Anther
Smash Champion
The counter to Shiek's Chain: A good ole *****slapping.
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Sonic vs Sheik
- Thread starter ShadowLink84
- Start date
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Cookie if you get the reference Buzz.
No like Tenki said its perfectly on topic especfially considering the option is before you when you are using Sheik.I will say that I love fighting Sonic as Zelda, but that would probably lead to the wrong discussion for this topic.
Its one of the reasons I may pick up Sheik as a secondary.
Edit: I am not sure what method could be used to get past the chain without it being overly dangerous.
Just strike lylat cruise and BF.
The other stages can be dealt with more easily IMO.
Anther
Smash Champion
Jump over her and play a guessing game. She's not even whipping that thing around that hard.. wtf..
Iwan
Smash Ace
Ummmm.......
sheik's a ninja..................yea..........
I think we know 100:0 in sheik's favor......SHES A NINJA MUTHA F***A.
haha...
on a serious note, most everything has been mentioned. Needles and Chain give sheik a fairly big advantage in the match up.
sheik's a ninja..................yea..........
I think we know 100:0 in sheik's favor......SHES A NINJA MUTHA F***A.
haha...
on a serious note, most everything has been mentioned. Needles and Chain give sheik a fairly big advantage in the match up.
On certain levels though.
If there's no platform above Sheik, chain isn't really a problem at all.
Needles are only really good for disrupting Sonic's attack if he does things like spindash approaches (which IMO should only be used for punishment, or online [lol], regardless of character), early dash attacks, or some other thing where he can't just shield.
If there's no platform above Sheik, chain isn't really a problem at all.
Needles are only really good for disrupting Sonic's attack if he does things like spindash approaches (which IMO should only be used for punishment, or online [lol], regardless of character), early dash attacks, or some other thing where he can't just shield.
East
Crappy Imitation
Wow, you guys have read into this deep. It's a lot different than the way I think about the match up.
"I do this thing against sonic where I just ignore his hit-boxes, and it seems to work pretty well. I act like he’s a moving target that doesn’t attack, and his moves always lose."
Just kidding, but points if you know where it's from.
I'd at least put this in 65:35 in sheik's favor just because she is able to limit sonics approaches via needle and chain. Once your approaches have been narrowed down, the enemy has a better chance of guessing which one you'll make against them.
"I do this thing against sonic where I just ignore his hit-boxes, and it seems to work pretty well. I act like he’s a moving target that doesn’t attack, and his moves always lose."
Just kidding, but points if you know where it's from.
I'd at least put this in 65:35 in sheik's favor just because she is able to limit sonics approaches via needle and chain. Once your approaches have been narrowed down, the enemy has a better chance of guessing which one you'll make against them.
^lol of course.
I forgot which thread I mentioned this (lol it's going on in 3 threads =__=)
but the chain thing is only a significant factor in stages with non-moving overhead platforms. It's really easy to break if you don't have anything to protect you from above.
I forgot which thread I mentioned this (lol it's going on in 3 threads =__=)
but the chain thing is only a significant factor in stages with non-moving overhead platforms. It's really easy to break if you don't have anything to protect you from above.
Browny
Smash Hater
Anyone taking any consideration how hard it is to KO sonic? Sonic is extremely difficult to land a KO move on, especially ground attacks and when sheik is one of the worst killers in the game... :/
they both have weakness in KO'ing but sheiks is made that much more worse against a character who can stay quite safe on the ground if they dont use laggy moves vs anyone without massive disjointed tilts, which should never be used anyway (like utilt and usmash)
they both have weakness in KO'ing but sheiks is made that much more worse against a character who can stay quite safe on the ground if they dont use laggy moves vs anyone without massive disjointed tilts, which should never be used anyway (like utilt and usmash)
I like how ppl pretend that move doesn't exist. Its way too good.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
The issue being is that we need to get things ordered and discuss Sheik solely then Zelda solely and then consider them together so as to keep things ordered and maintain them as clear.
utilt kills at higher percents than Snake's utilt. not by much but every percent helps against Zelda T_T.
So anyone agree on discussing Sheik first and then Zelda and then both of them?
Palpi
Smash Hero
Both of them would seem necesary because during a match there is a decent chance to fight both of them.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I know but it would allow things to be more ordered and allow us to look over everything.
Kinzer
Mammy
Unfortunately you are wrong there, Sonic can easily gimp your Tether via Spring and edgeHOGGING! You're better off using the other method, I forget what it is called.Shiek won't get gimps but neither will Sonic which means high percentage kills, with in my experience Shiek killing before Sonic, not to mention racking quicker.
But all this is unimportant, because I can just stand there and D Tilt
Also we don't want to consider DTilt until later, we all know Sonic loses out in every matchup because everybody has a DTilt, even Mario's DTilt is useable on Sonic (feeling ******** yet False SBR?)
Anther, he's becoming a Steakling.
We already discussed Zelda by herself previously, we only need worry about Sheik alone AND THEN the both of them combined.
This is Kinzer here, coming from his ban.
Time to go see the other threads... -_-
Browny
Smash Hater
cant believe i have to post here again...
how do you figure shiek KO's earlier than sonic, and racks up damage faster. the ftilt lock doesnt go to hig %'s at all, sonic can match that damage with 2 uthrows at 0% anyway since sheik is a fast faller. his aerials can do above average damage (14 fair and 13 bair) and shiek will take damage trying to get back on the stage, a lot more than she will be able to against sonics recovery. and KO's earlier... do yourself a favour and actually test it ffs. the whole 'sonic cant ko till 150%+' is so retardedly old, and were talking about a lightweight here, with few, low-power KO moves herself. seriously wtf
how do you figure shiek KO's earlier than sonic, and racks up damage faster. the ftilt lock doesnt go to hig %'s at all, sonic can match that damage with 2 uthrows at 0% anyway since sheik is a fast faller. his aerials can do above average damage (14 fair and 13 bair) and shiek will take damage trying to get back on the stage, a lot more than she will be able to against sonics recovery. and KO's earlier... do yourself a favour and actually test it ffs. the whole 'sonic cant ko till 150%+' is so retardedly old, and were talking about a lightweight here, with few, low-power KO moves herself. seriously wtf
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Kinzer how long ago did we discuss the Zelda matchup? I think this would allow us to also get updated on anything new concerning her.
Kinzer
Mammy
Because Sheiks won't be letting themselves open for too long when it comes to landing a FSmash...
K.I.D. was right on some things, let's not get all pissy because somebody is wrong.
Edit, Uh. SL, let me get back to you...
Okay, Sheik is no. 23 on our matchup guide, Zelda was 16th... so unless they came up with some kind of fancy new tech for Zelda, I highly doubt we have to relook at it. It seems fine for now, the only thing that could be added for/from Zelda's persepective was if they got a new mainer and they want to establish their opinion or something.
K.I.D. was right on some things, let's not get all pissy because somebody is wrong.
Edit, Uh. SL, let me get back to you...
Okay, Sheik is no. 23 on our matchup guide, Zelda was 16th... so unless they came up with some kind of fancy new tech for Zelda, I highly doubt we have to relook at it. It seems fine for now, the only thing that could be added for/from Zelda's persepective was if they got a new mainer and they want to establish their opinion or something.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I could have sworn we did Zelda a bit longer than that @_@
Kinzer
Mammy
Eh, time either flies or doesn't but yeah... no new tech/strad/etc., no new discussion for that point of view, we need to stay efficient and stuff.
So here's my thought, I think Spring > Sheik's FTilt lock.
Discuss.
So here's my thought, I think Spring > Sheik's FTilt lock.
Discuss.
East
Crappy Imitation
Pick One.
Now with that out of the way, The sheik match-up thread has only stats for the better match-up whether it be zelda, sheik, or both. To discuss Zelda and Sheik separately doesn't really seem like a good idea. Ankoku made an amazing point when he said
... ... ...
Now with that out of the way, The sheik match-up thread has only stats for the better match-up whether it be zelda, sheik, or both. To discuss Zelda and Sheik separately doesn't really seem like a good idea. Ankoku made an amazing point when he said
We're playing to win here, so there's no point in discussing the match-up that doesn't support that ideology.Ankoku said:
Kinzer
Mammy
Spring 1, FTilt 0, because a series of periods explain nothing.
Let's get it on!
Also we want to discuss the two on their own, because maybe a person has mastered one character, but hasn't looked into the other one (yes I know it's not strategic, bare with me), and not only that, but we need to know specifically how Sonic does against one character, putting them both into consideration will tell us what to expect in the heart of war.
I can't test atm, but I think Sonic is stuck in F-tilt for a bit as long as it's buffered correctly. But you can SDI down/away (is it?) and try to get to the floor to shield.
DI tips on that would be nice lol.
I've seen quite a few good players who'd rather go Sheik-->Zelda (majority Sheik, Zelda for kills) against Sonic.
Fewer than that, I've seen a couple of Sheik-only players, but of the three, they did the worst.
Anyway, Sonic vs Sheik is one of the matchups where you'd probably spend alot more time in Sheik form than Zelda, so it'd be important for us to cover the fighting/damaging-until-100% part of the matchup (Sheik vs Sonic). We've already discussed an 'all-Zelda' matchup, and I guess that kind of covers what to expect closer towards 100%.
DI tips on that would be nice lol.
I've met some people who would rather go all Zelda against Sonic.
I've seen quite a few good players who'd rather go Sheik-->Zelda (majority Sheik, Zelda for kills) against Sonic.
Fewer than that, I've seen a couple of Sheik-only players, but of the three, they did the worst.
Anyway, Sonic vs Sheik is one of the matchups where you'd probably spend alot more time in Sheik form than Zelda, so it'd be important for us to cover the fighting/damaging-until-100% part of the matchup (Sheik vs Sonic). We've already discussed an 'all-Zelda' matchup, and I guess that kind of covers what to expect closer towards 100%.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
By the time you could DI away i think Sheik would have landed a Usmash.
well, the point of trying to DI down is to get to the point where you can shield, not to actually get out of it.
But it's only what I hear. I may have done it online, but you can almost never tell if you actually pulled it off or if they flubbed up the buffer due to input lag.
But it's only what I hear. I may have done it online, but you can almost never tell if you actually pulled it off or if they flubbed up the buffer due to input lag.
East
Crappy Imitation
DI'ing down is not the correct way to get out of it. Your best bet is to DI toward Sheik [I know it sounds a little unorthodox], because the ftilt pushes her forward a little bit. The only problem with this is that in trying to get out of it, you run the risk of possibly being tipper upsmashed or upsmashed in general.
Villi
Smash Lord
Sonic can up b out of the ftilt lock, but Sheik should at least be able to get a couple in before it happens. Easiest way out for Sonic is up -- DI'ing into the ground to shield is also a possibility -- but Sheik should finish it before you can escape, regardless.
From far away, Sheik can end the majority of spin dash mind games with needles. Sonic is forced to keep close spacing with Sheik where tilts and quick aerials give her the advantage. Zelda can be camped, but she can also make herself difficult to approach (... already covered) -- Sheik should be doing all the damage racking so that Zelda doesn't have to do any extra work.
From far away, Sheik can end the majority of spin dash mind games with needles. Sonic is forced to keep close spacing with Sheik where tilts and quick aerials give her the advantage. Zelda can be camped, but she can also make herself difficult to approach (... already covered) -- Sheik should be doing all the damage racking so that Zelda doesn't have to do any extra work.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
btw. any sheik that has any skill should beat the best sonic.
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
whys that? What makes the match up impossible for sonic?
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Um needles... he's Sonic... um easy 2 grab... out-ranged and prioritized and out-aerialed by Sheik Oh did I mention that he's Sonic? And by by the way, the taunt "You're too slow" does not apply to Sheik xD
Oh and if you wanna prove it, ship me your best Sonic player via mail. NC State.
Kinzer
Mammy
No, Sonic - Shiek is NOT = DK - D3.
GTFO Sonic boards' matchup export thread.
Yeah okay but no seriously, flaming side, it's not as bad as it could seem, it's not as if one miSteak = a 1 stock loss, it's just really hard.
GTFO Sonic boards' matchup export thread.
Yeah okay but no seriously, flaming side, it's not as bad as it could seem, it's not as if one miSteak = a 1 stock loss, it's just really hard.
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
Sonic is not easy to grab.
Out ranged? Not really.
You're too slow doesn't apply? lol gtfo. lrn2basic
KillerSOS
Smash Champion
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
impossible? WTF?
How do you expect to kill Sonic? Shiek is a gimper. Sonic is teh_recovery.
You cant needle spam Sonic. He's too fast. You'll get 1-2 needles at the most. If you even think about charging, Sonic is already right next to you.
Sonic can spring out of Sheik's tilt lock.
Sonic is disjointed with his bair and uair. I'm not sure about Sheik's aerials.
How do you expect to kill Sonic? Shiek is a gimper. Sonic is teh_recovery.
You cant needle spam Sonic. He's too fast. You'll get 1-2 needles at the most. If you even think about charging, Sonic is already right next to you.
Sonic can spring out of Sheik's tilt lock.
Sonic is disjointed with his bair and uair. I'm not sure about Sheik's aerials.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
HM YOU THINK SHEIK RELIES ONLY UPON FTILT. HAH.?? Although it may get him out of a complete lock, you, my friend, have no chance then. Seriously. Us skilled Sheiks don't rely upon a tilt "lock" we can combo and perform mix-ups with it. Play a larger variety of skilled* people before you say stuff like that.
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
You should play some experienced Sonic players as well.
Just requoting so my points dont go unnoticed.
I don't play sonic or play many others either. But I don't know needles only are going to really shut sonic down on large flat stages.
I know sonic can gimp very very well with fair and bair and shiek's recovery isn't the best.
I don't know about priority but ftilt definitely out ranges sheiks stuff dtilt isn't horrible either.
If sonic can get sheik into the air she is in a bad spot uair and fair pose a huge problem up there and his ground speed lets him close distance fast while you are trying to get back down to the ground.
Now don't get me wrong, this match is definitely in shieks favor , it is hard for sonic but far from impossible. A smart sonic who picks and choses his oppertunities could definitely win a match.
I know sonic can gimp very very well with fair and bair and shiek's recovery isn't the best.
I don't know about priority but ftilt definitely out ranges sheiks stuff dtilt isn't horrible either.
If sonic can get sheik into the air she is in a bad spot uair and fair pose a huge problem up there and his ground speed lets him close distance fast while you are trying to get back down to the ground.
Now don't get me wrong, this match is definitely in shieks favor , it is hard for sonic but far from impossible. A smart sonic who picks and choses his oppertunities could definitely win a match.
Flamingo's such an amazing Sheik player that doesn't rely on tilt locks or other actually reliable things. Just look at all the tournament winnings he has. Oh wait.