Surprise, it's Unstoppabrawl! (Looking for local players!)

[Grim Tuesday]

Will this work for PAL?

 

[GameTrekker]

This is mentioned in the first post (under the downloads section), but the answer is... not currently. The reason why is simply because I don't know how to make a PAL version. From what I can tell, it's not a simple process.


...

Oh hey, I'm back apparently.

Yeah, that "break from Brawl modding" I talked about in my last post? Well, I took it. And now it's ending.

So, it's looking quite likely that there will be another build! ...within a few months, I mean. One thing I'm looking into again that I know will help hype this project up, though, is... wait for it...

...balanced Final Smashes.

Yep, those are in the works! There is something I need in order to carry this out, though: a code for the GCT file that changes the requirements for Pity Final Smashes; they need to be awarded when a fighter reaches their last stock (and even if another fighter already has one stored). If anyone reading this may be able to write such a code, I urge you to contact me. I know this code may seem like an odd way to go about balancing them, but believe me when I say I have an unorthodox plan for altering them that's best suited for this scenario.

Also there will of course be more fixes to stuff in the next build, including solutions to some problems with the beta that weren't addressed in the "indefinitely final version".


Oh, and I know there's understandably still demand for videos of Unstoppabrawl, especially informative ones. I'm going to attempt to do something about this soon.


EDIT: I should mention, I have also posted in the code request thread to see if I can get the code from there.

 

[BSL]

I suggest getting more people on your team if you haven't already.

 

[OBT]

i'm playing this right now, and i must say, he did a great job with this, and I really enjoy it

 

[NeverFiniteX]

I support this mod and all that you have accomplished, I really appreciate your work.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ask some of the Brawl Minus guys about Mega Smashes, as having multiple Final Smashes available will crash the game, especially if it's something like Falcon's. Using Mega Smashes might help quite a bit.

 

[standardtoaster]

The megacrash code by Kirk is extremely buggy and will crash the game if you do it as soon as you enter hitstun.

 

[BSL]

mega smashes didnt have anything to do with final smashes, iirc nor did we put it in any brawl minus build.

unless you mean mega crashes. which also dont have anything to do with final smashes

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Nah, was just throwing out an idea in case he couldn't get Final Smashes to work the way he wanted. And yeah, MSs aren't in any build, I just read about them on the Minus boards.

Never heard of Mega Crashes.

 

[MonkUnit]

You seem to be confusing the term mega smash with mega crash. There was never any mention of Mega smashes on smashmods, iirc.

 

[Problem2]

I've been skimming this thread some, and I haven't heard much about the actual balance of this mod. After playing it a while, the first thing that I immediately notice is probably too good is Sonic and his ridiculous dair. o_o I mean, it dizzies enemies on ground, and spikes enemies in the air. wtf?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I've been skimming this thread some, and I haven't heard much about the actual balance of this mod. After playing it a while, the first thing that I immediately notice is probably too good is Sonic and his ridiculous dair. o_o I mean, it dizzies enemies on ground, and spikes enemies in the air. wtf?

You will need to be editing arbitrary offsets to edit Nana's stuff. You should use Open SA2 to find the offsets. If you didn't do that and didn't use the outdated hitbox and throw modification engines (which will explain your final smash crashing if you did use them!), then you didn't edit Nana at all. If you took our .pac file for ICs and just removed the pummel speed change (which was put in to remove an infinite variation FYI; ICs force ground breaks and then have the other climber regrab, works on the whole cast), then you made Nana have a different pummel speed than Popo which I guess also fixes that infinite but is kinda goofy.

I haven't played this, but just to be honest looking over some of the buffs... I find it hard to believe this leads to balanced gameplay. G&W as an example is going to have a sickening shield pressure game in this. So, there's no powershielding which means if you block an attack, you take shield damage. G&W can already easily guarantee shield damage with lingering hitboxes (meaning it will be very hard to spotdodge if not impossible) on safe fair and bair. He's not going to be able to shield break easily off this, but he can easily get your shield down a bit. Now I start going nuts with dash attack. Dash attack also lingers so it will be very hard if not impossible to spotdodge. If I hit your shield, I either take it down to super critical territory at which you can't block anything (which will be easy to maintain with slow shield regen) and get thrown, which I don't mind, or I break it outright. If I break it, you eat a fully charged usmash and don't even get a full shield back instantly so I resume dash attack pressure if you don't die. If you end up with a super critical shield, I can basically do anything lingering, and you can't block it or spotdodge it. Your only recourses to fighting me are to zone with your attacks really efficiently, against one of the most disjointed characters in the game, or to run away until your shield is mostly full which is going to be very slow. I can see how someone like Marth who has a f1 invincible move and a Counter move could deal with this, but the majority of the cast seems like it would have no answer. For instance, what is Kirby supposed to do? I doubt G&W is the only one like this...

So far I've kept a track record of trying out every full game Brawl mod so I'll probably download and test this at least against the AI sometime soon, but reading over that list and knowing what those numbers mean makes me skeptical. I guess you could be going for the angle of shield being something that keeps you very safe (like it does in standard Brawl) but being a very, very, very limited resource (like you can only shield a few times per stock!), but that would seem to require radically changing the whole cast to work around that. Don't take it personally; I'm just being honest here.

Passing thoughts, at machine gun pace:

This suffers from Brawl-'s "Why should I ever block?" syndrome. This in turn means grabbing is generally a bad move for people not named Olimar, DDD, Jigglypuff, and such except in weird super armor cases that are now skewing matchups.

I like how some people are trying to describe this as BB with a higher balance target when MK is nerfed significantly more.

Ganondorf and Falcon are going to have really stupid double-side-b edge games. It's even more dumb on platforms.

Ganondorf's speed changes are pretty inconsistent. Random things are faster without rhyme or reason. Why was Thunderstorming nerfed, of all things? Ganon d-tilt is still way better than most his moves, now joined with nair spam. U-tilt and Warlock Punch are still relatively worthless.

Am I missing something, or is Toon Link substantially buffed? What's next, Olimar?

Oh. He is.

Peach is going to be absurd with crappy shields to begin with, much less specific buffs. A nearly safe counter and an armored projectile?

What's up with changed Fox's weight? Why make him easier to juggle?

Jigglypuff... Why would you nerf Fair? Her ground moveset and sing are still awful with these changes, which I think isn't what you are going for. Rollout wrecking shields is realllllly skewed with respect to level of play; it's irrelevant at high-level and still a trash move but more overpowered than Din's Fire at low levels. Meanwhile, Pound is insane but can no longer kill? Huh? Sing is also still trash.

Not that any of this matters because dair is a guaranteed Rest or Shield Break (OOPS CAN'T POWERSHIELD IT!) at all times, on everyone.

G&W is now even more u-smash spam. There may be some character who literally cannot get through it, at least without certain options. Dash attack is also weird. I don't understand why you'd buff up-b either, it's already one of the absolute best moves in the game, practically Shuttle Loop Jr. Edition.

I'm going to estimate the the Jigglypuff/Diddy matchup is at least 8:2, and Jigglypuff/G&W is 1:9. There's just a lot of balance issues running around here.

Speaking of move disparity, Din's Fire is still terrible. Good luck ever fixing that in the current framework.

Ness fair is already one of the best moves in Brawl, and you majorly buffed it? Ironically bbrawl does too by adding shield damage... which you didn't do. Meanwhile, he poor ground game outside of grabs was left mostly intact?

Snake's nerf pale in comparison to his nair and dair being god-tier moves. You can't dodge them, and now you can't block them either. Why would Snake do much else?

I hope none of this sounds rude, there's just several of these cases where the changes implemented are random or counter-constructive to your stated goals. Many bad moves were ignored or improved in an ultimately meaningless way, and several good moves were made even better. The balance target seems very inconsistent, as well as the exact nature of shield behavior you want. (Which again, in most cases ends up as Brawl- levels of unusability.)

Ultimately it's hard to see this as much else than "someone got a copy of bbrawl and made a bunch of changes to attacks and mechanics he didn't like". (Which is fine.) However, that definition is basically what Brawl+ was, except you started with bbrawl. You seem confused in the comparisons people are making, but the idea that Brawl is mechanically flawed and needs fixing, specifically via means of overvaluing offense, is exactly like Brawl+. The difference is that most complaints people have with Brawl being defensive relate to character speed and victim options on-hit, not that shielding is overpowered. Making shields nearly worthless doesn't change that.

Also, for the attacks with unchanged shield damage, the shield is still almost as good--that's the bizarre thing. Since you focused on shield regen as a nerf target, you've added significant incentive to run away, spam safe projectiles, plank, or scrooge. It just isn't very well thought out.

I really don't mean this as a personal attack at all, but when you throw in things like "I'll take out stale moves", "If luck is removed, the game will be better", or "I know, I'll buff rest!" it comes across as very amateurish. These are the sort of knee-jerk things you see new designers trying to do all the time, it's practically text-book. Again, I don't mean this to be rude at all. Hit me up on AIM/MSN sometime.

Finally, just as a warning you might want to give credit to uh, everyone. I don't give a hill of beans myself, but some other people might crucify you over it.

Tee hee.
10balancequotes

 

[ぱみゅ]

I spect this to be changing towards balance, because the idea itself is really good.

 

[GameTrekker]

Those quotes are outdated, Budget Player Cadet_. They were about the beta, and most of the problems they describe have been fixed in the current build. A few haven't, but I have plans to fix those too.

Sonic's dair was worthless in vBrawl. However, despite how much more devastating it can be in Unstoppabrawl, it still does almost no shield damage, is punishable on block, and is difficult to use without being predictable. That being said, I am considering heavily retooling it for the next build.

 

[[TSON]]

WAIT

it makes people dizzy?

infinite????

 

[GameTrekker]

Nope. Dizziness doesn't reset if you're dizzied again during it. If you're dizzied again during the recovery frames, then the dizziness does restart... in vBrawl. In Unstoppabrawl, a code is in place to prevent this.

 

[Dantarion]

loldizzy

10dizzyloops

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

In Unstoppabrawl, a code is in place to prevent this.

Oh dant, u so crazy

 

[GHNeko]

Shoulda of seen this sooner.

I gotcha. Ill get this up on Smods later on in the week. Lmao.

I suggest you PM me a really good news post to get people intersted in visiting.

 

[Timic83]

no offense to the creator but i just played this, and am a huge fan of plus, minus and project m. there was almost no difference between this game and brawl

 

[ぱみゅ]

no offense to the creator but i just played this, and am a huge fan of plus, minus and project m. there was almost no difference between this game and brawl

Unstoppabrawl​

...throws convention out the window to make Super Smash Bros. Brawl more balanced and more fun. The goals of this project are to make every character as balanced as possible, make nearly every attack useful as an attack, reduce random chance, and deepen the strategy of the game, but all with the intention of making the game more fun. Fun is what I started this project for over a year ago, and it remains the most essential aspect of it, by which every change is judged.


First of all, although the physics of the game are untouched, every character has received numerous changes to their attacks. You will likely have to relearn your character upon jumping into Unstoppabrawl. However, I am confident that you will enjoy these versions of the fighters more than the ones in vBrawl.

Are you sure you played it as it was supposed to?

 

[Xero]

What are your diferences as to what the creators of balenced brawl were going for

except the fun aspect of course?

 

[GameTrekker]

The most notable mechanical difference is the sum of the changes involving shields. Many attacks dealing greater shield damage is combined with shields taking a longer time to recharge and the removal of perfect shielding, making "shield management" a much more significant part of gameplay than any other Brawl mod. (Although I might as well announce here that "Melee-style" perfect shielding will be implemented in the next version of Unstoppabrawl, as that will still fix the problem I have with "Brawl-style" perfect shielding. I talk about this problem in the OP.) Oh, and stale move power reduction is removed from Unstoppabrawl too.

As far as design philosophy differences go, I went out of my way to try to make every attack in the game useful, for one thing. Also, the line in the OP that says Unstoppabrawl "throws convention out the window" means a number of things, particularly ones that differentiate this mod from Balanced Brawl. For instance, Balanced Brawl tries to make it easy for players to transition from the vBrawl version of their main to the Balanced Brawl version; Unstoppabrawl does not. Balanced Brawl strives to implement the minimum number of changes necessary to balance the game; Unstoppabrawl exhibits no such conservatism. Balanced Brawl mostly limits itself to changing hitbox properties; Unstoppabrawl only stays away from changing the game's physics. Balanced Brawl was made almost solely for balance, with fairness in the Brawl tournament scene being the ultimate goal; Unstoppabrawl was made... to make Brawl into what I personally wanted it to be, which included not only more balance, but also more gimmicks and crazy strategies!

I want to mention here that I have a lot of respect for the developers of Balanced Brawl. They've created an outstanding product; it's just not my personal preference (although it's much closer to what I want than the mods that basically turn the game into a completely difference experience).



On an unrelated note, I have a fix for Sonic's dair. It's not going to stun or spike in the next version; it will be much more... strategic!

 

[Kix]

The text file download doesn't work. Do you have it elsewhere? Also what is the code to remove PS?

 

[Rorroh]

None of the downloads are working, actually. Saw this on FSmash and was disappointed when it 404'd.

 

[GameTrekker]

Apparently the whole file hosting site that I used to store my files has gone down. It should be back up very soon, though.

 

[DunnoBro]

This game is unique but not really different enough for most people to make the competitive trek from brawl to this... I'd really like to see a lot of these ideas orchestrated in minus.

It'd be so cool to see a merge x.X

 

[Kix]

Okay, it's still not up yet. Until I try it, I was wondering if I can try the no-PS code?

I like the idea of this, but if you want a more intelligent defense situation, have you thought of implementing some kind of pushblock? Maybe guard stun isn't high enough for that.

 

[MonkUnit]

Why don't you just upload your things to www.mediafire.com ? That site won't be going down any time soon.

 

[GameTrekker]

Yeah, looks like I have to move to a new site after all. The original one was going to come back soon, but then there were more complications, and...

I'll have new links ready within 24 hours.


About the idea of a "merge": Of course this isn't going to happen. That being said, anyone is welcome to use my ideas (if I get whatever credit I deserve). It's no secret that I took a bunch of ideas from Balanced Brawl, after all.


Oh, and here's the "no-PS" code for anyone who wants it. I might as well make it available here especially since it won't be in the next build, which will have Melee-style Perfect Shielding.

No Perfect Shielding v2.2
C27ACF7C 00000005
2C030004 40A20018
83FF007C 83FF0038
2C1F001A 40A20008
38600000 7C7F1B78
60000000 00000000

Speaking of the next build, balanced Final Smashes and the "Final Stock Smash" mechanic are coming along.

 

[MonkUnit]

which will have Melee-style Perfect Shielding.

How are you going to have power shielding reflects projectiles? Project M still doesn't have a 100% perfect PS reflect code.

 

[GameTrekker]

Whoops! Yeah, I should have clarified. They won't reflect projectiles. By "Melee-style", I just meant that they can't be buffered and have a two-frame activation window. (I already have the codes I need for this.)

EDIT: Also, the links are fixed. Unstoppabrawl can be downloaded again. I apologize for the delay, and thank anyone who waited.

 

[Rorroh]

Woo, I'll set it up next chance I get!

Speaking of the next build, balanced Final Smashes and the "Final Stock Smash" mechanic are coming along.

Ooh, sounds really cool! Can't wait! ;D

 

[Meru.]

bump

This balanced Final Smashes thing sounds fun (and makes your project quite unique), any news about it?

 

[GHNeko]

When you figure out editting Final Smashes, gimme a ring lol

 

[Swordplay]

You know, when this came out I thought it was tredding on BB too. However, after reading the thread I've realized that your aiming for a much more casual audience.

In my opinion most of the people on Smashboards are competitive so of course they might say there are audience problems. And really casual players don't hack.

So what you need to do is make it more unique to create a new niche that hasn't been explored. You've started with smashballs and I like that but take it further. Smash balls you see, got me thinking about items which are used in really casual play. Now its just a thought, but have you ever though of collaborating with the item standard play thread here on smash boards?

A quick story, Before that ban meta knight debate, the largest debate to date was the debate whether or not to play with or without items in the beginning of melee. Ultimately it was decided without because items were not as balanced. You started with one item the smashball. You could take it further and create a item standard play niche.

To Be honest, its just an idea and probably not a very good one but take it as you will. Another truth is that since the days of the big debate, the Item standard play community has gotten real small. From what I have read in their thread though, they have been interested in hacks.

 

[lordhelmet]

Looks interesting. Probably would have been a good idea to contact different character boards since no one person knows what each and every character needs to be successful.

 

[ManEg]

Where can I find videos of this mod in action? Preferably ones that show most of the changes this has to offer.

 

[MonkUnit]

There are no videos of unstoppabrawl.

 

[PeachEater74]

I noticed that, I wanted to see something of it in action but I guess not.

I guess I'll actually have to download it to see how it is.