Taj is the best Mewtwo (Ask Taj Stuff Thread)

[KAOSTAR]

Well I never do running grabs Ill tell u that.

The point of jc a grab is so that you have that slide and dont do the longer less safe dash grab.

I often WD then jc grabs because u get even more distance. but as far as for speed a standing grab is a frame or two faster then a jc grab.

if Im running ill jc grab almost always. sometimes i dash grab and sometimes I dash attack cancel grab. but those are alot more infrequent.

But to clear it up, wavegrab is not a technique. You can wavedash into grab, which is perfectly fine but sometimes u have to jc ur grabs. WHENEVER you can do a standing grab and reach them its better because of the sframe data but jc grabs are fine with or without wavedashes.

 

[TresChikon]

If you do dash(attack) grabs, what were those situations exactly and why was it more appropriate to dash(attack) grab instead of JC or WD. I can see dash attack grabs as a mind game for Doc since some people react by sound, "woo-hoo," but I can't fathom how they could be included in M2's game.

Please elaborate?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I dont remember what I said b4 but they really arent better. But the timing is different from when the grab hitbox comes out.

It is more of a mindgame because of the dash attack sound and the delay.

One thing I do like about it is that its completely stops all your momentum and what you end up doing is allowing them to run into your grab vs trying to grab them.

It should be spaced so that you wont get hit but their attack puts them into the hitbox of the grab. I do it every now and again.

m2s grab range is kinda big but you can catch attacks that are suppose to counter your appraoch, while not to mention you instantly stop approaching.

It takes a bit of practice to really use it well but its definately NOT your go to grab.

 

[TresChikon]

I see, I bet it would be good against Foxes who mindlessly spam nairs.

Thanks!

 

[KAOSTAR]

maybe but umm prob not, more like dash attacks and running upsmashes. still risky tho.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I see, I bet it would be good against Foxes who mindlessly spam nairs.

Thanks!

Mmm ... dash grab / boost grab isn't good on nair-happy Foxes (i.e., pretty much every Fox these days). DD > grab and pivot grabs are easier to get because when Fox comes to you, all you have to do is space.

 

[TresChikon]

Hate dat nairshine even though thats pretty much all I do with Fox. K, ill just have to space Fox's crappy yet speedy range.

 

[DarkMagicX2]

If I throw a fc shadowball at my opponent and he then powershields it, will the shadowball still be able to hurt me if it connects in all cases?

 

[KAOSTAR]

If you powershield any projectile and it gets back to them it will hurt you.

at far distances and most mid, the SB will disappear b4 it gets back to you.

but either way, if it gets to you, you will take knockback and damage.

both are reduced tho. I think by half.

IMO, most ppl who powershield well cant powershield the SB consistantly anyway. If you do get its its half so not that bad and its more likely they will mess up and get stuck in shield stun for an easy grab.

Only worry about firing it if they have a reflector (shine reflects do more damage veryyyy bad). chances are they will not PS it cuz of its irregularity.

 

[DarkMagicX2]

If you powershield any projectile and it gets back to them it will hurt you.

at far distances and most mid, the SB will disappear b4 it gets back to you.

but either way, if it gets to you, you will take knockback and damage.

both are reduced tho. I think by half.

IMO, most ppl who powershield well cant powershield the SB consistantly anyway. If you do get its its half so not that bad and its more likely they will mess up and get stuck in shield stun for an easy grab.

Only worry about firing it if they have a reflector (shine reflects do more damage veryyyy bad). chances are they will not PS it cuz of its irregularity.

Yes, that's what I thought too. So can I request that someone explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT4E8m_PWNk

At 2:29 in, I throw a fc shadowball, my opponent powershields it, and it clearly passes right through me before it disappears. As if it turned into a dead object like a projectile deflected with Mewtwo's confusion.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

That wasn't a power shield, just a normal shield bounce that went on an angle back towards you because of the Shadow Ball's erratic course

 

[KAOSTAR]

that was just the Sb bouncing off the shield.

You didnt get hit because the Sb was still considered yours.

I think in a teams game your partner may have gotten hit.

You have to transfer ownership to bowswer with a poweshield to get hit. This is why m2s confusion doesnt hit anyone either.

 

[Batmansince1939]

what is something that mewtwo can kinda do on everyone that is pretty effective?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Errr... uthrow?

I dunno what you're talking about. Dtilt to grab is nice.

 

[Batmansince1939]

I guess more or less something that i can clone fight just about everyone with....dthrow dtilt does seem to be that move i am looking for

and what do you do against ness'es?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Get them off the stage and keep them there.

Dtilt is a really nice approach, if you space it out and such. I meant more that you could dtilt then grab after.

 

[Batmansince1939]

are their any combo's against a ness with mewtwo?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Bread and butter stuff is down throw dtilt into fairs or nairs depending on percent. Its nothing u would need to know ahead of time you just do it.

Ness is semi floaty so dthrow dtilt> grab or fair-fair or fair nair- or fair uair.

Easiest way to beat ness is back throw and steal their jump with a bair or uair(facing either direction) and just handle the pk thunder. You can get hit use confusion on it to stop his control. Its easy to shoot a full shadowball because that will put him out of recovery range(he must grab ledge) once he has no jump.

Another quick gimp is at mid percents you dthrow and hit with sweet spot ftilt and then nair him(Di towards the stage so he shoots away from it) and punish the up b or air dodge(if he was close enough).

At mid percents-any floaties or light characters can get double and triple baired. You can also double bair to ledge cancel uair and posiibly into more bairs if you were looking for some kind of wall of pain.

You wont tech chase floaties as much with dtilt cuz they stop landing. You can often regrab and then dthrow into a pivot backair combo.

At high percents(about 100-120 ish on floaties) you can bair(weak) bair(weak) sweet spot uair for a kill

Uair is a good slow juggler(you can uair him alot and off the stage). Ness dair will not beat you and none of his other moves will help
just in general-dair works well on ness. He doesnt have much of a counter

kill non fast fallers with up throws, fairs, uairs(should be sweet spotted and reversed-Its a little before the bulb on his tail, not the tip), edgeuards

who are you trying to fight lol? why the inquiry of m2 ness?

 

[tankzortz]

why is mewtwo so low in the tier list? and yes, tiers are four queers, but im just curious

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Because Mewtwo is light and doesn't combo especially well, has problems on the approach and with killing.

Basically, he's not very good.

 

[KAOSTAR]

tiers matter.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea, I believe Mewtwo has trouble getting combos, and therefore damage, if you DI his dtilt away. He also has trouble getting kills, especially against the hard-to-grab characters. His dsmash is pretty bad, and fair just doesn't have range. Fully charged shadowball is also usually just luck if it hits.

 

[-MCT-]

And, despite all the above, a competent Mewtwo is still one of the coolest characters in the game to watch playing. I wish I could play him well...

 

[Shadow Huan]

I actually have a question. I know, i'm releasing a combo video but I'm not so "high and mighty" that I can't ask betters for help right? lol

What I am having trouble with is something quite specific. people who've watched my recent tourny matches know that I at least know how to play the character at a level a bit higher than average though I don't have the gross amount of experience others do (yet).

Anyways, an U-Throw on fox followed by a Fair is bread and butter right?

When the Fox fails to DI properly I can add a second Fair and then catch for a D-throw-techchase. (got one or two of these in my video lol...)

When they do DI, I usually Fair-nair or U-air or something unexpected like confusion. (I play a few good Foxes).

I'm wondering what the specific timing/DI requirements are for an U-Throw - Fair- catch are (Ala Taj). I can't seem to do it. I've done it like once. It annoys me lol.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Taj often does this on FD at low percents. I actually dont know how high they can be to get a fair off but to grab Its gotta be low.

upthrow and fair them after theyve fallen just a bit. The second fair should come out as your fall and closer to the ground(a little less than shorthop height if possible) and has less knockback than the upthrow which puts them at grab height.

With good DI from 0 percent, you should be able to get in 4 fair from an upthrow and then go into a tech chase. It they are high enough you can quad fair into a shadowball(fc) for a potential 0-death(that depends on their DI but its tight). You have to follow their DI correctly tho.

quad fair is kinda all or nothin. if you miss one is not as rewarding as say double fair into grab into tech chases. Its what I like do tho. I usually fair to grab using platforms. Taj just has that rythm and he does it well. I just like to make em scramble. either they get ***** or its not as good.

there are hella mixups tho as far as using upthrow confusions nairs uairs uptilts fairs SBs. just do what feels right lol.

Practice in practice mode. Note that most ppl will DI away hard so you will be fair towards them but dont over DI. If they DI into you turn around or Follow their DI away

*I always try to get that grab at 0 percent on a spacie on fd.*

 

[Shadow Huan]

The odd thing is that the Double Fair to catch doesn't work on Falco, so I'm trying the other one for that dirty bird. quad Fairs though... I gotta try that. sounds smexy.

Also I'm iffy about waiting for the first fair though that's probably my problem. I got used to trying to fair as quickly as possible because a few of the foxes I spar with @ tourny SHINE me out of the U-throw- Fair. I'm like WTF????! (One of them's J-Fox I think... or someone really ****. I'm not sure...) I don't mistime it most of the time but I'm thinking that's why they get off the shine lol. It's jarring when it happens tho.

*EDIT* just watched Vman do the Fair catch. you're right, it's done pretty effin low. >_> *goes to practice*

 

[The Prophet_]

A couple of questions to any of the Mewtwo mains:

1. Against Doc
-Is it ok to cancel Doc's pills by utilt? Is there a better way of canceling the pills with another move?

2. I have the problem of shadow clawing to fast.
-Any tips here =D besides practice? -I'm hoping for mental notes-

3. Your thoughts on shadow ball cancel to Nair on spacies at low percentages.
-Charge shadow ball for two seconds and Nair. Spacies should be knocked to the floor allowing you for an attempt to tech chase them; good or bad idea?
---------
I really need to get going with my Mewtwo so I can finish my series of An Interdimensional combo video; this is a very important series for me and is prob. going to be my favorite series that I will ever have worked on.

Thank you very much once again.

 

[SDC]

A couple of questions to any of the Mewtwo mains:

1. Against Doc
-Is it ok to cancel Doc's pills by utilt? Is there a better way of canceling the pills with another move?

2. I have the problem of shadow clawing to fast.
-Any tips here =D besides practice? -I'm hoping for mental notes-

3. Your thoughts on shadow ball cancel to Nair on spacies at low percentages.
-Charge shadow ball for two seconds and Nair. Spacies should be knocked to the floor allowing you for an attempt to tech chase them; good or bad idea?
---------
I really need to get going with my Mewtwo so I can finish my series of An Interdimensional combo video; this is a very important series for me and is prob. going to be my favorite series that I will ever have worked on.

Thank you very much once again.

Iirc, Nair cancels out pills. It's worked before, I haven't completely confirmed it myself, so if somebody could help me on this it would be appreciated. It's worked when I've tried it. Could somebody else try it to confirm it for me?
But yeah If I remember correctly all of mewtwo's tilts if timed correctly can stop a pill. Be careful though, as alot of docs like to approach with pills, so doing a tilt right before to cancel a pill may leave you open for an attack. Power shielding is always good, maybe dash dance/wavedash to a spot where you go underneath the pills which usually have a high arch, just avoid them lol.

It helps if you think of shadowclaw as a fast, immediate swipe. It comes out pretty much as you press the button, so the opportunity to use it must be apparent before you use it, that's just how I think of it, it seems to help me.
Honestly, just do/thinks whatever works for you.

Interesting, I've never tried it myself, I usually just nair immediately because it's more reliable and easier. I don't use SBC very much, as I've found nair to be more damaging and with better recoil. It sounds interesting though, I may try it out sometime.

The odd thing is that the Double Fair to catch doesn't work on Falco, so I'm trying the other one for that dirty bird. quad Fairs though... I gotta try that. sounds smexy.

Also I'm iffy about waiting for the first fair though that's probably my problem. I got used to trying to fair as quickly as possible because a few of the foxes I spar with @ tourny SHINE me out of the U-throw- Fair. I'm like WTF????! (One of them's J-Fox I think... or someone really ****. I'm not sure...) I don't mistime it most of the time but I'm thinking that's why they get off the shine lol. It's jarring when it happens tho.

*EDIT* just watched Vman do the Fair catch. you're right, it's done pretty effin low. >_> *goes to practice*

The timing for upthrow-->shadowclaw-->shadowclaw is very tight, must be executed precisely, and only works reliably if you read their DI. Shadowclaw-->nair is much easier, but not nearly as satisfying. If you are able to land the second shadowclaw, I like DJCshadowclaw to bounce them back into the air, but grab-->techchase is nice too.

 

[The Prophet_]

Iirc, Nair cancels out pills. It's worked before, I haven't completely confirmed it myself, so if somebody could help me on this it would be appreciated. It's worked when I've tried it. Could somebody else try it to confirm it for me?
But yeah If I remember correctly all of mewtwo's tilts if timed correctly can stop a pill. Be careful though, as alot of docs like to approach with pills, so doing a tilt right before to cancel a pill may leave you open for an attack. Power shielding is always good, maybe dash dance/wavedash to a spot where you go underneath the pills which usually have a high arch, just avoid them lol.

It helps if you think of shadowclaw as a fast, immediate swipe. It comes out pretty much as you press the button, so the opportunity to use it must be apparent before you use it, that's just how I think of it, it seems to help me.
Honestly, just do/thinks whatever works for you.

Interesting, I've never tried it myself, I usually just nair immediately because it's more reliable and easier. I don't use SBC very much, as I've found nair to be more damaging and with better recoil. It sounds interesting though, I may try it out sometime.

1. What is Iirc?

2. That works thanks.

3. I usually start this by uthrow then by regrabbing to bthrow them. It builts up the right amount of damage for them to bounce of the floor or tech on the floor. Then I just follow their tech by using Mewtwo's awesome wavedash to a quick turn around so that I can Shadow ball for two seconds and cancel it to a DJC Nair. The Nair will knock them on the floor once again and I'll just tech chase to what ever follow up I want.

-Thanks for your help!

----------

Whats the thought on uthrow to regrab to bthrow then DJC Nair to SC to full hop Nair to Bair?
-I think that DIing the Nair 285 degrees counter clockwise is easy; or DIng diagonally downwards with a Nair as soon as Full Hop is executed, which is then followed by a Bair.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Iirc, Nair cancels out pills. It's worked before, I haven't completely confirmed it myself, so if somebody could help me on this it would be appreciated. It's worked when I've tried it. Could somebody else try it to confirm it for me?

Eh, I wouldn't NAir. The hitboxes on NAir are kinda wonky for reliable projectile counters...but it is better than using a tilt.

I would powershield or just stand in a safe spot and camp until you read his approach.
-DD

 

[forward]

I played mewtwo the other day and lost. I wouldn't have lost if I was Taj. Taj is the best mewtwo.

 

[DelxDoom]

I never win with mewtwo ever.

I don't think anyone does except Taj.

I mean it was like I was playing doubles and we were doing double Fox vs double Mewtwo friendlies, and Mewtwo(two) lost again.

You know?

 

[The Prophet_]

Eh, I wouldn't NAir. The hitboxes on NAir are kinda wonky for reliable projectile counters...but it is better than using a tilt.

I would powershield or just stand in a safe spot and camp until you read his approach.
-DD

Considered.
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I still don't know what Iirc means; some Mewtwo main has to tell me.
-----------
Thanks for the advice so far guys.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Nair is excellent in countering docs pills if he is also approaching him. Its really hard for him to hit you during the nair since he pretty much attacks with his own hands and feet.

Where you have to be careful is if doc is baiting a nair. He can punish you decently upon exiting the nair with almost anything if he times it right.

Rule of thumb is if he runs away then WD oos (out of shield) and chase him with tilts until you can knock him down for a chase or straight into a grab.
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iirc=if I recal

the SBC is a pretty cool trick. But its just a trick. You have to know when to use it and dont try to spam it. I use it, and on more than just spacies. what you do out of it depends on where they are when they are at high enough percent to jump out or mash an aerial in.

If they are above you-uptilt, nair, djc uair
behind you-grab, dtilt
in front-just fire the dam sb, grab, dtilt, ftilt

If you want to go into a chase then you should just grab out of sbc because there are many more option out of it. Of course dont rule the nair out because with m2 you gotta mix it up but grabbing or hitting them with the full sb are the best options.(dont forget to spark when you grab and you should get more than 15 which is about nairs max)
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I wouldnt try to powershield docs pills because they are of so low priorty that any move he is doing during his approach will merk the half damage pills anyway.

They are slow and not much threat if you play your cards right. dont fall into the shield trap trying to powershield.

 

[Shadow Huan]

I never win with mewtwo ever.

I don't think anyone does except Taj.

I mean it was like I was playing doubles and we were doing double Fox vs double Mewtwo friendlies, and Mewtwo(two) lost again.

You know?

yeah it sucks, but Vectorman has won with Mewtwo, and I've won some in tourny matches, and I'm sure that Kaos has as well. we have to work 10 times as hard though lmao.

*Which is why he mains Marth*

 

[KAOSTAR]

A really nice mindgame with m2:

charge your sb for about 1.8 seconds instead of leaving it full. This way you dont lose any options:

1. If fired right away its still 20 damage and ok knockback

2. It takes a very short amount of time to get it to full charge.

3. You can still shadowball charge with it

The mindgames with it pretty much are:
1. They dont know you have an almost fc sb because your hand isnt purple.

2. If they see you shooting it they will shield if they can because its not a little one.

3. It doesnt charge right away so you can just cancel it just after pulling it out which adds to the fear. They dont know if you are going to shoot it, reverse shadowball charge, or cancel it into something else

basically jump at them and hit b then cancel it and grab. The next time shoot it cuz they may think you are gonna do that again and try to counter.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I never win with mewtwo ever.

I don't think anyone does except Taj.

Iori beasts people, too.

 

[The Prophet_]

A really nice mindgame with m2:

charge your sb for about 1.8 seconds instead of leaving it full. This way you dont lose any options:

1. If fired right away its still 20 damage and ok knockback

2. It takes a very short amount of time to get it to full charge.

3. You can still shadowball charge with it

The mindgames with it pretty much are:
1. They dont know you have an almost fc sb because your hand isnt purple.

2. If they see you shooting it they will shield if they can because its not a little one.

3. It doesnt charge right away so you can just cancel it just after pulling it out which adds to the fear. They dont know if you are going to shoot it, reverse shadowball charge, or cancel it into something else

basically jump at them and hit b then cancel it and grab. The next time shoot it cuz they may think you are gonna do that again and try to counter.

Thank! I like your advice btw =D

The shadow ball cancel in front of them is such a cool mindgame! Will do!

 

[SDC]

Nair is excellent in countering docs pills if he is also approaching him. Its really hard for him to hit you during the nair since he pretty much attacks with his own hands and feet.

Where you have to be careful is if doc is baiting a nair. He can punish you decently upon exiting the nair with almost anything if he times it right.

Rule of thumb is if he runs away then WD oos (out of shield) and chase him with tilts until you can knock him down for a chase or straight into a grab.
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iirc=if I recal

the SBC is a pretty cool trick. But its just a trick. You have to know when to use it and dont try to spam it. I use it, and on more than just spacies. what you do out of it depends on where they are when they are at high enough percent to jump out or mash an aerial in.

If they are above you-uptilt, nair, djc uair
behind you-grab, dtilt
in front-just fire the dam sb, grab, dtilt, ftilt

If you want to go into a chase then you should just grab out of sbc because there are many more option out of it. Of course dont rule the nair out because with m2 you gotta mix it up but grabbing or hitting them with the full sb are the best options.(dont forget to spark when you grab and you should get more than 15 which is about nairs max)
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I wouldnt try to powershield docs pills because they are of so low priorty that any move he is doing during his approach will merk the half damage pills anyway.

They are slow and not much threat if you play your cards right. dont fall into the shield trap trying to powershield.

Thanks for confirming my advice lol, and also good suggestions.

A really nice mindgame with m2:

charge your sb for about 1.8 seconds instead of leaving it full. This way you dont lose any options:

1. If fired right away its still 20 damage and ok knockback

2. It takes a very short amount of time to get it to full charge.

3. You can still shadowball charge with it

The mindgames with it pretty much are:
1. They dont know you have an almost fc sb because your hand isnt purple.

2. If they see you shooting it they will shield if they can because its not a little one.

3. It doesnt charge right away so you can just cancel it just after pulling it out which adds to the fear. They dont know if you are going to shoot it, reverse shadowball charge, or cancel it into something else

basically jump at them and hit b then cancel it and grab. The next time shoot it cuz they may think you are gonna do that again and try to counter.

Nice idea, interesting. I need to be more creative with my play, that will come with time

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey is there a solid use for shadowba;; trun around cancels? like how fox shines to bair nthe way he was faceing. DOn't know I though about bair fair being doable from this it would be really cool.