Stage Information Database and Q&A

[Grim Tuesday]

After seeing that video, I think Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 needs to be banned.

 

[WindMajor]

After seeing that video, I think Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 needs to be legal.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You ****ing troll XD

Except not lol. I mean there's a reason I post in the Peach boards, lol.

 

[Zigsta]

do you actually namesearch bowser?

it's pretty fun to watch bowser run into flamethrower over and over again i guess

That's right, I namesearch Bowser.

And GTFO!

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I namesearch Ganondorf.

 

[Akaku94]

Ganondorf namesearches me.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

At least he didn't lose to a Lucas.

Haven't lost to him in quite a while, actually. He made it really, really close in winners at the last tournament and he's ****ing amazing. Seriously. I mean, you'd lose to people like Deltacod and Zigsta...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If it is a Meta Knight legal tournament, I wouldn't lose to Zigsta.

 

[ぱみゅ]

MikeHaze's video...
In case someone missed it.

I'm affraid it is implying to reduce even more the stagelist....

 

[Raziek]

Honestly, I stopped taking Mike seriously about this stuff. So much of what he says is so ridiculously one-sided and misses some of the arguments completely.

 

[Tesh]

He doesn't miss them I'm sure, he just avoids the ones he has no response to.

 

[WindMajor]

*sigh*

Weren't they supposed to be facts? All I heard were a bunch of opinions. I was expecting to hear the official reasons as to why the URC actually banned him, not Mikehaze's opinions on why MK should not be banned.

 

[Ghostbone]

*sigh*

Weren't they supposed to be facts? All I heard were a bunch of opinions. I was expecting to hear the official reasons as to why the URC actually banned him, not Mikehaze's opinions on why MK should not be banned.

IMO it's a deliberate attempt to spread misinformation and discredit the URC.
But whatevs.

 

[Zigsta]

If it is a Meta Knight legal tournament, I wouldn't lose to Zigsta.

Is that a challenge?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is.

If you don't come to Australia to challenge me this month then I win by default.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

MikeHaze's video...
In case someone missed it.

I'm affraid it is implying to reduce even more the stagelist....

I don't like how he goes on about character usage.

There is no real way to determine a solution for something like that if word of mouth is the best people can say for character usage.

 

[ぱみゅ]

IMO it's a deliberate attempt to spread misinformation and discredit the URC.
But whatevs.

You mean he setup an evil plan for destroy URC from inside?
Ohman, If I were aware about that, I'd backed him up....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I think Mike is just fat and silly.

 

[Ghostbone]

You mean he setup an evil plan for destroy URC from inside?
Ohman, If I were aware about that, I'd backed him up....

I really don't know.
Someone can't be as stupid as he's being, quoting incorrect data, ignoring key points, having misleading titles, etc. unless it's purposeful.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario is a gay character? Da hell.

 

[WindMajor]

Yo this Norfair guide is gonna get done soon. Would it be a good idea to make it span between two threads? You know, one thread purely for the guide, which will house strategy/tactic/character/stage mechanic discussions, and one for legality in which people can take turns circling each other's arguments endlessly about how gay Wario is on this stage.

I'm thinking that I also wait a couple of weeks before releasing the legality one to present the results to the survey, discuss them with the readers, and based off the discussions, make a more informed legality section.

 

[Raziek]

I'm thinking that I also wait a couple of weeks before releasing the legality one to present the results to the survey, discuss them with the readers, and based off the discussions, make a more informed legality section.

This sounds like a good idea.

 

[Life]

NaNoWriMo. I'm not technically participating, but I think Twinkie's guide might count as a novel. <_______<

 

[WindMajor]

A novel would be an understatement.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yo this Norfair guide is gonna get done soon. Would it be a good idea to make it span between two threads? You know, one thread purely for the guide, which will house strategy/tactic/character/stage mechanic discussions, and one for legality in which people can take turns circling each other's arguments endlessly about how gay Wario is on this stage.

I'm thinking that I also wait a couple of weeks before releasing the legality one to present the results to the survey, discuss them with the readers, and based off the discussions, make a more informed legality section.

I approve of this.

May I read it privately? Pretty please with chocolate and strawberrys on top.

 

[WindMajor]

After I proofread it, perhaps.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Will bribery for government corruption work?

 

[WindMajor]

Nope. Not appealing enough. Try again.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Twinkie, when you add my profile to the OP, add Olimar and Pikachu, they're my latest secondaries

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nope. Not appealing enough. Try again.

Free flight to APEX?

 

[Life]

Random thought. If I were to say "having multiple win conditions is good for competition because it allows a wider variety of strategies", on what grounds would someone disagree? If I extended that to "stock+time is the best format because it allows two different win conditions and thus a wider range of strategies" and then said that timing out is a legitimate way to win on those grounds, what am I missing?

Or, to put it differently, I have a pro-timing out argument in the nebulous stages in my head, but I can't figure out how to phrase it well. Since Stage GD is filled with my closest intellectual peers (at least, when it comes to SSB), I figure I'd ask for help here. Is there anything wrong with the above logical progression? How can I word it better?

 

[Raziek]

The issue that argument runs into at face value is that it could be argued that while the NUMBER of strategies increases, the depth of the game in fact DECREASES if one of those strategies (say, timing out, for example) is dominant to the detriment of the other strategies.

Essentially you`re relegated to arguing that time-outs ADD depth rather than remove it, which is a steep hill to climb, given the nature of how time-outs occur. (Especially with no LGL)

EDIT: However, as time-outs are essentially the only other viable wincon and result purely as a necessity of tournament flow, there's not really anywhere you can go from there.

Unless you have another win-con to introduce.

 

[Tesh]

That sounds true, but off the top of my head I can't remember multiple win conditions being anything but annoying.

Example: Call of Duty MW2, it ALWAYS pissed me off when people could win objective games with a Nuke. I guess technically it added depth as it eventually forced people to ignore the objective and find him before he got 25 kills, but in the end it felt more like having to deal with a back door tactic from someone that ignore the "spirit of the game".

 

[Life]

The issue that argument runs into at face value is that it could be argued that while the NUMBER of strategies increases, the depth of the game in fact DECREASES if one of those strategies (say, timing out, for example) is dominant to the detriment of the other strategies.

Essentially you`re relegated to arguing that time-outs ADD depth rather than remove it, which is a steep hill to climb, given the nature of how time-outs occur. (Especially with no LGL)

EDIT: However, as time-outs are essentially the only other viable wincon and result purely as a necessity of tournament flow, there's not really anywhere you can go from there.

Unless you have another win-con to introduce.

The thing is that time-outs aren't overcentralizing. The majority of games end by stock victory--usually with ample time left (although the exact balance of time wins to stock wins will always vary by matchup, because that's the entire point of having matchups in the first place). The concept of "close to the timer wins" being problematic is the only potential hole here, but I'm not sure it is one.

I'm not saying this makes a timer increase a bad idea, but I am saying that timing out is a legitimate way to win.

We technically have three wincons, if you think about it: stock win, percent tiebreaker, LGL tiebreaker. LGL detracts from percent tiebreaker and has other issues besides, so it's not necessarily bad to remove that. However, timeouts aren't overcentralizing as it stands right now, so adding minutes to the timer isn't necessary (although that could change once the LGL is removed).

That sounds true, but off the top of my head I can't remember multiple win conditions being anything but annoying.

Example: Call of Duty MW2, it ALWAYS pissed me off when people could win objective games with a Nuke. I guess technically it added depth as it eventually forced people to ignore the objective and find him before he got 25 kills, but in the end it felt more like having to deal with a back door tactic from someone that ignore the "spirit of the game".

I'm not familiar enough with CoD to argue over this effectively, but it seems to me like one of the scenarios Raz pointed out, that is, the strategy has become problematic. You have to stop what you're doing and go find the guy with the kill streak in order to not have the rug pulled from under you; in a fighter, the way you deal with an aggro and a campy player isn't particularly different: beat the living snot out of them. The FPS format you described has gone from "complete the objective" to "complete the objective without letting anyone get an arbitrarily large kill streak"; the two fighter win conditions still amount to smacking your opponent around more than they smack you around.

If the streak number were higher, would you find it less annoying? Or is the annoying part that you go for the primary wincon and you get the second almost by accident?

 

[Raziek]

The issue is not so much that it's over-centralizing, simply that it exists and removes depth.

What exactly do you intend to argue? If it's legitimizing timeouts, don't bother, they're already here to stay merely by necessity.

 

[Ghostbone]

While timing out is legitimate according to the game, it's only legitimate with a stock lead, not a percentage lead.

I know that's an argument against timing out being legitimate, so idk how you'd refute that.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Or we could all play Sudden Death!!

 

[Life]

Meh. It was a random thought.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

My region has only 10 stages left

I give up :/

 

[ぱみゅ]

In moments like this, I'm glad to be the local TO, or we'd be stuck in FD-only tournaments.....