lbs (0.9 tons) while the 2008 Honda Civic's Curb weigh is 2,628 lbs (1.3 tons). Larger cars like a 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis weighs in at 4,039 lbs (2.0 tons), going up to a H2 Hummer which weighs in a a collosal 6,614 lbs (3.3 tons). So they vary significantly in weight.


Scientists at Swansea University have discovered the instantaneous force of a champion boxer's punch equates to 3.5 tons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/6529755.stm

This is muhhamad ali, who had incredible tone.

ZSS got real tone, and her hits have enough force to break Falcon's neck.


I don't know why you keep saying that Samus needs to follow up with another hit....



And if you were to separate Sheik and Zelda, then separate Young link and give him the weapons he uses when he is a kid (slingshoit, boomerang etc)





I don't get why you keep saying that Samus must follow up with a hit when a single punch

 

[adumbrodeus]

Why is nobody talking about tactics?

Sheesh, this SHOULD NOT be broken down to a quick-draw competition, because if that happens, then they'll both discovered each other at the same time, that would be a tie-breaker item because it would decide a tiny minority of matches.

 

[payasofobia]

Exactly.

I have explained many times that Samus have proven to be way more skilled than Falcon.

But for some reason most people think that Falcon is more skilled than her because he can shoot a dinosaur who was stupid enough to not shoot Captain Falcon when he could.

Or that bulky people are stronger or equal than well toned people.

 

[Skadorski]

Why is nobody talking about tactics?

Sheesh, this SHOULD NOT be broken down to a quick-draw competition, because if that happens, then they'll both discovered each other at the same time, that would be a tie-breaker item because it would decide a tiny minority of matches.

ZSS has the advantage at the begining tho because she starts out with the gun in her hand.

Also, ZSS took Wolf's scouter so she knows Captain Falcons power level.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Exactly.

I have explained many times that Samus have proven to be way more skilled than Falcon.

But for some reason most people think that Falcon is more skilled than her because he can shoot a dinosaur who was stupid enough to not shoot Captain Falcon when he could.

Or that bulky people are stronger or equal than well toned people.

This MU has been absolute BS.

 

[Skadorski]

This MU has been absolute BS.

"My character is losing... but since I am the OP I can change the rules of the entire thread to make him win."

omg this.
I have been saying this from the very begi- I mean about 6 pages in.
JOE! is going insane.

 

[xepherthree]

omg this.
I have been saying this from the very begi- I mean about 6 pages in.
JOE! is going insane.

And paya isn't?

 

[UncleSam]

insane digging to nerf everybody happens every few debates.

 

[Skadorski]

And paya isn't?

Look.
It seems like you arn't seeing what is going on here.
We are people who are disscussing who would win the match.
JOE! is the Original Poster who choses who wins.
JOE! has changed the rules so Captain Falcon has a better gun after ZSS was winning and we found out his gun is useless.

 

[payasofobia]

And paya isn't?

I don't make the rules. I also don't make up stuff. What I post is real stuff.

And again, I never participated in any ZSS MUs. And I only participated in one CF MU, but my post came too late to do anything about it. In fact, I even tried to apply the same nerfs I am applying to CF now.

It's not my fault that CF ended up being screwed by reality.

 

[xepherthree]

Look.
It seems like you arn't seeing what is going on here.
We are people who are disscussing who would win the match.
JOE! is the Original Poster who choses who wins.
JOE! has changed the rules so Captain Falcon has a better gun after ZSS was winning and we found out his gun is useless.

Actually, I do.
But personally, I believe that some of stuff Paya said is BS.
The muscle tone stuff is BS, I know someone posted a formula kE=1/2*m*v^2, with m= mass and v= velocity. ZSS only doesn moar damage if falcon's leg is slower. It's not only about velocity. While falcon's leg muscles may not be toned, they weigh more, so mass is more. If ZSS and falcon move their legs at the same speed, falcon does more damage. Or it was probably f=ma. Regardless, unless falcon moves his legs substantially slower then ZSS's, falcon hits harder.

And I do know JOE is making stuff up, but to an extent. If ZSS is allowed to have a friggin electrolaser in the size of a pistol, even though ZSS's paralyzer is not 96% speed of light in zero mission or brawl, and falcon can't have a gun that is more then a magnifying glass with sunlight going through it, I think you're too heavily rooting for one character. I won't lie when I say that I'm hoping for falcon to win this match, but personally por both paya and JOE your bias isn't letting you see things clearly.

 

[payasofobia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)

 

[Nova9000]

I get back from church and see this malarkey...
First off, Paya neva answered all of my questions I presented to him last nite. These include:

-They are both in shape. Like Marthage said, have you considered that maybe Falcon is tone for a male?

-ZSS is STILL HUMAN, regardless of whatever is in her blood. She will not take pain well regardless of how much you may think she's a god.

-The anatomy of a male is stronger than that of a female. Matter fact,
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/File:Samus_SSBB8.jpg
Show me all this "tone" ZSS has if she has on a skin tight outfit. To me, it looks like she was trained for speed (not saying that she isn't strong) but has too much of a body to have toned muscles. If she were as strong as you say she is, it would show and become a lot more obvious in her outfit.

-How is she going to attempt to beat someone who is obviously stronger than her? And you still haven't acknowledged the fact that ZSS can't take a hit.

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_suit_samus#Fictional_biography
From what I've read, her Chozo blood gave her agility and resistance to the environment. Where in the world does this "god-like strength" come from? And am I the only one that finds this insane? She probably has bird flu because of it. And a actual blood transfusion between different species is canon; The host's (human)blood would reject the other species (Chozo) blood. Heck, human blood attacks human blood if it isn't matched correctly which is why we have blood types. And you want me to buy she survived a transfusion from an extinct species of bird like creatures? Even Sam can't survive that.

-Next, I still stand by paralyzer=\= electrolyzer. The thing is, the paralyzer has certain effects. By making it a electrolyzer, it become more than aparalyzer. In fact, paralyzer< electrolyzer. So by changing what the item is, you alter the effects. The same arguement was made about pokemon, for example (pika v. rat, cario v. jackal, ect.) Based off the past, we call things what they are.

-As far as JOE! changing what the weapons do, he has all the right considering it was the same thing Paya did. Having a state-of-the-art laser is real considering the era in which he is from. And he fried a lizard. The lizard looks like he can take 10x more pain than ZSS. And with one shot he fried him, so ZSS being hit will render her fatally hurt, if not dead.

-ZSS has to hold her gun the entire time; how effective is she going to be when it comes to melee if she has to hold it the entire time? She won't be too good at it because she has no holdster like Falcon does. This can also be applied to defending herself.

ZSS will lose to Falcon 550-450. I have to be at work in an hr so I'll respond when I get off around 11.

 

[UncleSam]

If you think about it the Falco vs. Falcon wouldn't have changed because their guns would both have been equally nerfed.

 

[Skadorski]

Actually, I do.
But personally, I believe that some of stuff Paya said is BS.
The muscle tone stuff is BS, I know someone posted a formula kE=1/2*m*v^2, with m= mass and v= velocity. ZSS only doesn moar damage if falcon's leg is slower. It's not only about velocity. While falcon's leg muscles may not be toned, they weigh more, so mass is more. If ZSS and falcon move their legs at the same speed, falcon does more damage. Or it was probably f=ma. Regardless, unless falcon moves his legs substantially slower then ZSS's, falcon hits harder.

You are right.
But this brings up what I have said many pages ago that you don't understand: they will both kill in one hit.
Oh heck yes Captain Falcon is going to hit harder, that's not even a question, but it wont matter.
It's like this:
You train in martial arts until you can break EVERY BONE in the human body, but then you stop taking lessons.
Now, your best friend also took martial arts and he can break every bone in the body, but he keeps getting stronger until he can break walls.
If you both fight, strength wont matter. Both of you can break each other's bones.

Also, Payas isn't the OP maker, and he can't make "changes here and there."
JOE! has given Falcon a boost because he found out Samus was winning.

 

[payasofobia]

Actually, yes. In that case the win would have gone to CF for the same reason: he is better at close combat because of Falco's hollow bones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)

 

[payasofobia]

I get back from church and see this malarkey...
First off, Paya neva answered all of my questions I presented to him last nite. These include:

-They are both in shape. Like Marthage said, have you considered that maybe Falcon is tone for a male?

-ZSS is STILL HUMAN, regardless of whatever is in her blood. She will not take pain well regardless of how much you may think she's a god.

-The anatomy of a male is stronger than that of a female. Matter fact,
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/File:Samus_SSBB8.jpg
Show me all this "tone" ZSS has if she has on a skin tight outfit. To me, it looks like she was trained for speed (not saying that she isn't strong) but has too much of a body to have toned muscles. If she were as strong as you say she is, it would show and become a lot more obvious in her outfit.

-How is she going to attempt to beat someone who is obviously stronger than her? And you still haven't acknowledged the fact that ZSS can't take a hit.

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_suit_samus#Fictional_biography
From what I've read, her Chozo blood gave her agility and resistance to the environment. Where in the world does this "god-like strength" come from? And am I the only one that finds this insane? She probably has bird flu because of it. And a actual blood transfusion between different species is canon; The host's (human)blood would reject the other species (Chozo) blood. Heck, human blood attacks human blood if it isn't matched correctly which is why we have blood types. And you want me to buy she survived a transfusion from an extinct species of bird like creatures? Even Sam can't survive that.

-Next, I still stand by paralyzer=\= electrolyzer. The thing is, the paralyzer has certain effects. By making it a electrolyzer, it become more than aparalyzer. In fact, paralyzer< electrolyzer. So by changing what the item is, you alter the effects. The same arguement was made about pokemon, for example (pika v. rat, cario v. jackal, ect.) Based off the past, we call things what they are.

-As far as JOE! changing what the weapons do, he has all the right considering it was the same thing Paya did. Having a state-of-the-art laser is real considering the era in which he is from. And he fried a lizard. The lizard looks like he can take 10x more pain than ZSS. And with one shot he fried him, so ZSS being hit will render her fatally hurt, if not dead.

-ZSS has to hold her gun the entire time; how effective is she going to be when it comes to melee if she has to hold it the entire time? She won't be too good at it because she has no holdster like Falcon does. This can also be applied to defending herself.

ZSS will lose to Falcon 550-450. I have to be at work in an hr so I'll respond when I get off around 11.

I already answered all of your questions before, and some of your points are very silly.

If you really want me to answer, just tell me and give me some time.

 

[xepherthree]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)

So then it was f=ma. My bad.

Three approaches to mass and force units
System Gravitational Engineering Absolute
Force (F) F = m·a F = m·a/gc = w·a/g F = m·a

 

[Skadorski]

Nvm Payas got it.

 

[UncleSam]

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_suit_samus#Fictional_biography
From what I've read, her Chozo blood gave her agility and resistance to the environment. Where in the world does this "god-like strength" come from? And am I the only one that finds this insane? She probably has bird flu because of it. And a actual blood transfusion between different species is canon; The host's (human)blood would reject the other species (Chozo) blood. Heck, human blood attacks human blood if it isn't matched correctly which is why we have blood types. And you want me to buy she survived a transfusion from an extinct species of bird like creatures? Even Sam can't survive that.

actually I can because it's not blood it's DNA
how many times have I said this?

 

[xepherthree]

You are right.
But this brings up what I have said many pages ago that you don't understand: they will both kill in one hit.
Oh heck yes Captain Falcon is going to hit harder, that's not even a question, but it wont matter.
It's like this:
You train in martial arts until you can break EVERY BONE in the human body, but then you stop taking lessons.
Now, your best friend also took martial arts and he can break every bone in the body, but he keeps getting stronger until he can break walls.
If you both fight, strength wont matter. Both of you can break each other's bones.

Also, Payas isn't the OP maker, and he can't make "changes here and there."
JOE! has given Falcon a boost because he found out Samus was winning.

You're right, I was just bringing up the point that I don't get why all the people who are in ZSS's favor are saying how JOE is making stuff up, but paya isn't. Don't criticize the creator if you won't criticize your own man.

 

[UncleSam]

Samus' Paralyzer goes pew pew.
a taser goes bzzt.
Falcon's laser pistol goes peeeeeeeew.
a gun goes bam bam.
they are all different.

a four year old could understand this.