Stand Alone Characters

[Samuelson]

There are lots of characters that can win tourney's by themselves. People need to get over themselves and learn that MK isn't the only character that can win with no secondary.

There are lots of characters whose worst matchup is 40:60. Characters that are like this can win tourney's by themselves. ZSS is an overlooked "stand alone" character.

 

[M@v]

lol i sense bitterness in this post

No. It just bugs me that people think diddy is godly just because he has the best matchup vs MK. Anymore everything around these boards revolve around MK it seems. Its disgusting.
If the next tier list has diddy in top, I will probably stop taking tier lists seriously.....

 

[Staco]

I think a secondary can be good for everyone

 

[kr3wman]

I think a secondary can be good for everyone

No one is denying that.

Having a counter to counter their counter, and another counter to counter their possible other counter and doing all of that to mindgame them into thinking you're going to counterpick them and then stay with your character, not countering them but still getting into their heads and making them shiver in fear every time you pick a character.

 

[deepseadiva]

- A Minimum of Two 35:65's

I think you mean maximum here.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

All you need is to not have any "unwinnable" matchups in order to be usable without a secondary; you could lose every match 40:60 and not need a secondary (that character would also be bottom tier, but it wouldn't need a secondary).

Meta Knight and Snake are non-controversial. Mr. Game & Watch definitely works; there's nothing so bad that he's unable to overcome it. I don't think anyone really totally shuts down Marth, Falco, R.O.B., Olimar, or Diddy Kong either. I can't imagine Toon Link actually having an unwinnable matchup. The Pokemon Trainer should be able to be smart with switching to avoid having any unwinnable matchups (I know some characters like Mr. Game & Watch have the advantage on all three Pokemon, but I don't think anyone completely destroys more than one Pokemon). I'm not even sure that most of the cast needs secondaries; secondaries are helpful for everyone of course, but I just don't buy that most characters actually need them. I mean, obviously Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Fox need them pretty badly, and bottom tier guys like our buddy Captain Falcon might "need" one in the sense that actually fighting random top tiers with him is about the equivalent of being hard countered (though it's more a statement that he's not really viable at all so any plan that involves using him less is good for the player).

Honestly, while having the upper hand in any given matchup is always good and you won't always have the upper hand if you stick with one character, it's really a very plausible plan for the mains of most characters to just focus on playing better to overcome any bad matchups they have. If you happen to really be into someone like DK, sorry, but DK isn't typical. I think a lot of people decide certain matchups "need a secondary" as an easy way out so they can just give up and not bother improving; it's really unfortunate. As a Mr. Game & Watch main, I've run into talented players who use guys like Sonic and Jigglypuff who I am supposed to completely destroy, and indeed I can see I have a big advantage in those matchups. However, I have also lost games to those characters, and I've been really threatened in general by them. Contrary to popular belief, while my tools are effective against theirs, they still do have tools that they can use to cause me trouble. Those are definitely matchups that can be overcome, and if those can be overcome, I'm skeptical that very many matchups at all can't be.

 

[Brinzy]

I don't think anyone really totally shuts down Olimar

Olimar's gotta watch out for Peach and other characters that have fast jabs, but I guess it's not impossible.

 

[Kappie]

Lucario definately in the list, I only saw him once or twice. Every hard matchup is only one to overcome, rather than to switch chars. Marth can be beaten by spacing better and camping smartly, Olimar needs an agressive playstyle and gimping, Game and Watch needs spacing, and when fighting Dedede you need to avoid grabs and make use of Aura Sphere.

In ANY matchup, when Luc can avoid the kill moves, it is one that can be won.

 

[Jim Morrison]

PT. You already have 2 secondaries.

 

[Cirno]

I like that Diddy's getting a lot of love here but Oli says no to him being a stand alone for now.

 

[tocador]

In ANY matchup, when Luc can avoid the kill moves, it is one that can be won.

Fixing for you*

In ANY matchup, when anyone from the cast can avoid the kill moves, it is one that can be won

 

[Demenise]

I'm starting to think that Pokemon Trainer and ROB could be stand alones, though I'm not sure; Pokemon Trainer has some sort of an answer for most situations (although hard to come by with switching,) and ROB, if good at edgeguarding, doesn't have much to fear from many matchups. Zelda/Shiek may be one, I'm on the fence about that.

I agree with the others mention for the most part except for Diddy. Falco just seems like too much trouble to keep Diddy as a stand alone.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Here are mine, and why I think they are standalone:

Fosho

MK: No matchups worse than 50:50.

Snake: 1 or 2 bad matchups (D3 and MK I guess)



Marth: 45:55 vs. Snake, and 40:60 against MK.

Debatable:

Lucario: 40:60 vs. Marth, MK and GnW, 45:55 vs. Olimar, so that's debatable.

Diddy: Some bad matchups, but if played well he can beat any character

ZSS: same as Diddy.

Olimar: See above

Maybe some more.

 

[illinialex24]

Metaknight, Snake, and a perfect Olimar. Or a perfect IC. But they would have to be perfect.

 

[_Phloat_]

A perfect Captain Falcon.

Seriously, don't use perfect in this discussion.

 

[illinialex24]

A perfect Captain Falcon.

Seriously, don't use perfect in this discussion.

No, but perfect is there because theoretically, both of them are amazing for different reasons. IC has 1 grab to kill, and if he can get 3 grabs, he wins. Its not too hard to get a grab with two people if he's really good, so I say theoretically he should have no bad matchups, but only theoretically if the player is amazing.

Olimar is the perfect camper. No opponent should hit him if he's perfect. So a perfect camper Olimar would not lose period. Thats what I meant. Their perfect's are above others.

 

[SothE700k]

No, but perfect is there because theoretically, both of them are amazing for different reasons. IC has 1 grab to kill, and if he can get 3 grabs, he wins. Its not too hard to get a grab with two people if he's really good, so I say theoretically he should have no bad matchups, but only theoretically if the player is amazing.

Olimar is the perfect camper. No opponent should hit him if he's perfect. So a perfect camper Olimar would not lose period. Thats what I meant. Their perfect's are above others.

Guess that means anyone is perfect if they don't get hit!

*gasp!*

 

[illinialex24]

Guess that means anyone is perfect if they don't get hit!

*gasp!*

Omg...... Pretty much all of the roster doesn't have the ability to camp like an Olimar, or can't take 1 move and create a kill from it. This is just ridiculous. A falcon will get hit. So will a Jigglypuff. So will a Marth. So will a Ganondorf. So will any character without projectiles unless the opponent they are facing sucks. The difference, is that no one is perfect. But a great Olimar or IC should not have any bad matchups, especially in a game like this. Never allowing the opponent to approach will let you win. Same with 1 grab, 1 kill an being able to get a grab like any other hit.

 

[Nintendevil]

MK probably would be better off with someone for Snake and Diddy (and Yoshi for insurance). And Snake Needs someone for MK, D3, ROB, and Pika. Snake and MK are by far the best stand alone, but EVERYONE ELSE should have a secondary.

 

[Brinzy]

I'm not sure about the Ice Climbers. All it takes is a counterpick stage to make them very hard to win with.

 

[Napilopez]

Sonic can most definitely played as a standalone char. If people can do it and be successful, then I think that counts. Espy, 3000, often Blue and often Malcolm go solo Sonic, and are good at it at that. Also so long as you don't have one terribad counter matchup, which I don't think Sonic has(Sonics will disagree forever on matchup numbers).

It also depends on regions. We here in AN ban D3's infinite, so DK is much more viable than in other regions as a standalone char.

 

[fissionprime]

metaknight can easily go without a secondary, as can snake and marth, but they're more difficult.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Diddy is a pretty good stand alone. G&W does pretty good, too.
As for being perfect, impossible.

 

[cman]

I know some characters like Mr. Game & Watch have the advantage on all three Pokemon, but I don't think anyone completely destroys more than one Pokemon.

Marth hard counters two of them and soft counters the third iirc, so no.

 

[Saki Zatoichi]

Diddy Kong. His worst match-ups are 60:40 and even then the advantages are minor.

 

[OmegaXF]

Marth nuff said!

 

[Eddie G]

My vote goes to Peach, due to my own personal experience against skilled players of every character.

 

[sonic 12111]

Why is g@w on this list. he gets ***** by snakes. and lots of G@w dont know how to handle good sonics or yoshis. they also have trouble fighting ikes if they dont know how to dodge, sheild and di. noob g@w's also get banged by olimars. in fact lots of g@w players have trouble with olimar. his grabs are so **** good.

 

[YagamiDark]

Metaknight and Snake to an extent.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Top tier + Sonic and a few high tier. Other than that you need a secondary.

 

[B!ggad]

WHy do people say Sonic? Doesn't MK wreck him?

 

[arch knight]

the obvious ones mk snake
wolf
PT if you literally know what your doing
bowser

 

[CaliburChamp]

I wouldnt say Sonic is a stand alone character. Olimar and Wario destroy Sonic.

 

[Ballistaboy]

It's like 6-4 falco maybe 65-35. Diddy has TONS of bad matchups, but none that are IMPOSSIBLE. Thus making him not necessarily require a secondary, just a lot of matchup knowledge and slightly more skill than most opponents.

agreed, to stop the cg just keep a banana behind u at all times and stay away from grab range until ur past the percent or when ur close to the percent to be spiked go towards the center of the stage, other than the CG we don't have too much trouble

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Why is g@w on this list. he gets ***** by snakes. and lots of G@w dont know how to handle good sonics or yoshis. they also have trouble fighting ikes if they dont know how to dodge, sheild and di. noob g@w's also get banged by olimars. in fact lots of g@w players have trouble with olimar. his grabs are so **** good.

Noob anything gets ***** by someone with any kind of skill.. <_< I've seen noob g+w's lose to every character in the game, how about that?

 

[Veggi]

WHy do people say Sonic? Doesn't MK wreck him?

No, Sonic is VERY good at punishing, combined with MK's bad shield stun it makes it even easier. He also has a much faster ground and air speed than MK as well as a better weight, a lot of Sonic's attacks can be planned to break through the ones people have problems with, MK gets a lot of his kills by gimping and Sonic doesn't die off the bottom, like at all. MK suffers from DI'ing away from him more than other characters due to his bad air movement, makes even edgeguarding Sonic, not just trying to gimp, a total pain because MK can't get enough moves on him. Put MK's bad air movement, then combine it was Sonic's great recovery and good aerial DI. It makes it rather hard to play against a Sonic who knows what he's doing. Sonic can even just spring over MK because he doesn't suffer from the air cripple.

They both have really predictable KO games on stage.

Plus Sonic pops right out of the tornado.