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Swanky's Sideshow: Diddy Kong Video Arkive and Kritique Thread

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
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May 19, 2014
Messages
433
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Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Going to another hot seat, this time a Kirby main is in the chair. (Insert image of chudat playing with a life lead while wake me up when its all over plays in the background) should be on the eaglesmash twitch page tomorrow starting at 4. Will post the times of my matches, and loved the last set of feedback. Ranged from what? Admit you switched players. Why would you do that? and my favorite (that Zelda left her glass slipper shoved straight up your a... even though you won you lost.)

Last week before the big salt tournament in Georgia with some of the greats from Alabama and Georgia. Believe Fatality is having a Georgia crew vs Reflex's Alabama crew. Number at 43 and rising quickly, will be lots of pm doubles and singles. Will post link when date arrives, wish us luck, then wish me more luck than you gave everyone else.
 

DeFish

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
105
Location
NJ
I was able to watch the first few games of your GF set, that game 3 finish was hilarious. It seemed like you needed to adjust to the MU a bit in the first two games, but you looked like you had a pretty good handle on things after that. I find this to be a weird MU myself, was there anything in particular that you found to be strong vs Yoshi?
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Spokane, WA
I was able to watch the first few games of your GF set, that game 3 finish was hilarious. It seemed like you needed to adjust to the MU a bit in the first two games, but you looked like you had a pretty good handle on things after that. I find this to be a weird MU myself, was there anything in particular that you found to be strong vs Yoshi?
This day was my first time fighting Yoshi- for some reason the bracket has always conspired to keep myself and The Foot from playing. We played in Winners and I lost (doing progressively better each game), and then you see in these sets that I barely win the first set of GF and then win decisively in the last set. I almost four stocked him the second to last game, on GHZ. I was basically inventing counterplay during the games.

It's a weird MU, but I figured out a lot. We played a grant total of 14 games in tournament (I lost 2-3, then won 3-2, then won 3-1).

First, you want to ban WarioWare (as always) and either Final Destination or Lylat. FD is really bad for Diddy in this MU, because Yoshi can basically zero death you off a hit. It's ugly, but uairs are basically guaranteed off of Yoshi's utilt and dthrow, and he can do several chain hits off of those moves. With platforms, you can DI on to the platforms and tech (and he can chase the tech), but on FD you're pretty much screwed and have to hope he messes up.

Diddy's fall speed is basically the perfect combo weight for Yoshi, unfortunately. Yoshi punishes way harder in this matchup. If he gets a grab he can often get a 0-80% combo with a read option to continue possibly to death.

Yoshi's grounded egg roll is particularly horrifying in this matchup, because he can cancel it on hit to your shield and have frame advantage. You reflexively will want to grab the first time you see Yoshi's egg hit your shield- don't. Since Yoshi has frame advantage, he can utilt or jab you before your grab hits. But if you hold your shield, he can grab you. This basically leads to a guessing game...if Yoshi is going to grab, spotdodge, if he's going to utilt, hold your shield. But it's a guessing game that's massively in his favor, because both his utilt and his grab combo in to everything.

Also, he can edgeguard Diddy quite nastily. Dtilt can generally kill you out of your barrels, and he can throw an egg toss in your recovery arc to force you to charge your barrels longer (meaning, now you can't sweetspot). If you recover high, nair covers all your options, and sometimes fsmash works too.


Yoshi's second jump is armored and will basically beat anything Diddy can do to it with attacks. You know how much we love to surprise fair people, but Yoshi can just eat the fair hit and nair you back. Diddy doesn't have any multi-hit aerials so he can't do much about the second jump armor. This also gets Yoshi out of combos- he can just nair out of everything (think Luigi) or second jump DJC nair for armor.


So, he punishes way harder, he edgeguards Diddy well, and Diddy doesn't combo him well.

All of this sounds like a horrible matchup for Diddy, but there's one big saving grace- I developed some amazing edgeguards on Yoshi during this set.

Footstools go through his double jump armor and Yoshi has no rising up-B, so footstools are an effective kill. See:

http://gfycat.com/WellgroomedElectricBeagle

After you've killed him with a footstool once, Yoshi will be way more cautious about blindly jumping back on stage. He'll probably jump back with an aerial next time (he can do that now, Yoshi can choose whether or not to DJC when he attacks), but his aerials all commit him, so if you see it coming you can pull back and fair or dair him for it.

So then, he'll start pulling back when you jump out after him when he uses his second jump. The instant he pulls back, start charging your up-B. He now has no second jump, and his armor will run out before he crosses your path. His only options back on stage are egg roll, and airdodge.

Egg roll does not have an aerial hitbox, so if he tries to egg roll (side B) back toward the stage, release the barrels and watch him die. If he airdodges, charge for a moment longer and then release. If you can actually time it so that his airdodge ends inside your barrels so that the BACK of you hits him, it'll send him back offstage (to death).


That looks like this:

http://gfycat.com/DangerousSorrowfulFlies



Also, I find that Dthrows tend to work fairly well on Yoshi, on a side note. Uthrow at very low percents and dthrow after it. You'll get a free hit or a techchase generally, or put him offstage, depending on his DI. Mix up dthrow and bthrow to mess up his DI (if he DI's dthrow up, you get a fair, if he DI's bthrow away, he can die).

Bananas are really, really effective on Yoshi, and peanuts will block his egg roll approach. If you see an egg roll coming at you, don't shield the egg, just hit it with an attack (even jab or peanut will clank with it) and use your fastest move after the clank (he will probably jab) or retreat. If he's too close, you can safely jump and chase the egg roll with an aerial.

Be cautious chasing Yoshi, because his pivot grab is a REALLY effective way of punishing chasers. I generally will just pull a banana if Yoshi tries to pull away.

Diddy's defensive game is more solid. Diddy takes the neutral game when he has a banana in hand, because you can instantly punish Yoshi if he starts to throw an egg (egg throw is pretty slow startup) and it clanks with all his approaches. So this game is very banana heavy, and Yoshi doesn't do a great job of getting to and taking control of your bananas due to the way his second jump works.


So yeah, I'm not sure who this MU favors. It's either even or Yoshi's favor. It's pretty dangerous for Diddy, you have to be very safe.
 
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DeFish

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 10, 2013
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That's so much more information than I was expecting, thanks a ton for typing all that up. I've always struggled with edgeguarding Yoshi, but the footstool makes a lot of sense as a primary tool for it. Doesn't Yoshi lose his double jump armor if he uses an aerial, too?
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Spokane, WA
That's so much more information than I was expecting, thanks a ton for typing all that up. I've always struggled with edgeguarding Yoshi, but the footstool makes a lot of sense as a primary tool for it. Doesn't Yoshi lose his double jump armor if he uses an aerial, too?
I think he loses it if he DJCs, but not if he does a rising aerial Brawl-style. Don't quote me on that though.
 

SSGuy

Smash Champion
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Dallas, TX/FGCU
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4871-4520-9643
I need some advice on combos and utilizing Diddy's full potential. For some reason, I don't think I am just doing all the basics with him and nothing more.

 

Searing_Sorrow

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To praxis, diddy can combo the mess out of yoshi, his weight leads to chain grabs early, at mid down throw to up smash, and the many various dair followup combos diddy has on yoshi, along with platform cancel nairs. Though diddy will eat close to 50% from djc uair after a down throw at early percent.
To supershyguy, just watched the full video.
1. Punish game - I noticed the overall punish game was lower than the norm. At early percent, diddy's up throw leads to anything fro side b to up air, or nair, forward throw not the best option. Diddy's two best throws are down throw and up throw.
2. Dash attacking without any baits or dash dancing is extremely risky, and should not be done without a followup plan, like having a banana right behind the opponent, or having conditioned your opponent with side b grabs.
3. The lack of bananas on FD were very noticeable. Your opponent looked like they didn't know how to use them, so you could have blown him up greatly by limiting his options with bananas on the ground, and pestering peanuts to force him to approach recklessly.
4. Better less condescending announcers that actually know your name.
 

SSGuy

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To supershyguy, just watched the full video.
1. Punish game - I noticed the overall punish game was lower than the norm. At early percent, diddy's up throw leads to anything fro side b to up air, or nair, forward throw not the best option. Diddy's two best throws are down throw and up throw.
2. Dash attacking without any baits or dash dancing is extremely risky, and should not be done without a followup plan, like having a banana right behind the opponent, or having conditioned your opponent with side b grabs.
3. The lack of bananas on FD were very noticeable. Your opponent looked like they didn't know how to use them, so you could have blown him up greatly by limiting his options with bananas on the ground, and pestering peanuts to force him to approach recklessly.
4. Better less condescending announcers that actually know your name.

I be fair, I am brand new to the area and that was my first Smash Bros related appearance. I guess my job is to become well known.

I understand what you mean though. I don't have much time to practice but I will keep everything you said in mind. I can see how U-air can start some long annoying combos. Every side B off stage was a fat fingered banana grab. I don't play against Marth well at all but I will have to properly learn that MU at some point.
 

Praxis

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To praxis, diddy can combo the mess out of yoshi, his weight leads to chain grabs early, at mid down throw to up smash, and the many various dair followup combos diddy has on yoshi, along with platform cancel nairs. Though diddy will eat close to 50% from djc uair after a down throw at early percent.
To supershyguy, just watched the full video.
1. Punish game - I noticed the overall punish game was lower than the norm. At early percent, diddy's up throw leads to anything fro side b to up air, or nair, forward throw not the best option. Diddy's two best throws are down throw and up throw.
2. Dash attacking without any baits or dash dancing is extremely risky, and should not be done without a followup plan, like having a banana right behind the opponent, or having conditioned your opponent with side b grabs.
3. The lack of bananas on FD were very noticeable. Your opponent looked like they didn't know how to use them, so you could have blown him up greatly by limiting his options with bananas on the ground, and pestering peanuts to force him to approach recklessly.
4. Better less condescending announcers that actually know your name.
I really want to see you document these chain grabs you're always talking about better.
 

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
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The curse of Georgia diddy players. The north has great item control and speed, the south has advanced combo games unique movement, and bad recovery. Both have crappy recording equipment.

Salt tourney was last Saturday, so a few recorded matches should be up around Friday though only played a pikachu samus, and Zelda on stream. Only pikachu is chain grab weight, and that was the same Zelda that saw my footstool chains so I would be dumb to do them on my training partner. P.S I would like if you didn't tell all my opponents how to play against diddy, not fun playing against Zelda up b wave lands. Just glad I recovered from the surprise factor in time.
As for the chain combos themselves, they are not that hard to do, Player~1 picked it up mid match. Will post it as soon as fatality has it up praxis, also congratulations on your win against the foot, your movement is far more refined than the first videos, and your overall speed increased throughout
 
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Bellioes

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Jan 5, 2009
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Montreal, QC
http://youtu.be/D_scqLT5cvA

So here is a MUCH better quality tournament set from our Montreal weeklies. It was winners-semis against our #1 player , Bidoof. who takes first pretty much every week. I had no idea how to DI G&W combos and I lost a pretty convincing 2-0 (even with him SDing ..) But then he agreed to go FD in a game 3 friendly and I did a lot better.

I need some tips for the MU as well as any other criticisms you may have. I do think i have improved a lot since Ive started going to the weeklies. I actually took 5th place out of 32 entrants this time, it was great!

Heres the bracket for anyone thats interested.
http://challonge.com/pmmtl15
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Joined
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Messages
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Alma/Statesboro Georgia
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D_lfM_q2tdk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bpbB7eSHQ&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjq5o00hmpDgRIw-LyykzmVX

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDx8Tqf_R40
Any critiques would be greatly appreciated. Also sad I failed at winning by time out in a match, but remembered it was recorded game 2 vs pikachu.

Learned a lot from the experience. Also, vs pikachu chain throwed and did a few extensions just to make sure praxis could see what I was talking about lol. It was fun, worth the 5h trip and the 19h shift, plus reflex knocked my training partner down a peg or two. But please can someone tell me what happened vs Samus on battlefield last stock?
Important note , unless you want to be bored to tears, skip round 1 vs pikachu and go straight to match two.

Forgot to add a midtourney friendly lol. It was so much fun, though we need a larger venue next time.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSOGs-umMnA
 
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Searing_Sorrow

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To Praxis a Praxis extended critique of Praxis's matches Grand Finals only.

Game 1 Smashville

Good use of two hit strings at the beginning. Popgun could assist with spacing and avoiding the Yoshi side b grounded. It is not really worth the risk of challenging when he is grounded without a banana already in hand. Try to keep more bananas in play during the match, you didn’t really do anything blatantly wrong, just a good match from both players.

Important note: At about 40% it is not really beneficial to do up throw over down throw vs Yoshi.

Game 2 Green Hill Zone

Down throw at 0%threw away guaranteed damage from up throw and a good way to set the tone early in the match vs Yoshi. At the ledge yoshi’s down tilt sends at a really bad angle for recovery, making it very dangerous and something to look out for (similar g&w down tilt) Noticed you did down throw frequently at early percent. To reuse good advice you gave me before, raw dash attack is not good in this matchup, and I see what you meant. You started to take over the match and your combo game got stronger towards the end, but had a very bad start.

Game 3 Salty Runback

Great early use of banana for limiting yoshi’s options. Sorry spent more time spectating, good stuff, and even raw command grabs lol they work. Diddy’s Up b says no to yoshi’s armor at higher percents, and your early lead helped coast through the rest of the match.

Game 4 Yoshi’s Story

Great stage to learn the chain grabs and followups, Diddy does great on this stage and combos for days with platform followup extensions. Nice blow up and like seeing more use of the popgun when the banana is on the field. Again down throw dash attack doesn’t really work on yoshi’s armor jump. This was the best match I have seen so far as far as your hard reads having success and you suffocating him with good spacing.

Game 5 Final Destination

Got caught too early, and this led to big damage against you from Yoshi. The early gimp helped tremendously, but the Yoshi player maintained strong stage control for a very long time. Would probably suggest slowing down the match with peanuts and bananas to build time to formulate a plan of action in these situations. Only other actual issue was the very dangerous non-angled up b edgeguard that could have been very bad, but nice clutch out.

Game 6 Smashville

Good to see you punishing his poor uses of side b more (no air hitbox and raw is very predictable). What happened on that grab sequence you just left his tongue (I am usually on the receiving end of random messed up moments). Your grounded mobility is sound, but diddy has a few more air movement options that would be good to utilize in the form of Popgun floats and retreat side b shenanigans into agt’s. Your announcers are weird.

Game 7 Ban this stage Fountain of Dreams

Fast fall error? Good combo though. You had a lot of time to confirm and jump off yoshi’s head off the command grab. May want to consider raw grabbing the opponent near the ledge when they start reading cartwheel to bair and stay in shield. Yoshi will armor through aerial followups at early percent after up throw, which is why aerial side b is a better followup into an aerial.

Game 8 Green Hill Zone

Nice gimps. Am being told now that dair to reverse fair is a better followup for diddy at the location Yoshi landed at early percent but have not used it much myself. Strong start. And footstools are awesome lol, you made him so flustered he went to spamming side b

Game 9 Final Destination

No more down throw cartwheel on Yoshi at early percent, against good ones that is very dangerous and will get you comboed. Hard read follow up smash may be better for the combo approach you are going for since he does not d.i often on down throw. Much better d.i on yoshi’s throws, you are limiting his followups. Better use of bananas to clank him out of side b and using the length of fd against him to punish the now very predictable Yoshi side b. Solid j.v 2 stock punishing his lack of d.i.

Apologize for the delayed response, but it was 9 matches, and was on a 9.5h shift all week except for my own tourney day.
 
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Bellioes

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Montreal, QC
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D_lfM_q2tdk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bpbB7eSHQ&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjq5o00hmpDgRIw-LyykzmVX

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDx8Tqf_R40
Any critiques would be greatly appreciated. Also sad I failed at winning by time out in a match, but remembered it was recorded game 2 vs pikachu.

Learned a lot from the experience. Also, vs pikachu chain grabbed and did a few extensions just to make sure praxis could see what I was talking about lol. It was fun, worth the 5h trip and the 19h shift, plus reflex knocked my training partner down a peg or two. But please can someone tell me what happened vs Samus on battlefield last stock?
Important note , unless you want to be bored to tears, skip round 1 vs pikachu and go straight to match two.

Forgot to add a midtourney friendly lol. It was so much fun, though we need a larger venue next time.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSOGs-umMnA
You have a much more polished Diddy than me but Ill still put in my two cents. Take it with a grain of salt since I still dont know whats working out for me or not yet.

First of all, I really like your aerial movement with AGT's and his sideB. You also you threw in those Breversed peanut cancels to add even more aerial movement options. It was all very creative but at the same time effective. You rely a lot less on bananas in this way in your playstyle but its working really well for you. In my opinion, you actually may be using peanuts just as much as your bananas if not more. Or maybe its more of a stage control thing but, especially against the Zelda, you were a lot of the time throwing your banans down instead of directly at the opponent and using a lot more peanuts.

I couldnt really recognize any bad habits but its not really my strong suit. I guess sometimes you pulled a banana or even two too close to the oppnent for my tastes but they didnt seem to punish for it. I guess the falling banana did offer some protection but it could be dangerous nevertheless? Especially near the ledge. It doesnt seem too hard to me to get in under the banana and punish so I would maybe watch out for that.

Finally, I watched that pikachu set twice and didnt see a single traditional chaingrab. However, there were a lot of Uthrows>SideB grab combos. Is this what you are reffering to when you talk about chaingrabbing? You were getting some good extensions off of this combo that lead to 50-70% being dealt off of one low-percent grab. Very good stuff!

Thats all I have for now. Ill give it another look tomorrow to see if something else pops up. Good stuff though, there wasn't much stuff I could criticize to be honest. I probably learned more from you than you did from me Lol. :)
 
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Searing_Sorrow

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You have a much more polished Diddy than me but Ill still put in my two cents. Take it with a grain of salt since I still dont know whats working out for me or not yet.

First of all, I really like your aerial movement with AGT's and his sideB. You also you threw in those Breversed peanut cancels to add even more aerial movement options. It was all very creative but at the same time effective. You rely a lot less on bananas in this way in your playstyle but its working really well for you. In my opinion, you actually may be using peanuts just as much as your bananas if not more. Or maybe its more of a stage control thing but, especially against the Zelda, you were a lot of the time throwing your banans down instead of directly at the opponent and using a lot more peanuts.

I couldnt really recognize any bad habits but its not really my strong suit. I guess sometimes you pulled a banana or even two too close to the oppnent for my tastes but they didnt seem to punish for it. I guess the falling banana did offer some protection but it could be dangerous nevertheless? Especially near the ledge. It doesnt seem too hard to me to get in under the banana and punish so I would maybe watch out for that.

Finally, I watched that pikachu set twice and didnt see a single traditional chaingrab. However, there were a lot of Uthrows>SideB grab combos. Is this what you are reffering to when you talk about chaingrabbing? You were getting some good extensions off of this combo that lead to 50-70% being dealt off of one low-percent grab. Very good stuff!

Thats all I have for now. Ill give it another look tomorrow to see if something else pops up. Good stuff though, there wasn't much stuff I could criticize to be honest. I probably learned more from you than you did from me Lol. :)
Thanks for the advice. And I found out later I only have true chain grabs (with platforms) on heavies with up throw side b up tilt up throw side b. Since then, I went through a lot of polish down and tried to work on bad habits. I still am too aggressive near the ledge, but yea peanut is a better projectile for me in every matchup. It allows for better air movement and conditions the opponent to block more. I seriously need better banana game, but focus more on having a stronger punish game than opponent. And yea with all the followups available after (chain throw) up throw to side b, you can get easily to 50-100% on some stages before having to make a read. I just don't have good combos for floaties that know about footstool yet so have to settle for better neutral game and spacing. Need help against floaties greatly and hoping watching banana play from player ~1 will give me ideas and an even more suffocating item presence . I like trying to blend the best of every diddy main, and still looking for more creative ideas. Working on platform dash attack into footstools now, limited success and hurts hand too much.
If you notice more holes in my play let me know, and if it was not Zelda, I would not have pulled bananas so close to her. She has slow aerial and ground movement speed, so matchup is about baiting naryu out and punishing. And punishing her for not using naryu too. Din's fire gets 0 respect in the matchup
 
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Bellioes

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Thanks for the advice. And I found out later I only have true chain grabs (with platforms) on heavies with up throw side b up tilt up throw side b. Since then, I went through a lot of polish down and tried to work on bad habits. I still am too aggressive near the ledge, but yea peanut is a better projectile for me in every matchup. It allows for better air movement and conditions the opponent to block more. I seriously need better banana game, but focus more on having a stronger punish game than opponent. And yea with all the followups available after up throw to side b, you can get easily to 50-100% on some stages before having to make a read. I just don't have good combos for floaties that know about footstool yet so have to settle for better neutral game and spacing. Need help against floaties greatly and hoping watching banana play from player ~1 will give me an even more suffocating item presence . I like trying to blend the best of every diddy main, and still looking for more creative ideas, working on platform dash attack into footstools now, limited success and hurts hand too much.
If you notice more holes in my play let me know, and if it was not Zelda, I would not have pulled bananas so close to her. She has slow aerial and ground movement speed, so matchup is about baiting naryu out and punishing. And punishing her for not using naryu too.
Yeah, I did main Diddy in Brawl where he is pretty heavily reliant on bananas so that probably carried over to my PM Diddy. If you look at the video I posted Friday, youll see what I mean, especially game 3. I remember Player-1 was a prominent Brawl Diddy as well so it might be the same for him. So far, my opponents dont seem to be able to handle them too well but I know I need to work on almost every other aspect of my game (especially edgeguarding and neutral and to a lesser extent, punish game).
Also, I did see you do a good job of punishing the Zelda's use of NeutralB so props for that. Edgeguarding with UpB to cover teleport/Pikachu's QA both to the edge or onstage by shooting towards the stage was pretty neat too. Im gonna steal that lol
I would be interested in knowing about these footstool combos you have on floaties. Ive never used a footstool to combo and it seems to me like a great tool against those that know about from the way you talk about it. Can you specify a little more?

EDIT: I just looked at the match vs Samus and its only game2. Game1 on BF must not have been recorded. Anyways, it seemed like the matchup is a tough one for Diddy. She has a range advantage on Diddy and while you were struggling to get her within Uthrow kill percent range (all 3 of your kills were with Uthrow), she was able to easily bring it back with her edgeguarding that allowed for kills at moderately lower percents. You were pretty much in the lead most of the match until she got you offstage and you lost a stock except the time where your misfire hit. That last stock especially..
Also, with grab follow-ups from dthrow seeming to be impossible at around 90%+, I think bananas are much more important in the MU. Setting up for smash attacks where grabs are not nearly as effective for setting up kills as in other MU will allow for kills much earlier than Uthrow kill percents. Its also another projectile to block missles with though the samus didnt seem to spam them much. The counterpick was a good choice because of platform layout preventing her from abusing missles.
I saw a few oppurtunities for dash attacks off stage like when the Samus UpB'ed onto the stage but you opted to shoot peanuts instead. It could have lead to some lower percent kills if the Samus was unable to completely DI behind you and you got a free uair, fair or dair (not sure if Samus can UpB outve combo though). Im betting uair is at least a guaranteed follow up
 
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Searing_Sorrow

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Messages
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Against samus I forgot all of the lab tech i worked on for edgeguarding. If i would have done the quad shot I have been practicing against bomb jumping, it would have put her at the perfect angle for dash attack edgeguarding the tether. And thanks for letting me know about the matches, will look into that. Playing samus can be rough, and having a better banana game would definitely help. On battle field I died at 18% cause only the first hit of her screw attack traded when I hit with the up b when she was near ledge. Apparently first hit is a very powerful spike.
As for the matchup itself, it felt surprisingly even, had to rely on wavedash out of shield and bait and punish alot. I went for strategy in choosing skyloft, but after looking carefully I realized I could have crawled through the missles cause they were not being placed at the lowest point. Should have stuck with my comfort stages Yoshi Island and battlefield.
The matchup is very annoying though, and you have to win neutral so much without placing yourself in a bad edgeguard situation, could see it slightly in her favor due to diddy lacking major combos on her and the lack of vertical kill options, but hopefully i can utilize the setups better next time.
 

Searing_Sorrow

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Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
For the footstool combos on floaties, it is probably important that I mention a lot of my combos are premeditated in case of x situations. On Zelda, she is the perfect weight and fall speed to footstool right after connecting with a side b command grab if she d.I toward you or does nothing. This creates a psuedo-d.I trap between a fair followup or footstool dair depending on which direction they go, and with proper banana placement, you can create some near unavoidable situations. These are usually best on small stages where teching footstool gives no benefit cause they still get hit by the dair because dair is connecting right before the ground impact point.
Favorite stage for footstool combos is probably yoshi story just because the reward is so ridiculous right after a chain throw. It is part of why I allow bowser to have yoshi story over green hill zone even though most diddy mains like that stage more. Wish I had videos showcasing footstool combos for you, but maybe one of the diddy players with better equipment can copy the throw followups. Hardest part is memorizing weight fall speed percent and knowing when to b reverse the side b based on how you got the up throw. Hopefully more critiques come, its the best way of generating new ideas, I hate letting my play become stagnant.
 

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Lol this forum is almost as dead as the Zelda forum. Guess it will be like that till the new update like last time. Guess I will just quietly hit the training room. Floaty chain throws might actually be a thing from what I heard.
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
Yeah, for real :/
Last two videos I've posted didnt get any replies...
I really hope things will pick up later on. Good constructive feedback is almost impossible to find outside of smashboards. Lol
 

Gamer_Mason

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
93
Location
Vancouver, WA
I'd like help. I've mostly been playing diddy off of my brawl experience and watching Junebug. But hearing what I could change from others would be nice. I'm just playing in a weekly a lot right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Xdd8K6O64&list=UULf0334lSwDb4Z82iguaTcw today. maybe my last counterpick was a bad choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWYcjonZdDc&feature=youtu.be three weeks ago. See the comments for when I play.

real lazy post, it's 2:21am and I want to drive home. Thanks.
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,096
Location
Montreal, QC
I'd like help. I've mostly been playing diddy off of my brawl experience and watching Junebug. But hearing what I could change from others would be nice. I'm just playing in a weekly a lot right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Xdd8K6O64&list=UULf0334lSwDb4Z82iguaTcw today. maybe my last counterpick was a bad choice.
So I just watched the first 3 games of WF set and heres what I got.

1. Your edgeguarding game could use some work. The majority of the time, you went for Fair or dash attack. You dropped quite a few edgeguards and even killed yourself a couple times. Against such a telegraphed recovery such as Fox's, there are safer options than going offstage, especially when hes recovering from below. Fsmash and Dsmash are great on stages like Sky World and Smashville where its harder for fox to sweetspot with no wall to grind against. Also, learn to recognize when a simple edgehog is all it takes. There were quite a few times where the Fox was far enough away that a well timed ledge roll was all it took.
EDIT: Actually, yournedgeguarding was considerably better in the last two games so good job.

2. Use Dair to extend your combos. Your Usmash strings often ended with nothing or another aerial like Uair or bair. Dair lets you continue the combo making it a tech chase if they tech and if not a falling nair to pop them back up and combo even more. A lot of Diddys do it and it will better your punish game.

3. When recovering, you have a habit of sideB'ing directly onstage. It was pretty telegraphed and has a decent amount of landing lag. Try mixing things up a bit. Fall a bit more and then UpB to ledge, airdodge on stage instead of sideB etc. You were eating a lot of Usmashs because of this habit.

4. Finally, your dash dancing always ended in dash attack towards opponent. Try to mix it up with grabs or dtilt for example because DA is a pretty punishable approach and should be used with more caution.

Hope this helps :)
 
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DeFish

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
105
Location
NJ
Another note about side-b on stage, you can waveland out of it when the animation ends. If you're above the stage and can't get to the ledge, you can try a shortened side-b into a waveland as a mix up. Ice had people try to punish the full length side-b in this scenario and open themselves up for punishment.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
Yo guys,

Would like a few you you guys to give me a critique and tell me if I'm doing anything obviously wrong.

Here are 2 of my most recent sets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pd_K6rdCec&list=PL2odLL1MNaklaFWDDBN4wo3RtcA6kbltt&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8JA_BI3nW8&index=2&list=PL2odLL1MNaklaFWDDBN4wo3RtcA6kbltt

- Cong
Just watched the first match so far, but from what I can see, nothing overtly wrong. There was a few technical blunders, but not more than I usually make in a match.

I think the biggest issue I see is that you always instantly react to banana trips as if the opponent will not tech them. A lot of Brawl Diddy stuff like instantly attacking or grabbing after a banana trip. You only got away with this because your opponent didn't tech a single banana. This may be a habit that bites you later on when your opponent gets wise.

Honestly, I like to go out of my way to teach all my local opponents to tech to banana trips. I figure this will (A) Help me develop good habits for when I fight a Diddy slayer someday, and (B) Help everyone in my region turn in to Diddy slayers and make me look good when they go out of state ;)

The second thing I notice is that you very rarely tech roll- you almost always tech in place. You might want to mix this up more.


Also- I recommend using more peanuts!
 
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Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
So we do these monthly crew tournaments to train newer players, they tend to be lower level except for me and three others in the group who are competitive level. There's this player, Light, who usually beats me when we face even though I usually outplace him at actual tournaments. I beat his main (Roy) in winners finals, and faced his pocket Fox in grand fianls.

Here is the grand finals set against his Fox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVA3kpCBro

I'm pretty satisfied with the direction my Diddy's been improving in, but I feel very unpolished. My punish game doesn't go as far as I'd like it to. Can anyone give me critique?
 

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Been off the forum for a while, and been trying to do a similar thing helping to create a scene in the area. Right now I am having the exact opposite problem. As it is now my punish game is relatively high, but the more I teach everyone about how to deal with bananas, the less I am able to setup the hi punish game. Will post matches after they transfer to YouTube from twitch, but overall I do notice a drastic difference in my play style, but still have a relatively weak neutral game when projectiles no longer work. So much work to create a scene, and the 32 man round robin was so taxing. By match 10 the toll showed.

Here are some old team videos mostly for fun. "First time improve team up" We got decisively beaten by the actual teammates at the small scale tourney but it did add some comical fun. Best line "This guy is a sadist" when I was up b spamming for lols.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnHk89Oqsg
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILOjbOnA3c
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=waEFSC3nwnY
For punish game I would have to give time slots of my matches on a twitch channel, and twitch non live stream kind of stinks for watching purposes. Will say my combos vs dk and yoshi are pretty silly in damage.
 
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Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
So we do these monthly crew tournaments to train newer players, they tend to be lower level except for me and three others in the group who are competitive level. There's this player, Light, who usually beats me when we face even though I usually outplace him at actual tournaments. I beat his main (Roy) in winners finals, and faced his pocket Fox in grand fianls.

Here is the grand finals set against his Fox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVA3kpCBro

I'm pretty satisfied with the direction my Diddy's been improving in, but I feel very unpolished. My punish game doesn't go as far as I'd like it to. Can anyone give me critique?
Don't even recognize your diddy compared to when you were fighting the foot. Everything in your game play has vastly improved. As for fastfaller combos I am not the person to ask, the most I got on fox combos are off grabs, which he is too fast to reliably do to, and you did the up air to nair after up throw anyway. Outside of that 36-48% in one exchange is about it when opponent has good d.i. At first it looked like a skill gap between you and the fox player, but during game 3 he made a ton of adjustments that made the matches much closer. Overall an enjoyable set and want to see the chaos when you teach your crew agt fun. (Notes: Done right fox pressure will make you have to roll away, and after a side b grab, hitting up air will pretty much auto followup.)

I got matches vs several players I am going to post later on, right now I want to learn good combos vs spacies and the extremely floaty characters cause they give me the most in tourney problems. If you got suggestions that would be great.
 
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Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Your ground control with diddy's bananas have made significant improvements. The only thing I notice is the lack of air mobility in the two 3 stock matches you showed on the video. Against g&w peanuts are nice, but only because you are able to immediately agt or wave dash straight out of it. By themselves, they are a very mediocre projectile.

As far as comboing g&w, it seemed like you were overambitious going for dair after the up smash over a guaranteed uair. Can't tell from the video, but you may be acting out of the move later than you have to. G&w can be deceptive on moves like dash attack, cause he can act out a lot sooner than it appears, so don't fall for the bait. Outside of that good set, win some lose some. Only technical suggestion I would make is switching up the throws every now and then. Most people use proper d.I for diddy's down throw(if your going to use it use it quickly), so doing a back throw instead allows you to have better stage position to pull bananas or attempt an edge guard.
 

Ross Hadden

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
3
Location
Maineville, Ohio
I love this match: youtu.be/v193EZViekA

Guy did a lot of amazing things, even while trying to deal with m2k's projectile spam. I tried in a match last week to AGT the peanut like he did at 9:45, but I'm finding it's not as easy as he makes it look.
 

Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Hey Guys! :D So i Finalllly after years of wanting actual gameplay between me and someone relavant to display to you guys,
I have some gameplay i wanna review because i feel you guys could help me break barriers where i have been playing blind. At the Bottom is links to Me Vs Gohan [A Top NJ Peach Player who comes from melee] in Winners Finals / GrandFinals at a small local i had this weekend, I just got my venue a stream so im using it to its full potential. Reviewing Gameplay xD

Before we go into gameplay, I'm going to actually introduce myself because im normally too shy to post on forums because i don't want people to think Im just some noob -.- None of you have probably ever heard of me, I'm kinda a Random who is hoping to make his way onto the scene soon. I main Diddy & Pit in Brawl/P:M (diddy is my stronger character tbh) I Created a Venue and got my areas scene together honestly in hopes of bringing the top players to me because i hit a barrier where i was the best in my county ([at brawl] I won a buncha locals but none of that really counts) but couldnt travel to tournaments to play against the better players and gain experiance and knowledge[i went to like 4 real tournys in a 4year span lol]. I hosted 3 brawl events before brawls scene died for my area, Keitaro came out to one of them, and he figured it was an easy tourny, he went squirtle against me in winners finals i guess assuming i was not proficient, i beat his squirtle twice pretty decently [2stock i think one match], then his main, falco, he 2stocked me then next game last stock low percent and on game5 i had a situation where i could have won as we were on last stocks, but choked a simple falco up+b gimp, and lost at that exact moment due to it. He admitted he underestimated me and i did a good job adapting [never fought a falco anywhere near his skill level] and he will see me in grand finals [stagefright happened and i choked in losers finals so it never happened], i was on tilt and lost to my rival of my area a wario player named fresh [i beat him at the next 2 tournys -.-], but yeah, I apparently was good at Brawl, and really should have came to the smash scene sooner because brawl died like 2 months later but at this point P:M was coming into the scene with 20-30 ppl showing up.

P:M i was horrendous at 1st, I got 9th outta like 18 at locals, got beatup by people i would 2-3stock in brawl and throughout the months, i struggled to learn wavedashing, l cancles, all this stuff, i didnt play diddy kong for 6months of me playing [i started in like January february], I stuck with Pit cuz he was my original Brawl main before diddy, aswell except hes actually good now so i can have fun playing him and i didnt want to mess with my Brawl diddy because P:M Diddy has an entirely different weight and feel and physics behind his moves. As time went on i started making my way into 4th/5th losing to only top people [usually there were some tournys where i was too busy T.O'ing and had no time to warmup and got wrecked lol xD o well, tis the duty of a T.O]

Anyways as i adapted to the P:M Movement with Pit, i got better, i got to the point where i was beating the locals and losing to top/high level players only, Mewtwo/Mario appeared on the scene and for some reason, My Pit cant handle MewTwo [i need to do alot of Pit training too tbh], I overheard how Emukiller lost to Ninjalink with Diddy and figured, fk it, brawls dead, Time to get Diddy back under my roster, At 1st I couldn't even Combo, and i struggled to understand the revamped item metagame and the new physics of his moveset. I would play pit in tournament until i run into a troublesome MU that i know i would lose [or lost game1] [Mewtwo, Mario, Fox if im too nervous to Chaingrab], id say fk it, i would lose as pit anyways, lets try out diddy against this guy [And i would somehow do Better!] For some reason, My Diddy within 3weeks was better then my Pit, As i adapted the new P:M stuff, The Brawl tactics and techs i utilize along with my instincts as a Diddy main, allowed me to do better in matchups where i have absolutely no idea whats going on half the time and i just played reactively, It's neat tbh.

Anyways My Diddy is ok, The brawl in me is very strong but my melee knowledge is still very very weak. It would mean alot if you guys could help me get better, I really feel it might be my time :D. And maybe im doing something new that might help some of u guys. Anyways here's the Gameplays, Check em out and thanks much for any Criticisms you can give me to point me in the Right Direction.

Game1 doesnt go too well, but from then on i played about as well as i can for now, still so much i need to improve, but these games i played this weekend definately has given me more confidence then ive ever had in my life for this game. Beating his 2ndarys and Taking a Game off His Peach [and keeping most of the other games close] is one step in the right direction. [last week his 2ndarys beat me consistently, and his peach like 3stocked me but i watched over the gameplays multiple times and this week i switched up my game it definately benefited]

Portal Smash Saturdays #6 - TPL | ContiBeastMode (Diddy Kong) Vs Gohan (Peach, Roy, Mario) - Winners Finals
http://www.twitch.tv/portallounge/c/5240429
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Portal Smash Saturdays #6 - TPL | ContiBeastMode (Diddy Kong) Vs Gohan (Peach) - Grand Finals - ProjectM
http://www.twitch.tv/portallounge/c/5240742
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/user/ContiBeastMode/videos <-- I'll be uploading other stuff there.
 
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Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Watched the 24 minute twitch video, you had very impressive banana play with very strong brawl influence showing in your play. Also noticed you began to take advantage of the peanuts more in later matches, since peanut to agt does well at shutting down peach's float. It just seems that your punish game isn't as strong as your item game for pm considering how many times you opened him up.

You don't really need banana advice so won't waste time there, but from what I noticed, it would be useful to leave one on the ground or glide toss down every so often to keep him guessing and mess up his approaches since he still uses dash attacks and instant down smash. Bananas versus another player with good item control can serve as a trap against your opponent to limit approaches and bait them into wave dash pick ups that can be punished.

Gohan is definitely not an amateur, and the fact he was troll picking with secondary characters using only pure fundamentals means that he probably saw enough in your playstyle to feel comfortable, or he wasn't taking you serious enough.

The biggest red flag in your play style came in the form of your recovery. Noticed you had difficulties sweet spotting the ledge, and tended to go for fair off the ledge which gohan began to bait. Outside of that, the only subtle changes would be finding the early percent combos off up throw and down throw to help improve punish game, and incorporating side b into your already well developed pressure game should give you an edge next time you play him. The punish game comes with time, and you won't get more than 41% in a combo vs peach usually anyway.
 
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Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Yeah you are definitely right, I kept saying to myself my banana item game is very advanced [im still trying to work on shorthop instant throwing items back in this game on command once i have that down, itll be amazing], but My punish game is just, not good, i guess everything and go with the flow. Also use the wrong options cuz im dumb or bad inputs on rare occasion.

I rarely GT Down in P:M [mainly cuz i was used to dribbling in Brawl which got removed] i'll try to practice some GT Down Mixups this week
Grounded banana plus peanut defense setup vs peach and floaty approaches, gotcha :]
Yeah probably both.
I'm still struggling with recoverys cuz ill hesitate distances, ill grind out sweet spotting this week cuz i havent really sat and practiced that [kinda been guessing everything til now]
And I would fair wayy too much it got me killed, i just couldnt think of other options, [what should i do in those scenarios other then, fair, sh wavedash, and i hate using roll/regular getup past 100% so idk]
Yeah i just started using Up-Throw this week, its good for early combos? [someone told me it was good for killing just this week which i NEVER noticed lol so i would keep it fresh til like 120%]
I definately need to DownThrow more, Fair Peachs Fair before it comes out, Work on my punish game.
Omg im bad, you are definitely right, I never go into Side-B off sheild pressure, i definitely gotta work that in, I did it in brawl i kinda just forgot about that option. And Peach is just like the MU in brawl then as i excepted, gotta hit and run essentially.
Thanks much dude. :D
 

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
Yeah you are definitely right, I kept saying to myself my banana item game is very advanced [im still trying to work on shorthop instant throwing items back in this game on command once i have that down, itll be amazing], but My punish game is just, not good, i guess everything and go with the flow. Also use the wrong options cuz im dumb or bad inputs on rare occasion.

I rarely GT Down in P:M [mainly cuz i was used to dribbling in Brawl which got removed] i'll try to practice some GT Down Mixups this week
Grounded banana plus peanut defense setup vs peach and floaty approaches, gotcha :]
Yeah probably both.
I'm still struggling with recoverys cuz ill hesitate distances, ill grind out sweet spotting this week cuz i havent really sat and practiced that [kinda been guessing everything til now]
And I would fair wayy too much it got me killed, i just couldnt think of other options, [what should i do in those scenarios other then, fair, sh wavedash, and i hate using roll/regular getup past 100% so idk]
Yeah i just started using Up-Throw this week, its good for early combos? [someone told me it was good for killing just this week which i NEVER noticed lol so i would keep it fresh til like 120%]
I definately need to DownThrow more, Fair Peachs Fair before it comes out, Work on my punish game.
Omg im bad, you are definitely right, I never go into Side-B off sheild pressure, i definitely gotta work that in, I did it in brawl i kinda just forgot about that option. And Peach is just like the MU in brawl then as i excepted, gotta hit and run essentially.
Thanks much dude. :D
1. Your not bad at all.
2. Diddy's off ledge game isn't super strong but not terrible either ( Fair Waveland down smash waveland shield grab, fall off angled up b, and just stalling in general.)
3. Even if you use side b, the kick can get you eating cc down smash if not carefully spaced and command grab can make you eat instant nair if not a mixup.
4. The other banana option I left out was simple z drops, which can allow you to go into falling nair or side b mix ups while she sits in shield. Footstool not being as good cause her oos is a fast enough of an option and will hit you and the projectile out the air if you approach from straight above.
5. You don't have glaring holes in projectile game, and your item game speed is better than mine so no real advice there. Would probably try focusing on combo game, problem is, not too many hi punish diddy's on this forum, and site kind of dead till 3.5 comes out, part of why people stopped posting videos. But after seeing Praxis more recent video, assuming everyone else is getting better too.
 
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Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
1. Thanks, i have confidence issues lol :3
2. Never thought of fall off up+b, and ah ok so waveland do stuff,
3. what scenario are u talkin about Side-B? on ledge or when im pressuring with peanuts and bananas :3
4. Yea I definitely need to Z-drop more, i just need to see the opportunity to utilize it, hmmm z-drop nair sounds like a really good poke, and Side-B grapple outta it sounds genius.
5. What u mean glaring holes? and yeah i know what u mean, im playing diddy after 3.5 regardless of any nerfs tbh :]
 
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Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
In the friendly I am leaving many holes in neutral and practicing tech, this is more for the learning of newer players. If someone has better knowledge of how to play link that would be greatly appreciated since I don't really play the character, I can only state the problems of approach.
Friendly: http://www.twitch.tv/eaglesmash/c/5217975
Unfriendlies: http://www.twitch.tv/eaglesmash/b/572344618
http://www.twitch.tv/eaglesmash/c/5265421
I am on from the 5hour 15 minute mark and onward from loser's bracket.
This is the week before tipped off 10, and have gotten better since then, but if someone has diddy advice to improve item play and punish game, it would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
I'm busy running 2 events today/tomorrow so ill try to check ur video out Sunday and see what insight i could give then, I trained very very hardcore this week with all the stuff we talked about, minus sweetspotting 100%, im better then last week but eh still need to work on perfection with it.
 

Searing_Sorrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
433
Location
Alma/Statesboro Georgia
I'm busy running 2 events today/tomorrow so ill try to check ur video out Sunday and see what insight i could give then, I trained very very hardcore this week with all the stuff we talked about, minus sweetspotting 100%, im better then last week but eh still need to work on perfection with it.
Thanks, so far my punish game has been recreating Fatality's falcon combos through banana placement and good reads. But I don't want to settle for just a great punish game, need to make up for the lack of serious brawl experience and increase my speed of play and item play a bit.
If you didn't view it by now, the match vs dk and Zelda already deleted.
 
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