iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Wow, this just died, how many ppl actually got to test the -2 frames Bair start up code?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Sonic+ ~UPDATED OP 11/15/09~
- Thread starter Xzax Kasrani
- Start date
zxeon
Smash Lord
Is everyone done *****ing? I think we can Fix Sonic now.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Depends what your perception of fixing him is.
Arkaether
Smash Ace
And good luck getting everybody to agree on that.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Can we be less secretive here?
Arkaether
Smash Ace
Secretive? "That" was referring to different peoples' perceptions of fixing Sonic.
megajosh2
Smash Cadet
This thread was horrendous to read, but when I started I just couldn't stop. Lol.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
By that I'm guessing we are referring to:
~Usmash Spike
~Bair -2 Frames Start Up
If that is the case I am down, yet I want to tweak with the spike degrees a little as soon as I find out how.
~Usmash Spike
~Bair -2 Frames Start Up
If that is the case I am down, yet I want to tweak with the spike degrees a little as soon as I find out how.
zxeon
Smash Lord
I'd like to see those changes as well.
I will agree with that, iSpiN.
So we've come to a compromise now, yes? Great.
Maybe we should start discussing metagame now finally? xD
So we've come to a compromise now, yes? Great.
Maybe we should start discussing metagame now finally? xD
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
No one needs to agree on anything. By pure logic, Sonic kind of deserves to be awesome. Usmash spikes are pretty awesome. The backroom will do what is best for the game, and does not need permission to do so.
Also, I posted a few videos: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7414901&postcount=66
Also, I posted a few videos: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7414901&postcount=66
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Community project means doing what is best for the community, whether they like it or not.
Don't question my logic.
Debatable definition at best, but I'll roll with it. xD
Metagame? Matchups? Thoughts? Anyone?
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Pokemon Stadium is pretty good for Sonic, my favorite neutral probably.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Wario Ware could possibly be his best, but PS2 is quite fun.
PancakePanda
Smash Cadet
Sonic can do a good job on Battlefield. Especially if the opponent is juggled from platform to platform. Not to mention of course the fact that it's also pretty easy to stage spike with his bair here.
The setup of dtilt and fair here works **** well.
....
..... Actually, that tends to work for me regardless of stage. Anything with tight sides fits it best though. WarioWare, anyone?
The setup of dtilt and fair here works **** well.
....
..... Actually, that tends to work for me regardless of stage. Anything with tight sides fits it best though. WarioWare, anyone?
yami_sora
Smash Journeyman
So do you think Sonic is actually viable now? His air game is better but he's still a little weak with his smashes if you ask me.
jalued
Smash Lord
i still feel sonic is too slow. he should be really hard to control, thats how sonic should feel lol
cobaltblue
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 455
Actually a speed up of his down b and over b wouldn't be too bad considering one of the complaints about them was that B+ physics make the moves useless. Although I'm not sure if the coders could do anything beyond start up fixes.
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Hitboxes can be increased, so at the very least it could have some decent priority over the aura.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
How about we up the hitbox for Nair? Its still a mediocre move that has very few uses other than landing the Nair due to lack of landing frames.
But on to the main course...
Still wondering about that Bair -2 frames of start up buff. I guess I'll try to come up with an argument by comparing Peach's Fair. Both Peach and Sonic lack kill moves. IIRC, Peach's Fair is stronger and comes out faster than Sonic's Bair. I think Peach's is around 10-12 frames and Sonic's Bair is 13. Sonic would be able to space more effectively and not be at such a disadvantaged as say Marth or MK. Thoughts?
But on to the main course...
Still wondering about that Bair -2 frames of start up buff. I guess I'll try to come up with an argument by comparing Peach's Fair. Both Peach and Sonic lack kill moves. IIRC, Peach's Fair is stronger and comes out faster than Sonic's Bair. I think Peach's is around 10-12 frames and Sonic's Bair is 13. Sonic would be able to space more effectively and not be at such a disadvantaged as say Marth or MK. Thoughts?
Sonic is viable.
His problems are similar to captain falcon's.
-Low priority
-No Projectiles
@Jalued: Why should Sonic be hard to control? People are already used to Sonic and his physics are perfectly fine. Making him hard to control is........why?
@iSpin: About Sonic's Bair, why not make it end sooner? Like DK's?
@Cytrs: It's fine. Almost all multi-hit moves are Easier to DI. Throws that kill? come on man, thats not cool. What wrong with pressure kills? It's all about following DI, if you miss then too bad.
His problems are similar to captain falcon's.
-Low priority
-No Projectiles
@Jalued: Why should Sonic be hard to control? People are already used to Sonic and his physics are perfectly fine. Making him hard to control is........why?
@iSpin: About Sonic's Bair, why not make it end sooner? Like DK's?
@Cytrs: It's fine. Almost all multi-hit moves are Easier to DI. Throws that kill? come on man, thats not cool. What wrong with pressure kills? It's all about following DI, if you miss then too bad.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Less end lag sounds a little weird to me. DK's Bair doesn't come out that slow though.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Woah now, thats not what I had in mind, lol.
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Don't forget Falcon's Dthrow Knee. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind giving Charizard a killing throw so long as he still needed the help.
I never have trouble killing with Sonic's disjointed Fsmash. I've found there are a lot more ways to set up for it now. Other then that, most my kills are from gimps and edgeguards.
Bair is really only showing itself helpful in combos and a few edgeguards. I really think if we sped up either its cooldown or startup, he still wouldn't be able to space with it even if he wanted to. Unless we make it like Diddy or Wolf's Bair, which we probably don't want, I don't think it needs any minor changes. It already has no landing lag anyways.
I thought it would be cool at first if Nair had a bigger hitbox just like the games, then of course toning down its power, but yeah like yingyay said its more of a slight finisher rather then an approach. Other approaches would probably still have better reward, like his disjointed Uair. I still think the Usmash spike should be his definitive anti-air reward, takes prediction because of its slow start-up time but is worth using if your opponent keeps throwing their aerials, in which most characters have aerials that Sonic doesn't have much answer to.
There are a lot of new situations Sonic has to adapt to now. I doubt he'll propel himself in the ranks as other characters pick up too. I predict hes only going to get tougher to use, but I do think hes viable.
I never have trouble killing with Sonic's disjointed Fsmash. I've found there are a lot more ways to set up for it now. Other then that, most my kills are from gimps and edgeguards.
Bair is really only showing itself helpful in combos and a few edgeguards. I really think if we sped up either its cooldown or startup, he still wouldn't be able to space with it even if he wanted to. Unless we make it like Diddy or Wolf's Bair, which we probably don't want, I don't think it needs any minor changes. It already has no landing lag anyways.
I thought it would be cool at first if Nair had a bigger hitbox just like the games, then of course toning down its power, but yeah like yingyay said its more of a slight finisher rather then an approach. Other approaches would probably still have better reward, like his disjointed Uair. I still think the Usmash spike should be his definitive anti-air reward, takes prediction because of its slow start-up time but is worth using if your opponent keeps throwing their aerials, in which most characters have aerials that Sonic doesn't have much answer to.
There are a lot of new situations Sonic has to adapt to now. I doubt he'll propel himself in the ranks as other characters pick up too. I predict hes only going to get tougher to use, but I do think hes viable.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
So... Sonic may not be no where near the best but he's viable?... Thats an interesting way to put it. <.<;
Blank, if you tried the Bair -2 frames start up you would change your mind. I have already tested it and its golden.
Blank, if you tried the Bair -2 frames start up you would change your mind. I have already tested it and its golden.
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
There will always be a tier list, SOMEONE has to be at the bottom. Not that I'm saying it'll be Sonic, just saying.
It may be cool, I just don't think it'd make much a difference.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Every little thing will make a difference. Also, Bowsers UpB can go through anything Sonic has. Even after the SA is gone, he beat my Dair SS, my Fsmash, and Dsmash.. @_@
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Bowser's up B doesn't have SA frames, it has INVINCIBILITY frames.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Thank you for correcting me. How many frames does it have good sir? Oh, and sorry for not knowing, no one has played Bowser up until this point.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
I found it: Invincible frames 1 – 5
Also, I am not sure why I have not posted this yet.
Bair -2 Frames Startup (shanus)
2F038064 3F800000
2F008064 40400000
Shanus distributed this code in the IRC about a month ago, since I'm rooting for this to be put in the beta and hopefully the final I might as well post it up.
Also, I am not sure why I have not posted this yet.
Bair -2 Frames Startup (shanus)
2F038064 3F800000
2F008064 40400000
Shanus distributed this code in the IRC about a month ago, since I'm rooting for this to be put in the beta and hopefully the final I might as well post it up.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I'm arguing for Sonic's upsmash spike to be put back in. It should have more ending lag than we had originally (what was I thinking? Jab resets on missed techs?!?! Bad idea)