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Swanky's Sideshow: Diddy Kong Video Arkive and Kritique Thread
- Thread starter GuruKid
- Start date
MToaste
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 14
I picked up PM a year ago, as of last Saturday actually! Dabbled with friends for a while before that, but hadn't started learning competitively until then. I mainly played Falco until I decided to give Diddy a shot, but I've never had an opportunity to play Melee or Brawl competitively prior to this.
Is this Silly Kyle?
I recognize Silly Kyle in Brawl, but I haven't seen videos of his play in PM yet. I did feel this Peach went down a bit too easily...
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Can you guys help out my Diddy?
I watched the videos, it's the first time that I've watched my own Diddy on youtube (first time recorded actually).
Hashtag vs K9 (Metaknight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMgOHoWWFYo
Hashtag vs Tai (Marth/Fox) parts 1 and 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8jNcTJWa8
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OhscXRYRHOM
I've already critiqued myself but, I wanna see what other Diddy's notice. (No need to point out suicides, a lot of people SD'd that night). I also feel i need to be using more projectiles, I've only been using Diddy for a little over a month and that was my third tournament with him. Got 5th at this one, didn't do to bad but I know I can do a lot better, and I think that comes with me getting more used to diddy as time goes by as well.
I watched the videos, it's the first time that I've watched my own Diddy on youtube (first time recorded actually).
Hashtag vs K9 (Metaknight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMgOHoWWFYo
Hashtag vs Tai (Marth/Fox) parts 1 and 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8jNcTJWa8
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OhscXRYRHOM
I've already critiqued myself but, I wanna see what other Diddy's notice. (No need to point out suicides, a lot of people SD'd that night). I also feel i need to be using more projectiles, I've only been using Diddy for a little over a month and that was my third tournament with him. Got 5th at this one, didn't do to bad but I know I can do a lot better, and I think that comes with me getting more used to diddy as time goes by as well.
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DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
A few things I noticed...
- Try AGTing up more when you're recovering with a banana, even if it's not necessary to reach the stage. It makes diddy's job a lot easier and opens up more recovery options when you're coming into the stage higher.
- Against fast fallers, Uthrow combos into a lot of stuff at low/mid percents... you usually opted for the Dthrow tech chase. Which works too, but it may not be as effective. Also, a great man (Oro?!) told me last night that the main objective when fighting spacies is often to find a move that pops them straight up (Nair in our case) and use it a lot, then combo them to death whenever it lands. Against quick fastfallers like Fox, MK, and Falcon, it's often going to be hard to hit them with bananas so your neutral game needs to be strong...try to land Nairs whenever you can so you can wreck their ****.
- Something I saw you do that I do a lot too is go for hard Fsmash reads when the opponent is shielding. It's something that I'm trying to cut back on because, even though it's satisfying when it works, I usually don't get it against good players who know better than to roll and I usually get punished for it. So you might want to think about doing the same.
- Something I've been doing a lot to edgeguard MKs who drill rush straight at the ledge is just walk to the ledge and charge barrels, then let go when they touch the ledge. It spikes them very often and the hype generated is undeniable.
- I liked your spacing in general and how you move around on platforms, very smooth.
- Use more monkey flip IMO, it's really good. Also Usmash is really good on spacies.
I feel like our Diddies are very similar. I'm also in the same boat where I feel like I need to use more projectiles. I've been getting better at having bananas out but it still can be a bit of an issue. The thing is, I don't think it's as important as a lot of Diddies make it out to be. Bananas were a much bigger part of Brawl Diddy's game IMO because it was a lot easier to pull bananas out due to the slow speed, and easier to utilize them properly because characters were slower and easier to react to. I think in this environment, relying on bananas too much can be dangerous because pulling them out can be unwieldy, and retrieving them can be dangerous because characters are so fast and a lot of them have projectiles that they can combo you out of and do lots of damage to you. I feel that Diddy has a very strong moveset in PM even without bananas, and it's often wise to err on the side of caution if you need to spawn or retrieve a banana. So while I think Diddy is definitely better with bananas, especially in a few areas like his OoS game and recovery, you definitely shouldn't neglect his neutral game either. There is plenty of merit in going at your opponent without bananas if you're feeling yourself. Don't forget all of the stuff you can't do with a banana in your hand.
At any rate, I had a tournament last night and I also got 5th, beating a few good players including Lazarond. I have a few videos that should be uploaded soon, I'll post em here when they're up.
- Try AGTing up more when you're recovering with a banana, even if it's not necessary to reach the stage. It makes diddy's job a lot easier and opens up more recovery options when you're coming into the stage higher.
- Against fast fallers, Uthrow combos into a lot of stuff at low/mid percents... you usually opted for the Dthrow tech chase. Which works too, but it may not be as effective. Also, a great man (Oro?!) told me last night that the main objective when fighting spacies is often to find a move that pops them straight up (Nair in our case) and use it a lot, then combo them to death whenever it lands. Against quick fastfallers like Fox, MK, and Falcon, it's often going to be hard to hit them with bananas so your neutral game needs to be strong...try to land Nairs whenever you can so you can wreck their ****.
- Something I saw you do that I do a lot too is go for hard Fsmash reads when the opponent is shielding. It's something that I'm trying to cut back on because, even though it's satisfying when it works, I usually don't get it against good players who know better than to roll and I usually get punished for it. So you might want to think about doing the same.
- Something I've been doing a lot to edgeguard MKs who drill rush straight at the ledge is just walk to the ledge and charge barrels, then let go when they touch the ledge. It spikes them very often and the hype generated is undeniable.
- I liked your spacing in general and how you move around on platforms, very smooth.
- Use more monkey flip IMO, it's really good. Also Usmash is really good on spacies.
I feel like our Diddies are very similar. I'm also in the same boat where I feel like I need to use more projectiles. I've been getting better at having bananas out but it still can be a bit of an issue. The thing is, I don't think it's as important as a lot of Diddies make it out to be. Bananas were a much bigger part of Brawl Diddy's game IMO because it was a lot easier to pull bananas out due to the slow speed, and easier to utilize them properly because characters were slower and easier to react to. I think in this environment, relying on bananas too much can be dangerous because pulling them out can be unwieldy, and retrieving them can be dangerous because characters are so fast and a lot of them have projectiles that they can combo you out of and do lots of damage to you. I feel that Diddy has a very strong moveset in PM even without bananas, and it's often wise to err on the side of caution if you need to spawn or retrieve a banana. So while I think Diddy is definitely better with bananas, especially in a few areas like his OoS game and recovery, you definitely shouldn't neglect his neutral game either. There is plenty of merit in going at your opponent without bananas if you're feeling yourself. Don't forget all of the stuff you can't do with a banana in your hand.
At any rate, I had a tournament last night and I also got 5th, beating a few good players including Lazarond. I have a few videos that should be uploaded soon, I'll post em here when they're up.
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Thanks for the feedback!
I definitely need to cut back on f-smashes, and opt for more up throws on fast fallers. I find myself favoring tech chase situations to much with d-throws. I do need to vary between the two as well as more pummels and forward/back throws near the ledges.
I usually try and combo the he'll out of fast fallers. I also need to use diddy's up b more as well. All the stuff you pointed out I agree with. K9 is n) # 2 or # 3 on the pm pr for AZ (neon is #1) and Tai is #2 or #3 for melee pr in the state so I did pretty good for not having played diddy for too long. (I should have beaten Tai though, at least that's how I feel).
I feel like I should use more items passively as well as aggressively. Looking to have better awareness and transition between the two. I do feel you are right about diddy's strong move set and the less dependence on banana play. I do feel though, is you can master both with and without banana play, that's when diddy will really shine. Have yet to see that diddy yet though.
I definitely need to cut back on f-smashes, and opt for more up throws on fast fallers. I find myself favoring tech chase situations to much with d-throws. I do need to vary between the two as well as more pummels and forward/back throws near the ledges.
I usually try and combo the he'll out of fast fallers. I also need to use diddy's up b more as well. All the stuff you pointed out I agree with. K9 is n) # 2 or # 3 on the pm pr for AZ (neon is #1) and Tai is #2 or #3 for melee pr in the state so I did pretty good for not having played diddy for too long. (I should have beaten Tai though, at least that's how I feel).
I feel like I should use more items passively as well as aggressively. Looking to have better awareness and transition between the two. I do feel you are right about diddy's strong move set and the less dependence on banana play. I do feel though, is you can master both with and without banana play, that's when diddy will really shine. Have yet to see that diddy yet though.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Yeah for sure. I'm not sure when we're getting these videos uploaded to youtube but if anyone wants to see my sets from this week, go to this Twitch archive:
http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/512593146
vs. Lazarond @ 1:55:00 <-- my favorite set of the night
vs. Kels @ 1:02:00
vs. Orly <-- http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/512625048 very first match
vs. Double
I'm really happy with how I did against Lazarond and Double, who are our best Link and Lucario respectively. Lazarond took Pink Fresh out of winners (and almost losers) and got 5th at Xanadu this week, just to give you a perspective on how good a player he is. I've beaten him before but I don't think he really knew much about Diddy, so I'm happy I won this one after he's gotten some experience by beating me a few times.
Kels and ORLY, on the other hand, showed me a lot of things I need to improve on. Kels is Chicago's best Melee player (maybe even the midwest's best Melee player) and either our best or 2nd best PM player, and ORLY is also one of our best Melee/PM players. Fighting them made me realize that I really need to work on comboing fast fallers. I just couldn't get anything going against them. ORLY didn't know anything about Diddy but he just beat me by outplaying me. Falcon vs. Diddy feels like a tough matchup for Diddy too--bananas are less effective when you try to throw them at a Nair coming straight at your face from across the stage.
Anyways let me know what you guys think.
http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/512593146
vs. Lazarond @ 1:55:00 <-- my favorite set of the night
vs. Kels @ 1:02:00
vs. Orly <-- http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/512625048 very first match
vs. Double
I'm really happy with how I did against Lazarond and Double, who are our best Link and Lucario respectively. Lazarond took Pink Fresh out of winners (and almost losers) and got 5th at Xanadu this week, just to give you a perspective on how good a player he is. I've beaten him before but I don't think he really knew much about Diddy, so I'm happy I won this one after he's gotten some experience by beating me a few times.
Kels and ORLY, on the other hand, showed me a lot of things I need to improve on. Kels is Chicago's best Melee player (maybe even the midwest's best Melee player) and either our best or 2nd best PM player, and ORLY is also one of our best Melee/PM players. Fighting them made me realize that I really need to work on comboing fast fallers. I just couldn't get anything going against them. ORLY didn't know anything about Diddy but he just beat me by outplaying me. Falcon vs. Diddy feels like a tough matchup for Diddy too--bananas are less effective when you try to throw them at a Nair coming straight at your face from across the stage.
Anyways let me know what you guys think.
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MToaste
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 14
I really like the way you handle your bananas, especially in the air! There were some real innovative and clever glide-tosses and peanut/banana pressures that I have never thought of before. Nice to see a video of the banana re-grab after hitting somebody thing I've been hearing about, that looks pretty effective.
One thing I repeatedly felt was that you weren't getting much off your techs & reads, at least versus Lazarond and Orly. You seem to be dependant on avoiding having your opponent tech and don't go for many reads, and thus possibly missing out on a lot of percent and sweet combos when you could be getting more out of your punishes You didn't seem like you were prioritizing grabs where I felt would have been the best option to get the most control, so from my perspective that might be something you can work on.
As an example of what I'm talking about, try experimenting with more down-throw tech chase combos like I do here in this game: (http://youtu.be/4i31dIdvVUg?t=4m36s)
Also, I agree that Falcon is a tough matchup. I personally have found it the most difficult matchup to play thus far. Baiting the nair approach and punishing instead of treating your bananas as a priority has been working for me.
One thing I repeatedly felt was that you weren't getting much off your techs & reads, at least versus Lazarond and Orly. You seem to be dependant on avoiding having your opponent tech and don't go for many reads, and thus possibly missing out on a lot of percent and sweet combos when you could be getting more out of your punishes You didn't seem like you were prioritizing grabs where I felt would have been the best option to get the most control, so from my perspective that might be something you can work on.
As an example of what I'm talking about, try experimenting with more down-throw tech chase combos like I do here in this game: (http://youtu.be/4i31dIdvVUg?t=4m36s)
Also, I agree that Falcon is a tough matchup. I personally have found it the most difficult matchup to play thus far. Baiting the nair approach and punishing instead of treating your bananas as a priority has been working for me.
@
DLA
Against Falcon; I don't want to say forgo the banana game but, I feel you tried to crutch on it in that fight. Falcon is too fast and he wants to be in your face which stops you from using a lot of banana tricks. Against falcon, I feel as though you should fight fire with fire once you get your hit confirm in. His N-air and U-air beat ours, but once we get a hit in i find we can combo almost just as well as he can and our punish game can be almost a brutal. Mainly because Falcon's recovery is not as solid as Diddy's. Both characters want to set up for F-Air. This match, to me atleast (playing the good falcons around here) a tech chase fight. Whoever has the better reads/combos/finishers/edge guards will win.
As for using bananas against Falcon, I find just pulling them out and using them passively for the most part works, as it can disrupt him quite a bit. Also, if he goes for them, he's not comboing you and you only have to worry about his down b, Side b and up b (if he's feeling ballsy). Most of the time, he will opt to get rid of the banana or throw it straight at you. Also, only really worry about the banana's if they "just so happen to be there" , if you know what i mean. If you can use it immediately and push to extend your combo or keep your favorable advantage (or trap him). Use the grab-up throw you were talking about. I used that the other day on some fast fallers and it did wonders, honestly. Especially if you're already good at comboing that weight class.
I think you did a really good job against that lucario, Still could have gotten more solid Tech chase reads, like Mtoaste said but I really enjoyed watching that. That lucario was pretty good.
I, for some ungodly reason, could not find your match with Kels lol.
DLA
Against Falcon; I don't want to say forgo the banana game but, I feel you tried to crutch on it in that fight. Falcon is too fast and he wants to be in your face which stops you from using a lot of banana tricks. Against falcon, I feel as though you should fight fire with fire once you get your hit confirm in. His N-air and U-air beat ours, but once we get a hit in i find we can combo almost just as well as he can and our punish game can be almost a brutal. Mainly because Falcon's recovery is not as solid as Diddy's. Both characters want to set up for F-Air. This match, to me atleast (playing the good falcons around here) a tech chase fight. Whoever has the better reads/combos/finishers/edge guards will win.
As for using bananas against Falcon, I find just pulling them out and using them passively for the most part works, as it can disrupt him quite a bit. Also, if he goes for them, he's not comboing you and you only have to worry about his down b, Side b and up b (if he's feeling ballsy). Most of the time, he will opt to get rid of the banana or throw it straight at you. Also, only really worry about the banana's if they "just so happen to be there" , if you know what i mean. If you can use it immediately and push to extend your combo or keep your favorable advantage (or trap him). Use the grab-up throw you were talking about. I used that the other day on some fast fallers and it did wonders, honestly. Especially if you're already good at comboing that weight class.
I think you did a really good job against that lucario, Still could have gotten more solid Tech chase reads, like Mtoaste said but I really enjoyed watching that. That lucario was pretty good.
I, for some ungodly reason, could not find your match with Kels lol.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate it. You didn't miss much with the Kels match, it was basically like the Orly match but worse. Lots of shine gimps.
I have two tournaments in the next week so hopefully I'll get some more matches up. In the mean time I'll definitely work on my tech chases. I'm usually really good at them, I guess it's just a matter of actually going for them with Diddy.
I have two tournaments in the next week so hopefully I'll get some more matches up. In the mean time I'll definitely work on my tech chases. I'm usually really good at them, I guess it's just a matter of actually going for them with Diddy.
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
Just for the archive, here are some sets from a tourney i went to on Saturday. It was my first time ever winning a tourney that wasn't like a local in my scene so it was pretty fulfilling. It was probably the best I've played to date.
TL:DR use more Nair
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=277m30s vs Best Friend John (Luigi)
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=291m vs Blondie (Fox/Mario/Sheik) WFs
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=388m vs Jake13 (Fox/Falco/Marth) GFs
TL:DR use more Nair
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=277m30s vs Best Friend John (Luigi)
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=291m vs Blondie (Fox/Mario/Sheik) WFs
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/513371041?t=388m vs Jake13 (Fox/Falco/Marth) GFs
These links don't seem to work?
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
nooooooooooooooooooo. The archive was removed :/
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Goddamn I choke so hard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dLI6Bddru0
how to crushed Ivy? I'm so salty about that character. Intellectually I know Diddy should win, I just can't keep my head on straight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dLI6Bddru0
how to crushed Ivy? I'm so salty about that character. Intellectually I know Diddy should win, I just can't keep my head on straight
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SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Always use the Google Twitch downloader and then upload the files to your youtube as unlisted
Pick a character with better vert kill power. Ivy is weal to it.
Seriously, I have trouble with ivy too.
MToaste
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 14
I would suggest using more bananas and peanuts to approach in neutral, much of the time it looked like you kinda neglecting them.That Ivy just kinda walled you out because of that, I think. I imagine it's similar to fighting Link, Lucas, or any other character that has an excellent projectile game where you just have to out-pressure them and show 'em who has the better projectile.
You're always more of a threat when you have a banana in your hand.
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 390
Anyone who can point out some good videos that a new diddy should study?
Watch some videos of Abtract logic and Guy to learn aggressive Diddy and how to apply pressure/combo like a falcon. Watch some Disqo vids of you want to watch some smart/patient play and how to cover options really efficiently. Look at my vids for what not to do >.>
Don't have specific vids but there are tons in this thread
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MToaste
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 14
Just curious, did anybody watch any of the videos I posted a while back? Nobody really said anything, but I suppose I didn't ask for feedback either, heh.
This game against KatyP's Donkey Kong is probably the best video I have of my Diddy so far:
http://youtu.be/4i31dIdvVUg?t=3m42s
What do you guys think? How can I improve, what did I do well with? Thanks!
This game against KatyP's Donkey Kong is probably the best video I have of my Diddy so far:
http://youtu.be/4i31dIdvVUg?t=3m42s
What do you guys think? How can I improve, what did I do well with? Thanks!
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
You have a very solid Diddy overall, you seemed very aware of your options and the appropriate followups during your match. One thing I'd say you could improve on is going a bit deeper into your banana game and learn/utilize the ATs more often. AGT is a ridiculous option in this game--you could have 4 stocked that DK if you put more banana pressure on him.
What's up Diddy boards, usually around the squirtle and Yoshi boards, but I dabbled with Diddy at my last friendly fest and figured I could get some critique. Thanks in advance everyone.
http://www.twitch.tv/fluxwolf/b/517390469 first match is 16:20, second is 1:43:40, third 3:51:31 and the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh all directly follow. The fourth match I warn is an extremely slow match against a super campy Link so the ending was oooooohhh so sweet. Thanks again
http://www.twitch.tv/fluxwolf/b/517390469 first match is 16:20, second is 1:43:40, third 3:51:31 and the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh all directly follow. The fourth match I warn is an extremely slow match against a super campy Link so the ending was oooooohhh so sweet. Thanks again
For those that haven't seen it yet, I think Boss vs Chillindude is the best display of Diddy play I have seen to date.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wScevIQHfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wScevIQHfA
Okay, so the videos from the tournament I won this weekend haven't been uploaded yet, but I got together with some personal friends and we held our own tournament. It's not the "real" Smash scene, none of these players have been to a proper tournament, there wasn't a cash prize, but the best player in the group, MaBoi, is a Mango-like natural. Despite never having been to a tournament he can play a half dozen characters at tournament level. And his brother Phatty is also good enough for tournaments. I have a bit of a mental block against MaBoi and would like some analysis help.
There were actually 24 entrants in this "friendly" tournament, surprisingly. All personal friends of mine, but the top half of them take the game much more seriously than casuals. We actually streamed it and had commentators, but hilariously, the commentators didn't have their microphone plugged in right and none of the commentary got recorded.
My play this day was not as good as the day I won the local ("real") tournament, but I should show the good and the bad for critiques. You may want to skip the first match of every set I play and start the critique from the second; I seem to have to flub and kill myself missing inputs on the first match of every set in each of these videos.
MaBoi mains Link, but did not pull him out except for crews. He's who I need help overcoming.
Starting from best opponent:
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs MaBoi (Roy) Winners Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt9ZS2rWsXg
(Game 1 I get bodied)
WDDS Tourney 4: MaBoi (Falco) vs Praxis (Marth/Diddy) Grand Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mciRINBfp8
(Game 1 I go Marth, not worth watching. Not sure why one of MaBoi's wins is missing, the last game on this video is probably a sandbag.)
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Phatty (Peach/Pit) Loser's Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TE5lzsQW-s
(Anyone got any tips vs Peach?)
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Garr (Zelda) Game 1 [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0eN57x916Q
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Garr (Zelda) Game 2 [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN6af-Q28Tw
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Jerd (Dedede) [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk7igSxiKLg
The biggest observation of my own-
* I struggle to do two bairs out of a short hop, but attempt to all the time and get punished, either by doing an empty jump (X + C-stick too soon), an accidental JC grab (pressing X+A too fast), or diving in to their shield but hitting the ground next to them before my attack comes out. In Brawl I'm used to buffering attacks out of my jump animation (for example, pressing X+A while shielding does a buffered nair OOS in Brawl, but jump cancels a grab in PM), so in PM I either screw this up by doing it too fast, or wait too long to do the aerial.
* I get a bit predictable in my recovery when I am just barely too far away to reach the ledge. I don't want to drop and up-B for fear of being edge guarded in that time, so I tend to make a really obvious side-B that gets hit. Need to figure out how to handle this positioning.
There were actually 24 entrants in this "friendly" tournament, surprisingly. All personal friends of mine, but the top half of them take the game much more seriously than casuals. We actually streamed it and had commentators, but hilariously, the commentators didn't have their microphone plugged in right and none of the commentary got recorded.
My play this day was not as good as the day I won the local ("real") tournament, but I should show the good and the bad for critiques. You may want to skip the first match of every set I play and start the critique from the second; I seem to have to flub and kill myself missing inputs on the first match of every set in each of these videos.
MaBoi mains Link, but did not pull him out except for crews. He's who I need help overcoming.
Starting from best opponent:
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs MaBoi (Roy) Winners Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt9ZS2rWsXg
(Game 1 I get bodied)
WDDS Tourney 4: MaBoi (Falco) vs Praxis (Marth/Diddy) Grand Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mciRINBfp8
(Game 1 I go Marth, not worth watching. Not sure why one of MaBoi's wins is missing, the last game on this video is probably a sandbag.)
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Phatty (Peach/Pit) Loser's Finals [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TE5lzsQW-s
(Anyone got any tips vs Peach?)
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Garr (Zelda) Game 1 [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0eN57x916Q
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Garr (Zelda) Game 2 [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN6af-Q28Tw
WDDS Tourney #4: Praxis (Diddy) vs Jerd (Dedede) [PM]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk7igSxiKLg
The biggest observation of my own-
* I struggle to do two bairs out of a short hop, but attempt to all the time and get punished, either by doing an empty jump (X + C-stick too soon), an accidental JC grab (pressing X+A too fast), or diving in to their shield but hitting the ground next to them before my attack comes out. In Brawl I'm used to buffering attacks out of my jump animation (for example, pressing X+A while shielding does a buffered nair OOS in Brawl, but jump cancels a grab in PM), so in PM I either screw this up by doing it too fast, or wait too long to do the aerial.
* I get a bit predictable in my recovery when I am just barely too far away to reach the ledge. I don't want to drop and up-B for fear of being edge guarded in that time, so I tend to make a really obvious side-B that gets hit. Need to figure out how to handle this positioning.
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Haha ok, if you watch just one set, watch the MaBoi Falco one starting from game 2. That's the one I posted in the Diddy chat (link starting at match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mciRINBfp8&t=203 ). Thank you
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One of the people I played against on Netplay streamed our matches, if you guys could take a look and critique I'd be grateful. I play 5 or so matches as Diddy (I changed because it seems like people only like to tolerate Diddy for so long, hehe) against DK, Link, and Zelda. Matches start at about 0:02:00- http://www.twitch.tv/ark_yakman/b/518042091
One thing I noticed off the bat is that I need to learn to AGT.
One thing I noticed off the bat is that I need to learn to AGT.
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@
Soft Serve
in case you forgot, you said you might lol
Soft Serve
in case you forgot, you said you might lol
I've watched/taken notes on the first 4 matches, I'll type it up after I finish the last few, watch the Nintendo Direct, and run some arrends. I like what I see so far though, I think you could convert a bit harder when you get them off stage in some matchups, but I like your tech chases in most of the sets and your item game@
Thanks for the feedback, tbh I've dabbled with Diddy, but this was my first time using him against decent players. I like how he feels though and I feel like I could do well with a little more practice with timing punishes. Lookin forward to whatever else you've got to say.
@
didds
KK so I'll just put stuff in a spoiler.
Generally it was good, your stage control was simple and effective and so was your tech chasing
you really really need to pressure peoples recovery more though. Even if its just shooting popgun and grabbing the ledge, you'd get ALOT more stocks than just letting people on for free (unless thats like a personal/honor code thing you do). It would help you convert some of your stage pressure and combo game (Which is already good) and turn them into stocks instead of just wracking up percent and returning to neutral.
It looked really good, I just think you could convert harder on your hit confirms if you would just pressure them at the ledge more. Diddy does have a decent gimp game even if he can't go too far off stage. just grab the ledge more!
Also, as your opponents develop more counterplay to bananas some of your set-ups wont work as much.
The last match is a good example, the MK started taking the bananas for himself when you left them out/pulled them out towards him, and he teched the trips at the right times. For example your glide Toss > dsmash that you used to get a lot of your kills wont work reliably if they start to built the habit to tech roll away when you trip them.
All in all it was solid and you have really good fundamentals on stage. Your diddy looks a lot better than mine in most regards haha.
just try to at least grab the ledge more. By doing so you might not guarentee time to get bananas out if you mess up, but stocks >>> everything else
didds
KK so I'll just put stuff in a spoiler.
Generally it was good, your stage control was simple and effective and so was your tech chasing
you really really need to pressure peoples recovery more though. Even if its just shooting popgun and grabbing the ledge, you'd get ALOT more stocks than just letting people on for free (unless thats like a personal/honor code thing you do). It would help you convert some of your stage pressure and combo game (Which is already good) and turn them into stocks instead of just wracking up percent and returning to neutral.
match 1: vs M2 on Wario ware
You shield grabbed a lot at first but stopped doing it to much latter on
you missed most of the platform tech chases, try just nairing them on reaction to their get up option, at the very worst they shield it and you jump away/fast fall it
I liked your Dtilt to grab stuff, and your options coverage when you have pressure
Glide Toss on shield > max ranged jab catching an OoS option > fsmash was nice and caught him with bad DI (i think he was going to try to CC the gentleman?) and got an early kill
I Think you need to try to convert harder and go for more horizontal hits as opposed to juggles, Juggling M2 is really hard with his jump/floatyness/teleport
Coming down agaisnt M2 is really hard, I honestly don't have an idea what to do about that. Go for a larger stage and side-b around above him i guess
match 2: shiek on battle field
I liked your counterplay to him platform needle camping, multiple times you FH popgun and the threw the banana up between the platforms and caught him jumping, you got some decent percent confirming off of it later in the match. It kept him grounded more than shiek would want to be in the matchup i think.
You play a lot of Melee I think, because this was the only set where you actually pressured the ledge and took control of it, because you knew how to deal with shieks recovery. In other matchups if they are forced to recover low go ahead and just grab ledge. You did drop a few easy ledge guards that would have been a stock if you just held onto the ledge until you forced shiek to go on stage
you're conversions and tech chases were good in this one, you have good item play as well.
I would recomend CCing more against shiek, you didn't really do it at all until your last stock
Match 3: Lylat vs ZSS
Good Dtilt conversions again, and confimed stocks more in your combos. I think it was because you kept her grounded and got more DA> fairs than the other matches
be more confident on your punished of missed tether grabs, you hesistated. Just go for the side-b/grab/smash/fair/dair that you know you want to do. Also, react/be more decisive on your combos after side-b A.
I liked your bair usage in combos and tech strings a lot in this match.
Match 4: Campy link on FD
Okay first dont let em go to FD
you had a really strong start with stage control, you should aim to replecate that situation more throughout all your matches (two bananas infront of them while they are in shield/grounded near the ledge). you didn't maintain it or convert much off of it though.
You really need to challenge recoveries or stocks will keep going on forever like his first one did. against link you can bair/fair/uair him from below/infront and dair him from behind/above. Because of the angle he spins his sword at you want to hit the back of his head or his legs/crotch.
Grab ledge more and force them to at least put effort into their recovery, a lot of the time you would bair him off stage then run to the other side and just pull your bananas
You did good and punished most of his jump forward >protectiles with a glide toss
Try to set up your "counter camp" a bit closer to him. You did a good job weaving through the bullet hell though. Bananas > popguns in this matchup, bananas clank with his things and then land, popgun just clanks and goes away.
How you ended it you can do more often while he is recovering.
match 5: PS vs link
This link wasnt as campy and you pressured him better
good bair and tech chases again, I really like them
be more aggressive when they are off stage
good use of nair and dair as combo starters and punishes this set.
match 6: Battle field vs m2
You CC'd a lot at the start which is really good, don't forget about being able to CC his dtilt at most percents.
I feel you played the neutral game more appropriatly in this set than the other one against M2, you had more room and thus did more running nairs and diddy stuff
Sometimes you should priotiize seeing a combo through to the end instead of regaining resources (being it bananas, stage control, etc). M2's final stock was almost combo video status but then instead of running after him at the ledge you went back for a half-done banana.
stocks>>everything else.
match7: MK on smashville
You were going pretty even with him in the neutral, you were puninshing each others mistakes/mis spaced moves and etc. The difference was he was pressuring your recovery every stock. If he wasn't off stage intecepting, he was right at the ledge pressuring. I beleive he got 3 out of your 4 stocks either intercepting your up-b or beating out your ledge-return option.
He also started to develop a counter item game and contested your stage control with it (he took your bananas instead of just respecting where they were, he also started teching trips)
You shield grabbed a lot at first but stopped doing it to much latter on
you missed most of the platform tech chases, try just nairing them on reaction to their get up option, at the very worst they shield it and you jump away/fast fall it
I liked your Dtilt to grab stuff, and your options coverage when you have pressure
Glide Toss on shield > max ranged jab catching an OoS option > fsmash was nice and caught him with bad DI (i think he was going to try to CC the gentleman?) and got an early kill
I Think you need to try to convert harder and go for more horizontal hits as opposed to juggles, Juggling M2 is really hard with his jump/floatyness/teleport
Coming down agaisnt M2 is really hard, I honestly don't have an idea what to do about that. Go for a larger stage and side-b around above him i guess
match 2: shiek on battle field
I liked your counterplay to him platform needle camping, multiple times you FH popgun and the threw the banana up between the platforms and caught him jumping, you got some decent percent confirming off of it later in the match. It kept him grounded more than shiek would want to be in the matchup i think.
You play a lot of Melee I think, because this was the only set where you actually pressured the ledge and took control of it, because you knew how to deal with shieks recovery. In other matchups if they are forced to recover low go ahead and just grab ledge. You did drop a few easy ledge guards that would have been a stock if you just held onto the ledge until you forced shiek to go on stage
you're conversions and tech chases were good in this one, you have good item play as well.
I would recomend CCing more against shiek, you didn't really do it at all until your last stock
Match 3: Lylat vs ZSS
Good Dtilt conversions again, and confimed stocks more in your combos. I think it was because you kept her grounded and got more DA> fairs than the other matches
be more confident on your punished of missed tether grabs, you hesistated. Just go for the side-b/grab/smash/fair/dair that you know you want to do. Also, react/be more decisive on your combos after side-b A.
I liked your bair usage in combos and tech strings a lot in this match.
Match 4: Campy link on FD
Okay first dont let em go to FD
you had a really strong start with stage control, you should aim to replecate that situation more throughout all your matches (two bananas infront of them while they are in shield/grounded near the ledge). you didn't maintain it or convert much off of it though.
You really need to challenge recoveries or stocks will keep going on forever like his first one did. against link you can bair/fair/uair him from below/infront and dair him from behind/above. Because of the angle he spins his sword at you want to hit the back of his head or his legs/crotch.
Grab ledge more and force them to at least put effort into their recovery, a lot of the time you would bair him off stage then run to the other side and just pull your bananas
You did good and punished most of his jump forward >protectiles with a glide toss
Try to set up your "counter camp" a bit closer to him. You did a good job weaving through the bullet hell though. Bananas > popguns in this matchup, bananas clank with his things and then land, popgun just clanks and goes away.
How you ended it you can do more often while he is recovering.
match 5: PS vs link
This link wasnt as campy and you pressured him better
good bair and tech chases again, I really like them
be more aggressive when they are off stage
good use of nair and dair as combo starters and punishes this set.
match 6: Battle field vs m2
You CC'd a lot at the start which is really good, don't forget about being able to CC his dtilt at most percents.
I feel you played the neutral game more appropriatly in this set than the other one against M2, you had more room and thus did more running nairs and diddy stuff
Sometimes you should priotiize seeing a combo through to the end instead of regaining resources (being it bananas, stage control, etc). M2's final stock was almost combo video status but then instead of running after him at the ledge you went back for a half-done banana.
stocks>>everything else.
match7: MK on smashville
You were going pretty even with him in the neutral, you were puninshing each others mistakes/mis spaced moves and etc. The difference was he was pressuring your recovery every stock. If he wasn't off stage intecepting, he was right at the ledge pressuring. I beleive he got 3 out of your 4 stocks either intercepting your up-b or beating out your ledge-return option.
He also started to develop a counter item game and contested your stage control with it (he took your bananas instead of just respecting where they were, he also started teching trips)
It looked really good, I just think you could convert harder on your hit confirms if you would just pressure them at the ledge more. Diddy does have a decent gimp game even if he can't go too far off stage. just grab the ledge more!
Also, as your opponents develop more counterplay to bananas some of your set-ups wont work as much.
The last match is a good example, the MK started taking the bananas for himself when you left them out/pulled them out towards him, and he teched the trips at the right times. For example your glide Toss > dsmash that you used to get a lot of your kills wont work reliably if they start to built the habit to tech roll away when you trip them.
All in all it was solid and you have really good fundamentals on stage. Your diddy looks a lot better than mine in most regards haha.
just try to at least grab the ledge more. By doing so you might not guarentee time to get bananas out if you mess up, but stocks >>> everything else
Thanks for all the feedback, really appreciate the time you put in and the depth you gave.@
KK so I'll just put stuff in a spoiler.
Generally it was good, your stage control was simple and effective and so was your tech chasing
you really really need to pressure peoples recovery more though. Even if its just shooting popgun and grabbing the ledge, you'd get ALOT more stocks than just letting people on for free (unless thats like a personal/honor code thing you do). It would help you convert some of your stage pressure and combo game (Which is already good) and turn them into stocks instead of just wracking up percent and returning to neutral.
match 1: vs M2 on Wario ware
You shield grabbed a lot at first but stopped doing it to much latter on
you missed most of the platform tech chases, try just nairing them on reaction to their get up option, at the very worst they shield it and you jump away/fast fall it
I liked your Dtilt to grab stuff, and your options coverage when you have pressure
Glide Toss on shield > max ranged jab catching an OoS option > fsmash was nice and caught him with bad DI (i think he was going to try to CC the gentleman?) and got an early kill
I Think you need to try to convert harder and go for more horizontal hits as opposed to juggles, Juggling M2 is really hard with his jump/floatyness/teleport
Coming down agaisnt M2 is really hard, I honestly don't have an idea what to do about that. Go for a larger stage and side-b around above him i guess
match 2: shiek on battle field
I liked your counterplay to him platform needle camping, multiple times you FH popgun and the threw the banana up between the platforms and caught him jumping, you got some decent percent confirming off of it later in the match. It kept him grounded more than shiek would want to be in the matchup i think.
You play a lot of Melee I think, because this was the only set where you actually pressured the ledge and took control of it, because you knew how to deal with shieks recovery. In other matchups if they are forced to recover low go ahead and just grab ledge. You did drop a few easy ledge guards that would have been a stock if you just held onto the ledge until you forced shiek to go on stage
you're conversions and tech chases were good in this one, you have good item play as well.
I would recomend CCing more against shiek, you didn't really do it at all until your last stock
Match 3: Lylat vs ZSS
Good Dtilt conversions again, and confimed stocks more in your combos. I think it was because you kept her grounded and got more DA> fairs than the other matches
be more confident on your punished of missed tether grabs, you hesistated. Just go for the side-b/grab/smash/fair/dair that you know you want to do. Also, react/be more decisive on your combos after side-b A.
I liked your bair usage in combos and tech strings a lot in this match.
Match 4: Campy link on FD
Okay first dont let em go to FD
you had a really strong start with stage control, you should aim to replecate that situation more throughout all your matches (two bananas infront of them while they are in shield/grounded near the ledge). you didn't maintain it or convert much off of it though.
You really need to challenge recoveries or stocks will keep going on forever like his first one did. against link you can bair/fair/uair him from below/infront and dair him from behind/above. Because of the angle he spins his sword at you want to hit the back of his head or his legs/crotch.
Grab ledge more and force them to at least put effort into their recovery, a lot of the time you would bair him off stage then run to the other side and just pull your bananas
You did good and punished most of his jump forward >protectiles with a glide toss
Try to set up your "counter camp" a bit closer to him. You did a good job weaving through the bullet hell though. Bananas > popguns in this matchup, bananas clank with his things and then land, popgun just clanks and goes away.
How you ended it you can do more often while he is recovering.
match 5: PS vs link
This link wasnt as campy and you pressured him better
good bair and tech chases again, I really like them
be more aggressive when they are off stage
good use of nair and dair as combo starters and punishes this set.
match 6: Battle field vs m2
You CC'd a lot at the start which is really good, don't forget about being able to CC his dtilt at most percents.
I feel you played the neutral game more appropriatly in this set than the other one against M2, you had more room and thus did more running nairs and diddy stuff
Sometimes you should priotiize seeing a combo through to the end instead of regaining resources (being it bananas, stage control, etc). M2's final stock was almost combo video status but then instead of running after him at the ledge you went back for a half-done banana.
stocks>>everything else.
match7: MK on smashville
You were going pretty even with him in the neutral, you were puninshing each others mistakes/mis spaced moves and etc. The difference was he was pressuring your recovery every stock. If he wasn't off stage intecepting, he was right at the ledge pressuring. I beleive he got 3 out of your 4 stocks either intercepting your up-b or beating out your ledge-return option.
He also started to develop a counter item game and contested your stage control with it (he took your bananas instead of just respecting where they were, he also started teching trips)
It looked really good, I just think you could convert harder on your hit confirms if you would just pressure them at the ledge more. Diddy does have a decent gimp game even if he can't go too far off stage. just grab the ledge more!
Also, as your opponents develop more counterplay to bananas some of your set-ups wont work as much.
The last match is a good example, the MK started taking the bananas for himself when you left them out/pulled them out towards him, and he teched the trips at the right times. For example your glide Toss > dsmash that you used to get a lot of your kills wont work reliably if they start to built the habit to tech roll away when you trip them.
All in all it was solid and you have really good fundamentals on stage. Your diddy looks a lot better than mine in most regards haha.
just try to at least grab the ledge more. By doing so you might not guarentee time to get bananas out if you mess up, but stocks >>> everything else
We basically were just doing randoms for our "non-sets" which explains the less than ideal stages.
You're right, definitely started with a lot of melee before P:M, and the little bit of Brawl I played consisted of Diddy so that helps a bit too.
I definitely need to work on keeping up the pressure sometimes, I just find that if I'm unsure on how to fight someone I play conservative and try to just win the neutral, which is sometimes exactly the opposite of what I should be doing.
I've just recently realized how amazing CC'ing is and have been trying to use it more.
Gonna work on grabbing the ledge a lot more too, I've been too spoiled with easy M2 and Yoshi ledge grabs that too often I just laze about on the stage instead of simply turning around and wavedashing -_- It's definitely not an honor thing though
I think I really need to just work on consistency. I've got those moments where I'm really in the zone and then meh, I tee myself up.
Thanks for all the analysis though, I might be getting more on stream in a couple days too so I'll definitely post it.
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Got anything for me, Soft?
Haha yeah, only watched the two vs Maboi though and the one peach/pit set.Got anything for me, Soft?
Again I'm not that great so take anything I say with a grain of salt/ prioritize other people's feedback over mine
I liked your banana game and your item control, I think you could capitalize on the tech chases just a bit more though by going for grabs/smashes on chase instead of another item toss
I think you DA out of neutral a bit to much, Maboi was baiting it out and CCing it or dash dancing around it and punishing.
Against his Roy:
Try to camp a bit more, its hard to deal with roy's neutral as its very similar to marths. you really have to pick a large stage, zone, and try to capitalize on each mistake he makes. What makes it nice is our punish game on roy is obscene, his combo weight, falling speed, and bad recovery is the perfect situation for us to take a stock in justone or two combos.
If he gets you off stage and starts to charge Neutral B, you HAVE to sweet spot or recover high. Depending on if he positions to hit over the ledge or not you have to go for a top platform or just go straight up to avoid it. You were doing it a bit in the middle of the set but started getting hit again later. Its hard to avoid.
I liked your shhf'd nairs and when you naired him out of his full-hop fairs. Try to punish his recovery more, you can shoot a lot of popguns to take jumps or force him to burn it early as he has to "cross the line" of peanuts eventually. I recomend pulling 2 bananas as he gets closer so they fall off stage, then just grabing the ledge right before you think he will up-b. If he does it early he gets hit by one and you bair, if he doesn't, you timed it right and ledgeguarded him/are in a good position to punish his landing.
Game 2 you did a good job baiting out his attacks in the neutral, there were like 3 instances where you DD'd close to him, baited out a ftilt or d-tilt, the just fair/naired his face
Vs Falco:
I can't give too much advice vs falco because 1: the AZ melee falco players rarely play PM and play fox when they do, and 2: i go GnW vs falco because its easier.
You really really need to capitalize everytime Falco gets put of stage. Run towards the ledge and try to predict/react to his options. If he side-bs early, any aerial, up-tilt, up-smash, ftilt, or fsmash can him him depending on his start position. If he goes for ledge you can dtilt him or the landing hitbox of bair. if he up-bs you can tilt/bair him or just popgun him as he is charging (with good prediction/reaction speed though)
Power sheilding lasers is really important, or at the very least knowing when to Glide Toss OoS against lasers to catch him out. This is what makes the neutral game rough, although he wasn't laser spamming/camping too much.
You did a lot of tech-chase upsmashes this set, and only one netted you anything. all the other ones you either got wake-up attacked though, it got shield grabbed, or you made a wrong guess and got shine comboed for it. grabs are safer imo, be careful of wakeup shines.
You need to sweetspot the ledge vs falco, otherwise you WILL eat the boot. You can also SDI into walltech if you think you can do it consistantly, and doing the motion doesn't hurt much when recovering to begin with.
vs Peach/Pit
I can't help with Pit as i've only played one set against a pit, and I go GnW vs him now.
vs peach, You did a good job camping and zoning which is key in the MU imo. Popgun to force her to full-hop float, then full-hop popgun to hit her there as well. it works really well for me whenever I play the MU. Its also really important to avoid trades, peach's nair will beatout or trade favorably against all of our aerials. Try to bait the nairs out then go for her, a lot of peaches are really accustomed to nairing immediately out of hitstun as soon as someone approaches her.
You did a good job keeping her low, both on stage and in her recovery, and did a great job controlling the off stage game (better against peach I think than you did against falco/roy).
Try to camp a bit more, its hard to deal with roy's neutral as its very similar to marths. you really have to pick a large stage, zone, and try to capitalize on each mistake he makes. What makes it nice is our punish game on roy is obscene, his combo weight, falling speed, and bad recovery is the perfect situation for us to take a stock in justone or two combos.
If he gets you off stage and starts to charge Neutral B, you HAVE to sweet spot or recover high. Depending on if he positions to hit over the ledge or not you have to go for a top platform or just go straight up to avoid it. You were doing it a bit in the middle of the set but started getting hit again later. Its hard to avoid.
I liked your shhf'd nairs and when you naired him out of his full-hop fairs. Try to punish his recovery more, you can shoot a lot of popguns to take jumps or force him to burn it early as he has to "cross the line" of peanuts eventually. I recomend pulling 2 bananas as he gets closer so they fall off stage, then just grabing the ledge right before you think he will up-b. If he does it early he gets hit by one and you bair, if he doesn't, you timed it right and ledgeguarded him/are in a good position to punish his landing.
Game 2 you did a good job baiting out his attacks in the neutral, there were like 3 instances where you DD'd close to him, baited out a ftilt or d-tilt, the just fair/naired his face
Vs Falco:
I can't give too much advice vs falco because 1: the AZ melee falco players rarely play PM and play fox when they do, and 2: i go GnW vs falco because its easier.
You really really need to capitalize everytime Falco gets put of stage. Run towards the ledge and try to predict/react to his options. If he side-bs early, any aerial, up-tilt, up-smash, ftilt, or fsmash can him him depending on his start position. If he goes for ledge you can dtilt him or the landing hitbox of bair. if he up-bs you can tilt/bair him or just popgun him as he is charging (with good prediction/reaction speed though)
Power sheilding lasers is really important, or at the very least knowing when to Glide Toss OoS against lasers to catch him out. This is what makes the neutral game rough, although he wasn't laser spamming/camping too much.
You did a lot of tech-chase upsmashes this set, and only one netted you anything. all the other ones you either got wake-up attacked though, it got shield grabbed, or you made a wrong guess and got shine comboed for it. grabs are safer imo, be careful of wakeup shines.
You need to sweetspot the ledge vs falco, otherwise you WILL eat the boot. You can also SDI into walltech if you think you can do it consistantly, and doing the motion doesn't hurt much when recovering to begin with.
vs Peach/Pit
I can't help with Pit as i've only played one set against a pit, and I go GnW vs him now.
vs peach, You did a good job camping and zoning which is key in the MU imo. Popgun to force her to full-hop float, then full-hop popgun to hit her there as well. it works really well for me whenever I play the MU. Its also really important to avoid trades, peach's nair will beatout or trade favorably against all of our aerials. Try to bait the nairs out then go for her, a lot of peaches are really accustomed to nairing immediately out of hitstun as soon as someone approaches her.
You did a good job keeping her low, both on stage and in her recovery, and did a great job controlling the off stage game (better against peach I think than you did against falco/roy).
I think you could work on edge guarding a bit better, you did a good job of it against the peach but not too much of it vs Falco or Roy. Also, try to mix up your own recovery more, you were going right towards them quite often and got punished for it once they caught on.
All solid stuff, thank you! You're right on pretty much all of it. I find juggling Peach very natural because she's floaty (like Brawl) so I can't truly combo her anyway, so I just juggle and pressure her, and it works just like Brawl. I just need to learn some aspects of spacing her better I think, I get hit by a lot of hairs.
I definitely am not punishing most characters hard enough, and that's where I'm struggling. Edgeguarding most notably. I'm not exactly letting them back to the stage, but I'm flubbing my edge guarding execution.
What are your go to edge guards for Fox/Falco's up-B? I can deal with Phantasm, but I seem to keep slipping up on the up-B, particularly when it's sweetspotting.
If they are above the stage/above and off stage, and they charge up, If you can't reach them with a bair while they are charging you have to guess between them recoverying high and going for the ledge. You can cover the ledge option and high option for falco at the same time by just reacting as his up-b doesn't go anywhere, Fox you have to guess.
If they are below the ledge, if they aren't going to sweet spot you can tilt them or smash them. If they are wall hugging you have to dair them or nair them and go for a stage spike. If they are sweetspoting often you can just grab the ledge and either hog or bair them as they come towards you
If they are below the ledge, if they aren't going to sweet spot you can tilt them or smash them. If they are wall hugging you have to dair them or nair them and go for a stage spike. If they are sweetspoting often you can just grab the ledge and either hog or bair them as they come towards you