elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Um. Pikachu has the strongest usmash in the game (outside of Sheik's tipper, I believe). So.
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Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
*coughs* yeah... I forgot that move... >.< sorry about that.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Pkachu cant beat m2 just cuz he lost in the movie. Keep good spacing and have good DI and this should be pretty easy. As long as ur not getting upsmashed then its ok to get grabbed.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Yeah, anyone wanna test nair usmash/dthrow usmash at like... 60-80%?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Ok buddy, you see thats why we have shields. as far as the d throw upsmash try to DI if ur hit but my really as m2 you shouldnt be gettin grabbed by a pikachu. You should easily out grab and be able to psuedo chainthrow that little rat.
So that doesnt usually happen to me. I actually play m2 lol
So that doesnt usually happen to me. I actually play m2 lol
soap
Smash Hero
saying u don't get grabbed is dumb
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
If you read my post I say that I dont usually get grabbed by pikachu.
This is not due to an unimaginable amount of skill but simply that m2 has more range from the dtilt than pikachu and pikachu has [I think] the shortest grab range in the game whereas m2s is just shy of marth and roys.
Yes a good pikachu player will get some grabs off but a good m2 player can limit that with moderate spacing.
Not to mention I said if you get hit try to DI. Thats assuming that he was saying that if you get dthrown at 60-80 the upsmash is coming and is unavoidable. Also try to get out of the upsmash although I dont recall how useful that it from the downthrow.
Reading entire posts that you comment on is tight!
And saying u dont get grabbed is dumb. Thats why I didnt
This is not due to an unimaginable amount of skill but simply that m2 has more range from the dtilt than pikachu and pikachu has [I think] the shortest grab range in the game whereas m2s is just shy of marth and roys.
Yes a good pikachu player will get some grabs off but a good m2 player can limit that with moderate spacing.
Not to mention I said if you get hit try to DI. Thats assuming that he was saying that if you get dthrown at 60-80 the upsmash is coming and is unavoidable. Also try to get out of the upsmash although I dont recall how useful that it from the downthrow.
Reading entire posts that you comment on is tight!
And saying u dont get grabbed is dumb. Thats why I didnt
soap
Smash Hero
Pika has good usmash lead ins beside grab.
fair>usmash all dai.
people tell me that is not a real combo but i get it to work on decent floaty players all the time.
fair>usmash all dai.
people tell me that is not a real combo but i get it to work on decent floaty players all the time.
THAT IS NOT A COMBO
but m2 is fat and it'll hit him anyways a lot of the time
but m2 is fat and it'll hit him anyways a lot of the time
but not out of combos or you'll get ***** on startup frames
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Fair to upsmash isnt a combo. The Usmash is too slow. When Im at kill percent and Im grounded I CC and hold up my shield and I shouldnt get hit if I have the right shield.
Its not something im worried about. I am worried about upsmash out of shield if I get too aggressive and landing on it.
Teleporting out of combos is a terrible idea in that sense. It has some startup lag where ur just sitting there and you will get upsmashed. Alot of times its bad to teleport out of falcon combos unless they have to really extend themselves
Edit: Bowser is fat
bowser is sooo fat but at least my tail doesn't stick out of my sheild and count as a huge huge huge hurtbox
a little itty bitty part of my tail counts though
edit: my shield is fat to match my bowser
a little itty bitty part of my tail counts though
edit: my shield is fat to match my bowser
Little England
Smash Master
^^ This post was funny to me for some reason. Especially the edit
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
U got me gimpy. I do hate m2s shield. I find myself using light shield and then switching to regular 
We should def play more tho. M2 bowser lol. Yoshi's story? battle of the fatasses lol.
We should def play more tho. M2 bowser lol. Yoshi's story? battle of the fatasses lol.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
^.^ gimpyfish.
I wonder when Taj'll be back?...
I wonder when Taj'll be back?...
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Teleport cancel lol. thats funny lol. That just means ur gettin kilt off
PIKACHU
Initial Thoughts- Pikachu is character that, statistically, shouldn’t give you problems, but realistically he can give you problems. I think the most important thing about this match is keeping Pikachu from gaining momentum and preventing those easy KOs from up smash or up smash > thunder.
MAGIC NUMBER is 118%
OFFENSE- You will probably use all of your approaches against Pikachu because Pikachu has a good enough dash dance to punish you if you get too predictable. He can neutral air through your shadow ball, he can go over your wavedash down tilt, he can jump away from your teleport approach or cross up, and he can choose to stay low to better avoid your grab approaches.
Pikachu can be a tough character to catch, but that’s why you don’t want to chase Pikachu. Your offense will probably start from “pinning” Pikachu with a careful and calm approach. Using a loose dash dance, walking with the threat of tilts, and short wavedashes to mix up your approach and Pikachu’s spacing for his neutral airs so you can get into him and start tearing him up. Pikachu is weak when he is above you. Your up tilt will help you get things started at low percentage.
Up tilt > forward air > neutral air/DJC up air then follow Pikachu with your shadow ball and be relentless. When Pikachu is off the ground with no momentum, or recovering from the air, that’s where you should win. If your follow ups are successful, you should start getting tech chases and down throws into combos, tech chases, and getting Pikachu back in the air again where he has less priority.
You have forward air, back air edge guards, and up throw for KOs. Pikachu has up smash at lower percentage, then just aerials at higher percentage
DEFENSIVE-
If you’re forced to play the ground game, you have to call his approaches, call his SHFFL, cross ups, his empty short hops, and then his down smashes and grab game will start messing you up. It is very important to not let Pikachu get into his rhythm, which is why you want to play it safe until the match is in your advantage. If Pikachu gets ahead, it can start getting ugly. He’ll try to run around more, play even more of a hit and run game with you, and you’ll be forced to play catch-up more.
You want Pikachu to play into your game. You want him to fly into your wavedash back shield grabs, you want him to shield when you wavedash toward him and bite on your dash dance grabs. Teleport cross ups are risky if you’re too predictable, but they can also bait Pikachu up smashes for you punish out of shield. You can do things like Teleport Cross up to pivot shield or even dash away and pivot shield to bait these actions.
If you’re really into Pikachu’s rhythm, you can start to counter approaches which SH confusions to create your set ups.
Edgeguarding- It’s not that easy since Pikachu actually has a decent recovery, but your best option is to bait him to recover to the ledge by standing on stage then immediately teleport to the ledge when the time comes for him to make a move and force his hand. He’ll most likely just opt for the stage at low percentage, and the edge at high percentage because of the up throw KO. This isn’t guaranteed of course, so observe carefully and take all of his options and patterns into consideration. His recovery is versatile, so you’re mainly just looking to get something started back on the stage when you take away the edge.
Final Thoughts- You have to treat Pikachu like a Fox without up throw > up air and a stronger but more compact up smash. You don’t want to lose easy stocks. It will happen, but your mentality should really be no easy stocks, and Pikachu might play it the same way, so it is important that you play Pikachu in a way that makes it feel like he can’t get inside, that he can’t approach you, and that he has nowhere to run. Difficult, maybe, but if you can create that feeling for half the match then you’re in better shape than the Pikachu that has to try to run circles around your big shield and quick lateral mobility to score sneaky up smashes on you.
I think you guys covered most of the match, but if there are any specific questions, go ahead and post.
Otherwise, next up is Young Link!
Initial Thoughts- Pikachu is character that, statistically, shouldn’t give you problems, but realistically he can give you problems. I think the most important thing about this match is keeping Pikachu from gaining momentum and preventing those easy KOs from up smash or up smash > thunder.
MAGIC NUMBER is 118%
OFFENSE- You will probably use all of your approaches against Pikachu because Pikachu has a good enough dash dance to punish you if you get too predictable. He can neutral air through your shadow ball, he can go over your wavedash down tilt, he can jump away from your teleport approach or cross up, and he can choose to stay low to better avoid your grab approaches.
Pikachu can be a tough character to catch, but that’s why you don’t want to chase Pikachu. Your offense will probably start from “pinning” Pikachu with a careful and calm approach. Using a loose dash dance, walking with the threat of tilts, and short wavedashes to mix up your approach and Pikachu’s spacing for his neutral airs so you can get into him and start tearing him up. Pikachu is weak when he is above you. Your up tilt will help you get things started at low percentage.
Up tilt > forward air > neutral air/DJC up air then follow Pikachu with your shadow ball and be relentless. When Pikachu is off the ground with no momentum, or recovering from the air, that’s where you should win. If your follow ups are successful, you should start getting tech chases and down throws into combos, tech chases, and getting Pikachu back in the air again where he has less priority.
You have forward air, back air edge guards, and up throw for KOs. Pikachu has up smash at lower percentage, then just aerials at higher percentage
DEFENSIVE-
If you’re forced to play the ground game, you have to call his approaches, call his SHFFL, cross ups, his empty short hops, and then his down smashes and grab game will start messing you up. It is very important to not let Pikachu get into his rhythm, which is why you want to play it safe until the match is in your advantage. If Pikachu gets ahead, it can start getting ugly. He’ll try to run around more, play even more of a hit and run game with you, and you’ll be forced to play catch-up more.
You want Pikachu to play into your game. You want him to fly into your wavedash back shield grabs, you want him to shield when you wavedash toward him and bite on your dash dance grabs. Teleport cross ups are risky if you’re too predictable, but they can also bait Pikachu up smashes for you punish out of shield. You can do things like Teleport Cross up to pivot shield or even dash away and pivot shield to bait these actions.
If you’re really into Pikachu’s rhythm, you can start to counter approaches which SH confusions to create your set ups.
Edgeguarding- It’s not that easy since Pikachu actually has a decent recovery, but your best option is to bait him to recover to the ledge by standing on stage then immediately teleport to the ledge when the time comes for him to make a move and force his hand. He’ll most likely just opt for the stage at low percentage, and the edge at high percentage because of the up throw KO. This isn’t guaranteed of course, so observe carefully and take all of his options and patterns into consideration. His recovery is versatile, so you’re mainly just looking to get something started back on the stage when you take away the edge.
Final Thoughts- You have to treat Pikachu like a Fox without up throw > up air and a stronger but more compact up smash. You don’t want to lose easy stocks. It will happen, but your mentality should really be no easy stocks, and Pikachu might play it the same way, so it is important that you play Pikachu in a way that makes it feel like he can’t get inside, that he can’t approach you, and that he has nowhere to run. Difficult, maybe, but if you can create that feeling for half the match then you’re in better shape than the Pikachu that has to try to run circles around your big shield and quick lateral mobility to score sneaky up smashes on you.
I think you guys covered most of the match, but if there are any specific questions, go ahead and post.
Otherwise, next up is Young Link!
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Young link is fast. His aerials out prioritize m2's and m2 is light and floaty enough that at low percents watch out for u air cuz its easy damage and Y link has a better chance to kill m2 than other characters.
This lil ***** has speed and projectiles, in which case m2 is a bigass target so be weary of his setups.
Offensively I like to baby shadow ball to grab alot. I like this because if u hit with the sb then theres a good chance you wont get grabbed if ur fast enough and it stopped his projectile spam momentarily. WD is with tilts and grabs but I like to WD past him and pivot grabs and or tilts just so you arent in range of anything hes throwing or the hookshot.
Defensively I dont really like to dash dance too close to him cuz if hes throwin **** u may get hit or be forced to shield which is an easy grab for him. Y link doesnt have to much range in attacks so he should be fairly close for shield grabs but often hell do aerials thru you so that he doesnt get grabbed. You can do pivot shields and tilt as he lands or grab he hes close enough.
Not a good recovery so backthrows and backairs and sweet spotted uairs are pretty nice. Of course who doesnt love the upthrow. and good options after y link misses a grab is dsmash at higher percents and grab/dtilt at lower ones. If link recovers low use downsmash and fsmash if he recovers high or misses the sweet spot.
This lil ***** has speed and projectiles, in which case m2 is a bigass target so be weary of his setups.
Offensively I like to baby shadow ball to grab alot. I like this because if u hit with the sb then theres a good chance you wont get grabbed if ur fast enough and it stopped his projectile spam momentarily. WD is with tilts and grabs but I like to WD past him and pivot grabs and or tilts just so you arent in range of anything hes throwing or the hookshot.
Defensively I dont really like to dash dance too close to him cuz if hes throwin **** u may get hit or be forced to shield which is an easy grab for him. Y link doesnt have to much range in attacks so he should be fairly close for shield grabs but often hell do aerials thru you so that he doesnt get grabbed. You can do pivot shields and tilt as he lands or grab he hes close enough.
Not a good recovery so backthrows and backairs and sweet spotted uairs are pretty nice. Of course who doesnt love the upthrow. and good options after y link misses a grab is dsmash at higher percents and grab/dtilt at lower ones. If link recovers low use downsmash and fsmash if he recovers high or misses the sweet spot.
imo Young Link is one of Mewtwo's worst matchups for some reason. I don't even know why, it's just a feeling. He's much faster than Link, making killing Mewtwo actually not hard for him due to dair and uair.
He's just the right fall speed and fast enough with his aerials that give Mewtwo a hard time to capitalize on mistakes for me unlike Falcos that fall fast that allow for techchases much more easily or Samus floatiness that allows all characters to try to get through the projectiles..
He's just the right fall speed and fast enough with his aerials that give Mewtwo a hard time to capitalize on mistakes for me unlike Falcos that fall fast that allow for techchases much more easily or Samus floatiness that allows all characters to try to get through the projectiles..
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I agree. I can **** y links lol but they actually do pose a threat to m2 because of speed and m2 being light and ****ty.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Even though Mewtwo should be HEAVY... I hate YL with Mewtwo. i go Marth instead. 
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Thats like two completely different thoughts lol. M2 should be heavy and you like marth vs yl better.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172019
they talking about m2 in the doc boards lol.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172019
they talking about m2 in the doc boards lol.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
My thoughts were that Mewtwo is light and floaty when he should be HEAVY and floaty... and that Marth is a better pick against YL. period. The little **** just attacks too fast.
As for the Doc thing... I'm in. thank's for letting me know.
As for the Doc thing... I'm in. thank's for letting me know.
lol, so that was the cause for alarm?
Yeah, we kinda talk about matchups as somebody brings them up. Pretty sporadic thread, but stuff gets done somehow
Yeah, we kinda talk about matchups as somebody brings them up. Pretty sporadic thread, but stuff gets done somehow
YOUNG LINK
Magic Number: 127%
Initial Thoughts: YL is quick, throws/shoots decent projectiles while on the move, decent priority compared to Mewtwo, and doesn't get KOed from up throw as easily as we'd like.
He is a bit lighter than Link, but this only makes him harder to combo when it should count for a KO. Being lighter helps force him off the stage a bit easier from your neutral air, back airs, and smashes though. His recovery is typically as easy to edgeguard as Link's. His up B gives him a little more to work with, but his hook shot is shorter, so it CAN limit his options a little more. Especially since it should be either harder/impossible for YL to use bombs to help his recovery.
YL can be annoying and quick, but I think if you play with a clear head and try not to be too fancy, you can shut him down and keep him from getting those D-air/up air KOs on you. Despite all the damage you may take from projectiles, Mewtwo should live to relatively higher percentages in this match if you're careful.
OFFENSE: TELEPORT is your best friend in this match-up. You can use it to get through a lot of bull **** and close the gap quickly on YL. Your down tilt should be on par with most of YLs attacks in range and possibly even faster than most of his ground moves. Try not to eat crouch cancel down smashes though. Once you're inside, depending on the stage, approaching baby shadow balls to cover boomerang throws and force the YL to commit to an option. He'll either full hop away from your approach and try to run using platforms, SHFFL an aerial to cross up, or hop back wards and pull out another projectile.
If you want to keep that pressure up on him once you've closed in, you have to call how he'll move. You don't want him to run circles around you, but the projectiles can lead into nasty combos if you get hit carelessly. If he tries to go high, typically neutral air as he approaches platforms works nicely. If he gets away, teleport to the platform underneath him, and pressure him with up tilt/neutral air again while being mindful of down airs trying to poke your tail.
When he pulls a bomb, you can also be pretty aggressive since all he can do are B moves or throw the bomb. You know he can't grab you, you know he can't aerial, so when he's in the air, he can drop and do an aerial or throw it at you. If you're ready, you can use that to your advantage and catch bombs while you're approaching*, and use it to force him to temporarily commit to a defensive action and play for aggressive grabs from shield stun, or shield pressure him with down tilts/neutral air.
*Short hop and press Z as the bomb approaches you, or you can play safer if you're uncertain and temporarily retreat by short hopping and pressing R+A to do the air dodge grab. You typically want to air dodge away from the YL though since you'll be vulnerable.
If you ever nail YL with down tilt, then you should have your bread and butter combo, down tilt > forward air > up air, or you can do a gambit like: down tilt >DJC up air > Forward air > neutral air > baby shadow ball > IF neutral air through shadow ball, shield grab/ IF double jump, watch for down airs and punish and up tilt pressure otherwise. There are other variations of mixing the DJC up airs and DJC/regular forward airs as it varies with DI, but ending the combo with neutral air can give you certain opportunities that you may not get with an up air/forward air finish.
DEFENSE:
There are a few YL styles. Some swear by the Camper's Bible, and will continue to run and shoot, hit and run, until you make a glaring mistake where they can get some kind of combo and some will use projectiles to probe and actually play a spaced SHFFL/jab/grab game. I haven't played any good YLs in a while, but I think the ones that still play probably play more of a solid projectile > SHFFL game than camp since the campers probably all migrated to Brawl.
You can tilt boomerang approaches, and read his advance by spacing with dash dance or short wavedashes accordingly. Bombs can combo into neutral/down airs on you, so you have to be aware of where you are and what his options are when he's close enough to throw a bomb and attack you. His forward air can be spaced pretty well on your shield, but your wavedash out of shield should work well if he hits high, and if he hits low, watch out for a follow up down smash.
YLs best kill moves are sweet spotted Neutral airs, down airs, up air, dash attack, second hit of forward smash, and down smash. Only down air and to a slightly less extent, up air, will kill you earlier than you'd like and can also be guaranteed from YL's down throw. The rest are relatively avoidable since they're just like any other character's attacks, but a little slower or they have more lag. What makes them land is the coordination of projectile shield pressure, high-low mix ups on your shield, and Mewtwo's natural size.
Edgeguarding: Back throw > back airs. Watch for air dodge > grapple and intercept with back air/down air. Shadow balls can force jumps/stop YLs momentum. It's probably in your best interest to teleport stall if YL is recovering even or below the stage and play off of the high up B/grapple. Since if you're ledge stalling, going for a sweet spot is almost suicide.
If you're on the stage while he's recovering and he decides to go for an up B sweet spot, if you're quick you can SUNC/Teleport edgehog. If he comes a little high, then just down smash and finish him with back airs if necessary.
Final Thoughts: Mewtwo is big, but it doesn't really matter THAT much IMO. Between long wavedashes and teleports out of shield, Mewtwo can close the gap and try to force the YL to platforms where he's vulnerable, or play a close up game where Mewtwo's height becomes an asset in shield grabbing and his tail gives just enough range to give good pressure while avoiding getting grabbed.
I think the most important thing, is to keep calm. If you're getting hit, it's not the end of the world, but you don't want YL to ride off of the momentum. So if you need to regroup yourself, back off out of his range and charge your shadow ball. If you call his boomerang throws at medium range, then that will be your game breaker and get you damage scoring/KO opportunities.
If any of that was unclear, or you have specific questions, comments, or concerns please post them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise... This week: ROY
Magic Number: 127%
Initial Thoughts: YL is quick, throws/shoots decent projectiles while on the move, decent priority compared to Mewtwo, and doesn't get KOed from up throw as easily as we'd like.
He is a bit lighter than Link, but this only makes him harder to combo when it should count for a KO. Being lighter helps force him off the stage a bit easier from your neutral air, back airs, and smashes though. His recovery is typically as easy to edgeguard as Link's. His up B gives him a little more to work with, but his hook shot is shorter, so it CAN limit his options a little more. Especially since it should be either harder/impossible for YL to use bombs to help his recovery.
YL can be annoying and quick, but I think if you play with a clear head and try not to be too fancy, you can shut him down and keep him from getting those D-air/up air KOs on you. Despite all the damage you may take from projectiles, Mewtwo should live to relatively higher percentages in this match if you're careful.
OFFENSE: TELEPORT is your best friend in this match-up. You can use it to get through a lot of bull **** and close the gap quickly on YL. Your down tilt should be on par with most of YLs attacks in range and possibly even faster than most of his ground moves. Try not to eat crouch cancel down smashes though. Once you're inside, depending on the stage, approaching baby shadow balls to cover boomerang throws and force the YL to commit to an option. He'll either full hop away from your approach and try to run using platforms, SHFFL an aerial to cross up, or hop back wards and pull out another projectile.
If you want to keep that pressure up on him once you've closed in, you have to call how he'll move. You don't want him to run circles around you, but the projectiles can lead into nasty combos if you get hit carelessly. If he tries to go high, typically neutral air as he approaches platforms works nicely. If he gets away, teleport to the platform underneath him, and pressure him with up tilt/neutral air again while being mindful of down airs trying to poke your tail.
When he pulls a bomb, you can also be pretty aggressive since all he can do are B moves or throw the bomb. You know he can't grab you, you know he can't aerial, so when he's in the air, he can drop and do an aerial or throw it at you. If you're ready, you can use that to your advantage and catch bombs while you're approaching*, and use it to force him to temporarily commit to a defensive action and play for aggressive grabs from shield stun, or shield pressure him with down tilts/neutral air.
*Short hop and press Z as the bomb approaches you, or you can play safer if you're uncertain and temporarily retreat by short hopping and pressing R+A to do the air dodge grab. You typically want to air dodge away from the YL though since you'll be vulnerable.
If you ever nail YL with down tilt, then you should have your bread and butter combo, down tilt > forward air > up air, or you can do a gambit like: down tilt >DJC up air > Forward air > neutral air > baby shadow ball > IF neutral air through shadow ball, shield grab/ IF double jump, watch for down airs and punish and up tilt pressure otherwise. There are other variations of mixing the DJC up airs and DJC/regular forward airs as it varies with DI, but ending the combo with neutral air can give you certain opportunities that you may not get with an up air/forward air finish.
DEFENSE:
There are a few YL styles. Some swear by the Camper's Bible, and will continue to run and shoot, hit and run, until you make a glaring mistake where they can get some kind of combo and some will use projectiles to probe and actually play a spaced SHFFL/jab/grab game. I haven't played any good YLs in a while, but I think the ones that still play probably play more of a solid projectile > SHFFL game than camp since the campers probably all migrated to Brawl.
You can tilt boomerang approaches, and read his advance by spacing with dash dance or short wavedashes accordingly. Bombs can combo into neutral/down airs on you, so you have to be aware of where you are and what his options are when he's close enough to throw a bomb and attack you. His forward air can be spaced pretty well on your shield, but your wavedash out of shield should work well if he hits high, and if he hits low, watch out for a follow up down smash.
YLs best kill moves are sweet spotted Neutral airs, down airs, up air, dash attack, second hit of forward smash, and down smash. Only down air and to a slightly less extent, up air, will kill you earlier than you'd like and can also be guaranteed from YL's down throw. The rest are relatively avoidable since they're just like any other character's attacks, but a little slower or they have more lag. What makes them land is the coordination of projectile shield pressure, high-low mix ups on your shield, and Mewtwo's natural size.
Edgeguarding: Back throw > back airs. Watch for air dodge > grapple and intercept with back air/down air. Shadow balls can force jumps/stop YLs momentum. It's probably in your best interest to teleport stall if YL is recovering even or below the stage and play off of the high up B/grapple. Since if you're ledge stalling, going for a sweet spot is almost suicide.
If you're on the stage while he's recovering and he decides to go for an up B sweet spot, if you're quick you can SUNC/Teleport edgehog. If he comes a little high, then just down smash and finish him with back airs if necessary.
Final Thoughts: Mewtwo is big, but it doesn't really matter THAT much IMO. Between long wavedashes and teleports out of shield, Mewtwo can close the gap and try to force the YL to platforms where he's vulnerable, or play a close up game where Mewtwo's height becomes an asset in shield grabbing and his tail gives just enough range to give good pressure while avoiding getting grabbed.
I think the most important thing, is to keep calm. If you're getting hit, it's not the end of the world, but you don't want YL to ride off of the momentum. So if you need to regroup yourself, back off out of his range and charge your shadow ball. If you call his boomerang throws at medium range, then that will be your game breaker and get you damage scoring/KO opportunities.
If any of that was unclear, or you have specific questions, comments, or concerns please post them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise... This week: ROY
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
This is probably written somewhere but whats
SUNC?
This is the teleport to the ledge thing right
SUNC?
This is the teleport to the ledge thing right
yes Kaos
Roy should be easy, throw lots of purple at him. don't get fsmash'd. dtilt leads into fsmash but nothing else does. Roy suffers from low hitstun when he hits with his tipper, quick nairs afterwards can lead into advantage.
His side b/fsmash are going to be the main concern, his aerials are average.
Somewhat easy to combo and edgeguard.
Roy should be easy, throw lots of purple at him. don't get fsmash'd. dtilt leads into fsmash but nothing else does. Roy suffers from low hitstun when he hits with his tipper, quick nairs afterwards can lead into advantage.
His side b/fsmash are going to be the main concern, his aerials are average.
Somewhat easy to combo and edgeguard.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I wanted to know what it stood for lol.
Roy aint ****! Primarily uses dtilt[little bit of irony] to start combos. At long range getting hit isnt terrible cuz his sweet spot is the middle of the blade.
He doesnt combo m2 very well but he does have some low knockback on uairs and such. Just dont be dumb.
His grab range is bigger than yours so be weary but this matchup I tend to use disable alot because of his extended hitboxes when he attacks and the fact that he falls faster.
Shadowball and down tilt and combo like he aint ****.
A sure fireway is to run away and charge shadowballs and just hit him with fully charged ones when he commits to an attack. dumb and u gets no *****es for it but it works
oh yea his recovery is ****ty and this ***** can be killed easily with back throws to any sort of edgeguard. I like to cp dreamland cuz he dies and u live and backthrow kills.
Roy aint ****! Primarily uses dtilt[little bit of irony] to start combos. At long range getting hit isnt terrible cuz his sweet spot is the middle of the blade.
He doesnt combo m2 very well but he does have some low knockback on uairs and such. Just dont be dumb.
His grab range is bigger than yours so be weary but this matchup I tend to use disable alot because of his extended hitboxes when he attacks and the fact that he falls faster.
Shadowball and down tilt and combo like he aint ****.
A sure fireway is to run away and charge shadowballs and just hit him with fully charged ones when he commits to an attack. dumb and u gets no *****es for it but it works
oh yea his recovery is ****ty and this ***** can be killed easily with back throws to any sort of edgeguard. I like to cp dreamland cuz he dies and u live and backthrow kills.
D
Deleted member
Guest
roy is combo practice for mewtwo. DI away when he down throws to avoid fsmash. this match is alarmingly easier than mewtwo's other matches.
The Immortal Sir NZ
Smash Apprentice
I always liked this matchup, it makes it look like Mewtwo is actually a viable choice and doesn't have noticable disadvantages to everybody else, except for his size that is.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
GTFO
m2 is a viable choice. Roy just aint **** compared to him. I dont even like doing this matchup cuz theres no challenge.
i thought i posted something on the roy subject - perhaps i just saw umbreons post and nodded though lol
The Immortal Sir NZ
Smash Apprentice
Are you saying Mewtwo is underrrated? Or that Mewtwo just has a large advantage over him?
mew2 is really bad don't be tricked
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Now we gotta mm$ lol. Monday night melee madness we must.
-I think that m2 is underrated, especially amongst the low and bottom tiers. There arent many m2 players that really, really, know what they are doin. I think there is still some to m2 to discover. The problem with m2 is that decent doesnt cut it. You gotta be towards the top approaching mastery to really do him justice.
Im not saying that hes super **** or even mid tier or above but of the characters that kinda get tossed away I think hes is one of the best.
He can do well against all of the low tiers and against certain ff or light character he combos well or can get upthrow kills. His recovery and off stage edgeguarding are top rated.
One of the things I like that m2 brings to an overall play style is the mentality of earning every single one of your kills. I find myself going off the stage for kills with every character I play: Even if I could have done a boring guaranteed edgeguard while stationary.
M2 does, unfortunately have some serious flaws that we are all aware of that keep him restricted to low tier but hes fun to play and just looks saucy.
And m2 shouldnt lose to roy. Especially on dreamland.
i dont want to take your money OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Ohhhh!
I don't feel like doing a long write up on Roy. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
First of all, I'm going to disagree on the Roy is easy-mode simply on the basis of playing NEO's Roy back in the day. Roy still has enough going to make it an even match. Most other Roys on the planet, sure they can probably be fodder.
Roy is mostly going to kill you from quick aerial > Fsmash at higher percentage and from tech chased Forward smash so becareful of that. That's pretty much the only time you're REALLY vulnerable.
Otherwise, Roy can try to play like Marth and get grabs on you, he can space tipped aerials on you and they aren't nearly as devastating as Marth's, but it can still be enough to hold you off if he's playing correctly. Had I never played NEO's Roy I'd probably be right there with you guys, butI take every match I've played into consideration, especially the high end match-ups.
I still ended up winning most of the matches against him, and I even wonder how I'd do now that my M2 is a little bit more better, but I know he'd still put up a very tough match and you have to be careful. Sethlon's Roy also gets an honorable mention even though it wasn't up to NEO's standard, that level of Roy will also be a hassle if you let him get off on you.
I don't feel like doing a long write up on Roy. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
First of all, I'm going to disagree on the Roy is easy-mode simply on the basis of playing NEO's Roy back in the day. Roy still has enough going to make it an even match. Most other Roys on the planet, sure they can probably be fodder.
Roy is mostly going to kill you from quick aerial > Fsmash at higher percentage and from tech chased Forward smash so becareful of that. That's pretty much the only time you're REALLY vulnerable.
Otherwise, Roy can try to play like Marth and get grabs on you, he can space tipped aerials on you and they aren't nearly as devastating as Marth's, but it can still be enough to hold you off if he's playing correctly. Had I never played NEO's Roy I'd probably be right there with you guys, butI take every match I've played into consideration, especially the high end match-ups.
I still ended up winning most of the matches against him, and I even wonder how I'd do now that my M2 is a little bit more better, but I know he'd still put up a very tough match and you have to be careful. Sethlon's Roy also gets an honorable mention even though it wasn't up to NEO's standard, that level of Roy will also be a hassle if you let him get off on you.