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St.Louis Area Discussion Thread

MetalMusicMan

Sleepwalk our lives away.
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,643
Location
St. Charles, Missouri
FRIDAY!?!?!?!? Who wants to smash on a Friday?!?! I'm far too busy taking Legan's dog out on HOT DATES on Friday nights!!! Oooohhhh yeeeaaaaahhhhh.

Since my Fridays are busy because I'm such a sexy inter-species swinger, I'll be hosting tomorrow night (tuesday) as usual, around 5pm.

Bring the pwnage!
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
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Aug 26, 2007
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6,535
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Madison, WI
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Thinkaman
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You didn't miss much.

I'm planning on sleeping through Tuesday myself.

Takes notes for me.
 

Teh Future

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
4,870
Location
St. Louis, MO
What, do you work til midnight? Legan used to work Fridays and he'd show up later. People generally stay until 2 AM or later, that is precisely the reason these are held on Fridays.
Well it changes greatly depending on how busy we are. I usually get out around 10:30 or 11 but washU is like another hour away and geno's house is like 45 mins.

I just hate driving that much to play a couple hours of smash. :urg:
 

MuBa

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
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Dragon Kick you into the Milky Way!
Well it changes greatly depending on how busy we are. I usually get out around 10:30 or 11 but washU is like another hour away and geno's house is like 45 mins.

I just hate driving that much to play a couple hours of smash. :urg:
Quit your whining and man up. It takes me 35 minutes to get to Wash U. and a good 1 hour (stupid traffic) to get to MMM's place.


Btw MMM is it okay for me to get to your place a bit earlier like around 4:30ish cuz traffic is just a bitch to get through. It shouldn't take me 1 whole hour just to drive 30 miles to your place.

I hope Seth is there at 4:30.
 

Thinkaman

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Thoughts:

Geno, you still have my copy of Melee.

Have I ever told any of you guys about the Pokemon Card Puzzle I made? I was pretty much the best Pokemon Master ever when it came to those cards, since no one good played it in my area but I still followed the deck metagame from national events on the coast and all that. I'm willing to bet big that no one can solve this puzzle, it's so ridiculous.
 

MuBa

Smash Lord
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Nov 4, 2005
Messages
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Dragon Kick you into the Milky Way!
Speaking of Pokemon, I'd like to get back into the Pokemon TCG league. It's soooo much better than Yu-Gi-Oh where there's like no deck variation to be used. You can pretty much make 50% of your deck from the restriction list.
 

Teh Future

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
4,870
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St. Louis, MO
Well there's also the issue of directions which I'm terrible with, and the fact that I've been on the highway like twice. I honestly don't have that big of a problem with it, but I'd rather not get lost at midnight and have to call my mom when I lied to her about where I was going in the first place : \

I'll make it there some time, in the meantime I'll stop complaining to everyone here though.

Metal I'll be there a lil after 5 imma try to find a way around mid rivers though like muba said traffic there really is a *****.
 

dark-war-cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
247
Location
Missouri
I guess i could try to go to the friday one at wherever it's going to be hosted.
I'll talk to ben and see if he wants a ride or anything.
 

Thinkaman

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Speaking of Pokemon, I'd like to get back into the Pokemon TCG league. It's soooo much better than Yu-Gi-Oh where there's like no deck variation to be used. You can pretty much make 50% of your deck from the restriction list.
Are we talking about the same game?

Granted, the Pokemon TCG seems better now in this regard from my very limited knowledge, but back in the day the Pokemon TCG was infamous for having an incredibly small number of useful, competitive cards. A (EDIT: NOT) brief history:

An American novelist who never even played the game saw a list of the base set cards from Japan before they were released here, and theorized that evolution cards were crap and Hitmonchan was the best Pokemon. He was right, and this idea that he called "Haymaker" became known as the "dominant deck archetype" for as long as I played the game.

Base Set: All decks included Professor Oak (unquestionably the best card in the game) and Computer Search, almost always 4 of each. They also used lots of Bills, Potions, Plus Powers, Defenders, Itemfinders, Gust of Winds, and Energy Removals. The only Pokemon used were Hitmonchan, Electrabuzz (who Hitmonchan countered), and Machop (A worse Hitmonchan). The other deck archetype was "Rain Dance", revolving around Blastoise; this deck was effective in Base set, but required more luck and was more susceptible to things like Gust of Wind. Rain Dance slowly died out over the course of the game as Haymaker proved superior. A lot of people who didn't understand that the point of Haymaker was to avoid evolution cards tried to use Kadabra against it, to limited success.

Jungle and Movie Mewtwo: Jungle added Scyther, who was the first 70 HP Pokemon with no retreat cost, and resistant to Hitmonchan and with colorless attack to boot. Almost all decks threw in Scythers, and everyone always wanted to lead with a Scyther first turn or swap to him whenever they were in a tight spot. Around this time we also got the promotional card Movie Mewtwo, who was similar to Hitmonchan, but countered him! We also go Jigglypuff and Wigglytuff; for as long as I played the game, Wigglytuff was the ONLY evolution worth playing. (It was a very "broken" card.) Mr. Mime also saw occasional play.

At this point, the game was pretty much rock-paper-scissors, where Hitmonchan beat Wigglytuff, who beat Mewtwo, who beat Hitmonchan... with Scyther as a defensive wild card offering you some mobility.

Fossil came out, and I'm not sure of a single decent card it added. Some people randomly played Lapras...

Rocket gave us Rocket Sneak Attack, a very mean card that made the game more agressive. Dark Vileplume let people make some really eccentric decks outside the Haymaker style, but nothing really effective. The special energy cards in Rocket saw occasional use for a long time, as was Nightly Garbage Run which gave rise to oddball stall decks.

Gym 1 made the game pretty interesting, even if it didn't add all that much. Erika's Dratini was a really fun card, almost a more defensive alternative to Scyther. No Removal Gym saw widespread use, and several decks used Rocket's Training Gym.

Gym 2 wrecked the game. Rocket's Zapdos was the new, absurdly overpowered card on the block. He had all the abilities of Hitmonchan, Mewtwo, and Wigglytuff in one card, with no weaknesses. On top of that, Team Rocket's Trap (TRT) was a ridiculously overpowered and luck-driven trainer card that stood to completely shut down your opponent... I remember one top player remarking that now you had to play a Trap deck if you wanted to win, and when two Trap decks play, whoever goes first wins. People kept trying to find ways to beat Rocket Zapdos, but none succeeded. (Though someone discovered that Clefable from Jungle could kill it in one hit for one energy, no good Trap deck should let their opponent play a Clefable.)

The game was dead... but then Neo came and saved it. In my opinion Neo was the golden age of the game; Cleffa was a fantastic new card that countered TRT completely, and the fact that you could Breeder it into Clefable sort of countered Zapdos a little. Metal and Darkness Energy were fantastic additions, with Metal Chansey (all the way from base set) being one of my favorite obscure strategies. Murkrow brought Shutdown decks back, and Sneasel was the latest addition to the Haymaker metagame. (Made things really interesting.) Ecogym and Sprout Tower were often used, while Gold Berry and Mary made stall decks much more viable. Gligar was a fun new offensive alternative to Scyther.

The new two Neo sets didn't really change much, which was probably for the best. I quit the game around the time Neo 3 came out.

...good times...good times...

For the record, my puzzle involves two Chanseys fighting two Hitmonchans. It's madness.

EDIT: Did I just type all that? .........why?
 

MuBa

Smash Lord
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Nov 4, 2005
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Dragon Kick you into the Milky Way!
You're talking about those puzzles in the magazines where they put you in a tight situation in a match and you have to solve how to get out of them or else you'd lose. Those were fun. I used to be good with them.

Also don't forget how Slowking became such a powerful card...even though it's pokemon power was suppose to be an errata WoTC decided to ban the card along with Sneasel.
 

The Milk Monster

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Collinsville, IL.
It's clearly not the Pokemon Rap.
Uninterested.
Also, the biweeklies I have been hosting, next weekend is the last week I can do it for 2008, I will talk him into holding a tourney for both Brawl and Melee.
Could I get some more people to show possibly?
 

Nuris

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,578
All I remember about Pokemon TCG was making a deck with lots of Geodudes and flipping heads every time. Let's talk change the subject back to smash, or at least to the Pokemon video games.
 

Dekuschrub

Smash Master
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Sep 4, 2006
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St. Louis MO
i'm actually surprised his banning is getting this popular..

i personally do not think hes that good, but i do understand that he makes some matchups next to impossible to win against him.
 

Zig-Zag!

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Messages
1,403
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Your mother
He's uber gay, but not ban worthy. At least not yet...I seem to recall the same type of movement for Shiek in melee many years back.

I cant decide which game to play these days. I like both way too much.
 

Cook

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
3,364
Location
Hannibal, MO
You guys should come to our tournament in Kirksville at Truman State University. Check out the thread. /spam
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
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St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
dedede is the equivalent of sheik in melee lol
metaknight would be like fox, but with insane recovery instead of crappy recovery
but dedede chaingrabs half the cast and gets rid of any sort of chance for many of the low/mid tiers
 

Cook

Smash Master
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Mar 27, 2008
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Hannibal, MO
You obviously haven't played a good chaingrabbing Dedede have you...
Definitely play a chaingrabbing Dedede all the time. Whether he's good is kind of debatable... I'd say he's not that good, but he's decent.

dedede is the equivalent of sheik in melee lol
metaknight would be like fox, but with insane recovery instead of crappy recovery
but dedede chaingrabs half the cast and gets rid of any sort of chance for many of the low/mid tiers
Dedede has way too many counters to be banned, whereas Meta has no counters. Even some low tiers (Sheik, Sonic) counter or go even with Dedede.
 

Dekuschrub

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St. Louis MO
yeah there is no way in hell DeDeDe will be banned ever... DDD is just not that good.

Metaknight is good, I really believe he is "Fox" good, so not unbeatable. He does have matchups that are harder. (for example GaW is pretty ******** to fight as MK, as well as Snake).

People are just being babys right now because MK is countering a lot of the higher tier. (like MK>>>DDD)
 

Thinkaman

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What atma is getting at is the DDD has a larger negative effect on character diversity in the meta-game than MK, even though he isn't as good.

MK is said to have no counters, but he doesn't really WTFOMGPWN anyone either. I've said in several topics that almost no characters have MK as their worst matchup. Meanwhile, DDD has standing infinites on 5 characters and is an extremely difficult matchup for a few others.

I really hate making Melee comparisons, but Deku just started the one I would make anyway, so I'm going to run with it. MK is like Fox. Yeah, he's really good, but if you look at a matchup chart Fox doesn't WTFOMGPWN much of the cast... even crappy characters like Mewtwo and G&W have obscure strategies and tactics they can use against him due to his fall speed.

If you wanted to ban Fox from the game because he is too good... well, people will disagree with you, but you can argue that I guess. However, if you tried to argue that eliminating Fox would give low tiers a better chance and increase character variety, you'd be laughed off Smashboards as a fool. Shiek, Falco, and Marth would be free to dominate the low tiers even harder. It's the same with Meta Knight... he's good, but for the time being he is keeping the people that **** the low tiers in check.

ALSO: I haven't gotten an reply back from the DUC person yet, which is really weird. This weekend it looks like we will just have a normal Smashfest again. I will try to manually find this person tomorrow afternoon to find out what's going on.
 

dark-war-cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
247
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Missouri
Weren't the climbers banned in melee for a while?
Also, I'm considering switching to DDD for a secondary, what do you guys think?
 

Dekuschrub

Smash Master
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Sep 4, 2006
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St. Louis MO
disregarding his banning..

MK is soooo good...
i was in a tourney here and I was getting worked (idk if i was out of practice or what) but I switched from marth to MK and it was amazingggg lololol

(I lost to a mario with marth.... MARIO!!!)
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
Weren't the climbers banned in melee for a while?
Also, I'm considering switching to DDD for a secondary, what do you guys think?
No.

A few tournaments banned wobbling but IC's have always been legal.

Metaknight shouldn't be banned. It'd be a real low point for Brawl.

Edit: I don't know how Sakurai could have overlooked chaingrabs in Brawl. I mean they go against every principle he's ever announced.
 

dmac

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
2,773
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St, Joseph, MO
for clarification, in super turbo gouki and old sagat are soft banned in japan (meaning they aren't actually banned, but pros dont play them. its just looked down upon to pick them). gouki is hard banned in the states (impossible to pick in legit tournaments), while there is nothing to stop people from picking old sagat here.
 

brawlpro

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
4,175
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Florissant, St. Louis, MO Tech Skill: Over 9000
off of the banning conversation....I like took my 2058897457843 block memory card to a nub friends house to prove to everyone that bpro is the best meleesmasher in scko0l, which i did btw, but i apparently left the card there and he apparently can't find it...dude's so basically no more melee for me, does anyone like have a raggedy 59 block card laying around lol, *******s won't gimme a job >_<, and there isn't enough change under the couch for a memory card, and melee is the only game i still basically play on gc.

ok well yea, love, peace, and hair greaseeeeee stl.
 

Cook

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
3,364
Location
Hannibal, MO
What atma is getting at is the DDD has a larger negative effect on character diversity in the meta-game than MK, even though he isn't as good.

MK is said to have no counters, but he doesn't really WTFOMGPWN anyone either. I've said in several topics that almost no characters have MK as their worst matchup. Meanwhile, DDD has standing infinites on 5 characters and is an extremely difficult matchup for a few others.

I really hate making Melee comparisons, but Deku just started the one I would make anyway, so I'm going to run with it. MK is like Fox. Yeah, he's really good, but if you look at a matchup chart Fox doesn't WTFOMGPWN much of the cast... even crappy characters like Mewtwo and G&W have obscure strategies and tactics they can use against him due to his fall speed.

If you wanted to ban Fox from the game because he is too good... well, people will disagree with you, but you can argue that I guess. However, if you tried to argue that eliminating Fox would give low tiers a better chance and increase character variety, you'd be laughed off Smashboards as a fool. Shiek, Falco, and Marth would be free to dominate the low tiers even harder. It's the same with Meta Knight... he's good, but for the time being he is keeping the people that **** the low tiers in check.

ALSO: I haven't gotten an reply back from the DUC person yet, which is really weird. This weekend it looks like we will just have a normal Smashfest again. I will try to manually find this person tomorrow afternoon to find out what's going on.
Dedede has too many counters to take over. Yes, he makes some characters unplayable against him, but he's got some pretty bad matchups. People can use DK, Luigi, Bowser, etc. in the first round because they don't know who their opponent will pick. Dedede mains are taking a similar risk if they start with Dedede, because their opponent may start with a Dedede counter like Olimar (though Dedede has a better chance of winning against Olimar than Luigi does against Dedede, his odds are still pretty bad). Dedede is fair because it's as much of a risk to pick him at first as it is to pick anyone (for the most part). Metaknight, though, gives you an edge over any other character, so there's no risk in using him and no need for a secondary. Dedede mains need a secondary.
 

Dekuschrub

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
3,295
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St. Louis MO
picking up a secondary in brawl is so easy...

i think a lot of the game will revolve around a lot of character counterpicking..

or at least thats what I would do...
 
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