Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[Kinzer]

You have to time the Spring when you get to the ledge at the Apex of the Jump I think, I dunno. >.>

 

[Napilopez]

You have to time the Spring when you get to the ledge at the Apex of the Jump I think, I dunno. >.>

Nope, actually its somewhere during the initial frames of it, from what I've read. I haven't done it though.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I've done it like twice.

It's not that useful, IMO.

The spring itself gets canceled out.

 

[Kinzer]

You sure they didn't just get stuck under Final D? O.o

 

[thecatinthehat]

left side of Smashville for me. both times.

 

[Chis]

The HA isn't that bad. Steal second jumps, edgeguard those with multiple jumps.. Also you can reverse it, so if HA fails you'll head towards the stage. However I've forgotten how to do that...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Tilt to side then press B.
Similar to changing Link's arrow's firing direction in mid air.

 

[Tenki]

The HA isn't that bad. Steal second jumps, edgeguard those with multiple jumps.. Also you can reverse it, so if HA fails you'll head towards the stage. However I've forgotten how to do that...

Well, provided you land and get out of the 'airtrip' state ASAP, bouncing on a spring will restore your double jumps.

Tap the direction you want to face first, then hit B soon after. I think if you take too long, it forgets the direction or something.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Well, provided you land and get out of the 'airtrip' state ASAP, bouncing on a spring will restore your double jumps.

Tap the direction you want to face first, then hit B soon after. I think if you take too long, it forgets the direction or something.

As usual, Tenki is right

 

[ShadowLink84]

<_<
I already mentioned turning the homing attack around.

 

[infomon]

Well, both methods work:
1. HA while tilting slightly backwards on the control stick
2. Tap backwards and then HA quickly afterwards

 

[ShadowLink84]

its the same thing. Both involve flicking to the side just before you hit B. I estimate around .3 seconds =p

 

[infomon]

Oh, I thought with the subtle-tilt way, you're actually holding the direction when you hit B; with the tap-then-B, the control stick's actually in neutral. I find the second method much easier, but the first might be faster to pull off if you have really good fast tilt-control lol. It seems more dangerous to me tho, I SD'd a bunch trying it lol.

 

[R4ZE]

you cant hit the direction AFTER you execute HA? I thought I was able to..... would it matter if the HA was cancelled or not?

 

[infomon]

No, to the very best of my knowledge you can't B-reverse the Homing Attack; it's a turnaround-B instead. Or maybe I have those two terms mixed up, but it's one not the other lol, so you have to pick the direction before you hit B. And hence, "cancelling" the HA won't matter.

It'd look really weird if you could change the HA direction after it starts; you'd be spinning in one direction, and then instantly spinning the other direction, lol.

... then again, Squirtle B-reversing his up-B looks really dumb, so I wouldn't put it past Sakurai >.>

 

[Chis]

Are we done with the spring yet?

 

[infomon]

Spring is awesome because you can still wall-jump and footstool after it.

Sonic 4 ridiculous-recovery tier!

 

[ROOOOY!]

No one talked about the spring really.
Everyone was busy attention ****** Homing Attack which is piss poor lol.

Ehh, I'll add bits to Homing Attack and do the spring write up tomorrow. At 2AM and I've been doing coursework all evening I'm too tired to now.

A little talk on invincy frames and ledge grabbable thingie for spring would be nice for when I come back.

Or you could start D-throw.

Or talk about Homing Attack more =_=

 

[Kinzer]

We should talk about the pummel attack while we're at throws.

 

[Tenki]

oh yeah, don't ever try to use homing attack to recover against me, especially if I'm using Sonic.

If I'm by the edge, I can either drag you below the stage, or pull you further away from the stage, then proceed to send you too far to spring back or actually kill you.

>_>

----------

D-throw.

I DI up.

<_<

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm adding a little bit about pummels too.
Doesn't really need discussion. There's nothing really Sonic specific about them. They're just there for damage racking and unstaling **** for everyone.
Though I did read somewhere Sonic's damage:speed ratio on his pummels is second highest in game.
Behind Lucas I think.

-----------

D-throw.

I use U-throw.

 

[Napilopez]

D-throw.

I DI up.

<_<

I buffer a run, and do something >_>

Wait im not even sure if I can buffer a run from it. I think I can. But yea, all I know is that I can almost always follow up with something when people DI up against me :D

EDIT:

I believe Sonic has the third damage:speed ratio actually. Still, its one of the best.

<3 Dthrow.

If only it did more damage, like it looks like it should T-T

 

[Camalange]

Pummel refreshes moves.

 

[Tenki]

I buffer a run, and do something >_>

Wait im not even sure if I can buffer a run from it. I think I can. But yea, all I know is that I can almost always follow up with something when people DI up against me :D

EDIT:

I believe Sonic has the third damage:speed ratio actually. Still, its one of the best.

<3 Dthrow.

If only it did more damage, like it looks like it should T-T

D-throw has noticeable 'dead frames' after the opponent gets thrown. :/
Double jump as soon as you start to move would 'reset'/change the situation.

If you wanna bring up stuff about pummels anything more than 'move refresh, damage! =D', pummels force ground release. Reading your opponent after a ground release is valuable

 

[infomon]

Pummel refreshes moves.

I think if you pummel too quickly, consecutive hits can count as the same move and thus won't stale. At least with some characters, but I think I've observed this with Sonic.

If you want fast-as-possible pummeling (for damage), is it best to just mash the button as fast as possible, or is there a special timing for it?

 

[Tenki]

hit as his feet start to touch the ground.

 

[Kinzer]

I love rythem.

Anyway I happen to notice that for about every 30% the opponent goes up, it allows time for one more pummel, with 0-30 only allowing one before they either break off the or you initial a throw.

Anyway for D-throw itself... how many people besides Tenki actually know to DI up from it? >.> I swear nobody really bothers with the DI as much as they do with the tech, and either way D-throw is such a good move to follow-up from.

 

[Napilopez]

D-throw has noticeable 'dead frames' after the opponent gets thrown. :/
Double jump as soon as you start to move would 'reset'/change the situation.

I know XD. Thing is, if I expect my opponent to double jump, I know what to do from there. If they DI up, unless its a character with uber crazy air movement, I think its pretty easy to just follow up with a uair or bair. There are dead frames, but its not so tremendously high that you can't do anything from it. Or at least I think so, can't test anything now D:

 

[Tenki]

Oh, I forgot who was doing this, but I noticed something that throws me off alot more than upward DI. Which was how I ended up getting myself D-throw spiked in a ditto (lol).

DI down/towards Sonic then tech asap. lol

 

[Camalange]

I think if you pummel too quickly, consecutive hits can count as the same move and thus won't stale. At least with some characters, but I think I've observed this with Sonic.

?
Wait what?
If you use a pummel, it unstales your other moves, how would doing it too fast change anything? The pummel might get (more stale?) but everything else just start to go back to normal, right? (Is it possible for pummels to stale)? Maybe I'm reading this whole post wrong >_>

If you want fast-as-possible pummeling (for damage), is it best to just mash the button as fast as possible, or is there a special timing for it?

Yeah there's a timing. Read Tenki's post.

 

[infomon]

?
Wait what?
If you use a pummel, it unstales your other moves, how would doing it too fast change anything? The pummel might get (more stale?) but everything else just start to go back to normal, right? (Is it possible for pummels to stale)? Maybe I'm reading this whole post wrong >_>

Two pummels can count as the same pummel; so even though you pummeled two or three times, your other moves are only unstale by a single pummel. I think you can tell in training mode, if you pummel fast enough that it counts on the "combo meter", then stale moves thinks it's just one attack.

 

[Camalange]

Oooh, okay. Thanks for the clear up.

 

[infomon]

Hmm, another thing I just found out about the Spring.... although I usually fastfall after a Spring, I didn't realize just how awesome/bizarre it is if you get the timing perfect. Normally Sonic's height decelerates to a stop, then accelerates down to his fall speed. But fastfalling puts you instantly at your fastest descent speed. So if you fastfall right at the peak of your Spring, it actually feels really nice, you boost down a lot faster than expected.

Not only that, but you can fastfall during an aerial. So try a Spring > Uair timed well so the peak of your height (and hence your fastfall) comes in-between the kicks. It's pretty nice. I'm going to start using this fastfall-weirdness when I'm "chasing" ppl off the top.

 

[Napilopez]

Not only that, but you can fastfall during an aerial. So try a Spring > Uair timed well so the peak of your height (and hence your fastfall) comes in-between the kicks. It's pretty nice. I'm going to start using this fastfall-weirdness when I'm "chasing" ppl off the top.

Yes, this is very useful when trying to KO peeps off the top. Fastfall during the Uair if you're too high. Also, and more importantly, its a great spacing tool for the second hit of the Uair. Although it can beat out pretty much everything above it, it wont do anything if the hitbox hasnt come out yet. So Ill often FF my uairs so that im only connecting with the tip of the second hit. Tis quite awesomeified.

 

[infomon]

Exaaaactly....

Also, are you the one who mentioned that Uair allows you to "rise" (sorta) in the air, to help you recovery a teensy bit better? I've started doing this now lol, like to land on thin platforms, you can kinda tell that it helps sometimes, although it's pretty rare, it's kinda neat.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oh.
I'm doing spring write-up now at like 2am so I can't remember, but you know the spring at a low percent just sends them into hitstun, but at a higher percent actually makes them fall down and be susceptable to a jab lock?
Has anyone got specific/anywhere near close percents?
k thx.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Screw it I don't care.
I'm doing d-throw tomorrow night.

Talk about fthrow.

 

[SothE700k]

F-throw by far the worst of his throws. Due to not having enough hitstun, the enemy can just strike you as you leap up. Unless there's some rare occasion that kicking them up high and at an angle will screw the opponent up and knock him into an obstacle for a possible KO or set up to one, avoid this move at all costs. Stick to d,b, and u throw.

 

[Kinzer]

Roy you mistyped down as "fown" in the 4th paragraph and you added an extra "the" in the 8th paragraph for Spring.

Also you should add that Spring is nice against people with tethers, like Zero Suit and Power Suit Samus, it will hit them right out of their Tether and send them further from the ledge.

As for F-throw, it really is the worst of his throws, I can think of this only being used as a switch-up from another throw to mess with your opponents, or to just knock them right into a hazard.

 

[Tenki]

Oh.
I'm doing spring write-up now at like 2am so I can't remember, but you know the spring at a low percent just sends them into hitstun, but at a higher percent actually makes them fall down and be susceptable to a jab lock?
Has anyone got specific/anywhere near close percents?
k thx.

It's backwards.

For most characters, less than 30% will be jablockmode, and higher will send them into that weird 'hitstun slide' like after Dedede's D-throw.


F-throw is Sonic's fastest throw. DI mixups, it's nice. I believe if your opponent DIs towards you and you F-throw, it sends about as high as U-throw would have if your opponent had 20% less damage (I'm not sure of the 'exact' or better approximations, but I think that's what it was like). So if you U-throw at 90%, then a F-throw at 110% would send just as high if your opponent DI's towards you.