Tamoo
Smash Master
I read somewhere that rest has as much as 13 invincibilty frames,
This cant be right can it? Thats utter bull**** lol for such a good move
This cant be right can it? Thats utter bull**** lol for such a good move
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Stuff About Puff
- Thread starter MaNg0
- Start date
- Status
tw1n
Smash Champion
Rest has 3 frames where it does the attack and puff is invinsible for all 3 frames. M2K told me that one lol.
And I have phantomed rest people during tournament matches for the win changed to a loss... ya. Never fun =[
And I have phantomed rest people during tournament matches for the win changed to a loss... ya. Never fun =[
idea
Smash Master
hmm...there are 26 frames where her whole body is blue. her eyes close on frame 27. but that couldn't mean all of those are invincibility frames...right?
Once I hit a rest, it did damage, had fire effects, but virtually no knockback.
Once I hit a rest, it did no damage, had no effects, but had regular knockback.
THIS HAPPENED IN THE SAME DAY. WUTT.
Once I hit a rest, it did no damage, had no effects, but had regular knockback.
THIS HAPPENED IN THE SAME DAY. WUTT.
tw1n
Smash Champion
I don't know lol. I know the whole move itself is long enough. But the damaging frames are only 3 and thats where she's invincible. But as I said before. Thats what mew2king told me at genesis and what does he know
(sarcasm for those who can't read a joke lol)
Tamoo
Smash Master
yeah, 13 frames of invincibility seemed a bit rediculous, ill probs check out the frame data in a bit
Tamoo
Smash Master
This seems v. bull****, this is from superdoodleman's frame data
Rest
Total frames: 249
Hit: 1
Invincible: 1-26
Rest
Total frames: 249
Hit: 1
Invincible: 1-26
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Quoting you is hard has heck.... how do you type like this..
Anyways I remember at Pound 3 Mango's rest on m2k's sheik did no damage and only knockback....
Does anyone know how or why?
idea
Smash Master
"Once I hit a rest, it did damage, had fire effects, but virtually no knockback.
Once I hit a rest, it did no damage, had no effects, but had regular knockback.
THIS HAPPENED IN THE SAME DAY. WUTT."
wow, you really can't quote people when the talk in gradients.
'Once I hit a rest, it did damage, had fire effects, but virtually no knockback.'
yeah, wtf is that? it happens to me very rarely.
Once I hit a rest, it did no damage, had no effects, but had regular knockback.
THIS HAPPENED IN THE SAME DAY. WUTT."
wow, you really can't quote people when the talk in gradients.
'Once I hit a rest, it did damage, had fire effects, but virtually no knockback.'
yeah, wtf is that? it happens to me very rarely.
huh. i have some of the frame data from that program that was put up. i tried to save it and it failed halfway through, but i still have all the frames for a bunch of characters saved as jpegs. so according to both of those, jiggs is invincible for 26 frames. wow.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Phantom hit. Or someone did a true CC on it.
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
About rests...
I'm alright with rests right now. I'm at a point where I can consistently punish missed grabs, laggy landings, and tech chase from under platforms, and I can occasionally punish poorly spaced aerials by just floating in a rapesleeping them.
But all of these are opportunities that must be given to me by the nublet i'm playing. I'd like to force my opponent into a state of helplessness and end a combo with a rest. But my aerials knock them back too much and every time I try to jab reset them for the Mango Combo, I get getup attacked somehow.
Could someone help explain to me the basic principles of aerial juggling and jab resets without quoting everything I said and simply suggesting, "**** more."
Thank you kindly.
I'm alright with rests right now. I'm at a point where I can consistently punish missed grabs, laggy landings, and tech chase from under platforms, and I can occasionally punish poorly spaced aerials by just floating in a rapesleeping them.
But all of these are opportunities that must be given to me by the nublet i'm playing. I'd like to force my opponent into a state of helplessness and end a combo with a rest. But my aerials knock them back too much and every time I try to jab reset them for the Mango Combo, I get getup attacked somehow.
Could someone help explain to me the basic principles of aerial juggling and jab resets without quoting everything I said and simply suggesting, "**** more."
Thank you kindly.
I knew it was a phantom hit, I was just saying that it was peculiar that both kinds of phantom hits (sometimes differentiated by the terms 'phantom hit' and 'ghost hit') happened in the same day. xD
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Depending on the character you are playing against, the move you are using, the spacing of your move (late uair, hit with the tip of the utilt, etc.), and mostly their percentage, sometimes you can get it and sometimes you can't.
Juggling into rest isn't something you have to memorize though (otherwise it would be way too much). When you are juggling your opponent, if you can rest, rest. Otherwise back off because most likely they will throw out an aerial waiting for you to jump into it.
... I don't know how to Mango Combo sorry.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
somebody please teach me what to do vs jiggs
this is very serious im hoping for serious responses hopefully by good and/or knowledgeable ppl that know what they are talking about
this is very serious im hoping for serious responses hopefully by good and/or knowledgeable ppl that know what they are talking about
stingers
Smash Obsessed
m2k asking for help
@.@
go shiek and needle camp.
@.@
go shiek and needle camp.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
One thing I noticed when KDJ played Darc a lot was KDJ would always aim for behind Jiggs (with Fox). And if he got the nair or bair behind he would almost ALWAYS turn around jab to grab or shine. If Darc jumped OoS it was a free upsmash a lot.
I don't really see what Jiggs can do to punish Wavedash back OoS if they are pressuring your shield without making it really obvious.
I think upthrow to bair works a lot better, and at high % (honestly upthrow upair will never work against really good Jiggs) I would consider dthrow tech chasing.
One of the best opportunities to hit Jiggs is right when she lands on a platform. Armada did this really well against Mango at first, always hitting Mango during his landing lag. With Fox I can see this being easily possible.
Get really good at laser camping again.
Edit: And on platform stages I would consider upthrow -> waveland follows. That can lead to upairs or upsmashes sometimes.
otg
Smash Master
m2k:
Go Doc. Seriously, you'll **** any jiggs you face.
Go Doc. Seriously, you'll **** any jiggs you face.
Tamoo
Smash Master
One thing I noticed zgetto did against jiggs was a lot of wavedash back into utilt as fox, and it seemed to cut a lot of options for infernum.
It seemed to work so well, might be useful for ya
It seemed to work so well, might be useful for ya
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
from the fruit himself
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
M2K I seriously doubt you're the type to watch vids of other players but if you're set on using Fox it probably wouldn't hurt to take another look at how Colbol and Lucky play the matchup. If nothing else it could get you thinking.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
m2k just doesnt play gay enough...he plays how he WANTS to play, not how he should play...
Tamoo
Smash Master
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
idea
Smash Master
wow, his marth looked really slick there.
maybe you should think about it in terms of players, too...vs. mango, maybe try sheik, since he couldn't be getting much sheik practice on the west coast, and since your sheik has improved since the last time you did that matchup.
vs. hungrybox, maybe sheik too. i know he loves the marth matchup. fox could work there...not sure how he is against non-approachey fox. probably still tough.
as for darc...insult his pride and make him go falcon.
Miles.
Smash Champion
hey mango why did you pick the name mango??
2001
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2009
- Messages
- 307
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
"He got his name in the 5th grade when he was playing CounterStrike and he was hungry so he put his name as "I want Mangos" and since that day everyone called him Mango."
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Mango
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
Vanz ducked cactuar's fox's grab in a crew battle.
Supposedly jiggly's first few duck frames get him really really low.
Supposedly jiggly's first few duck frames get him really really low.
idea
Smash Master
yeah, as far as i can tell, ducking only works for the first frame/few frames. not reliable, and no one really does it, so m2k doesn't really need to factor it in. can technically be done, though. actually it'd be REALLY useful to be able to duck it on command.
edit: ohhh i see. tipped off 5. lol. i hope you let them put grand finals up so people here can tell you specifically what you're doing wrong.
edit: ohhh i see. tipped off 5. lol. i hope you let them put grand finals up so people here can tell you specifically what you're doing wrong.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
m2k
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idea
Smash Master
come on. tell him how to beat you.
i saw you vs hbox on the TO5 livestream
i noticed you jump a lot out of shield (and double jump). you were probably nervous, but obviously you can't just jump out of shield every time and expect to be safe
at one point on stadium you were just fullhopping and double jumping nairs or bairs trying to land on top of hbox... he's probably gonna space so that wouldnt really work imo, bairs would go through it
i like to run up and shield... puff will do their little bairs cause thats what they do, then after it hits your shield wavedash in and nair them. taj does this with mewtwo, except he wavedashes towards and dtilts to grab instead. i do it with sheik except with fairs and sometimes tilts if thats all i can get
then they can mix up by doing bair to immediate fsmash or something to catch your wavedash, but if they start doing that you can just wait and grab, or punish the fsmash with WD forward to dsmash if they spaced it far. you're pretty good at this game i think you could figure it out better than me
but yeah, i guess wavedash out of shield, less fullhops. you know it's a basic strategy to grab them when they land, but puff tries to do retreating aerials so that its hard for you to grab them, so run up to them when they do a retreating aerial landing on the ground, they'll throw out another move to try to avoid the grab, but you shield it, then you can nair out if they go over you or wavedash towards them if they retreat again
and watch LuCKy... socal fox he plays w/ mango so im pretty sure he's figured out what to do most of the time, he likes to kill with jab > aerial (upair or bair) if they're too high to upthrow upair. i think you need to read puff's air pattern better.. but i feel like a noob trying to tell M2K what to do lol.
oh yeah also i dont think prolonged camping works too well, it makes you kinda predictable
i know this isn't well written or anything but if you wanted more clarification just ask
tw1n
Smash Champion
Ok so whats the best way to approach a campy Marth, Fox, and Falco. Those *******s are ruining my life!!!
Cia
das kwl
hungrybox
Smash Legend
o yahh
i geta johb
i geta johb
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I know we've talked about playing Jiggs conservatively, or aggressively in singles, but what about doubles? What do you guys find more effective? I personally find conservative play much more effective. It does depend on your partner though.
If my partner is a Fox, for example, I would stand behind the Fox. In the Ganon boards, we've talked about how to play Ganon in doubles, and he's a very efficient "wall", meaning he stands in front of his partner, making him the "wall" that the enemies have to get through. But if we're talking about Jiggs, and his partner is Fox, Fox will definitely be the wall, just because of his versatile mobility.
That's just one play style, setting up the wall, and punishing when they try to get behind your partner. Are there any more play styles that you guys are aware of?
And how do you guys recommend people to play Jiggs in teams? I'm curious, and this thread is lacking in-depth discussion.
If my partner is a Fox, for example, I would stand behind the Fox. In the Ganon boards, we've talked about how to play Ganon in doubles, and he's a very efficient "wall", meaning he stands in front of his partner, making him the "wall" that the enemies have to get through. But if we're talking about Jiggs, and his partner is Fox, Fox will definitely be the wall, just because of his versatile mobility.
That's just one play style, setting up the wall, and punishing when they try to get behind your partner. Are there any more play styles that you guys are aware of?
And how do you guys recommend people to play Jiggs in teams? I'm curious, and this thread is lacking in-depth discussion.
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