SUPER LION 4 - Villefontaine (near Lyon), FRANCE - August 7-9th-CONFIRM BEFORE AUG 2

[Tonb3rry]

No, he's not. There are better Brawl players than him.

Instead of writing ******** posts, just shut up. Please.
Armada hasn't lost one single Brawl tournament since the game was released, and he won SMACK which was the first European Brawl tournament(?). Till now, no one has beat him in a Brawl tournament, so as long as he remains the champion, he is the best. Shouldn't be the hardest logic. If there is someone better in Europe, they have to deserve the title, even if it's Brawl.

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

Whut, there were barely brawl players at smack.

 

[thataintflaco1338]

That was most definitely not the first brawl event in Europe lol

 

[MaNg0]

King > Mango, cuz he has a more entertaining Jiggz.
Everybody else's Falco > Mango's Falco, cuz they are more technical.

I love the Mango logic.

how is that my logic?

i hate flashy players

lol

and i cant really judge armada

hes a peach player

u cant judge peach players on youtube

they all loook the same

 

[Tonb3rry]

how is that my logic?
i hate flashy players, lol
and i cant really judge armada
hes a peach player
u cant judge peach players on youtube
they all loook the same

Removed all those empty lines of yours, lol.
Well, what I'm pointing at is:

ive never seen him do ne thing that impressed me

This is what I was talking about.
How is that supposed to tell how good Armada is? I don't know how many vids of Armada you've seen, but he has done a lot of impressive things I've never seen other Peach players do.
While you have just seen him play on youtube, I've seen most of his tourney matches live
No matter which char you see playing on youtube, there are always factors you can't judge at all just by looking at a vid.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Instead of writing ******** posts, just shut up. Please.

no u

Armada hasn't lost one single Brawl tournament since the game was released,

How many did he take part in? How was the competition? Winning a tourney =/= necessarily being good. (not saying Armada's bad)

and he won SMACK which was the first European Brawl tournament(?).

1.) Smack was neither the first nor the biggest european Brawl tournament
2.) Smack had no serious competition in Brawl
3.) There are players, who won bigger tournaments (Gaki, Gluttony, Marcbri etc)

Till now, no one has beat him in a Brawl tournament, so as long as he remains the champion, he is the best. Shouldn't be the hardest logic. If there is someone better in Europe, they have to deserve the title, even if it's Brawl.

Gaki won more tournaments than Armada did. And he also beats better players.

I'm not trying to say that Armada is bad or anything but there's no reason to assume he's the best. He hasn't won the biggest Brawl tourney (that would be either Gaki or Gluttony), he hasn't won those with the hardest competition (that's arguable but it's probably Gaki) and he hasn't beaten the best players either...

...

I agree with cash mooney. Smack was a Melee tournament, with some Brawl in it but there weren't many good Brawl players overall. Let's face it: EU completely sucks at Brawl and Armada mostly exploited the fact that the other attendants plain and si mply sucked.
****** people who suck at a game isn't a big deal anyways ...

 

[Slhoka]

As a consequence of the recent posts in this topic and the conversation we had with Blad, we (porc, Salepate and I) have decided that a clarification was necessary. The concern is mostly about the cash prize distribution among the various tournaments. Many players complain about this distribution not being fair. Let me explain why we chose to do so.
First of all, we think that this tournament is mainly a Melee tournament. We may not have stressed it enough, but we have always seen Brawl as a side event (a big one, though). Why is that so ? Well, first of all, we are Melee players. Don't get us wrong, we also play and enjoy Brawl, but definitely not as much as Melee. It's merely a preference, but the fact is that Melee is the game we love, and that's why we want it to be the main event of this tournament. The Tournoi du Super Lion series are also traditionnaly a Melee series : for instance, TSL3 was a Melee-only event, even though Brawl was already out in Europe.
Now that I have made clear our intentions regarding this event, you may want to ask why we decided to host a Brawl tournament, then. The main answer is that we wish to see both communities meet each other : I don't really know for the other countries, but in France, the two smash scenes are clearly separated, and we find it pretty sad, because both communities can learn from each other (and I don't want anyone to deny that because I've seen it by myself). We also think that while there is many national Brawl tournament, only a few were bringing players at a European scale.
As for the main object of concern : the cash prize distribution. We think that a majority of attendants will mainly come to Lyon for Melee. We also want to put some weight on Melee, as it is our main event. This has nothing to do with us thinking Brawl isn't competitive (and actually, that's not what I think). In short, we don't want to split the event equally between games because this is reflecting the attendance and because that's matching the way we want to host the events.

But let's assume we have to change the current 60-40% distribution. What can we do ?

• Set a separate price for each event : we don't want that. One of the reason for us to host a Brawl tournament is to have the communities mix up a bit. If we set separate prices, most Brawl players will only enter Brawl tournaments, and most Melee players will only enter Melee tournaments. In the end, we'll have gathered both communities to have the players of one community wait for the others to finish their tournament so they can freeplay on the other game. We really don't want that, and we'd rather drop the Brawl tournaments than doing that.
  Oh, and also, doing such a system is a pain regarding budget gestion.
• 50 - 50 : That isn't a valid option either, as it seems more than unlikely to us that the Brawl attendance will be as important as the Melee one. We also don't want that because we want Melee to be the main event.
• Splitting the cash prize according to the amount of players for each even : We could do that because some players would not attend an event in order to make the cash prize of the other higher.
• Give every player the choice to decide what percentage of the money they want to put for each event : A pretty original way to distribute the cash prize, but sadly not feaseable : it would come down to an opposition between Brawl***s (spending 100% of their money in the Brawl tournaments) versus the Meletards (doing the opposite), arbitrated by those who like both games or are open minded.

As you can see, we haven't found a good alternative regarding the distribution, and that's why we'll stick to the one we have announced so far. We may modify it later in one way or another depending on sudden massive participation or cancellation for one of the two games. Anyway, I think that the cash prize repartition should have little effect on the attendance, as only a few players will we competing for money. We also think that if cash prize is your main motivation to attend this tournament, then you shouldn't come. Travel costs johns are not legit because if you can't afford to accept a cash prize a bit lower, then it's probably better for your savings if you don't bet you can rely on your skill to win enough money to repay your trip.

I'd like to bring up another point we discussed with porc and salepate, that is, why we think we have the right to decide how to split the entry fees. It might be a bit rude to say it like that, but we are the ones hosting this event, and no one has the obligation to come. Adding two Brawl tournaments is good for sure, because it brings more people, but it's a lot more work to prepare the organization. Salepate, porc and I spent a lot of time planning and preparing this event, and a lot remains to do. Many people used the word "fair" to contest our choice. However, we think it would be fair if we can decide how we want to host our own event, and I'm pretty sure that many of those who have already hosted a tournament will have the same feeling.
Instead of focusing on the few euros of your entry fee that are in stake during the cash prize distribution, I think it would be better to focus on the fact that there is a Europe-sized Brawl tournament you have the choice to attend, and that is is probably the most important thing.

I would finally say one more thing, and I apologize in advance for being rude (I'm also sorry if I was a bit too direct in the previous paragraphs), but about this last thing, I can't help it. As I said in the first lines of this post, Salepate, porc and I had a conversation with Blad regarding this cash prize distribution issue. I didn't agree with his argumentation, but that was ok, it's just a different opinion. However, he told us that because we are Melee players, we were vicious, not trustworthy and that our motivation to host a Brawl event was to make use of the Brawl community for the purposes of the Melee one. Worst, he called us thieves because of this distribution. To be honest, I'm really appalled by such a comment (especially from someone who asked me for a "little trick to keep money" while hosting tournaments), and would like to adress a message to those who think the same thing (who are only a few, I think -and hope) : if you happen not to trust us, stay at home. You aren't the kind of person we want to see at the TSL series. Host your own tournament if you want, but don't complain about ours. Having such a behaviour towards the member of the other community is also pathetic (same goes for the ones who keep spitting at the other game). Those people are the reason why some players have a bad opinion of the other community.
I'm sorry for bringing up this point, as it only aims for some people (very few, in the case of the theft accusation), but I was so upset about it I really had to get it off my chest.

Please remind that we're open to discuss these points with those who want to bring new ideas and are able to trust us.

BTW, thanks you Marcbri for understanding our point of view.

And please stop with the Armada fanboyism, that's dumb. If people say they can beat him, well, we'll see if they can, it's that simple >_>

 

[K@0S]

I'm not trying to say that Armada is bad or anything but there's no reason to assume he's the best. He hasn't won the biggest Brawl tourney (that would be either Gaki or Gluttony)

I won the biggest in France so that can't be Glutonny (105 people, Glutonny was second)

Instead of writing ******** posts, just shut up. Please.
Armada hasn't lost one single Brawl tournament since the game was released, and he won SMACK which was the first European Brawl tournament(?). Till now, no one has beat him in a Brawl tournament, so as long as he remains the champion, he is the best. Shouldn't be the hardest logic. If there is someone better in Europe, they have to deserve the title, even if it's Brawl.

Wow. THAT post is ********.

 

[Blad01]

First of all Slhoka (and porc and Salepate), thank you for answering to the complaints with a detailled and clear post. I can understand your point of view a bit better now.

We also want to put some weight on Melee, as it is our main event. This has nothing to do with us thinking Brawl isn't competitive (and actually, that's not what I think). In short, we don't want to split the event equally between games because this is reflecting the attendance and because that's matching the way we want to host the events.

I completely understand that you prefer Melee over Brawl, but what I question is the way to express it. I don't really like the idea of putting more weight on the Melee event with money / cashprize. I suggested this to porc, and I would like to know what you three would think of simply putting more events for Melee. By example, you could do (assuming you have enough time, which can be an issue sadly) 2 events for Brawl, and 3 for Melee. Every one would have to pay equally for four tournaments (Brawl single - double, Melee single - double), and the third Melee tournament would not be compulsory. (And since it could be a crew tournament, I doubt you would like Brawl-noobs in it XD)

Also you say that you don't think that Brawl is not competitive, but a 60 - 40 cashprize pretty much shows your opinion on the subject (Salepate told me that Brawl was inferior to Melee anyways, and thus a 60 - 40 is justified).

Set a separate price for each event : we don't want that. One of the reason for us to host a Brawl tournament is to have the communities mix up a bit. If we set separate prices, most Brawl players will only enter Brawl tournaments, and most Melee players will only enter Melee tournaments. In the end, we'll have gathered both communities to have the players of one community wait for the others to finish their tournament so they can freeplay on the other game. We really don't want that, and we'd rather drop the Brawl tournaments than doing that.
Oh, and also, doing such a system is a pain regarding budget gestion.

I would personnally enter the Melee tourney (Single, and probably doubles) just for the fun, and in order to help in making it bigger, but I guess not everyone would, and Brawl freeplay would be very tempting too.
So you're probably right, it's not convenient.

50 - 50 : That isn't a valid option either, as it seems more than unlikely to us that the Brawl attendance will be as important as the Melee one. We also don't want that because we want Melee to be the main event.

I don't think that Brawl attendance will be necessarily less important than Melee one.
Since you pretend to be open-minded, you could have made it 50 - 50, but I must recognize that this isn't really a fair option, considering that there won't be a equal number of Melee players and Brawl players.

Splitting the cash prize according to the amount of players for each even : We could do that because some players would not attend an event in order to make the cash prize of the other higher.

I like this option, and that is the option I wanted to submit to you.
I assume that you wanted to write "We could not". You could also make the events mandatory, and ask each player for what game he mainly came for.
This would be a bit complicated though.

However, he told us that because we are Melee players, we were vicious, not trustworthy and that our motivation to host a Brawl event was to make use of the Brawl community for the purposes of the Melee one. Worst, he called us thieves because of this distribution.

Well, this was exaggerated on purpose, but I wanted to make sure I was being unsterdood. (I didn't exactly said that since you were Melee players, you were vicious though...)
Also, to explain my point a bit, I suspected you to have added the Brawl event just to attract more players, make this tournament bigger, and to have a bigger cashprize. Being open-minded towards the Brawl community was probably a motivation too (And I really appreciate it), but I'm just not convinced it was the only one.
You said it yourself :

Adding two Brawl tournaments is good for sure, because it brings more people, but it's a lot more work to prepare the organization.

I was trying to explain my point of view as good as possible, even if I had in this purpose to exaggerate a bit. Sorry if I hurt you by calling you thieves, I don't really have any hard feelings towards you three at all.
But if after this discussion, you decide to keep the same organization concerning cashprize (which I still find unfair), I will just shut up, accept it and never compain about it anymore, and come anyways.
(After all the advertising I made, I can't decide not to come anyways )

On an other subject : Please don't make Mango run away, guys XD

 

[Mars-]

Lol suck a dick Tonb3rry.






Didn't oro, bach, and the rest of the crew from newly weds or w/e they are called go **** europe in 2005?



Ohh and when europe came to the us they got *****, and smell like shit.

So really when we say that the US is better, there isn't really anything you can say about it, because it has been proven.

I'm not sure how well M2K is going to do because his characters are nerfed, but if puff is the same in Pal as it is in nsca or w/e it's called, and pal is more balanced, then wouldn't that make puff better?

And LOL at $800 not being a lot.

 

[Tonb3rry]

Wow. THAT post is ********.

I must say, you really outsmarted me and everyone with that really "smart" sentence.
I don't know if you even read my post, or if your logic fails, BUT I'll try explain it further more. How the hell do you know that someone is better than Armada when he hasn't yet lost a single Brawl tournament? Okay I can assume that someone in Europe probably is better, but you can't really tell for sure, cuz he hasn't been beaten yet(do I have to say this more times?). Armada has booked tickets for tourneys all over Europe, so instead of just posting bullsh*t, just show up at the tourneys and prove something instead. You don't really have to be that smart to do that

 

[Luma]

1. no you didnt "*****", get your facts straight

2. the only real good player was Helios, and he did pretty good actually, getting 9th @ FC6 (or just watch his set vs darkrain)
plus, at that time he might have been the 3rd best in europe, but there was simply a huge difference between the first 2 and the 3rd best, so again, dont talk about things you dont understand sweety

3. we got another way to play, esp with sheik, thats why you cant just only look at the nerfs

4. 800$ isnt that mutch for a flight to europe

 

[K@0S]

I must say, you really outsmarted me and everyone with that really "smart" sentence.
I don't know if you even read my post, or if your logic fails, BUT I'll try explain it further more. How the hell do you know that someone is better than Armada when he hasn't yet lost a single Brawl tournament? Okay I can assume that someone in Europe probably is better, but you can't really tell for sure, cuz he hasn't been beaten yet(do I have to say this more times?). Armada has booked tickets for tourneys all over Europe, so instead of just posting bullsh*t, just show up at the tourneys and prove something instead. You don't really have to be that smart to do that

No, your logic fails, and I found it useless to explain it since Gheb did it. And what I found even more ******** is the way you answered Gheb, with words like "shut up" and "********" (which I used too, as an answer ).

Saying that someone it the best in europe at brawl at the moment is the true BS, to take your words. Did he play against the bests in France ? Spain ? Netherland ?

And seriously, don't talk about Smask. Bjay was the only french player here, and he did better here (4th) than he usually does in french tourneys (to show an example).

 

[ajp_anton]

Uh, I thought the 60-40 was because more people will play Melee than Brawl (about 60-40). If Melee is going to be more than 1.5x the size of Brawl, then 60-40 is very generous to you Brawlers as you will actually get *more* money than Melee.

Splitting the cash prize according to the amount of players for each event

This is the right thing to do.

 

[Zgetto]

Isnt like 50% of the usa fat??
Also Europa >>> usa in pretty much everthing we do so why be so cocky usa??
And this random mars guy... you say usa is better but hiding behind your top players still means your **** at the game. You aint got nothing to do with how good the usa is at this game so stfu plz.

 

[Talvi]

...or you could just not attend to this tournament if you don't like it. If you have a better idea for a tournament host one.

We should be glad they listen to us and even answer us. I mean if I hosted something and there were any complains I'd probably tell them to GTFO.

 

[ajp_anton]

Right now there are so many Euro-players that haven't been beaten in Brawl that you can't say who is the best. Wait until they meet.

$700-800 for USA-Europe-USA isn't that much really. It's funny that we europeans are the ones who think that's normal, even though we fly within Europe for 10-20€ with Ryanair while americans pay a lot more. Maybe because we actually travel around the world a lot more than americans who rarely go outside their country? =)
Can't wait until Ryanair starts flying between the continents. It's supposed to happen next year I think.

 

[Mars-]

Isnt like 50% of the usa fat??
Also Europa >>> usa in pretty much everthing we do so why be so cocky usa??
And this random mars guy... you say usa is better but hiding behind your top players still means your **** at the game. You aint got nothing to do with how good the usa is at this game so stfu plz.

No.

LOLOLOL, yeah your pretty good just like the rest of europe right? Or maybe europe is really bad and you just think your good.

 

[Zgetto]

I could say the same about mango... Except the difference is no one cant even beat his jigs with the broken fox's and sheiks.. So how good are you guys really?

 

[Nizro]

Mars-- Zgetto is pretty good.. ******..

Anywho I have only seen like 2 good brawl players (Good meaning, they are better than you, period),
Which are Armada and Pepito.. everyone else seem pretty dull to me..

Watch Armadas <SHIEK> taking out MKs, IC, whatever like nothing.. He is the best brawl player and the most entertaining one 'IMO'

And really the deal with 60-40.. grow up.

 

[ajp_anton]

Why don't you just come here and win this thing if you think we are so bad? Before that you don't have anything backing up your claims.
The way we play the game is very different from yours, and because of this, we think you suck and you think we suck. It will be interesting to see our best players meet. Looking forward to Genesis.

And how can anyone say Armada *is* the best Brawl player? I bet he's not the only "unbeatable" player...

 

[Tero.]

****, right now I'm so pissed because I can't attend this.

1. no you didnt "*****", get your facts straight

2. the only real good player was Helios, and he did pretty good actually, getting 9th @ FC6 (or just watch his set vs darkrain)
plus, at that time he might have been the 3rd best in europe, but there was simply a huge difference between the first 2 and the 3rd best, so again, dont talk about things you dont understand sweety

3. we got another way to play, esp with sheik, thats why you cant just only look at the nerfs

4. 800$ isnt that mutch for a flight to europe

wow so much **** in this post.
true story.

And seriously, don't talk about Smask. Bjay was the only french player here, and he did better here (4th) than he usually does in french tourneys (to show an example).

Wasn't he ranked 2nd on the last french PR?

No.

LOLOLOL, yeah your pretty good just like the rest of europe right? Or maybe europe is really bad and you just think your good.

failguy.


Oh and please now let us stop this stupid eu/usa and melee/brawl ****, kkthxbye.

 

[stelzig]

Uh, I thought the 60-40 was because more people will play Melee than Brawl (about 60-40). If Melee is going to be more than 1.5x the size of Brawl, then 60-40 is very generous to you Brawlers as you will actually get *more* money than Melee.

Indeed i don't really see why this is so hard to understand.

And if you base it on attendance for the events then it would be the same as letting them only pay for one. Granted people are aware of it beforehand of course... (and asking people what game they mainly come for is going to put up the exact same thing. Or maybe it will give brawl a little more money because i think more brawl "mainers" are interested in playing melee than the other way around)

 

[Tonb3rry]

And how can anyone say Armada *is* the best Brawl player? I bet he's not the only "unbeatable" player...

It's wrong to say that, but it's also wrong to say that someone that hasn't played Armada is better than him, as he has got the best placement in all the tourneys he went to. So it hasn't been proved, by other words. I can admit that what I said was wrong, but the question is; can the Brawl-fanboys that said that someone else that has never been to the same tourney as Armada is better? Neither them nor I can really know the answer to that.

K@0S: I explained to Gheb why it was ********, you just wrote something ******** and nothing more. You probably didn't read more than the first sentence. How professional. You might as well read the other stuff I've written in this post, but you probably don't understand it.

 

[Blad01]

Wasn't he ranked 2nd on the last french PR?

To be exact, Bjay :
- is currently 4th on 2009 Rankings.
- was 10th on BI 2008 Rankings and 2nd on 2008 General Rankings.
(Cf : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214095)

 

[Kasper!]

why do i get the feeling that tonb3rry isnt loved on the boards much

 

[Tero.]

why do i get the feeling that tonb3rry isnt loved on the boards much

<3 Tonberry

 

[K@0S]

why do i get the feeling that tonb3rry isnt loved on the boards much

Maybe because of the way he speaks to people as if they were idiots.

 

[Joanna Dark]

you have no idea how much cooler than you tonberry is...

 

[Blad01]

you have no idea how much cooler than you tonberry is...

I could easily say the opposite, so this no going anywhere XD

Anyways, let's stop this debate, we'll see the results to determine who's best at Melee between America and Europe, and who's the best european brawler... ^^

 

[porc]

Tonberry is cooler.

 

[Salepate]

Yeah shut up, tonberry is cooler than you are. He has a bigger d*ck than you french guys.

 

[Slhoka]

Indeed i don't really see why this is so hard to understand.

And if you base it on attendance for the events then it would be the same as letting them only pay for one. Granted people are aware of it beforehand of course... (and asking people what game they mainly come for is going to put up the exact same thing. Or maybe it will give brawl a little more money because i think more brawl "mainers" are interested in playing melee than the other way around)

That's an excellent summary explaining why we would be reluctant to do so. It's the best theoric solution, but it wouldn't really work.

Oh and besides being one of, it not the best European tournament hosts, Tonberry is an amazingly cool guy. I wouldn't compare to you because it's nothing but my point of view (and also because it's pretty obvious), but he's just awesome.
I must say I'm pretty surprised by the way he reacts to every trashtalk or troll about Melee or Armada, though =/

 

[craiigg]

I could say the same about mango... Except the difference is no one cant even beat his jigs with the broken fox's and sheiks.. So how good are you guys really?

Fuzz : That's pretty much how I feel zghetto, If our good fox players can beat jiggz here why are they having trouble with mango in america? it's stupid

 

[Retroking2000]

zgetto ***** in smash and in smashboards

 

[Gmoney_]

Question about the venue. Are there showers available there ?

 

[Slhoka]

Question about the venue. Are there showers available there ?

Good question.

No, there aren't. We'll try to pass a deal with a swimming pool situated at a 10/15 mn walking distance. We'd want to be able to use their showers. In the worst case, I guess we could just use it paying the regular fee (1 our 2 euros).

 

[MaNg0]

I could say the same about mango... Except the difference is no one cant even beat his jigs with the broken fox's and sheiks.. So how good are you guys really?

this guy knows whats up

 

[Alex_Death]

i can go to this tourney but im a ñUUb

 

[Marcbri]

LOL Alex is actually from Spain, not Florida xD.