Stage Information Database and Q&A

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm running a tournament, so I can kinda shake things up...

...By having 2 starters more than usual. I'm not touching other stages, not at my first event, and not when the pro-ban sentiment is so ****ing ******** around here.

 

[Raziek]

Good place to start.

What's the full list, and which two are you adding?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
• Pokemon Stadium 1
• Castle Siege

Counter-Pick Stages
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 2

It's Germany and I'm not an established TO. Don't judge. The added ones are PS1 and CS, obv.

 

[Raziek]

Well, that's a start, so good on ya.

 

[Akaku94]

It's probably way too much to try, but with that small of a CP list, why not just flss?

 

[Tesh]

On a list like that, you will still wind up on a ground stage haha. At least aerial characters can pick their poison in that case.

 

[T-block]

Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
• Pokemon Stadium 1
• Castle Siege

Counter-Pick Stages
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 2

It's Germany and I'm not an established TO. Don't judge. The added ones are PS1 and CS, obv.

No one's judging, dude. A lot of us are TOs around here, and we realize that compromise is a necessity.

On a list like that, you will still wind up on a ground stage haha. At least aerial characters can pick their poison in that case.

Man, people still talk about this aerial-ground garbage?

It's too much of a simplification, guys.

 

[Yikarur]

that aerial-ground-based blabbering is the most bull**** I've ever heard.
how does that even make sense? lol

 

[Tesh]

Meh, you can argue terminology all you want, but the starter list is geared heavily towards giving people any possible edge against Metaknight by buffing ground hugging characters like Falco, Snake, Olimar or ICs.

 

[Akaku94]

Ground vs. Aerial is a little oversimplistic, but it's undoubtable that Falco, ICs, Olimar, and the like are immensely buffed by "starter lists." This is because too many people think flat = most fair.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In most cases, flat does = most fair.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Aerial-viable characters are the minority.

 

[Yikarur]

Meh, you can argue terminology all you want, but the starter list is geared heavily towards giving people any possible edge against Metaknight by buffing ground hugging characters like Falco, Snake, Olimar or ICs.

the starter list would look EXACTLY the same without MK. Why do people always try to reason everything with MK? -.-


this game is "Ground Based". The advantage an "aerial" character has on a "grounded" character in their terrain is much higher than vice versa.
and something like "aerial stage" doesn't even exist except for something like RC.

 

[-LzR-]

Some stages like Castle Siege and Ps2 pretty much need to be starters or they will never be played on. I don't think there are arguments against to put them in starters. BPC managed to make me like ps2. That stage is too awesome.

 

[Tesh]

Aerial-viable characters are the minority.

Even considering this, the starter list still doesn't have one or 2 of their stages.

 

[ぱみゅ]

the starter list would look EXACTLY the same without MK.

That's only true because 90% of the smash players are dumb when it comes to stages, and this people "like" the current list.

 

[Tesh]

Honestly the way the starter list is now doesn't bother me so much. I don't think its right, but people will likely wind up on BF/SV/Lylat/Ps1 regardless so I can't say I care much. Unless its a ditto, one character is always gonna want FD/CS gone and one side is gonna want Delfino/halberd wrong.

 

[T-block]

I have struck to CS before.
I have also struck to FD before.

Both in non-ditto matches.

 

[Tesh]

I struck to FD vs Vinnie's Ice Climbers. Doesn't mean it was a smart move. The stage is so polarizing that I can't think of a matchup where both characters would want it.

I'd like to see you prove me wrong on that tho.

 

[-LzR-]

That is true. There are a few MUs where FD is considered even. I would even say about the same amount or less than in Brinstar. That stage should only be considered a starter with at least a 7 starter list. I use 9 though and I love it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I think FD is hated on too much.

It is definitely polar, and very few MUs are even on it per-say, but the stage layout promotes a lot more depth than Brinny in, I'd say, the majority of match-ups.

 

[Dre89]

It's not that people think flat stages provide more even MUs, it's that flat stages provide the least variables outside of character to character combat. They're the stages you have to 'fight' the least.

Yes they favour certain characters, but the fact you're playing 3 stocks with an 8 minute timer favours certain characters, as opposed to things such as item play or stamina mode.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Except item play and stamina have inherent flaws other than favouring characters, 3 Stock/8 Mins doesn't.

 

[T-block]

What list are we talking about?

Lucario vs. PT
PT strikes YI, PS1, CS
Lucario strikes SV, BF, Lylat

What's the inherent flaw of playing stamina?

 

[Yikarur]

chaingrabs :D:D

 

[Raziek]

What's the inherent flaw of playing stamina?

Unless I'm mistaken, stamina doesn't really scale with knockback much, if at all, which means several CGs become effectively infinite.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Lucario vs. PT
PT strikes YI, PS1, CS
Lucario strikes SV, BF, Lylat

If I ever face a PT, I'd leave Lylat so Ivysaur has a little more trouble recovering.... Just sayin'...
IDK how good are Squirtle or Charizard there, though....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Unless I'm mistaken, stamina doesn't really scale with knockback much, if at all, which means several CGs become effectively infinite.

Yep, this.

 

[T-block]

If I ever face a PT, I'd leave Lylat so Ivysaur has a little more trouble recovering.... Just sayin'...
IDK how good are Squirtle or Charizard there, though....

Nah, Lylat's pretty good for PT. It's absolutely terrible for Charizard against character who can juggle well, but other than that, Ivysaur loves the platform configuration, and her recovery isn't even nerfed on it since it's a tether. Charizard is more likely to be gimped by the tilt than Ivysaur is. Squirtle likes it quite a bit too. It's also a stage that often gives PT lagless switches.

In any case, I don't know Lucario all that well, so my example may have been a little off (those strikes actually happened in a set though, but the other player was just picking up Lucario, so it may not be 100% ideal). However, it still illustrates the point. PT will definitely strike YI and CS. I'd be very surprised if Lucario doesn't strike SV and BF/Lylat. Even if FD isn't the exact median stage, it is still in the middle three.

But isn't it a super polar stage, unfairly geared towards "ground-based" characters? How is it that it can be struck third by two rational players, or even not struck at all? Yeah, if your thinking is "PT is above Lucario on the aerial-ground spectrum... Lucario likes ground stages more than PT does", you would think that PT would strike FD first. However, there is much more to consider than just that.

Yep, this.

That would be mitigated by playing bo7 matches, no? We have deemed one-stock bo7 potentially competitive... why can't bo7 stamina be? Which CGs would become effectively infinite?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I think the main problem with FD is polarization regarding a lot of already top tiers such as Diddy, Snake, Falco, ICs, DDD, etc.
Most characters could go nice on FD, but chances are that you'll be facing one of these chars in a tournament, and no one using a different character from this group and/or half a brain would want to go there against them.

Is basically a "Brinstar/RC syndrome", but not centralized on one character....

 

[C.J.]

That would be mitigated by playing bo7 matches, no? We have deemed one-stock bo7 potentially competitive... why can't bo7 stamina be? Which CGs would become effectively infinite?

All of them. Falco's dthrow, Pika's fthrow, pika's dthrow, Marth's fthrow/dthrow on certain characters (I think, not 100% sure), etc etc etc.

If there's a CG that stops working due to the opponent's % getting too high, then it doesn't stop in stamina.

 

[Life]

Anyone else here have SSF4 3D? Just curious.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That would be mitigated by playing bo7 matches, no? We have deemed one-stock bo7 potentially competitive... why can't bo7 stamina be? Which CGs would become effectively infinite?

There is a difference between a few match-ups having infinites and the majority of common match-ups having infinites.

 

[Tesh]

If Knockback doesn't scale the same, its likely that most of the cast would have upthrow/uptilt/dtilt locks forever.

 

[WindMajor]

I leave SWF for over 2 weeks, and when I do, I:

-Finish 3 really hard assignments on time, getting 3/3 A's.
-Play the most spectacular show of my life.
-Make ~$200 through band work and doing projects for others in the school's library.
-Buy 2 tickets for an A7X concert and Skyward Sword.
-Write two and a half full songs.
-Discover the meaning of life (really).


SWF can be really counterproductive, I swear.

 

[C.J.]

And yet... you come back.

Also, links to your songs?

 

[WindMajor]

I never got to recording anything yet.

And yeah, I have nothing to do until Monday, so I came back. It's like a drug. :x

 

[T-block]

Man I totally know what you're talking about. Whenever SWF goes down I'm actually really happy x.x

What's become of us...

what is the meaning of life btw

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I do a lot because of SWF, lol, it adds some meaning to my life in a way.

Though outside of it, I really should be looking for a job to replace my current one.

 

[WindMajor]

Man I totally know what you're talking about. Whenever SWF goes down I'm actually really happy x.x

What's become of us...

what is the meaning of life btw

to exist and do stuff

okay so i haven't really found the meaning to life as a whole, but i was able to find a deeper meaning and purpose in my life.