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Sonic's Tier Placement

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ROOOOY!

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Top
Metaknight
Snake
King DDD
Mr G&W
Falco
ROB

High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
DK
Diddy
Pikachu
IC
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zamus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Shiek

Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Cptn. Falcon

I'm just wondering what you guys think the justification for this is.

I mean, when this was made, Sonic was 22nd out of 39 characters, and tournament results are (supposed) to be the most contributing factor. He's no where near 5th last in that, same could be said about his match-ups and character potential.
Not that I care about where he's put in some absent-minded list, it's just this is going to be detrimentral to Sonic, as most people will ignore Sonic because of his low placing and thus his meta-game will develop at a much slower rate then other characters.
Discuss.
 

Kinzer

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One day when some idiot decides to follow that list and play meta knight, he is going to be broken when he plays a good falcon...
 

Chis

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I've learned never to trust tier lists for anything. And lists like that one is one of the reasons who...
 

Tenki

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Is full of fail and cluelessness.




I'm just wondering what you guys think the justification for this is.
I personally think it's character bias. Many BRoomers hate Sonic. Samurai Panda said so on SMYN, and many others have echoed it.

I mean, when this was made, Sonic was 22nd out of 39 characters, and tournament results are (supposed) to be the most contributing factor. He's no where near 5th last in that, same could be said about his match-ups and character potential.
Not that I care about where he's put in some absent-minded list, it's just this is going to be detrimentral to Sonic, as most people will ignore Sonic because of his low placing and thus his meta-game will develop at a much slower rate then other characters.
Discuss.
Alot of those tourney results were pulled off by the same people- __X__, 3000, memphis, etc.


It doesn't really matter since anyone who ever even comes to the Sonic boards are either people who have been here trying to develop the metagame, random newbfanboyspam, people who think they're discovering new techniques, and whatever else you can categorize other regulars.
 

RedrappeR

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It's a fairly reflective list guys. It's what we've been saying play out in tournaments.

To be honest, a lot of these characters aren't getting potentially better.

Sonic's placement is LOW. it should be higher-- but this is the same thing that happened in Melee guys. Just prove em wrong.
 

ROOOOY!

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Alot of those tourney results were pulled off by the same people- __X__, 3000, memphis, etc.


It doesn't really matter since anyone who ever even comes to the Sonic boards are either people who have been here trying to develop the metagame, random newbfanboyspam, people who think they're discovering new techniques, and whatever else you can categorize other regulars.
So what? They're still results.
How about Bowser? His results are bad in general, and it's only really Sliq who's contributing anything. How has he made it that high?
It's an absolute farce lol. I can't take any 'official' **** from the BRoom seriously now.
It's not just Sonic's place I'm bothered about, there's plenty of others.
They just gave up on the tier list from high downwards because the world of maining NON HIGH TIER CHARACTERS (:O) is too scary for them (except Youko who mains Falcon because he's a real man)
I have a feeling SLink will be a little pissed after me and him have spent most of our LIVES defending Sonic for like nothing lol.
The bit about the newcomers in the Sonic boards is true. It might not be the same in the other 'low tier' character boards thoough

Oh well lol who cares? Sonic may be low low tier, but MY Sonic is top tier. ;D
 

Camalange

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I wouldn't worry about this too much. Sure, it's idiotic, but it's not the official tier list. The tournament results are fairly good (we're about half way up the list) and we have a lot of AT's...What else do they look for? One person's opinion I don't think will effect the whole group...
or does it >.<
Still though, I'm hoping they see he's a definite mid tier character and has a lot of potential if used well.
 

KRDsonic

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Sonic's placing is where it should be IMO. He's not that bad of a character, however, that's the best he is, just "not bad", and that isn't good for brawl, since most characters are broken.

And I've played with/done reasearch for most characters, and just about every character in the game is just better than Sonic.

However, the thing about brawl is that tiers don't matter all that much, so if you don't like his placing, just ignore it, it's not like it'll change how you use him.
 

Camalange

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Sonic's placing is where it should be IMO. He's not that bad of a character, however, that's the best he is, just "not bad", and that isn't good for brawl, since most characters are broken.

And I've played with/done reasearch for most characters, and just about every character in the game is just better than Sonic.

However, the thing about brawl is that tiers don't matter all that much, so if you don't like his placing, just ignore it, it's not like it'll change how you use him.
I see your point, but look at the Character Rankings List. Soinc is number 22 right now. On this list he's put as the 5th worst. You can't deny tournament results and this list seems to ignore that once you get past Top Tier.
 

KRDsonic

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I see your point, but look at the Character Rankings List. Soinc is number 22 right now. On this list he's put as the 5th worst. You can't deny tournament results and this list seems to ignore that once you get past Top Tier.
Eh, I don't really pay much attention to who is above another person when it comes to low tiers xD, because it's so close.
 

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Eh, I don't really pay much attention to who is above another person when it comes to low tiers xD, because it's so close.
But the thing is Sonic isn't very close to the low tier characters...he's right by Fox and Ike who are Middle tier! It currently goes like this
20 Fox
21 Ike
22 Sonic
But yet Sonic is low tier...pretty fricken low on the low tier list even. I'm not a big tier guy but I still find this bothersome.

BTW: I just realized I misspelled Sonic in my last post.
 

ROOOOY!

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Meh. The list is an obvious ploy for their reasoning that they're NEVER going to bean Metaknight. Putting him in the same tier as multiple characters shows us this. From High downwards, I don't think any thought or effort was put into it, they'd already got their point across that MK is 'on the same terms' as Snake, Dedede etc.
Or at least I hope that's what it is. Otherwise :\
I like how it must have been Ike's results that have landed him so high, and Sonic's results despite being on par with Ike's have not helped his placing at all xD
I think this is just a Metaknight ploy.
 

Wildfire393

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Honestly, Sonic has many, many aspects that scream that he deserves EXACTLY this placement on the tier list. And few, if any, that state otherwise.

I mean, he's supposedly a "fast" character, but anything he does (smashes, aerials, aerial movement, tilts even) comes out relatively slow. But he still hits like a fast character, having very little kill potential. The problem is, he doesn't hit like a GOOD fast character, who has a number of moves that keep the opponent close enough to follow up. Basically all of his moves, across the board, have exactly enough knockback to not be combo-able, but at the same time have pathetic KO and damage potentials. Add this to the fact that they don't come out that quickly and you have a character with a blatantly bad moveset.

His recovery looks like it could make up for it, to an extent. But keep in mind that Sonic is one of the few characters incapable of up-Bing straight to the ledge. This makes him extra-vulnerable to things like spikes and edge-guards.

So we've got a character with bad KO potential, bad combo potential, bad straight damage potential, no projectile or answer to projectile spam, and a fairly mediocre recovery. And his one "uber" quality (speed) only applies if you're running all the way across the stage, due to his slow aerial movement and not-great acceleration. So what exactly makes him deserving of being higher on the tier list? The fact that you can play him well? This is brawl: any character can be played well, and can even place in tournaments if played well enough. The tier list is more a measure of the character's overall power-level, which in sonic's case, is inarguably fairly low.
 

ROOOOY!

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No answer to projectile spam?
No damage potential?
No combos?
MEDIOCRE RECOVERY?!

Get the fuck out of our boards.

Edit : Okay I should justify a bit >_>

Projectile spam. Ike has problems with it. Bowser has problems with it. Why? Because they're slow on the ground, big targets, and have poor horizontal air speed.
Sonic has the fastest ground speed, is a relatively small target, and has the 6th fastest horizontal airspeed, and is infact the fastest if you spinshot. Getting in an opponents face quickly stops the projectiles, and that's easy for Sonic.

Damage/combos stuff. An ASC combo can rack up over 30% damage. Tilts, smashes and aerials are generally quite damaging. Hardly any characters can even half properly combo in Brawl, and there's only a small handful who do it better than Sonic. I thought he had low knockback on his moves? Surely that'd get them to link together at least semi-decently.

And the recovery comment leads me to believe that you've probably never seen gameplay footage of Sonic ever. Sonic has multiple ways of recovering and I'm not going to bother explaining something so painfully obvious.
 

IceDX

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Honestly, Sonic has many, many aspects that scream that he deserves EXACTLY this placement on the tier list. And few, if any, that state otherwise.

I mean, he's supposedly a "fast" character, but anything he does (smashes, aerials, aerial movement, tilts even) comes out relatively slow. But he still hits like a fast character, having very little kill potential. The problem is, he doesn't hit like a GOOD fast character, who has a number of moves that keep the opponent close enough to follow up. Basically all of his moves, across the board, have exactly enough knockback to not be combo-able, but at the same time have pathetic KO and damage potentials. Add this to the fact that they don't come out that quickly and you have a character with a blatantly bad moveset.

His recovery looks like it could make up for it, to an extent. But keep in mind that Sonic is one of the few characters incapable of up-Bing straight to the ledge. This makes him extra-vulnerable to things like spikes and edge-guards.

So we've got a character with bad KO potential, bad combo potential, bad straight damage potential, no projectile or answer to projectile spam, and a fairly mediocre recovery. And his one "uber" quality (speed) only applies if you're running all the way across the stage, due to his slow aerial movement and not-great acceleration. So what exactly makes him deserving of being higher on the tier list? The fact that you can play him well? This is brawl: any character can be played well, and can even place in tournaments if played well enough. The tier list is more a measure of the character's overall power-level, which in sonic's case, is inarguably fairly low.
Man this is exactly what i would think of a sheik main to say bout Sonic jaj .. ill only say one thing Sonic is better than sheik :p
 

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Meh. The list is an obvious ploy for their reasoning that they're NEVER going to bean Metaknight. Putting him in the same tier as multiple characters shows us this. From High downwards, I don't think any thought or effort was put into it, they'd already got their point across that MK is 'on the same terms' as Snake, Dedede etc.
Or at least I hope that's what it is. Otherwise :\
I like how it must have been Ike's results that have landed him so high, and Sonic's results despite being on par with Ike's have not helped his placing at all xD
I think this is just a Metaknight ploy.
Metaknight ploy huh? Well I hope so.
 

Tenki

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Man this is exactly what i would think of a sheik main to say bout Sonic jaj .. ill only say one thing Sonic is better than sheik :p
Sheik can hide under a platform with chain and render melee-ranged characters useless.
Vanish is such an evil counterattack, and...

Sheik arguably has a better down-B than Sonic.

Either way, that person doesn't know what he's talking about with Sonic anyway lol.
 

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Sheik is better than Sonic. But.. Sonic worse than Pokemon Trainer and Yoshi? Really? It must be because of their tournament placings. Oh wait, that's right. No one ****ing uses them in tournaments. List is mediocre. Sonic isn't good, and may not even reach mid tier, but I'll never agree with him being 5th worst.
 

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Sonic worse than Pokemon Trainer and Yoshi? Really? It must be because of their tournament placings. Oh wait, that's right. No one ****ing uses them in tournaments. List is mediocre. Sonic isn't good, and may not even reach mid tier, but I'll never agree with him being 5th worst.
My point exactly.
 

Boxob

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Sonic was originally going to be right under MK. I stopped play and SamuraiPanda was like "****, he sucks now" and they made him low tier.

:093:
 

R4ZE

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[Broken Record]

if people played sonic right, he would be high tier.
he just has a high learning curve.

[/Broken Record]
 

Camalange

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Don't forget, unlike Sonic, Sheik can transform into Zelda for her kills, Sonic doesn't have that option.
Sonic has options, just harder options.
EDIT: I wouldn't say high tier R4ZE, but definitely not low.
 

Phoenix_Dark

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[Broken Record]

if people played sonic right, he would be high tier.
he just has a high learning curve.

[/Broken Record]
Unless Sonic's noodley legs gain the power of a Falcon knee, he'll never be high tier. Although, according to this tier list, it apparently only takes one person placing well with a character to sky rocket them up the tier list. Oh, unless you're Sonic. Apparently Sonic's placings don't count.
 

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Unless Sonic's noodley legs gain the power of a Falcon knee, he'll never be high tier. Although, according to this tier list, it apparently only takes one person placing well with a character to sky rocket them up the tier list. Oh, unless you're Sonic. Apparently Sonic's placings don't count.
EXACTLY. Did you see how high Bowser is on this tier list? Total bullsh*t. Sonic has higher tournament placings than him, but yet Bowser is apparently amazing compared to Sonic.
 

RixMaadi

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It hasn't even been a year yet, so all of these tier lists are probably going to be off of early impressions, which is why it's version 1. The upper tier characters will probably remain the same, but I keep seeing the lower tier characters moving around everywhere on many lists.

I say that we shouldn't let this have a strong psychologically effect on us right now. The list has contradictions in itself with tournament results, so the only thing to do is keep developing Sonic, keep playing well, see how future tournament results are, and then wait for the next list.
 

Phoenix_Dark

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It's not that it will effect people that have been playing Sonic to this point. What it will do, is keep newcomers away from using Sonic. Causing his progression to be slower than top/high tier characters. Sure, they made a note saying that people shouldn't let the list change their views on characters, but we all know that it will have an impact on exactly that.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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I think Pika should be above Diddy, Bowser and Ness should switch, Sonic should be between Peach and Ike, and Kirby and Wolf should switch.

Phoenix and I had an interesting conversation on their reasoning.....
 

ppig

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i dont understand how brawl can even have a tier list the game itself isnt even that competitive when u can randomly trip in a game that just kills it and with sonic being considered low tier that just means the few sonic players can fell good when they beat up the so called top tier list and so far all i have seen from the tournys are if u arent meta knight our snake u lose so brawl can go suck the big one
 

da K.I.D.

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all i have to say is that he is better than Mario, PT, Samus and Yoshi
he might be better than the earthbounders as well, but i know next to nothing about them, and being better than those 4-6 would take him out of Low tier. either way it doesnt matter, we dont really need more ppl to play sonic, our metagame is evolving steadily, and we have a strong core group of sonic mainers, as long as the list isnt going to stop us from playing sonic, we have nothign to worry about
my friend goodies, he said something that really hit me...
this whole tier list is based on how good each character does against MK
that explains why sonic is lower than yoshi. it sounds legit too.
this list is like 40% tourney results and 60% MK matchup chart
 

Tenki

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lol@ Metaknight matchup+Brawl Tier list. Sounds pretty plausible.

Remember when KASR made that thread about the H2YL list? lol it's basically that.

Except this tier list is made by the SBR, so now people can complain about it all they want.







speaking of which, KASR went to that tournament in Chicago and never came back..?

The soul of the Sonic boards is gone, like the rib in boneless bbq ribs.
 

Phoenix_Dark

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Don't know about you but I'm switching to MK......
Same. He obviously has Sonic's original specials. I mean, when did MK ever turn into a tornado? Sonic on the other hand has. Also, Sonic could move fast enough to appear invisible. MK..not so much. MK is obviously the true Sonic. I encourage you all to switch to the real Sonic, and leave this imposter behind.
 
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