Binx
Smash Master
I don't have nearly as much trouble with marth
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Stuff About Puff
- Thread starter MaNg0
- Start date
- Status
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
well maybe the marth's you play arent so good lol
idk i just thought because of his tippers and stuff it was more then foxes upsmash/uair/upthrow
idk i just thought because of his tippers and stuff it was more then foxes upsmash/uair/upthrow
PB&J
Smash Hero
false statement..most of them are scared of puff these days..but fox ***** puff just read her and get a grab and thats it but ... people get so scared of puff sometimes they beat themselves and this is at high level play
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
lol
def not false
and they are scared because there are good puff players these days, not because of puff herself, most players dont know the puff MU good enough tho
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
yes fox is by far her worst matchup
i got beat by colbol in tourney yesterday lol -_-
-hungrybox
i got beat by colbol in tourney yesterday lol -_-
-hungrybox
Binx
Smash Master
Thank you!
Honestly guys the troubles I have with Fox are things like weak nair to upsmash or laser spam to up smash.
With Marth is more of a spacing game, I can be very patient, with Fox he can force me to approach him and take advantage of the lack of speed. It also doesn't help that I'm not sure how the match up works from Jiggs perspective.
Honestly guys the troubles I have with Fox are things like weak nair to upsmash or laser spam to up smash.
With Marth is more of a spacing game, I can be very patient, with Fox he can force me to approach him and take advantage of the lack of speed. It also doesn't help that I'm not sure how the match up works from Jiggs perspective.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
marth can be REALLY exploited
idea
Smash Master
if marth fsmashes, and you roll onto him just as he uses it, you can rest him out of this. i swear it works but i haven't tested it yet. looks sooo stupid.
definitely fox harder than marth though.
okay, in my experience...
nair good, bair good, fair better. play 1) trying to intercept their movement, 2) trying to get rests, and/or 3) trying to get gimp kills.
1) fair, basically. nair and bair for mixups. this part i just kind of make up as i go and anyone else posting will have something else to say.
2) uptilt, upair, nair, dair (sort of), upthrow, upthrow upair, upthrow techchase, upthrow upair techchase, just plain techchase, ****ing dthrow techcase...roll prediction, recovery prediction (lol i rested raynex as he landed on stage with a firefox this weekend)
3) ask hungrybox. hit them with things/fair offstage a bunch.
haha, why did i make a numbered list?
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
If you're trying to get some edge gimps, what's the best way into baiting/forcing them to the edge?
hungrybox
Smash Legend
You can't bait a pro fox. They will just camp you.
You have to approach fox with a nair, and when you have an open spot you have to grab him and throw him to the edge. He will either tech and roll right back to you or tech at the edge. You can punish either.
Bair is REALLY good against marth. Not so much fox...you should use nair for fox.
idea
Smash Master
alternatively, you could use aerials until they're off the edge. follow them around and hit them.
GSUB
Smash Lord
this is perfectly stated.
no wonder king always wins.
he's already intimidating in the first place.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
In other words, space and make sure you don't get hit while pressuring them to the side? If so, how would you pressure a Fox? He's way too fast.
Binx
Smash Master
Okay thats probably where I go wrong, I use bairs vs fox and he was upsmashing me out of them or just getting away all together, or sneaking stuff in between them, I just thought it was because he was predicting me too well, or because I was miss-spacing attacks, I didn't know it was because it was a poor move choice vs him all together.
I can gimp him pretty well off the edge, thats not where I was having problems.
Wolfeye
Smash Apprentice
anyone besides fox that bair isn't that good against?
and I seem to have real trouble with Ganon and Samus >_>
and I seem to have real trouble with Ganon and Samus >_>
idea
Smash Master
vs. fox i really just try to hit them at all, and go from there. if i can go for rest combos i do, but with really good foxes i tend more toward techchasing and edgeguarding cause it seems to work better. so uh...i suppose i don't push foxes toward the edge on purpose, but rather try to hit them with anything i can, and know that eventually they have to either die or end up at an edge. stages are only so big anyway, you're never all that far from the sides.
it is kind of bad to rely too heavily on bairs with fox...but then it's bad to rely on anything too heavily. you really have to mix it up vs. fox, he's just a better character overall =P
what i find with foxes is that you kind of have to intercept their movement. they're too fast for you to be the real aggressor, so you have to find ways to get around their speed and sex kicks and stuff. fair and nair both stay out for a while and have pretty good range, so they're better for this purpose than the shorter-lasting bair.
but don't think in the middle of the match "oh, ****, better stop using bair" cause it's not like it's completely useless.
Binx
Smash Master
I think I have an idea of what to do now. I'm gonna start faking with empty hops into dj fairs or nairs, and sometimes land and grab, among other things, but I think that mix-up should help even it out a bit. He doesn't beat me all that bad right now but its the only match I don't really win many of at all.
I don't think my jiggs is tourney ready but its fun to practice in friendlies, and maybe for teams as well. Jiggs in teams is mainly a stock tank correct?
I don't think my jiggs is tourney ready but its fun to practice in friendlies, and maybe for teams as well. Jiggs in teams is mainly a stock tank correct?
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Jiggs in teams is grab rest
idea
Smash Master
mango, i'll probably see you at alucard's tourney in 2 weeks =D and whoever else is going.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
i'm pretty sure i'm going
so yay we can finally play
so yay we can finally play
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
What would you guys suggest as a good character against Fox? Other than Fox/Marth.
idea
Smash Master
i'm guessing he'd go fox or falcon.
falco, sheik. it's debatable how good the top tiers are against fox. i hear sometimes that falco has a slight advantage, and sheik has a slight disadvantage, but i don't think either is enough to outweigh personal preference. sheik is easier to play for sure. abuse priority, techchase, needles, edgeguard with bair.
it's not impossible with jiggs, though. skill with your main > base power of broken character. well, for everyone above low tier <_<
tickytoc
Smash Apprentice
doesnt falco usually **** fox??? eh whatever playing spaciess with puff is way fun :D
Binx
Smash Master
You can fight Fox with any of the top 4, gone are the days when anyone else counters him haha, I remember back when people though Mario and Fox were even XD
idea
Smash Master
and then someone must have realized "oh, you just hold this stick here away from him when he hits you, and press this other stick up when he's not hitting you"
Metatitan
Smash Master
mango are u gonna use puff against m2k at genesis?
hmmm short answer. no.
Metà
Smash Master
No, he's gonna go Falcon and JV 3-stock him.
you think i'm kidding? mango's got this, it doesn't matter what character he uses ^ ^
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
definitely doesnt **** him,
but a good source told me it was more like 55-45 i think, or he just said its bad for fox, idk
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yes, but Fox ***** him back almost equally hard so it's pretty close as a matchup.
I would say that match-up is like the very definition of even.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
idea
Smash Master
alright, after consulting sdm's frame data (thanks meta), i can confirm that this works:
roll on top of marth as he fsmashes, and you can rest him in the lag of it.
jigglypuff's roll: 34 frames, can move again at frame 35, rest gives + 1 frame = 36 frames
marth's fsmash: 49 frames, IASA frame 48
so you actually have 12 frames of leniency here. it's incredibly situational, of course, since you can't very well keep rolling on top of a good marth, but it's really fun to hit them with.
roll on top of marth as he fsmashes, and you can rest him in the lag of it.
jigglypuff's roll: 34 frames, can move again at frame 35, rest gives + 1 frame = 36 frames
marth's fsmash: 49 frames, IASA frame 48
so you actually have 12 frames of leniency here. it's incredibly situational, of course, since you can't very well keep rolling on top of a good marth, but it's really fun to hit them with.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
mew2king 2 stocked low percent beat darkain's falcon.
if mango went falcon he'd be an idiot.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
IM GOING TO NY!!
yay
yay
hungrybox
Smash Legend
strong bad - you're worse than you are strong (OHHH)
Mang0 - no u
Mang0 - no u
- Status