Standards of the Melee community - Urge to become better

[KirbyKaze]

"Playing whack as ****" and similar expressions in high profile matches is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[commonyoshi]

The difference between videos with hype commentary and videos that spit out newbie technical advice is that hype videos are timeless.

I can watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ImnibVeSg
all day.

Any of the old MLG videos are annoying as hell to sit through because of how dumb down they make melee.

Both are accessible to noobs, but only hyped matches are enjoyable for players who have played more than two months.

 

[Wake]

"Playing whack as ****" and similar expressions in high profile matches is a pet peeve of mine.

Same here.

 

[Pi]

i'd actually be quite interested in commentating matches
but i do not want to be heard by the players at all
i hate that **** and i would be uncomfortable talking about the match while the players could hear me

 

[Cia]

Whenever is there's down time on the stream, you can get the audience involved in something. I've seen ppl do Q+A player interviews, Trivia Questions, put Money Matches on Stream, or even let ppl request matches (assuming there's enough downtime.)

But ya.. nothin kills a stream faster than kawaiiboy14 vs iPWNdeeznewbs22 doin samus vs kirby.

 

[Strife]

The difference between videos with hype commentary and videos that spit out newbie technical advice is that hype videos are timeless.

I can watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ImnibVeSg
all day.

Any of the old MLG videos are annoying as hell to sit through because of how dumb down they make melee.

Both are accessible to noobs, but only hyped matches are enjoyable for players who have played more than two months.

I sure as hell couldn't watch that all day, that kinda commentary isn't so appealing to as much of the smash community as you seem to think.

Furthermore there is absolutely no reason why we can't have the commentary be both hype and informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDH0Ylp7bc

Like someone said before, when commentators try to hype up every little thing that happens in matches, then it seem less impressive when something crazy does happen. Did any see the seasons beatings stream 2 weeks ago(I can only speak for Street Fighter AE) the commentary was so engaging that it made for a much more worthwhile experience. We will have a much easier time making our community grow with rounded commentary imo.

 

[EthereaL]

I feel as if Wife does a snazzy job. Yes, pure hype can be good. However, it's nice to have Wife commentate on the matchups in the down-time between them, as opposed to "oh God that was f(luff)ing sick!" over and over, then "uh oh!" every time a hit is landed.

Plus, some matches simply aren't as interesting. Some matches don't have those sick combos, and are just grind-outs and/or gimps. In those, commentators shouldn't take a "oh this is so gay/********/slow/whack/lame" stance. Instead, comment on the zoning/spacing involved. If you think they need to approach, talk about that.

Stick to your personality, but it always annoys me when I hear "we're just watching the match, I don't know what to say." Doing nothing but hyping the match-ups is good to an extent, but if you're going to commentate it should provide at least some insight into the match-ups.

Now, this doesn't mean it should be like '07 commentary. "If he hits him with the tipper...oh, look at those L-cancels!" However, providing unique/personal insight into match-ups while still remaining "hyped" would be invaluable in terms of improving commentary.

Regarding new players...I remember my first tournament. One player, out of a room of 50+, bothered to ask me for friendlies. That was m2k (for the record, he stomped on me 4-1). It definitely improved my experience a hundred fold, and got me focused on improving my game even more.

Oh, and also, more commentary should be done. Practice makes perfect, tell your commentators (politely) what they could do better instead of taking the commentary away.

*shrug* that's kind of rambling, but it covers it pretty well.

 

[Max?]

hey max, life lesson

people who actually dont care what other people think of them dont try their best to remind everybody of that fact as often as possible

the more you post that you dont care what people you insult think of you, the more you seem like you do care what everyone else on the forum thinks of you

just a tip, the way you act now just seems a little fake

oh hold on, its just like that show where the dwarf acted like he was cool and confident and didnt give a ****, but really is just a lonely shell of a man; you'd probably identify with that character and base your whole account off of him if you saw the show

lol the call out. Really good post lol.

I do relate to Tyrion a lot, but if you read the books you'll learn that he is the ****ing man and a straight up gangsta who plays the Game of Thrones the best.

 

[Niko45]

**** just got real fake

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Tyrion is indeed the ****ing man.

 

[Anth0ny]

"Playing whack as ****" and similar expressions in high profile matches is a pet peeve of mine.

wait, you're telling me you didn't think the commentary for Hbox vs. Armada was the greatest of all time?



I'm happy to hear 8wayrun is streaming Apex. Legit stuff Alex Strife.

 

[commonyoshi]

I sure as hell couldn't watch that all day, that kinda commentary isn't so appealing to as much of the smash community as you seem to think.

Furthermore there is absolutely no reason why we can't have the commentary be both hype and informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDH0Ylp7bc

Like someone said before, when commentators try to hype up every little thing that happens in matches, then it seem less impressive when something crazy does happen. Did any see the seasons beatings stream 2 weeks ago(I can only speak for Street Fighter AE) the commentary was so engaging that it made for a much more worthwhile experience. We will have a much easier time making our community grow with rounded commentary imo.

I definitely acknowledge that liking different styles of commentary is subjective. I really dont want our commentaries devolving into so called informative commentary that yells what's going on in the video like it did in that vid though. "Techchase! Edgeguard! You dropped the combo." They did that in the MLG days, and I learned nothing from them. I actually like technical commentary, but actually decent stuff.

 

[Oracle]

Most of your points are pretty valid, especially with commentary. From watching a lot of street fighter streams recently, I've been able to see how good their commentary is. People like James Chen have a fairly good mix of hype, humor, and actual informative commentary. That last part is the most important, separating 'commentary' from 'some idiot yelling on the mic.'

The problem with a lot of recent commentary is mediocre players watch waffles' videos and try to imitate the hype while forgetting that waffles is actually a very good player with a lot of knowledge of the game, allowing him to make informative and entertaining analyzations of the match.

Spoiler

then you have people who are straight up not funny

@kirbykaze i totally agree. Commentary like on armada vs. hungrybox was incredibly disrespectful of both players, in addition to making the community look like a bunch of whiny scrubs

 

[Veetaak]

Sponsors care about the number of views & the mode of advertising. They don't care what we do or say on the side.

Just look at Yipes. He has 2 sponsors, a clothing line, and a legion of followers. Deadpool even quotes him in the game. Every time he steps up to the mic, twitter blows up and the viewercount goes up.

Yet he isn't kosher and he doesn't dumb it down. Hes as raw as it gets, and people love it.

Fair points but the sponsors would not want a bad reputation and so they wouldn't want to sponsor something that could cause that. The interest in the game is ofc a factor, they are running a business after all.

 

[Qzzy]

Just going to reiterate some of what's been said.

Nothing wrong with hype. But not all matches are going to be crazy exciting. Most aren't. Even finals and semi finals are not always going to be exciting. Doesn't mean those matches aren't entertaining and interesting. Also, trying to hype everything is counterproductive and takes away from the moments that really are awesome.

I don't understand why commentators can't be both informative and able to hype. They're not contradictory.

About Armada vs HungryBox Genesis 2, HungryBox in general, Shroomed, other players, and particular characters/tactics/stages:

There's no reason to be so disrespectful. None at all. At least not in the commentary. I tolerate it at locals, I get it, whatever, not a huge deal, but at nationals and internationals, that's ridiculous. Negative bias like that probably doesn't deter our community from watching, and I have no idea how new viewers and players feel about it, though I can imagine.

Look, trash talk can be completely fine, whether a little or a whole lot, but there should still be respect. Not "some respect," ("he plays gay as ****, but I guess I gotta give him his props.") but respect.

As for people who are merely bad at commentary, not a huge deal. I suck at it, you suck at it, thanks for trying and hope you enjoyed the opportunity. I find it pretty easy to ignore, but it would be nice if as a community we got better at it.


To Peef:
I really enjoyed your stream of the Big House, and would have liked to have watched it to completion had I been able.
I do think it could have been a little better though. Player cam and commentator cam were neat, but felt they kind of took up space when tourney matches were going on. For friendlies I think it's fine though. Also, i wish players vs player names were more quickly displayed, and if matches were tournament or friendlies was visually displayed. I don't know if that is always possible or practical and understand that circumstances can vary.

Otherwise, totally appreciate what you've done so far. Thanks.

 

[PEEF!]

Streaming in glorious 480p right now from my new computer

www.twitch.tv/peefsmash

Standards raised??

 

[ShroudedOne]

That does look pretty nice, Peef.

 

[KirbyKaze]

wait, you're telling me you didn't think the commentary for Hbox vs. Armada was the greatest of all time?

In a word, "no".

 

[Alex Strife]

Teaming with Level UP to bring you guys an even greater Apex! Be sure to check the main post for new details, and check out WNF's season finale TONIGHT @ www.twitch.tv/leveluplive

check this out guys and see how far we have come.

 

[Dimitris]

Since this thread is not only about video:

TOs
...
Finally when you post results try to make an effort to post all the characters used. It helps in the long run.

This is not too much asked, and improves a results list a lot.

And what I want to add, but probably is a bit more effort to organise: get results from MM also in the results thread.
Cause I always hear people agreeing to a zillion MMs before a tourney, but rarely hear anything of it afterwards. The results of those MMs are still a real good reference to estimate smashers' level.
Just a thought.

 

[Alex Strife]

And what I want to add, but probably is a bit more effort to organise: get results from MM also in the results thread.
Cause I always hear people agreeing to a zillion MMs before a tourney, but rarely hear anything of it afterwards. The results of those MMs are still a real good reference to estimate smashers' level.
Just a thought.

reason you dont hear about them is because well...they never happen for the most part...people either forget or become broke and avoid the other person...at least from my exp

 

[Alex Strife]

I did want to mention something in regards to our streams. Many times we think we can do everything ourselves...this is not true. Expand into other fighting game communities, make connections, and then use those connections to grow.

I find it insane that Apex and Concentrate are the only events that have FGC streams working with us. With our abilities we can do a lot more than that.

Also promote on podcasts ( not our own thats pointless ) and help others as well as ourselves. The more we stay in our own circle the worst off we are.


Also if we want sponsors and such...STOP PROMOTING HACKED GAMES AND STUFF LIKE PROJECT M...we get that its fun but they are hacked and that makes us look bad. Project M, no matter how "good " it is...will never have as many people play it as Melee or Brawl...accept this and work on growing things the right way. That is why all hacked stuff is being soft banned at Apex and all other EC events...we cannot GROW in anyway from all that.

 

[Strong Badam]

unsubscribing

 

[Alex Strife]

LOL <3

I meant in the public eye btw like when we have major events with sponsors...locals no one cares hack it up

 

[Strong Badam]

i will hack you up u ****ing poser never helping u ever again
alex strife the terrible tyrant

 

[Alex Strife]

LOL

this kid


I am not terrible I am terrific

 

[Strong Badam]

the terrific tyrant sounds only marginally less bad

 

[Alex Strife]

AH


seriously though hack games and hack music and such is great but we cant stream that stuff

 

[Strong Badam]

MLG wouldn't even stream vBrawl, who gives a ****?

 

[Alex Strife]

well...

Its cause they were charging people for their stream. If it was free ( like ours is ) anything can be streamed.

 

[Strong Badam]

i stream what i want ALEX

 

[Alex Strife]

you do homie

 

[EthereaL]

the terrific tyrant sounds only marginally less bad

Haha.

 

[PEEF!]

I did want to mention something in regards to our streams. Many times we think we can do everything ourselves...this is not true. Expand into other fighting game communities, make connections, and then use those connections to grow.

I find it insane that Apex and Concentrate are the only events that have FGC streams working with us. With our abilities we can do a lot more than that.

Also promote on podcasts ( not our own thats pointless ) and help others as well as ourselves. The more we stay in our own circle the worst off we are.


Also if we want sponsors and such...STOP PROMOTING HACKED GAMES AND STUFF LIKE PROJECT M...we get that its fun but they are hacked and that makes us look bad. Project M, no matter how "good " it is...will never have as many people play it as Melee or Brawl...accept this and work on growing things the right way. That is why all hacked stuff is being soft banned at Apex and all other EC events...we cannot GROW in anyway from all that.

Stop trying so damn hard Alex. Seriously your constant attempts to undermine everything im doing is hilarious and futile.

Not to mention your goal of getting Nintendo to listen to us and make some great game is just as silly. Did you realize that the new vanilla Wiis coing out dont even have gamecube controller support, even though 95%+ of the smash community uses gamecube controllers? They give literally 0 ****s and if they cared even a scrap they would leave that support in.

I truly hope nobody listens to you and your garbage, jealous attempts at leadership.

Sorry but you were absolutely begging for it.

 

[Strife]

^ Alex Strife is just looking out for the community's best interest. You're kinda being an *** Peef.

 

[Massive]

Also if we want sponsors and such...STOP PROMOTING HACKED GAMES AND STUFF LIKE PROJECT M...we get that its fun but they are hacked and that makes us look bad. Project M, no matter how "good " it is...will never have as many people play it as Melee or Brawl...accept this and work on growing things the right way. That is why all hacked stuff is being soft banned at Apex and all other EC events...we cannot GROW in anyway from all that.

I lol'd pretty hard.
Brawl's community is shrinking, melee's community is stagnant. There really isn't any growth to speak of. If hacking the game increases its lifespan, why the hell not do it?

Melee hacks aren't even content based, they're basically the same as the skinning communities in FPSs, and those things keep games alive far longer than even competitive stuff does. There are still active modding/skinning communities for games like Deus Ex/Quake/Doom that predate melee by many, many years.

There will never very likely be as much exposure for project M as there is for brawl or melee, mostly because it's not idiot friendly, but that doesn't mean that it can't get some notoriety- especially when it's so very much better than brawl is as far as fun and competitive quality go.

Sponsors don't really care if the game is a hacked version or whatever, they care about getting exposure and making money. If Project M drew MvC sized crowds, you had better believe it would be getting some serious sponsors despite being a heavily modified game.

 

[Bing]

I think the "Standards of Melee" or subject to who his/her own. Some people feel that the system should be more professional, some dont. Some say tomehto some say tomato, so to be honest this back and forth flaming is not needed its fine to discuss things you dont like, but I really dont feel that fingers need to be pointed.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I did want to mention something in regards to our streams. Many times we think we can do everything ourselves...this is not true. Expand into other fighting game communities, make connections, and then use those connections to grow.

I agree!

I find it insane that Apex and Concentrate are the only events that have FGC streams working with us. With our abilities we can do a lot more than that.

I agree!

Also promote on podcasts ( not our own thats pointless ) and help others as well as ourselves. The more we stay in our own circle the worst off we are.

This is 50% wrong! I agree with the notion that we should be more involved with other communities so we aren't seen as so isolated. I think that showing open-mindedness and a willingness to learn about other games is a perfectly fine gesture.

But I disagree completely with the idea that promoting our own podcasts is totally pointless. I personally think that some of our current ones like "State of the Game" are very good ideas because they give a lot of the community an opportunity to interact with its higher ups (in terms of skill, theory, and tournament organizers). This is a very good opportunity to teach new players, build hype for tournaments, get word out about upcoming ones, and to promote community involvement. Community survival is not just about expansion. Keeping our current residents (big or small) up-to-date and well-informed are strictly good things (not to mention "happy"!). Promoting interaction between our regional communities (that wouldn't otherwise interact with one another) only helps bridge the gaps between them and makes us more cohesive on the whole. These are only good things. We certainly look more presentable on the whole when everyone's well-informed and aware of what's going on in the rest of the world.

Why does promoting kinship have to only involve outreach? It's not like our various regions and sub-communities are totally cohesive. I think more harmony with one another would be great.

I would add that I think we need to be nicer to Brawl. I know we've improved a lot in this respect, but I our community still seems at odds with Brawl at times (mostly because we get one highly vocal person every now and then). I'm not saying we have to be friends or anything, but just showing respect for the game (or at least the players) would be a good gesture and make the smash community as a whole seem less divided. Again, I'm not sure how slightly more tolerance and unity can be bad for this community.

Also if we want sponsors and such...STOP PROMOTING HACKED GAMES AND STUFF LIKE PROJECT M...we get that its fun but they are hacked and that makes us look bad. Project M, no matter how "good " it is...will never have as many people play it as Melee or Brawl...accept this and work on growing things the right way. That is why all hacked stuff is being soft banned at Apex and all other EC events...we cannot GROW in anyway from all that.

I know a bunch of people that have transferred from the various BrawlX permutations and now play Melee so in my experience this is wrong.

I would add that a lot of research on Melee has been done as a result of Project M and we know a lot more about this game on a mechanical level than ever before. I'm not sure how significant this is, but I cannot imagine that exact values and mechanical information are bad things.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

as a relatively new player i can say that improving is helped by podcasts and livestreams when you get to hear top player' opinions on how to play and things like balancing school and smash. i think project m is very important to bring more content in general to the community. i dont know if brawl players enjoy project m but i will be more openminded towards including them in the community as i am pretty bad for flaming brawl

 

[Sinji]

I agree with Alex Strife. We shouldn't have Project M at Apex. It just makes us more of an enclosed community then we already are.