Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion

[soap]

sooo...

mewtwo is a pretty big target for zelda's foot is what i always thought.

o man battle of the teleporters i cant wait

 

[KAOSTAR]

i dont want to take your money OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Thats too cute lol. Boozer is just too cute. Get ***** lol!!!! m2's story lol WHERE ARE YOU AT?!?

 

[Taj278]

M2 Destination.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i remember shadowclaw 1.5 where you were crew battling... whoever that was

you took the entire crew

and they kept taking you to final

and papa dave was just like WHY DO THEY KEEP TAKING HIM TO HIS BEST STAGE

good times good times

 

[DtJ Jungle]

That's not recorded

is it.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

nope you had to be there unfortunately - shadowclaw 1.5 was probably my favorite in the shadowclaw series too

 

[Taj278]

i remember shadowclaw 1.5 where you were crew battling... whoever that was

you took the entire crew

and they kept taking you to final

and papa dave was just like WHY DO THEY KEEP TAKING HIM TO HIS BEST STAGE

good times good times

It will forever remain in our hearts.

I hope to do it again sometime.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Is this a detour from character matchups to discuss stages maybe? lol

I love upthrow to fairs >**** on FD lol

but yoshis m2 moves just so fast along all the surfaces. same with FOD but sometimes the platforms **** you over because of m2s biggness.

Dreamland is my favorite as far as comfortability. Higher killing percents and you can use the sexy *** recovery to edgeguard way the **** out there.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Zelda... hmmm. i fear Zelda as Mewtwo more than Sheik... simply because she can hop there and toe forever, and your such a big *** target that it'll eventually connect. If you can get past the toe, then you can win, cause Mewtwo is better in almost every other way...

 

[KAOSTAR]

so you shouldnt be afraid then lol.

 

[Shadow Huan]

"Afraid" may be too strong a word...

But that toe is a pain in the ***... and the only reason that Zelda is above M2 in the teirs. Think about it.

Mewtwo has a longer WD, a better recovery, better priority on the majority of his moves, better grab range and better throws, and excluding the kicks, better and faster air attacks.

What does Zelda have besides the kicks???

A lower duck. A very fast D-Smash. Usless B moves with massive predictability in the case of Din's Fire and NO knockback in the case of Nayru's Love. Well, at least reflected projectiles from Zelda hurt the foe... >.<

Seriously, it's the kicks that tip the balance. Get past the Lightning Kicks and she's screwed unless she goes Sheik.

 

[soap]

so does taj let us muse around all week before he writes out his views on the matchup?

jus wondering what the format has been.

 

[Taj278]

Pretty much. :D Sometimes I chime in a lil bit when prompted, but no one really said much yet.

 

[TemPesT-]

i didn't wanna make a whole new thread. so i'll just ask in here <_<

are djc nair's helpful for anything other then flash? i try to use them sometimes after dtilts to look cool in friendlies...but is there ever actually a good time to use them?

 

[Taj278]

Its uses are pretty limited, but I'll be showing some of its uses in Shadow Claw 3. :D

 

[KAOSTAR]

I do them every now and again lol. Whatever lol. Sometimes I can get them off oos. whatever lol.

Im just ****ing bored today.

I think its cuz zelda is boring and not tight like m2.

matchup, dont get hit with the dam bair or fair and her other **** suck anyway so dont worry about it.

 

[Taj278]

ZELDA

Magic Number 102%

Initial Impressions- *Yawn* This match is pretty boring. You can't lose focus though, Zelda's aerials are enough to throw off your game if you get with it at low percentage. She can't really do anything to you, but you'll also have a tough time getting inside if she plays it correctly. Though the stages are double edged for you, depending on how you feel about your ability to dodge her finisher aerials, you probably want to strike Dreamland and play on Yoshi's Story, PS, BF, and FD.

The reasoning, of course, is to get early up throw/forward air KOs on Zelda and rely more on your ability to avoid getting kicked to win the match. This is one of the few match ups where being "tall" and considered "big" really becomes noticeable to me. It's very annoying if you feel like you're getting hit for no reason.

OFFENSE: You're probably going to use Shadow ball to slowly close in on Zelda. Depending on the person you're up against, you're either going to slowly pin her while avoiding her aerials. On the ground, you should have her beat. You're much more mobile, so you never have to fully commit to any attack. You can pretty much always play a hit and run game if you have to, and since your basic combos pop her up, this is probably where you're going to score the most damage.

Zelda has very little priority underneath her, so coming in with down tilts, and using moves like up throw, despite your initial intuition, may be more beneficial than down throw since it keeps her at forward/back air height at your head. Up tilt/up airs/ neutral airs will probably be your damage dealers.

You probably want to stay crouched to be as low as possible, to force the Zelda to adjust her aerial timing, and be ready to slide in while she lands. When she's on the ground she is most vulnerable. Her grab range is actually SLIGHTLY better than yours, but it seems to come out more slowly than most other grabs. She will throw out her down smash as a "get off of me", but its knock back is pretty bad against a Crouch Cancel. Forward smash can also be difficult to get around. You approach is probably going to revolve around your shadow ball to force Zelda to shield or jump, and from there you'll probably plan to shield pressure, grab, or slide in as she lands.

DEFENSE: You can doing anything out of shield to get away from her, but you don't really have much to counter the sweet spot aerials. This match is more likely to come down to your offense. You can get away from this character very easily, she can't really kill you unless you stand there and get hit, or you become predictable and teleport/run/WD into her kick range. Most of her moves are kind of designed to be spaced against you or push you away. She's a very defensive character herself, and your projectile is better than hers, so as long as you don't fall into her pace, you should be fine.

I don't really know what else to say... Aim your shield high if you're forced to shield her aerials, use confusion/disable sparingly, and play as intelligently as you can. As long as you're smarter than the Zelda, you should be fine.

EDGEGUARDING: Zelda is pretty floaty, so her horizontal recovery is decent. She can cover her natural recovery pretty well with aerials. Back throw > edgeguards are usually to bait aerials and force her to use Up B. You always want to take the ledge against Zelda to force the laggy Up B. If you ever force Zelda to recover directly vertically, then you pretty much have the stock. So keep that in mind if she can barely make it onto the stage. Take her cookies.

OVERALL: Don't get kicked. Don't get grabbed. Don't try to just rush her down unless you're certain you won't get caught with a kick to the face. Try to calculate your approaches to minimize all risk of getting hit by those kicks. You're light, so they will kill you as quickly as Falcon Knees.

If anyone has any questions or anything to add, feel free to post.

Otherwise... This week is NESS

 

[The Phenom]

Has the proposal of moonwalking to upB, been discussed? If it has can you guys link me to where it has so I can read it. If it hasn't, can we discuss some stuff about this combination of moves.

I could imagine it's uses, but it would be nice to have your input so I can acquire knowledge of it's use that I don't have yet.

Thanks!
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!! NOW WITH 10 MINUTES WORTH OF EXCELLENT MR.GAME AND WATCH COMBO MATERIAL.
-Do you believe in Inter dimensional beings???

 

[KAOSTAR]

I take it you mean the shorter teleport right?

PRetty much whatever you can think of. We all know that shorthop teleport has low lag or whatever I dont actually know the figures maybe its no lag , but being able to change the distance can be useful at times.

Like teleport a short distance and they will think u are goin behind them.

ive done it.=a good laugh and a grab at least lol.

 

[Cia]

I came the Mewtwo boards expecting to find an 'Ask Taj stuff.. about stuff' thread. but since there isn't one, i'll ask here.

What do you think of CC > Disable? i recently MM'd plairnkk's sheik with M2. and even tho i didn't win, i got really close because of CC > Disable > grab combos

 

[Taj278]

It's not my style. I tend to just space the disable to avoid attacks anyway. If that's what you need to do to land your grabs, then by all means do it. The only immediate problems with it would be of course percentage dependency and how fickle Disable is. Sheik crouches the move and a trying to CC disable a move like down tilt and possibly even down smash could only yield negative results.

For future reference, Taj is the best Mewtwo is the Taj Q&A thread, but the M2 boards don't really get much traffic, so you can really just post here or there. I don't mind. :D

 

[The Phenom]

I take it you mean the shorter teleport right?

PRetty much whatever you can think of. We all know that shorthop teleport has low lag or whatever I dont actually know the figures maybe its no lag , but being able to change the distance can be useful at times.

Like teleport a short distance and they will think u are goin behind them.

ive done it.=a good laugh and a grab at least lol.

Thanks for the idea. Also I just thought about what if I did that and had a full shadow ball charged. I'm off to experiment =). Be back later.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

ness is ugly so dont lose to him

/moderator

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thanks for the idea. Also I just thought about what if I did that and had a full shadow ball charged. I'm off to experiment =). Be back later.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

I think its better used with confusion even for that matter or grab. It takes a little time to shoot the Shadow ball so they should have caught on by then even if its the first time.

Moonwalking to shorten the teleport can just mess up an opponents spacing. They may think u are goin farther and turn around or expect the offense from the wrong side. Grabs and confusions are unblockable so there is no way you shouldnt hit, even if they shield.

but Anythings possible with m2 lol

maybe they think they are smart and try to like bair oos and get hit with a shadow ball lol.

give it a try, let me know how it turns out.

@Vanz-Disable is slower than grab anyway. Why dont u just CC grab instead. I think its like option D or something and there are better safer ways to get a grab off.

 

[The Phenom]

I think its better used with confusion even for that matter or grab. It takes a little time to shoot the Shadow ball so they should have caught on by then even if its the first time.

Moonwalking to shorten the teleport can just mess up an opponents spacing. They may think u are goin farther and turn around or expect the offense from the wrong side. Grabs and confusions are unblockable so there is no way you shouldnt hit, even if they shield.

but Anythings possible with m2 lol

maybe they think they are smart and try to like bair oos and get hit with a shadow ball lol.

give it a try, let me know how it turns out.

@Vanz-Disable is slower than grab anyway. Why dont u just CC grab instead. I think its like option D or something and there are better safer ways to get a grab off.

Your right. Shadow ball isn't the best to do after a moonwalk. I'll take your advice.

I'll just short hop bair and DI away from opponent to baby shadow balls; that seems like a defensive maneuver.

 

[Little England]

Everyone should watch Taj's most recent videos on youtube in case you haven't seen them. First youtube video of Taj vs a Peach singles and a cool match against forward's sheik.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zijDjmepKY&feature=channel_page vs Forward (Sheik)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDedxPwQAA&feature=channel_page vs Forrest (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fulPsZlqt9k&feature=channel_page

Good stuff here!

 

[DelxDoom]

LOL at teleport stall

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Taj, (excuse me for my lack of knowledge of pro players) is that Forrest guy a well-known peach? Or was he just some first-round scrub, because it looked like you just manhandled him both matches.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Your right. Shadow ball isn't the best to do after a moonwalk. I'll take your advice.

I'll just short hop bair and DI away from opponent to baby shadow balls; that seems like a defensive maneuver.

fosho. lol


glad to see new vids up

 

[Taj278]

Taj, (excuse me for my lack of knowledge of pro players) is that Forrest guy a well-known peach? Or was he just some first-round scrub, because it looked like you just manhandled him both matches.

He's a player from Tucson (2 hours away from me). He's definitely not a Pro Peach, but in the local scene I think he does ok. He's not a top 10 in AZ player though, and it obviously shows, but since he plays with some of the other experienced Tucson players, he's not just "first round fodder," since he got 13th at the last tournament.

As far as top Peach players in AZ goes, it's pretty much just Light's Peach.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Hey... I was screwing around in training mode and I noticed that sometimes a fully charged D-Smash seems to do an extra 1% that the game doesn't pick up on.

eg. Dummy is at 100%. I charge up the attack and release it. Damage increases to 121%. Am I the first to notice this?? O.o

EDIT it seems to be random at best... but I know I'm not seeing things...

 

[The Phenom]

Watching those matches was like going to heaven =D aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!! I love every moment of them!

edit: @ Shadowballs, yeah, something similar happens with the side B of game and watch. It goes from 32 to 33 damage. LOL 32 and 33 are symbolic numbers of the Illuminati hahaha. I have no clue why this happens though =\

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hello Mewtwo Forum.........It's been a long time since I been here.. Last thing I remember is me leaving for the Air Force.. What's the Melee life like... Everyone still enjoying M2. Hope so!..

Taj - Tony.. whatever you wanna be called.. =p good ****.. i'm lookin forward to SC III looks tight.. For the rest of the M2 community, glad to know that everyone shows high interest still in him!........ Only thing close to m2 i get to play in is Pokemon.. (which i'm 33-0 right now) WOOT!! so yeah

keep up the awesome work Taj, I miss playing you and the AZ crew.. Texas seems kinda dead in melee that is.. I miss melee! well yeah keep it up everyone!

 

[KAOSTAR]

haha just noticed that taj has that AZ anger tag lol.

 

[Shadow Huan]

It's not like Forrest is a BAD Peach... he seems to have an idea of what to do.

But he was clearly not ready for Taj's Mewtwo by any streach of the imagination...

@ the Phenom: random glitch I guess...

 

[Taj278]

Yeah... by the lack of discussion going on, I think everyone probably feels the same way about the rest of the characters. I don't feel like posting on them, but if they're randomly brought up they'll be posted when the time comes. Otherwise, everyone can ask questions, comment on any match-ups, scenarios, ideas, combos, tips, and tricks.

 

[soap]

ya, i don't care about the rest of the character matchups.

first post is pretty **** though, some good stuff.

like i didn't know to wait till the apex of my full hop after the full hop to fair spacies after uthrow, that helps alot

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea, the rest of the characters are bleh!

Anyone find m2s jab reliable in any sense. Ive found it useful against ICs and big motha fukkas. I use it to thunder into a disable into a dsmash on spacies but it seems only good if ppl dont expect it. other than that you can get ***** using it.

any thoughts?

 

[Shadow Huan]

I have a question... why the **** is Bowser considered better than Mewtwo??

 

[KAOSTAR]

its a common misconception