Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Ah. well, you'll probably rematch at some point.
-
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Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
quak
Smash Champion
yeah, and LOSE AGAIN!
GO NORCAL
GO NORCAL
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Or get lucky and WIN! Whatever. Taj was retired for a little while right? Makes sense that he'd have to catch up now. As for me, i still need to get going lol. No Johns.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Taj is a beast lol. haha good **** lol. so u backk in the tourney scene?
I suppose I am for now...
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
haha think about it. thats purple stuff. lol. that fierce grape. that mewtwo goodeness. gohead playa charge yo shadowball lol
Little England
Smash Master
So how about dem Marios??
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
**** marios lol. Not gonna lie his uptilt is a motherfukka. and that fsmash kills m2s light ***.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Yeah... Mario is actually one of Mewtwo's toughest match-ups. He's just so freaking BALANCED... not too many glaring weaknesses to take advantage of... plus the dam cape...
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Wow, it's kinda... quiet in here... let's see... Marios... ummm...
From what I know of the Marios, they have a kinda weak approach game that relies quite a bit on projectiles. Which means you should sorta be able to tell when they're going to come at you based on their spacing and the position of their projectiles. If they're facing you, they're most likely going to go with either a nair, a uair or a fulljump dair to uair. Fairs are possible also, but they're laggy and can be avoided with like... a pivot... shield the projectile... grab? Or jump over the projectile and try your luck with a nair.
With judicious use of Shadow Ball, nairs and spaced tilts, I suppose it would be possible to slowly push a Mario into a corner... although this is difficult since Mewtwo doesn't have the best priority... it'd require a lot of reaction time and prediction...
Their edgeguard game isn't amazing... mostly just watch out for ledgehop/ledgedrop bairs. As long as you don't get super close before you Teleport, it shouldn't be a problem. Other than that, they could... try to intercept with a ledgedash dsmash, I suppose, but as long as you aren't too stupid about how you recover, the low landing lag of the Teleport should protect you from that.
DI'ing down and away from uairs should break the majority of the Marios' combo game, although Mewtwo is a pretty large target, so no guarantees there. When Doc dthrows at... 80 or so percent, DI slightly behind him so it makes it harder for him to fair you out of it.
They have crappy recoveries, and you can go out a ways, so try to catch them after they Tornado with a bair or the like.
Hmmm... watch out for stupid stuff like... Super Jump Punch out of shield and you should be okay...
That's all I can come up with for now... thoughts, anyone?
From what I know of the Marios, they have a kinda weak approach game that relies quite a bit on projectiles. Which means you should sorta be able to tell when they're going to come at you based on their spacing and the position of their projectiles. If they're facing you, they're most likely going to go with either a nair, a uair or a fulljump dair to uair. Fairs are possible also, but they're laggy and can be avoided with like... a pivot... shield the projectile... grab? Or jump over the projectile and try your luck with a nair.
With judicious use of Shadow Ball, nairs and spaced tilts, I suppose it would be possible to slowly push a Mario into a corner... although this is difficult since Mewtwo doesn't have the best priority... it'd require a lot of reaction time and prediction...
Their edgeguard game isn't amazing... mostly just watch out for ledgehop/ledgedrop bairs. As long as you don't get super close before you Teleport, it shouldn't be a problem. Other than that, they could... try to intercept with a ledgedash dsmash, I suppose, but as long as you aren't too stupid about how you recover, the low landing lag of the Teleport should protect you from that.
DI'ing down and away from uairs should break the majority of the Marios' combo game, although Mewtwo is a pretty large target, so no guarantees there. When Doc dthrows at... 80 or so percent, DI slightly behind him so it makes it harder for him to fair you out of it.
They have crappy recoveries, and you can go out a ways, so try to catch them after they Tornado with a bair or the like.
Hmmm... watch out for stupid stuff like... Super Jump Punch out of shield and you should be okay...
That's all I can come up with for now... thoughts, anyone?
Interesting, I don't get grabbed enough by Doc to really know how to escape the forward air, and half the time they seem to miss me anyway...How would you play against Mario/Doc players that decide to mix cape with their approach? It is pretty solid against Mewtwo, it reflects our shadow ball approach, it turns us around and makes us only have terrible moves instead of ok moves to combat their approach. It also turns off shield grab possibilities for their approach. Normally, I'd have to just have ******** spacing, but I'm thinking last second shield turn arounds to mess with their spacing.
I'm hoping we can brainstorm some ideas here since it is really safe and drags the game out in their favor since it is so hard for Mewtwo to get in and build damage.
I'm hoping we can brainstorm some ideas here since it is really safe and drags the game out in their favor since it is so hard for Mewtwo to get in and build damage.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Well... capes take a total of thirty-five frames... from the time it takes the Shadow Ball to leave Mewtwo's hand to Mewtwo being able to act again is fifteen... last frame of cape reflect is thirty-three...
Hrm... that means... I guess it's possible for them to cape a Shadow Ball and have two frames of lag... but the Shadow Ball would also kinda "cancel" Mewtwo's lag... so I guess it would boil down to reaction time? I'm pretty sure Doc can't shorthop cape to aerial (like bair or something), so if you threw a small Shadow Ball... you might be able to ASDI it down and dtilt Doc on landing... maybe... Mario might be able to cape then immediately bair (or nair, I guess) which might work out.
Well... in that case, I guess it would be best to not throw Shadow Balls when they're within about half a shorthop distance away... which really isn't that far, so it gives you a bit of freedom to hock projectiles.
I don't really see the shield caping being that viable... a nair out of shield would probably clip them either way. Plus, the cape takes a while to come out (frame twelve at the earliest) so I see two options to deal with it.
Since the cape is so slow, you can nair or fair them out of it. Mewtwo is airborne on frame six, which means if you start the fair or nair on frame five of the jump, you'll have the attack out by frame ten, giving you a two frame advantage over the twelve frame cape. Their own nair, though, is out on frame three, so that'll beat you out if you choose wrong. Dashdance grab would probably work against either option though... hm.
I don't really like the reaction time rock paper scissors game though, so personally... I'd probably try to outspace with the ftilt. I dunno, there aren't any hitboxes for the cape available, since they seem to go invisible for some reason, so... it'd probably just take a few tries to figure out how the opponent spaces when planning to cape to set up your own spacing for the ftilt.
Yeah, this post was a little scatter minded... but I hope I conveyed everything. If not, ask for clarification, I guess.
Hrm... that means... I guess it's possible for them to cape a Shadow Ball and have two frames of lag... but the Shadow Ball would also kinda "cancel" Mewtwo's lag... so I guess it would boil down to reaction time? I'm pretty sure Doc can't shorthop cape to aerial (like bair or something), so if you threw a small Shadow Ball... you might be able to ASDI it down and dtilt Doc on landing... maybe... Mario might be able to cape then immediately bair (or nair, I guess) which might work out.
Well... in that case, I guess it would be best to not throw Shadow Balls when they're within about half a shorthop distance away... which really isn't that far, so it gives you a bit of freedom to hock projectiles.
I don't really see the shield caping being that viable... a nair out of shield would probably clip them either way. Plus, the cape takes a while to come out (frame twelve at the earliest) so I see two options to deal with it.
Since the cape is so slow, you can nair or fair them out of it. Mewtwo is airborne on frame six, which means if you start the fair or nair on frame five of the jump, you'll have the attack out by frame ten, giving you a two frame advantage over the twelve frame cape. Their own nair, though, is out on frame three, so that'll beat you out if you choose wrong. Dashdance grab would probably work against either option though... hm.
I don't really like the reaction time rock paper scissors game though, so personally... I'd probably try to outspace with the ftilt. I dunno, there aren't any hitboxes for the cape available, since they seem to go invisible for some reason, so... it'd probably just take a few tries to figure out how the opponent spaces when planning to cape to set up your own spacing for the ftilt.
Yeah, this post was a little scatter minded... but I hope I conveyed everything. If not, ask for clarification, I guess.
I understand the timing issue, and poorly spaced capes will indeed get punished, but I don't think neutral air out of shield really solves the spaced cape problem since they have plenty of time to defend against it, and it allows them to get inside your space where that is the most dangerous. Once they're in their grab range, then you're in trouble. The cape just doesn't seem that slow since it lasts a long time.
I guess it is more of an issue if Mario is using it since he can stay in the air with it, but both capes still force you to take care of the shadow ball one way or another, nullifying your approach and giving them an opportunity to move in on you instead.
Yeah, I agree that dash dance grab, though limited, would probably be the best. Spaced tilts may also work, but it's just so **** safe if they do it correctly that you almost have to keep running and waiting.
I guess that's almost always the dilemma of playing Mewtwo. I've beaten every Doc I've played since Caveman in 05, but I guess the Mario problem is that as someone said before, he's so balanced that Mewtwo has almost nothing on him. Mewtwo can sorta kinda gimp doc, a little bit harder to do on Mario. He's floaty enough to escape down tilt combos, heavy enough to crouch cancel, has better priority, grab combos... Doc can finish it faster, Mario has more trouble... Mewtwo has 110% up throws, which is ok, but they don't have to be grabbed... Things just look bad if they decide to play you very slowly. The more offensive they are, the more prone they are to making mistakes, the characters just naturally have a lot of ways to keep Mewtwo out, and halt damage build up.
Oh well, if you have more to add to the Cape problem, please do so, I'm just kinda playin devils advocate since this is usually what ends up happening to me against certain players. I find ways around it, but its never so clear, it's almost just waiting til they mess up.
I guess it is more of an issue if Mario is using it since he can stay in the air with it, but both capes still force you to take care of the shadow ball one way or another, nullifying your approach and giving them an opportunity to move in on you instead.
Yeah, I agree that dash dance grab, though limited, would probably be the best. Spaced tilts may also work, but it's just so **** safe if they do it correctly that you almost have to keep running and waiting.
I guess that's almost always the dilemma of playing Mewtwo. I've beaten every Doc I've played since Caveman in 05, but I guess the Mario problem is that as someone said before, he's so balanced that Mewtwo has almost nothing on him. Mewtwo can sorta kinda gimp doc, a little bit harder to do on Mario. He's floaty enough to escape down tilt combos, heavy enough to crouch cancel, has better priority, grab combos... Doc can finish it faster, Mario has more trouble... Mewtwo has 110% up throws, which is ok, but they don't have to be grabbed... Things just look bad if they decide to play you very slowly. The more offensive they are, the more prone they are to making mistakes, the characters just naturally have a lot of ways to keep Mewtwo out, and halt damage build up.
Oh well, if you have more to add to the Cape problem, please do so, I'm just kinda playin devils advocate since this is usually what ends up happening to me against certain players. I find ways around it, but its never so clear, it's almost just waiting til they mess up.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Well the actual hit of the cape is only frame twelve through fourteen (out of thirty-five) so that's significantly more "lag" than if they used it to reflect, if that makes sense. So if they caped your shield, they are guaranteed to have twenty-one frames (at least) of lag, which gives you eleven frames of wiggle room to deal with shieldstun or whatever before you can get out your fastest nair. Which... seems fairly reasonable. And if they whiff, then it really shouldn't be too hard to punish. Twenty-one frames minus eight frames for the grab means you have thirteen frames to get back from wherever you were to grab.
Mewtwo's standing grab comes out on frame seven, plus one frame for jump canceling, that's frame eight. Doc/Mario's lowest lag aerial still has seven frames of lag, which means that if they whiff, you should pretty much always get the grab (assuming you're in position to). Autocancels could throw a wrench into things, but I don't think too many people would approach with autuocancel... uairs, I guess. Either way, autocancels still have four frames of lag, plus the falling time, which should still opens them up for punishment.
The problem I see with all this is that it requires a fair bit of reaction in order to move out of the way of the attack, then back in, as well as a bit of space. Because of the Marios' dependency on projectiles (which are kinda slow, actually, framewise) to cover their approach, I don't think the reaction problem will be too bad, since they aren't as free to dashdance around and spam projectiles as... say, Falco. The other problem is that it requires space to move around, which could be hindered by errant projectiles. In order to create that kinda space, I feel like Mewtwo would have to aggressively command the center of the stage and not be pushed back by projectile spam.
Because the Marios have rather slow projectiles (coming out on frame fourteen and ending frame forty-three, but they'll probably have to fulljump or something to set themselves up to throw the projectile, which would give you time to weave around the projectile or hit them out of it), spacing yourself to be just out of dsmash range should be enough to put pressure on them on not let them throw any projectiles. Attempts to throw projectiles could be stopped with judicious nairs, I think. Although... if you could powershield the projectiles semi-consistently, I feel like Mewtwo would have a very decent chance of beating them.
Mewtwo's standing grab comes out on frame seven, plus one frame for jump canceling, that's frame eight. Doc/Mario's lowest lag aerial still has seven frames of lag, which means that if they whiff, you should pretty much always get the grab (assuming you're in position to). Autocancels could throw a wrench into things, but I don't think too many people would approach with autuocancel... uairs, I guess. Either way, autocancels still have four frames of lag, plus the falling time, which should still opens them up for punishment.
The problem I see with all this is that it requires a fair bit of reaction in order to move out of the way of the attack, then back in, as well as a bit of space. Because of the Marios' dependency on projectiles (which are kinda slow, actually, framewise) to cover their approach, I don't think the reaction problem will be too bad, since they aren't as free to dashdance around and spam projectiles as... say, Falco. The other problem is that it requires space to move around, which could be hindered by errant projectiles. In order to create that kinda space, I feel like Mewtwo would have to aggressively command the center of the stage and not be pushed back by projectile spam.
Because the Marios have rather slow projectiles (coming out on frame fourteen and ending frame forty-three, but they'll probably have to fulljump or something to set themselves up to throw the projectile, which would give you time to weave around the projectile or hit them out of it), spacing yourself to be just out of dsmash range should be enough to put pressure on them on not let them throw any projectiles. Attempts to throw projectiles could be stopped with judicious nairs, I think. Although... if you could powershield the projectiles semi-consistently, I feel like Mewtwo would have a very decent chance of beating them.
otg
Smash Master
The Mario's can both SHcape-> aerial. Just trying to aid the discussion.
Hmm, I guess I'll have to try it out. You can't rule out shield knock back, the time it takes to cover that distance, and doesn't it take 10 frames to wavedash alone? It would be at best 17 frames to retaliate with a wavedash out of shield > grab, right?
In my experience it always seemed very difficult to punish, but I suppose if the most reasonable answer is to be frame perfect, then that's acceptable. I must have been overestimating the lag time, or I must have mistimed it in the past and traded my aerial attempts with their neutral airs. I'll have to be more aggressive against it in real matches to figure out the timing I need.
Thanks for your input, that helps a lot. :D
In my experience it always seemed very difficult to punish, but I suppose if the most reasonable answer is to be frame perfect, then that's acceptable. I must have been overestimating the lag time, or I must have mistimed it in the past and traded my aerial attempts with their neutral airs. I'll have to be more aggressive against it in real matches to figure out the timing I need.
Thanks for your input, that helps a lot. :D
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
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- 3,308
Wavedash out of shield to grab would take a total of twenty-three frames... Mewtwo is airborne on frame six, plus the ten frames of landing lag, plus seven frames to start up the grab. So I think you'd be at a few frames of disadvantage if they caped your shield if you were trying to wavedash out to grab.
Yeah, it seems to mean that with shield knock back and spacing, punishing out of shield seems very unsafe, but maybe I'm overlooking what you're saying about the lag. Maybe I should look at it as something to "crouch cancel" or just eat to punish him back a little harder.
As far as the damage race goes on FD and PS specifically, if Mewtwo is winning in damage output it looks a lot more in favor for Mewtwo with 110(~105% PS)% KOs since Mario has trouble finishing except for his punishing smash attacks. Doc, however is pretty much in the same boat if he lands his grab though, that F-air is the great equalizer for him.
As far as the damage race goes on FD and PS specifically, if Mewtwo is winning in damage output it looks a lot more in favor for Mewtwo with 110(~105% PS)% KOs since Mario has trouble finishing except for his punishing smash attacks. Doc, however is pretty much in the same boat if he lands his grab though, that F-air is the great equalizer for him.
The Immortal Sir NZ
Smash Apprentice
For the Cape Problem:
the Marios/Docs that I play against, if I am close enough, a baby shadowball to shorthopped nair seems to work pretty well for me. When they cape, the shadowball hits my nair, which seems to cancel out (?) and my momentum carries me forward to hit them with the "final shock" of the nair once I hit the ground. I usually then follow up with wavedash > whatever.
I know I don't play the highest level of competition, is there any glaring flaws that would render this useless?
the Marios/Docs that I play against, if I am close enough, a baby shadowball to shorthopped nair seems to work pretty well for me. When they cape, the shadowball hits my nair, which seems to cancel out (?) and my momentum carries me forward to hit them with the "final shock" of the nair once I hit the ground. I usually then follow up with wavedash > whatever.
I know I don't play the highest level of competition, is there any glaring flaws that would render this useless?
The biggest flaw I can think of is the diminishing effects of neutral air shutting down the tactic until you get rid of the decay by dying or landing other moves. That's assuming that when they cape your shadow ball, they're still stuck in the lag while you're approaching from a close distance. This obviously doesn't work at medium to long range, and it more or less seems to mean that you're already in the pocket where it's already unsafe to shadow ball and it is kinda silly to cape it instead of jab and approach.
Though, if you can get through a reflected shadow ball with a fresh neutral air, that still helps, and I'll take that into consideration too. I don't remember how I always got around it, but I guess I just naturally do something to make them stop.
My next question would be, how to nullify the double pill recovery from Doc when he's recovering high? Generally, if he's coming high enough to be able to land on the stage, you want to back air him to force his up B recovery in some way. What makes the pills troublesome is that the TWO pills prevent you from just back airing each one and him. In order to actually hit him, you have to avoid the first pill and back air through the second, coupled with Doc's aerial to cover him. If you get hit by the aerial, it will probably flub your edeguard since you can't grab the edge in time. I'm sorry if it is difficult to understand the scenario I'm trying to describe, but it kinda bothers me. The goal with Mewtwo edgeguarding Doc is to back air him or knock him away so that he is forced to up B into your invincible teleport stall.
I know that if he's just dropping pills with no jump and he's forced to Up B to land on the stage or for the edge, then just stalling and waiting for down B is usually the best option, but what about when he can just jump to the stage/air dodge. Do you guys have any ideas on how to guarantee that edgeguard better?
Though, if you can get through a reflected shadow ball with a fresh neutral air, that still helps, and I'll take that into consideration too. I don't remember how I always got around it, but I guess I just naturally do something to make them stop.
My next question would be, how to nullify the double pill recovery from Doc when he's recovering high? Generally, if he's coming high enough to be able to land on the stage, you want to back air him to force his up B recovery in some way. What makes the pills troublesome is that the TWO pills prevent you from just back airing each one and him. In order to actually hit him, you have to avoid the first pill and back air through the second, coupled with Doc's aerial to cover him. If you get hit by the aerial, it will probably flub your edeguard since you can't grab the edge in time. I'm sorry if it is difficult to understand the scenario I'm trying to describe, but it kinda bothers me. The goal with Mewtwo edgeguarding Doc is to back air him or knock him away so that he is forced to up B into your invincible teleport stall.
I know that if he's just dropping pills with no jump and he's forced to Up B to land on the stage or for the edge, then just stalling and waiting for down B is usually the best option, but what about when he can just jump to the stage/air dodge. Do you guys have any ideas on how to guarantee that edgeguard better?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
This isnt garunteed or anything but for the cape problem there are two things u can do. condition them with baby shadowballs into caping. if they shield u should be able to grab. if they get hit u grab. once they start caping charge larger shadowballs and save it. they will cape alot more prematurely in which u can punish. also if its a clutch situation u can always reverse shadowball but that obviously takes guessing. but ive killed plenty of decent marios with it cuz they cape the ball right into them.
A little harder to time but what you do is you shadowball baby sized lol from a farther distance. spam it. either they will mess up and get hit or cape it or shield. if they choose to cape the ball should disappear b4 it gets any distance from them. so u have to shadowwball and then perfect wave dash in for the normal grabs and **** cuz theyll have cape lag
A little harder to time but what you do is you shadowball baby sized lol from a farther distance. spam it. either they will mess up and get hit or cape it or shield. if they choose to cape the ball should disappear b4 it gets any distance from them. so u have to shadowwball and then perfect wave dash in for the normal grabs and **** cuz theyll have cape lag
HK Donut of the Blue Fire
Smash Ace
:O im seeing talk about caping thats mario related i got some questions WeeGee related
1. should mewtwo (due to his bigness) be threatened by luigis Super punch?
and
2. whats the general statistics on Mewtwo VS WeeGee?
1. should mewtwo (due to his bigness) be threatened by luigis Super punch?
and
2. whats the general statistics on Mewtwo VS WeeGee?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Im kinda threatened by luigi in general as m2 lol. No combos lol 
cuz hes too floaty. and moves well. im curios on this one cuz I flat out switch to marth for (luigi, iceclimbers, samus, marth)
cuz hes too floaty. and moves well. im curios on this one cuz I flat out switch to marth for (luigi, iceclimbers, samus, marth)
Little England
Smash Master
I also want to cover those ^^ stupid matchups as well..including Jigglypuff
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Didn't we already kinda discuss Luigi?
Not in this thread.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Taj I want mewtwo v mewtwo tips.
I've been doing early % cg's and otherwise just waiting for grab around 100%
is there anything better to do?
I've been doing early % cg's and otherwise just waiting for grab around 100%
is there anything better to do?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Okay, well, here're the tips that I've found going back through this thread.
DarkDragoon:
Discuss!
DarkDragoon:
Me!:
And Taj:
<_<
Discuss!
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Legit. Ur ****s just too long to quote.
That sounds pretty legit
one thing I like to do to rack up damage other than what was already said is djc fair out of shield instead of a missed shield grab.
Also from that try to hit him with shadowballs as he lands which should allow for a much easier grab. and since upthrow is one way to go. make sure u get those psychic sparks in or whatever they are called.
Also is thats 103% with DI or is that standard. seems pretty low to include good DI as well.
That sounds pretty legit
one thing I like to do to rack up damage other than what was already said is djc fair out of shield instead of a missed shield grab.
Also from that try to hit him with shadowballs as he lands which should allow for a much easier grab. and since upthrow is one way to go. make sure u get those psychic sparks in or whatever they are called.
Also is thats 103% with DI or is that standard. seems pretty low to include good DI as well.
Haha, ok my fault. I guess I just didn't post anything for that, since I originally wasn't planning on discussing Luigi at that time.
Well, since it is taken care of... I guess we'll do another character.
Read the first post... All of my percentages take DI into consideration.
I guess I just didn't post anything for that, since I originally wasn't planning on discussing Luigi at that time. Well, since it is taken care of... I guess we'll do another character.
Read the first post... All of my percentages take DI into consideration.
Yo taj, 2 things i wanted to ask you (cause I need to do this for some other characters)
1) Where is your magic number based off of? I know it's u.throw off the top, but of where? FD?
2) What's the difference between the left and right number? DI vs no DI, or PAL/NTSC? (if it's in the first post i'm literally blind as ****, I dont see an explanation of it)
1) Where is your magic number based off of? I know it's u.throw off the top, but of where? FD?
2) What's the difference between the left and right number? DI vs no DI, or PAL/NTSC? (if it's in the first post i'm literally blind as ****, I dont see an explanation of it)
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
My bad lol. Ill check againHaha, ok my fault.
Well, since it is taken care of... I guess we'll do another character.
Read the first post... All of my percentages take DI into consideration.
Umm lets see wanna do something easier like DK or bowswer?
@Dogy the magic number is on FD. most of them say that in colored writing lol
I 2 am black
i actually didnt look at a matchup, i just remember taj puts a magic number.
Dogysamich- The Left and Right DI doesn't matter for Mewtwo's up throw. I've checked this several times. And yes, these numbers are on taken on FD. Pokemon stadium gives you ~5% lower KOs, Battlefield gives ~7% more, FoD gives ~15%, and Dreamland ~33% . I'm just pulling these numbers off of loose observation though, but its typically a good rule of thumb. I'll look into more accurate numbers eventually.
There should be no difference between PAL or NTSC, though I haven't actually played PAL, throwing distance is completely dependent on FALL SPEED rather than WEIGHT. I'm pretty sure no fall speeds were changed in PAL, only weight.
The non-DI percentages are on the left. The with-DI percentages are on the right.
There should be no difference between PAL or NTSC, though I haven't actually played PAL, throwing distance is completely dependent on FALL SPEED rather than WEIGHT. I'm pretty sure no fall speeds were changed in PAL, only weight.
The non-DI percentages are on the left. The with-DI percentages are on the right.
*nods* thank you good sir.
--edit--
you wouldnt happen to have a ~ for how much lower YS is, would you?
And yeah, im not actually looking for exact numbers. I really am looking for the system cause I've been meaning to do this with a few other things. I just know that, from the few m2s i've encountered, they live by "The Magic Number".
--edit--
you wouldnt happen to have a ~ for how much lower YS is, would you?
And yeah, im not actually looking for exact numbers. I really am looking for the system cause I've been meaning to do this with a few other things. I just know that, from the few m2s i've encountered, they live by "The Magic Number".
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Do you kno off top how much lower yoshis is?
Oh yeah, forgot about yoshi's story. It's ~15-20% lower.
The Mana Lord: Sorry, not in the mood for giving Mewtwo ditto advice. For some reason, discussing how Mewtwo ***** himself seems pretty dull to me. All you really need to know is the magic number, because the match is simply... a ditto so it comes down to who builds percentage and KOs first.
The Mana Lord: Sorry, not in the mood for giving Mewtwo ditto advice. For some reason, discussing how Mewtwo ***** himself seems pretty dull to me. All you really need to know is the magic number, because the match is simply... a ditto so it comes down to who builds percentage and KOs first.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Thank you my good fellow
Anyway... I've decided to do Link and go down the tier list. The characters we've discussed(at least I've posted on) are bolded on the magic number chart.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
umm well this is how I try to handle this one.
Ok then. So I feel that link isnt too hard of a match for m2 but this can be a good fight.
watch out for projectile spams as m2 is really big and you dont wanna rack up unnecessary damage. Guard the back of m2s tail cuz the master sword hits hard. Ive had some problems with FOD which is one of my favorite stages because the platforms get in the way and I cant seem to do much with them. I feel they are more of an advantage for link in this case. I like dreamland against link because I feel m2 benefits more from the large stage because link doesnt have the best recovery.
I like to space the dtilt and do alot of regrabs in this matchup while being careful not to carelessly aerial his shield due to spin attacks and longer grab range. I usually approach with a WD grab from either a baby shadowball or a dashdance to get in and out of links extended lag times. Usually if link camps I try to keep my distance and wait for an opening and and heavy rely on the shadowballs.
Its not a bad idea to CC links ground attacks but his aerials hit a little bit harder. Also dont CC so much that you are an easy grab. With timing you can occasionally get a powershield of the arrow or boomerang which can easily lead to a grab. Downtilt, like most of m2's heavy foes can rack up massive damage(as far as m2 goes lol).
Due to link having a higher potential of being slower than most of m2s foes, disable isnt such a bad idea to keep in mind and the 1 of the only projectile confusion actually works on is link bombs(still has lag so dont be too close).
The key to this is spacing and well timed grabs. If you can do that this should be one you go into confidently.
@taj-I tend to try to keep link low to the ground because Ive had a hard time competing with him in the air. Are you usually able to go for extended combos and or use the uptilt or Uair to compete with links dair? or is the best option simple to dash dance and try to just grab when he lands?
Ok then. So I feel that link isnt too hard of a match for m2 but this can be a good fight.
watch out for projectile spams as m2 is really big and you dont wanna rack up unnecessary damage. Guard the back of m2s tail cuz the master sword hits hard. Ive had some problems with FOD which is one of my favorite stages because the platforms get in the way and I cant seem to do much with them. I feel they are more of an advantage for link in this case. I like dreamland against link because I feel m2 benefits more from the large stage because link doesnt have the best recovery.
I like to space the dtilt and do alot of regrabs in this matchup while being careful not to carelessly aerial his shield due to spin attacks and longer grab range. I usually approach with a WD grab from either a baby shadowball or a dashdance to get in and out of links extended lag times. Usually if link camps I try to keep my distance and wait for an opening and and heavy rely on the shadowballs.
Its not a bad idea to CC links ground attacks but his aerials hit a little bit harder. Also dont CC so much that you are an easy grab. With timing you can occasionally get a powershield of the arrow or boomerang which can easily lead to a grab. Downtilt, like most of m2's heavy foes can rack up massive damage(as far as m2 goes lol).
Due to link having a higher potential of being slower than most of m2s foes, disable isnt such a bad idea to keep in mind and the 1 of the only projectile confusion actually works on is link bombs(still has lag so dont be too close).
The key to this is spacing and well timed grabs. If you can do that this should be one you go into confidently.
@taj-I tend to try to keep link low to the ground because Ive had a hard time competing with him in the air. Are you usually able to go for extended combos and or use the uptilt or Uair to compete with links dair? or is the best option simple to dash dance and try to just grab when he lands?