Street Fighter 4!!! DISCUSS

[Life After Death]

lol my aprentices are usually the best player ull ever play. nah i already got a sensei in sf4. sensei dreadz will teach me the ways. lol i dont think marty has enough info in melee to judge wats he' judging. but w/e everyone has opinions. i much rather be educated on the subject b4 putting in my opinion i like to stay neutral and not sound like an idiot like most people on the boards do

 

[GA Peach]

lol my aprentices are usually the best player ull ever play. nah i already got a sensei in sf4. sensei dreadz will teach me the ways. lol i dont think marty has enough info in melee to judge wats he' judging. but w/e everyone has opinions. i much rather be educated on the subject b4 putting in my opinion i like to stay neutral and not sound like an idiot like most people on the boards do

...there are 10-0s in smash, dood. brawl more than melee, but they exist in both. one in melee is roy/ICs. roy has no real way of dealing with anything they do. a brawl example would be pikachu/fox. all i'm saying is there are NO matchups as ridiculous as those in an SF.

 

[NES n00b]

...there are 10-0s in smash, dood. brawl more than melee, but they exist in both. one in melee is roy/ICs. roy has no real way of dealing with anything they do. a brawl example would be pikachu/fox. all i'm saying is there are NO matchups as ridiculous as those in an SF.

T Hawk vs E Honda in ST? Oricho torpedo X how many times it takes to win.

Spoiler

This is largely sarcastic don't hurt me

 

[Stripesorbars3]

anyone who thinks melee isnt as good as any sf game or gg game hasnt played melee competitively, or they're just sour over not being able to beat people in a kids game.

 

[Dreadz18x]

Don't hate on my Rog!
You know, after getting my *** beat by you a few weeks ago I actually looked for Vega players so I can learn the matchup and face you again. I was able to beat all of them though, you've got the best vega I've played by far. And plus, we'll get plenty of more games in later anyway.

CHOPS: You train me in melee I train you in SF4 deal?

i must be goin thru a faze cuz now even half decent boxers are beatin me.

wtf is goin on

 

[Vijin]

I read it's a tough match for vega, and someone knowing the match-up might be all it takes to make that match a living hell. I hate fighting Rog.

 

[Dreadz18x]

I read it's a tough match for vega, and someone knowing the match-up might be all it takes to make that match a living hell. I hate fighting Rog.

tru. ima need to upgrade my knowledge of the matchup

fightin boxer is like givin ur grandma a ride to the store.

u hate doin it, but u gotta do it

 

[Vijin]

I feel the same way about fighting gief.
What a pain in the *** match.

 

[AfroQT]

...there are 10-0s in smash, dood. brawl more than melee, but they exist in both. one in melee is roy/ICs. roy has no real way of dealing with anything they do. a brawl example would be pikachu/fox. all i'm saying is there are NO matchups as ridiculous as those in an SF.

i don think that means melee is worse in anything other then balance....
For me melee is SIGNIFICANTLY more fun to play then SF4. Its the reason im not playing SF4 right now....Why play SF4 when i could play melee..

 

[GA Peach]

i don think that means melee is worse in anything other then balance....

...

well, anyway, i'm gonna stop here, i think. i don't think i lost this one or anything, but i think trying to argue against Smash being the most glorious game ever on SWF is kind of pissing into the wind at this point. maybe i can get some Smash/SF4 casuals with you guys when i go to Gigabits with Yayuhzz and company.

 

[Stripesorbars3]

doesnt n e one play hd remix?

game is soo much better than 4

 

[Vijin]

Remix is pretty **** awesome. I'm more accustomed to regular ST though.
But yeah, Melee and SF4 are just two totally different types of games. Really just comes down to a matter of opinion.

 

[Dreadz18x]

i don think that means melee is worse in anything other then balance....
For me melee is SIGNIFICANTLY more fun to play then SF4. Its the reason im not playing SF4 right now....Why play SF4 when i could play melee..

y play melee when u can play SF 4?

 

[AfroQT]

...

well, anyway, i'm gonna stop here, i think. i don't think i lost this one or anything, but i think trying to argue against Smash being the most glorious game ever on SWF is kind of pissing into the wind at this point. maybe i can get some Smash/SF4 casuals with you guys when i go to Gigabits with Yayuhzz and company.

No one is saying its the most glorious game ever.
Its YOU saying its NOT a good game, which isnt true....

What doodah said is true..

y play melee when u can play SF 4?

If there was a character in SF4 as technical as falco (or as fun) i'd play SF4. But to my knowledge there isnt. Its the same reason i quit playing GG to...no character is like snake or falco. I just like moving my hands to hit buttons alot.

 

[GA Peach]

No one is saying its the most glorious game ever.
Its YOU saying its NOT a good game, which isnt true....

What doodah said is true..


If there was a character in SF4 as technical as falco (or as fun) i'd play SF4. But to my knowledge there isnt. Its the same reason i quit playing GG to...no character is like snake or falco. I just like moving my hands to hit buttons alot.

@The first comment - a good number of things have to be taken out of Smash in order to make it tournament viable. Brawl a lot more so than Melee. even with everything taken out of Brawl so far, it STILL is not anywhere NEAR being a practical game for competition. where as with SF4, it comes ready for competition, no questions asked. i like smash, and i still play casually, but i just don't see the blind devotion to it. you can like something and still view things objectively, you know...

@The second comment - LOL @ GGXX not having characters where you have to hit a lot of buttons and be really technical with...

on a side note, have you looked into Beatmania IIDX? may be up your alley if you like fast button action.

 

[Vijin]

C. Viper is probably 10 times more technical to play then Falco.

 

[GA Peach]

C. Viper is probably 10 times more technical to play then Falco.

viper is really tough to play, i agree. she has to be on POINT or she loses.

also, i think Hawks go Caw nailed something good that i forgot to mention. Smash is tested with items and more than 2 people playing. it is not as well suited to accommodate 1v1 play because of the intent of the game designer. makes sense if you think about it.

 

[Dogysamich]

doesnt n e one play hd remix?

game is soo much better than 4

Marty what is your opinion on this?

Sirlin Remix > SF4.

Where you at?!

__
Speaking of which marty, I had to stare at your **** sig for a sec to figure out what it is. I was thinking a fat R.Mika. But hey, Cammy ***. XD

 

[GA Peach]

Marty what is your opinion on this?

Sirlin Remix > SF4.

Where you at?!

__
Speaking of which marty, I had to stare at your **** sig for a sec to figure out what it is. I was thinking a fat R.Mika. But hey, Cammy ***. XD

Sirlin Remix sucks ****. that game is an abomination upon the name Street Fighter. SOOOOOO many glitches and bugs it's ridiculous.

and yeah, i like the way that artist draws stuff. i have quite a few pictures by him. i'm not a big Cammy person, but her *** looks ok, i guess...

 

[Dreadz18x]

No one is saying its the most glorious game ever.
Its YOU saying its NOT a good game, which isnt true....

What doodah said is true..


If there was a character in SF4 as technical as falco (or as fun) i'd play SF4. But to my knowledge there isnt. Its the same reason i quit playing GG to...no character is like snake or falco. I just like moving my hands to hit buttons alot.

i disagree. i enjoy SF 4 alot mroe than HD Remix. and i enjoyed HD remix more than smash in general.

smash has poisoned your mind.. getting into melee this late is like me getting into super turbo or KOF '94.. its jus too late.

 

[Stripesorbars3]

blind devotion?

you made a name on smashboards and have traveled a crap load of miles for tournies for smash.

seriouisly, brawl has made everyone forget their roots.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

SF4 is like drag racing. Smash is like drag racing with go-karts.

Some people think you need to drive cars that were meant for drag racing in order to have fun. Some people think you need to mod your go-kart and do wheelies and **** to have fun. Some people just like racing with go-karts. But either way, it's as fun and competitive as you make it.

I for one like SF4 and Melee and Brawl. I like playing Smash with items on and on ****ty stages too (except New Pork City . . . eff that place).

---

To get the topic back on to Street Fighter 4, Rose is too **** hard to win with. No wake up options. No way to link into the ultra. Not good at being aggressive. Not great at fireball spamming. I have to spend like 80% of the match blocking. Just not fun with her anymore. So I picked up Balrog and the guy's pretty beastly, though he lacks reliable wake ups too. He's really weird to me. He's a charging character which naturally makes me want to play defensively, but he seems so much better at being the aggressive, rushdown kind of fighter.

 

[Leh]

@The first comment - a good number of things have to be taken out of Smash in order to make it tournament viable. Brawl a lot more so than Melee. even with everything taken out of Brawl so far, it STILL is not anywhere NEAR being a practical game for competition. where as with SF4, it comes ready for competition, no questions asked. i like smash, and i still play casually, but i just don't see the blind devotion to it. you can like something and still view things objectively, you know...

@The second comment - LOL @ GGXX not having characters where you have to hit a lot of buttons and be really technical with...

on a side note, have you looked into Beatmania IIDX? may be up your alley if you like fast button action.

First Comment: Who cares if a good number of things are taken out? All that matters is melee is balanced NOW (good enough for competitively play). The only difference is that SF4 was instantly ready for competitively play and Melee wasnt. All that really means is that SF4.....gets played instantly? If you can make melee competitive (which we can and DID) then why not play it if you find it more fun? Its decently balanced (alot of chars can win)....theres a large skill gap...blah blah.... It doesnt matter if it was TESTED for play with more then 2 people...All that matters is that it IS INDEED A DECENT GAME to play competitively 1 on 1 (and 2 on 2). You are literally hating on smash for no reason, you're bringing up facts that simply dont matter. Who cares if it wasnt supposed to be played competitively. We still play it competitively, AND its pretty decently balanced WITH a large skill gap WHILE BEING a ****load fun.

GG does have characters where you have to be technical, but to me none of them are as fast as falco.... Same goes for C Viper.

And i already play popnMusic and PIU.

Afro Thundah 2nd Account-----

 

[mnitg]

here is a nasty SFIV tourney is you want to attend...


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227311

 

[Life After Death]

lol yea marty has no point at all his logic makes no sense. im just waitin on him to make an actual intelligent point. so far as it stands melee is considered a good as *** competitive game decently balanced. brawl is just gay. the only good point brawl has it ur main is prolly the only fun thing in brawl. and plz dont make inui points or ill prolly lose all respect of u cuz as of now i consider u a smart player. at least im hoping ur not an inui.

no jamel its not too late for CERTAIN people to be good at melee. but its prolly tooo late for u cuz of the situations ur in. in life everything is situational. melee is not even dying yet. sf4 is prolly way more fun than brawl but i doubt ill like better than melee.

 

[XIF]

I really don't see why people think Marty's not making any sense.

I think you guys just aren't understanding his point.

Simply, Melee does not have the same balance and game design other fighting games have to make it as good a game to play competitively. I don't think that's an absurd point to make, considering most other popular fighters have character balance to the point where maybe only a couple of characters are not tournament viable. In GG, pretty much any character can win a tournament. This has been shown multiple times in competitive settings as well. The east vs west japan 23 v 23 crew battle at SBO had a bridget player take out around 10 players. In the US during the Slash days, Order Sol took I believe Evo World one year. Order Sol was one of the worst characters in that game and still won.

Evo 2007 had 2 or 3 Blanka players in top 8 for super turbo, and Blanka was definitely one of the worst characters in that game as well.

In Melee, this simply did not happen. In the US, the lowest tiered character to ever place well in tournament was Donkey Kong, and considering the tier list now, thats about the middle of the cast as far as potential is concerned. The other problem is that Smash has quite a number of simply unwinnable matchups. I don't think Pichu or Roy can even get close to beating a good IC's, and I don't think IC's really stand a viable chance to Peach. Almost the entirety of the low and bottom tier characters absolutely tank it to Sheik and Falco alone. Bowser is not going to beat Sheik, MewTwo is not going to beat CF or sheik, etc. The only other game played seriously which is like this is Marvel vs Capcom 2. But the MvC2 community even admits to what a terribly imbalanced game Marvel is.

As for the idea that Melee is the only game with that type of fast paced action, I would say that there are a number of characters in Marvel which require more tech skill and control than Falco. ROM'ing with Magneto alone is an amazing feat. I would say Marvel in general has a faster gameplay than Smash. After that, I don't think every other game is that much slower than Melee. In GG, i'm sorry but playing Chipp is extremely demanding, and then there's Eddie, where setting up his unblockable strings is certainly a feat as well. I don't think SFIV really reaches that kind of demand upon the player, but certain characters certainly do demand alot of precision with a fair amount of speed. Rufus is a very aggressive in your face character that requires speed, and the entire play style of C. Viper is be on point or you're screwed.

I will agree that Melee is probably the fastest paced game out there aside from Marvel, but it's not like every other game is at a turtles pace. It's largely character dependent. But the same can be said for smash. You really cannot do much with jigglypuff to stay super fast aggressive. Neither can Bowser or other characters.

The entire point is that play whatever game you want, but at least view it objectively. I still enjoy Melee just as much if not more than any other fighting game. I enjoy SFIV as well, but I still play Melee far more so than any other fighting game out there, and it's certainly my best game. Each game has their own shortcomings, but I don't think it's ridiculous to presume SFIV has better character balance and perhaps better balance in their game mechanics. There are things I do not like about SFIV as well. For instance, I think Sagat really waters the game down, because at Final Round I cannot even count the amount of times I saw character vs Sagat matches boil down to the person trying to get in on sagat, only to be thrown and have the entire thing reset because his throw sends them an entire screen away.

On the same note, I dislike how Fox can cover alot of his mistakes simply by shining. A 1 frame ultimate priority move like that is a little unfair, and I think it detracts from the game when a character can make a mistake and doesn't need to be punished.

No one says stop playing either game, it's a simple matter of recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of either game.

 

[Stripesorbars3]

funny because melee has just as many PLAYABLE charcters as other fighters.

we have jigglypuff winning every big tourney.

its all a matter of opinion.

but to say melee isnt balenced when compared to a game that was released less than a year ago is just ********.

 

[complexity1234]

its pretty obvious jiggs is a top tier character

It really should be fox,falco, marth, shiek, jiggs

 

[Stripesorbars3]

youre dumb

just sayin

 

[Hawks go Caw]

funny because melee has just as many PLAYABLE charcters as other fighters.

we have jigglypuff winning every big tourney.

its all a matter of opinion.

but to say melee isnt balenced when compared to a game that was released less than a year ago is just ********.

Street Fighter 4 has been out for almost a year in Japan and over half a year here. However, the Street Fighter franchise has been around since like what, 91 (not including the original Street Fighter)? And there's been a ton of fighting games released by Capcom throughout their entire history. I think they'd know how to make a balanced game.

Saying you can't compare games' balance because of release date is ********.

---

Afro, the tech skill is relative to each player and game, but I think you know that since you've been saying it all along. You view tech skill as speed, others might view it as precision. Even if there's nothing in SF like Falco's pillar or whatever (I don't know much about technical Falco in Melee so disregard the ****ty example), there's nothing in Smash similar to Balrog's basic headbutt > Ultra combo. Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJSPrSY8D0

Just watch the end of it. I personally don't think anything in Smash could ever make me say, "HOLY ****" like that match.
Edit: It's actually the end of the second round of the first set . . . so at around 2:15.


---

I really wish we could keep this discussion Street Fighter related.

 

[Dreadz18x]

we should have a smashboards SF IV tourney.

 

[NES n00b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJSPrSY8D0

Common....pressing foward in a precise manner (6 frames) is great and all especially the moment, but it (that vid) so overused for third strike. Plus, too many people are putting technical skill on some sorta pedestal anyways. It can be fun and all, but at the end of day most people can learn most of the **** in most fighting games with enough time.

Anyway if you can't find a good comeback vid for Melee, well too bad for you I guess. =p

 

[MarsFool!]

Hawks Im going to put this simply. Its not the same. Apples and oranges. It would be comparable if smash had a six button layout like street fighter but it doesnt. Parrying is not technical. A ROM is technical. But my point being melee has fast button movement on a pad. Who knows maybe the pad is the fastest way to play the game I dont know. But I do know that sticks are faster than pads any day of the week. Plus you have to consider the cancels and spacing and other sorts of things.

 

[GA Peach]

@Afro - ...it DOES matter how the game was tested because that is what the developers take into account when they decide what stays in a game, what goes out, what modifications need to be made, etc. that's part of the reason some of the characters are horribly mediocre or awful in competitive smash. the characters were tested and balanced with item use in mind, like Mewtwo. Mewtwo fights very well when equipped with items, but is hard pressed to defend himself in competitive play. the fact that the game has to be put under a highly significant change (i.e. stages, items removed, glitches allowed/banned) speaks volumes. not to mention that the stage on which you play actually affects the outcome of the fight. some stage/character combinations turn into virtually guaranteed victories.

also, and maybe this isn't just with Smash players, but what is it with equating speed to how good a fighting game is? VF5 is a great fighting game, and it is slower paced. just because a game is fast does not make it a great game. plus, i don't really have a whole lot of hate for smash, but i can actually take a step back and look at things objectively.

@Doodah - being competitive in a game is not being blindly devoted. blind devotion would be what you are doing, which would be confronting me simply because i said something bad, albeit true, about Smash, the game which you hold so dear. your defense for what i've been talking about is that Jigglypuff has won tournaments recently. Jigglypuff is in the high echelon of characters that is equipped with what is essentially a 1-hit kill that it can combo into. that is a ridiculously powerful tool, regardless of ease/difficulty of use.

@Chops - some of the things i was going to use to further explain my point to you has been posted by XIF. i'll just leave it to his post, and hopefully you will choose to view the information this time instead of just choosing to ignore it simply because you think melee is more fun. on a side note, i have never read anything inui has posted, or really even talked to him, so i don't think i can knowingly make an "inui point". i don't even know what one is, haha.

XIF - thanks for trying, man, but no one on here, outside of a select few, are gonna even try to understand. just let it be. on these SWF grounds, Smash can do no wrong, and it is Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

for the record, i'm not trying to say that Smash is not competitive, as it is due to a large following. i'm trying to say that it is not well-suited for competition due to the reasons i have expressed previously. i had wanted to end this because in the eyes of you all(and this my fault i suppose, for bringing this discussion onto a Smash forum) Smash really can do no wrong. as much as i love other games, i can easily admit when things are good and when things are bad about them just by thinking about them objectively. and now, back on topic...


@Hawks - yeah, Rose is tough to win with, but she has some tools. if facing projectile throwers, she can get meter faster than anyone in the game. plus, she has pretty good pokes. S.RH beats low moves, and S.FP has a good amount of range. she gets a very slight frame advantage off of 3.FK when she hits. C.MP is a good poke that is fast and has decent priority. It also can be canceled into QCF + K. Then, that can be SC'd into Aura Soul Spark. Her biggest weaknesses, and they are huge, are lack of a good anti-air, and lack of a good B&B. Rose's damage output is a joke in most situations, and her best AA option is C.FP, which AT BEST trades with aerials, but normally gets stuffed. It's a shame, because i think she is one of the coolest character designs in SF.

 

[NES n00b]

XIF - thanks for trying, man, but no one on here, outside of a select few, are gonna even try to understand. just let it be. on these SWF grounds, Smash can do no wrong, and it is Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

Gaming forums. This is what happens.

 

[GA Peach]

Too true, Nes n00b, too true...

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Hawks Im going to put this simply. Its not the same. Apples and oranges. It would be comparable if smash had a six button layout like street fighter but it doesnt. Parrying is not technical. A ROM is technical. But my point being melee has fast button movement on a pad. Who knows maybe the pad is the fastest way to play the game I dont know. But I do know that sticks are faster than pads any day of the week. Plus you have to consider the cancels and spacing and other sorts of things.

That was my point actually; what tech skill is differs depending on the game and the player. So is it really fair to say SF4 has less tech skill than Melee? I don't think so, but it's all opinion so ultimately it doesn't matter.

---

I played Alpha like twice when I was 8 and I really liked Rose and Sodom for some reason. I thought they were cool, but I don't like her voice in this game though. It's too . . . deep.

And I just got through playing like an hour and a half of SF4 and I went with all Balrog. The game is so strict on timing and I never really get to practice the moves without somebody getting in my face, so I basically can't do any of his combos yet.

Vijn! You gotta help me out with it!

 

[Mike G]

Gaming forums. This is what happens.

This is so much truth. I keep telling this to Marty. Dude won't listen...but what he's saying has truth


but yeah, It seems the point Marty is trying to make here is one that I can understand. It all goes back to how the games were created. I'm not going to explain the details since it's been covered already. But whatever. I've seen many threads like these in all the time in my smash life and it seems most smashers will blindly defend the game they love to the grave.

 

[h1roshi]

to me, its all about the movement of smash. the freeform movement cannot be beat by any other fighting game. end of discussion. the way we utilize the stages for movement, platform for wavelanding and stuff, and using the edge for mindgames. Its just too good. the movement is too good.

-hiro

 

[Life After Death]

heh lol arguing wont do much. all i know is exp makes u wiser at judging.... but i see alot of i hate the game for no reasonor w/e bad exp i ahd playing the game or i got owned let me cry about it. let me attempt to find facts and useless statistics(never rely on statistic ever) to make me feel better that the game i play is superior.

never judge a game if u never got goood at it in the first place. when i mean good i mean top player good. thats why i stay neutral in all fighting games cuz its stupid to judge off little exp i rather be god at the game b4 judging it. im done here.

no offense but i personally would never take xif's advice its just somethign personal only i know cuz i knew him personally but its my own opinion it dont mean everyone shouldnt listen to his points it just mean i personally dont listen to his points lol. think of it as me not wanting to take inui's or hbox advice/points. its the same reason.