1. Olimar DACUS or WAC upsmash or more
It actually does not punish as much stuff as Soics dash alone. It doesn't go the same distance.
3. TL boomerang and possibly hookshot (not positive on that one, it may or may not have transcendent priority aka slash2 hittype)
Boomerang yes, hookshot?? o.
It does not go as far as Sonics dash would in the same amount of time.
(less than 15 frames 1/4th of FD).
4. I nerfed MK hard enough where this option wouldn't be safe.
I am usure what this part was referring to sorry it got lost I think
You also missed the other half of my post after i edited it in seeing your post right before mine.
I editted it.
My point is that sonic is bait and punish as a character. Those other characters can do it, but their gameplay does not revolve around it.
Enough arguing outside characters though in this thread. Just please dear god stop refering to bait and punish so much. Can people just discuss whats on the table right now or people will see 0 changes to sonic lol
Well the bait and punish thing is to refer to sonics gameplay
A Toyota truck and a Mercedes Benz are both cars, and both build upon the basic foundation of what makes a car, but there are still plenty of differences between them in the way they were designed.
Except that both of those cars are designed for different purposes.
A mercedes benz does not have the power to tow like the toyota truck would.
or does the toyota have the ability to race.
Their differences created a different purpose.
(I assumed a racing version of the emrcedez apologies if I made an error)
For brawl and Brawl+. i spite of the differences between them, the basic goal of the game as wel as the purpose remained the same.
Sakurai personally balanced this game, so it's quite fair to call it sakurai's fault.
not really. He did not catch Snakes Utilt did he?
I am quite sure that was far from intentional.
And now you're beginning to make a bit more sense.
Clarification is a good thing.
So you're talking about how the moves are actually used in vb, rather than the way they were intended by their designer. Fair enough. Although brawl+ has drastically changed how many characters are played, already, making previously useless moves useful and other moves that were previously essential less so, and this is just based off of the physics changes that are applied to everyone.
Not realy, in spite of the changes Sonics gameplay remained unchanged (if we ignore the buffs).
In spite of losing his cancels he still retained the same functions.
I am quite sure this is true for several other characters in terms of gameplay.
Also, is that still true about the dthrow even after the run speed increase? About not being able to followup unless they tech toward.
Standing tech? Not 100% sure, I think it can still be done.
moving away tech. Positive about it.
They can always avoid it entirely by DIing up and away though and avoiding the tech chase.
Punishing something can be done by grabbing. Grabbing would lead to dthrow which would lead to techchasing. Bait and punishment? Yeah. But the punishment is in the form of techchasing, rather than combos. One throw - one move - is all it takes to have a strong techchasing game. Look at falcon - most people label him primarily as a combo character, but his dthrow and dair create for a strong techchasing game as well, which is still a key part of his character.
he difference betwee those moevs and Sonics is that, they actually lead into a tech chase.
They aren't avoidable once they have been performed. You can't avoid getting tech chased by Diing. (well except for Dair at higher eprcents.)
nor did those moves require editing.
For Sonic, All he has is Dthrow which does not even set up for a tech chase even when it was teched 9except when moving towards).
Or the Dthrow could be DI'ed and reset things to a neural position.
Though I feel you are talking about Brawl+ i which case the Dthrow tech chase is still avoidable with proper DI. Or you can tech it in front of Sonic (which is easier now) and just avoid the chase entirely.
So its still not tech chasing and none of his other moves are techchasing unless edited.
So basically what just happened was "I'm right" "No, I'm right" "I'm right" "No, I'm right," as nothing really just got done.
Pretty much.
I kept using the same argument because it was the same argument I was countering and didn't feel like rehashing the whole thing again each time.
True.
The reason it looks like I'm telling you all how to play your own character is because you're looking at things in a very black and white manner. Characters are not (or at least should not be) linear. There are many things that go into making their playstyle. You can play a bait and punish game that uses techchasing as a form of punishment, or you can rely on small combos as your punishment game... or both. Sonic being able to techchase does not suddenly make him no longer a character that relies on bait and punish. If it does, then the usmash clearly needs more tweaks because it was made too good.
How is Sonic linear? he has many options when it comes to bait and punish without the Usmash spike.
He can still perform many different thing as punishment.
Adding in the Usmash just because you feel Sonic is linear is hardly any reason to add in the Usmash.
Look at melee Falcon. How many of his combos end with a knee?
Doesn't make him a linear character because he had so many options for achieving it.
This is the same for Sonic, he still has many options for gaining the desired result.
I kept reusing that argument to counter an argument you kept reusing.
Then do you feel it has changed?
You act as if you need to have mentioned something for me to present something as an argument on my own terms.
I cannot read your mind and understand as to why you mentioned character diversity in response to my argument unless you go into a bit more depth.
if you are referring to the character being unique, how is Sonic not unique?
How many characters revolve around bait and punish?
Let alone that every character will share one thing or another, what differentiates them is the degree to which they perform the actio.
hence why we see marth and MK being different frmo the cast in their gameplay.
yeah they can bait and punish like Sonic, just not to the same degree ad their gameplay doesnt revolve around it either.
You keep acting as if everything is black and white. As if a character can only be a bait and punish character or they can only be a techchaser. Although I do not doubt you're right about sonic's dthrow, I think you're really looking at the matter in the wrong way.
No hardly. I do not believe they can only be one thing r the other.
Melee Falcon employed bait and punish as well as tech chasing. The thing is that his moves were also bit for it too.
He had his Dair, Dthrow and several other moves.
For Sonic, this is just not the case.
He ist like Falcon in which he has tech chasing as a repertoire.
How long are you going to keep dragging this on for? There's a very large difference between a unique buff that breaks a character and one that does not. Stop acting like we don't care about character balance because we do.
Depeds on my mood. j/k.
The reasno I keep dragging it on is because the reasons just dont seem to fit.
if Sonic is bait and punish and his options certainly prevent him from tech chasing, why add tech chasing when it isn't a part of his character context.
I'll leave out the character balance because its wrong on my part.
Give me a few moments.
Edit: Whoops sorry about that my computer tends to save what I copy and paste and then spits them out from newly copied to latest copied. I placed your name by accident.
Edit2: I fixed the errors. (I hope) Please point out if I missed any errors or made new ones @_@
