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Sonic+ ~UPDATED OP 11/15/09~

Blank Mauser

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I see, so Zelda's Usmash was upped too I guess.

The problem with Sonic's Usmash is he can get much more momentum with it so getting it to link right at all positions is sort of hard. For now its just something Sonic mains will have to deal with. I'll increase the SDI multiplier to at least 0.35x.
 

Blank Mauser

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Alright, I've finished up most PSA Related changes. There were some difficulties however. Having not worked with PSA since beta 0.2 brought up some porting issues with nair's graphic(I had to solve this by using an older version) and I'm not sure whats wrong with the homing attack cancel. Shanus will have to look at it to see if I missed anything, but Homing Attack cancel works fine until it hits someone. Then it has a variety of weird effects like instantly canceling into Up-B or bouncing way too high, obviously not the desired effect.

So everything PSA-related except the ftilt, fthrow and homing attack cancel on hit/shield seem ready for testing if anyone wants to try them out.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PBT9G2S3

To cancel homing attack simply side-B or Down-B immediately after impact. As for Dair, you can cancel lag on it after 22 frames by airdodging, jumping, attacking etc. But if you don't you can keep the hitbox going for as long as you want afterwards. Its pretty spiffy.

I would work on frame speed changes but I need to prepare to go to NKv2 tomorrow and then I probably won't be back until Sunday. So hopefully DS or someone can get here and work out specifics for the frame speed changes before then.
 

Blank Mauser

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Yes, this is from a blank Sonic pac.

And really, its not everything yet. Just enough to fool around with for a while. Appreciate the thanks though.
 

yami_sora

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Yeah I know not to expect it to be complete or anything, but I'd love to be able to actually fool around with some of the ideas you've been working out. Once my roommate gets off the TV I'll be sure to fire it up and mess around for a bit to give you my thoughts.
 

leafgreen386

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As for the invulnerability, its honestly not that great. The disjointedness is its main use, but you'll rarely see the invincibility being taken advantage of, but if its really a big deal 6 frames seems fair.
Wolf's shine says hi. If a 3% damage move that almost never leads into anything else can be useful solely because of its invincibility, then there's no way you can argue that sonic's nair won't be used for its invincibility in the same way. You don't even have to press down while using the move like wolf does, so you avoid the suicide DI that comes with a mistimed shine. Sonic's nair invinc has comparable speed to an airdodge and actually has a hitbox, so of course people are going to use this move for its invincibility, and possibly solely for that reason. Escaping your opponent's attack and dealing damage>>>>escaping your opponent's attack and not dealing damage, especially when there's a positional advantage that comes with it. You're greatly underestimating players' ability to time a counterattack.
 

Humpy Thrashabout

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I never played Sonic that much in vBrawl, but I kind of like him in Brawl+. I'm having trouble understanding down-B vs. side-B. Is it all the same as in vBrawl? I didn't want to read through Sonic boards if it wasn't going to be useful.
 

cobaltblue

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I never played Sonic that much in vBrawl, but I kind of like him in Brawl+. I'm having trouble understanding down-B vs. side-B. Is it all the same as in vBrawl? I didn't want to read through Sonic boards if it wasn't going to be useful.
The move isn't the same in VB at all. I'd suggest reading the thread that goes into it.

However for a brief summury from what I remember.

Side-B has invincibility on start up and can cut through most projectiles.
Down-B can be jumped out of from the ground using the c-stick without wasting your second jump.

I forget the more intercate details but I do know a lot of the techs are useless that go along with it in B+ now.
 

CountKaiser

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What if the invulnerability for nair were only on the strongest hitbox itself? That lasts for only 2 frames, right?
 

Blank Mauser

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Wolf's shine says hi. If a 3% damage move that almost never leads into anything else can be useful solely because of its invincibility, then there's no way you can argue that sonic's nair won't be used for its invincibility in the same way. You don't even have to press down while using the move like wolf does, so you avoid the suicide DI that comes with a mistimed shine. Sonic's nair invinc has comparable speed to an airdodge and actually has a hitbox, so of course people are going to use this move for its invincibility, and possibly solely for that reason. Escaping your opponent's attack and dealing damage>>>>escaping your opponent's attack and not dealing damage, especially when there's a positional advantage that comes with it. You're greatly underestimating players' ability to time a counterattack.
I actually don't see Wolf's shine used in that way, at least not solely because its invincibility. Really though, it has much more range and comes out faster. The hitbox/invuln for Sonic's Nair actually may not come out until frame 5, and the pac I posted only has it lasting 4 frames. The extended range isn't that great either. Its much harder in practice then theory. I don't see why people are worked up over it. Its a pretty gutsy move if you ask me. Wolf's shine at least has range to keep them away.

Most the times people are going to attack before Sonic has the chance to use it, or just plain outspacing it and abusing nairs lag time and horrible range. Approaching will be its main use because of its disjointedness and lower landing lag, but even if it was used as a combo breaker whats the big deal? The opponent should know not to be overaggressive.
 

yami_sora

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Alright well I was finally able to try out the new Sonic file and overall I really like the changes that have been made. Prepare for a wall of text.

I know you said the HA wasn't finished yet but so far I really like the instant HA. It's very reminiscent of Sonic Adventure. I think there were a few cases where he'd spring after the hit but most of the time he just attacked. My question though is what you plan on doing with the angle of the attack. As of right now Sonic always just shoots down at about a 45 degree angle so you'd have to be above the person for the attack to connect. So really right now it's not a homing attack at all but more of a quick dash downwards. Is the attack going to aim for the back of your opponent again or is there a way to make it aim for a more reasonable spot?

I don't think you changed the ftilt to a killing sweetspot because I didn't seem to be doing much knockback with it still, which I think you mentioned as being unfinished anyways.

Side-B wasn't something I really tested too thoroughly either since no one was around at the time to just spam projectiles at me. I'm not sure if you added the i-frames at start up anyways but if you did I'll test it with one of my roommates later.

I really like the dair now. Being able to cancel it and change your momentum adds a lot of mix-up opportunity and saves you from any untimely deaths off stage.

The up-smash is great now too. Being able to tech chase or punish the lack thereof can lead to more great mix-ups and pressure. I did have a question though on how you think the move should be used on edge guard. Since it does spike now would an incorrect DI cause the character hit by the move to be sent to their death? Because I ran into that a couple times when I was testing it out. There were also cases where if Sonic was standing on the very edge and the opponent was right next to him the up smash would send them over and down to their deaths, tested without any DI. Of course I laughed maniacally every time it happened but I would think that a good DI would usually just make them crash back into the stage rather than get spiked to their death. Not that I mind the latter case happening of course. There also seems to be a magic percentage where where the final hit of the up-smash actually connects, which is where the spike is. I tested it on a couple different weight classes but would lighter characters like Jigglypuff be able to escape the move more easily? Especially considering you would often times be using the up-smash while Sonic still has a lot of horizontal momentum out of a dash or something. In short, would the move be easier to DI out of the last hit in that case and if so is there a way to make it harder to do so?

Lastly is the nair. I really like the new nair graphic to show how much bigger the hitbox is now. I know the idea was to make the move weaker but it's really weak now. I can't seem to find an appropriate followup for the move. Should it be used strictly as a combo breaker now or is there some other application I can't think of? It seems to be difficult to combo with after and there's certainly no change of it ever dealing a fatal blow. It's still an excellent way to get in and deal damage however. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the move has different hitboxes and maybe I'm just hitting with the later one.

Are there any other changes I should be testing out? I mean I know the windup and windown of a lot of his moves aren't implemented yet and I don't think his fair has the SDI multiplier in effect yet so that's fine for now, I just wanted to know if there were any other changes I should test.

Also I'm not sure if it's me or the file but the game crashed twice in the middle of the match. I'm not sure what caused it but it might have been while Sonic was turning around out of a dash. It's pretty inconsistent though, because I was running around a lot and out of the 8 or so matches I played it only happened twice. Might just be something you want to look into.

Overall though I think this is taking Sonic in a fantastic direction and I look forward to seeing the completed version. I know these changes are by no means final but at this rate Sonic just might be a viable character yet.
 

leafgreen386

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I know you said the HA wasn't finished yet but so far I really like the instant HA. It's very reminiscent of Sonic Adventure. I think there were a few cases where he'd spring after the hit but most of the time he just attacked. My question though is what you plan on doing with the angle of the attack. As of right now Sonic always just shoots down at about a 45 degree angle so you'd have to be above the person for the attack to connect. So really right now it's not a homing attack at all but more of a quick dash downwards. Is the attack going to aim for the back of your opponent again or is there a way to make it aim for a more reasonable spot?
With the instant HA, it's no longer going to be a homing attack. It'll just be an attack (lol), and there's no way around it.

The up-smash is great now too. Being able to tech chase or punish the lack thereof can lead to more great mix-ups and pressure. I did have a question though on how you think the move should be used on edge guard. Since it does spike now would an incorrect DI cause the character hit by the move to be sent to their death? Because I ran into that a couple times when I was testing it out. There were also cases where if Sonic was standing on the very edge and the opponent was right next to him the up smash would send them over and down to their deaths, tested without any DI. Of course I laughed maniacally every time it happened but I would think that a good DI would usually just make them crash back into the stage rather than get spiked to their death. Not that I mind the latter case happening of course. There also seems to be a magic percentage where where the final hit of the up-smash actually connects, which is where the spike is. I tested it on a couple different weight classes but would lighter characters like Jigglypuff be able to escape the move more easily? Especially considering you would often times be using the up-smash while Sonic still has a lot of horizontal momentum out of a dash or something. In short, would the move be easier to DI out of the last hit in that case and if so is there a way to make it harder to do so?
Yes, with bad DI you can kill people with it. That's just how the move will have to be. DIing in will prevent it from ever killing someone, though. As for a "magic percentage" where it connects... either blank is nub and left growth on the linking hits, or you're just imagining things. It's probably the latter, in which case it's not the weight of the character that's causing them to get trapped or escape, but rather, their fall speed.

Lastly is the nair. I really like the new nair graphic to show how much bigger the hitbox is now. I know the idea was to make the move weaker but it's really weak now. I can't seem to find an appropriate followup for the move. Should it be used strictly as a combo breaker now or is there some other application I can't think of? It seems to be difficult to combo with after and there's certainly no change of it ever dealing a fatal blow. It's still an excellent way to get in and deal damage however. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the move has different hitboxes and maybe I'm just hitting with the later one.
That sounds to me like you're hitting with one of the later hitboxes on the move and you've just gotten too used to sonic's brawl+ nair. The move has like three different hitboxes, and if you're not hitting with the strongest one (the first one), they're actually quite weak. The move should be difficult to combo off of, but if it's not dealing enough kb, it might end up not being very useful at all.

Also I'm not sure if it's me or the file but the game crashed twice in the middle of the match. I'm not sure what caused it but it might have been while Sonic was turning around out of a dash. It's pretty inconsistent though, because I was running around a lot and out of the 8 or so matches I played it only happened twice. Might just be something you want to look into.
It's possible that blank made too many modifications to the pac, although I don't see how. If not, then there's actually something wrong with the way something is coded that needs to be fixed.

Blank Mauser said:
I actually don't see Wolf's shine used in that way, at least not solely because its invincibility. Really though, it has much more range and comes out faster. The hitbox/invuln for Sonic's Nair actually may not come out until frame 5, and the pac I posted only has it lasting 4 frames. The extended range isn't that great either. Its much harder in practice then theory. I don't see why people are worked up over it. Its a pretty gutsy move if you ask me. Wolf's shine at least has range to keep them away.

Most the times people are going to attack before Sonic has the chance to use it, or just plain outspacing it and abusing nairs lag time and horrible range. Approaching will be its main use because of its disjointedness and lower landing lag, but even if it was used as a combo breaker whats the big deal? The opponent should know not to be overaggressive.
I don't know how you could not see wolf's shine being used solely for its invincibility like that; it's an incredible string breaker. The nair you were talking about (invinc starting frame 4) would be only one frame slower than wolf's current shine (which is still very useful even after the invinc got pushed back 2 frames from vbrawl), and at size 12 it would actually have a bigger vertical hitbox than wolf's shine (wolf's shine is made up of two size 10 hitboxes iirc). And what's the big deal with it being a combo breaker? Nothing. What's the big deal with it being a combo breaker that could kill or combo? A very big one. This is the reason people hated marth's old upB; its invincibility let it break strings and kill while doing it. If sonic's nair is made into a string breaker, it should not be given either the ability to kill or to combo.

As for the nair you're proposing now... that's a different story. Invinc not starting until frame 5 and only lasting four frames wouldn't be very useful as a combo breaker except in some very specific situations, since the timing would be much tighter. It'd only really be useful for breaking through very obvious attacks.
 

shanus

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+1 supporting leaf that strong hitbox nair + invuln for that long = wtf move
 

Blank Mauser

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As I said, it won't be killing for a while, and even if it was that reliable of a killer It'd only be in the center. By the time Sonic can get that close I don't think invincibility makes a difference.

As for combo'ing, its going to get them into the air, and Sonic will have low lag. Most likely starting a techchase on FF'ers but otherwise I don't see many particular guaranteed strings so far.

The point is, we can compromise here. Just because its a string breaker doesn't mean that should be its sole use, especially considering its not a very good one. The one I proposed comes out at the same time as Marth's counter (From what I've observed in PSA), and lasts 4 frames. I'm thinking upping it to 6 frames and making the disjointed hitbox have low BKB and landing lag for some sort of decent setup at low percentages.

I'm not sure why the pac file is crashing, but when I ported to the new PSA the nair was most definitely causing it. For some reason it just had trouble with the external graphic file command. Maybe it has something to do with that. Anyways, if I can get help porting it into the new PSA it might solve the dilemma.
 

yami_sora

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That might be why it's crashing but the game never locked up while I was using the nair. Both times Sonic's feet were firmly planted on the ground. As for the HA, that's fine, but is that going to be the final angle Sonic moves in?

For the upsmash you could be right leaf, my boyfriend and I are gonna test it out now that he's here and I can try some stuff out against a real person and I'll see if what happens. But you're saying that all the hits to the nair should link all of the time, regardless of weight and horizontal momentum, right?
 

Humpy Thrashabout

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You said it was vB's spin moves were completely different than B+. How would looking at a vB thread about it be helpful?

I was only asking if it was the same in vB to see if that exact thread would be accurate for B+.
 

leafgreen386

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As I said, it won't be killing for a while, and even if it was that reliable of a killer It'd only be in the center. By the time Sonic can get that close I don't think invincibility makes a difference.

As for combo'ing, its going to get them into the air, and Sonic will have low lag. Most likely starting a techchase on FF'ers but otherwise I don't see many particular guaranteed strings so far.

The point is, we can compromise here. Just because its a string breaker doesn't mean that should be its sole use, especially considering its not a very good one. The one I proposed comes out at the same time as Marth's counter (From what I've observed in PSA), and lasts 4 frames. I'm thinking upping it to 6 frames and making the disjointed hitbox have low BKB and landing lag for some sort of decent setup at low percentages.

I'm not sure why the pac file is crashing, but when I ported to the new PSA the nair was most definitely causing it. For some reason it just had trouble with the external graphic file command. Maybe it has something to do with that. Anyways, if I can get help porting it into the new PSA it might solve the dilemma.
Like I said, a very short burst of invincibility isn't going to cause any problems. Essentially, all invincibility does when it's in very brief amounts is give a move infinite priority. Too much, though, and the move becomes a frustratingly good string breaker (unless the invinc happens later in the move or something). You really don't seem to understand how good it is to have a string breaker than deals double digits worth in damage. Greatly reducing the damage you take in a combo and also dealing damage back in the process is what makes string breakers such good moves. Oh, and they also shift the positional advantage to the character who executed the string breaker. Now, you're telling me that you want a move that is so good defensively to also be an offensive combo starter at the same time? Going back to wolf's shine, here. It can be used as a string breaker when high in the air. However, (in brawl+ at least) you're also able to sh shine -> bair with frame perfect timing, which is a true combo. Notice how they're completely different situations, though. In one, you're sh'ing toward your opponent; you're being aggressive, so there's higher potential damage. In the other, you're already in a compromised position because of your opponent, and the potential reward of not taking more damage is already far and away great enough that it doesn't need to do more than 3% damage to be useful. Just pick the function you want for the move: combo breaker, combo move, or kill move, and pick the stats according to that. If you give it too much invincibility, though, and also make it a combo or kill move, I can guarantee you that it won't pass through the rest of the WBR.

That might be why it's crashing but the game never locked up while I was using the nair. Both times Sonic's feet were firmly planted on the ground. As for the HA, that's fine, but is that going to be the final angle Sonic moves in?

For the upsmash you could be right leaf, my boyfriend and I are gonna test it out now that he's here and I can try some stuff out against a real person and I'll see if what happens. But you're saying that all the hits to the nair should link all of the time, regardless of weight and horizontal momentum, right?
Yes, that's probably gonna be the final angle sonic moves in on the HA.

And no, that's not what I'm saying on the usmash. Weight of the characters shouldn't matter at all, since unless blank was being a total nub when he made the move, the move won't have growth. However, both your horizontal momentum and their fall speed will play into whether or not they stay in the move. Using an If statement, it's probably possible to create two different sets of hitboxes that spawn depending on if sonic was running before the usmash or not, which would allow you to make it connect properly in both situations, since then you'd only really have to worry about making sure it works for all the different fall speeds of the characters in brawl+.
 

Perfect Chaos

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The only thing that's different between the two is how it starts out (in all versions of Brawl). Once it goes into the SDR phase, they become exactly the same.

Anyway, I finally had time to test out the .pac file after my mid-terms were over, and I'm liking the two new ways to get back to the ground quickly. Well, d-air isn't really "new", but with the IASA frames, it pretty much is, since it's now a more viable way to quickly get back to the ground. And if you charge either of the spin dashes right before landing out of d-air, you get your double jump back, so that's nice. As for the instant "Homing" Attack, I don't miss the homing at all. This just makes Sonic play much faster, which just fits his character more. D-air to HA is just funny... And for some reason, I love doing SDR»SDJ»HA»Spring. It just looks so awesome when you land that, since all of those hit in rapid succession within less than a second. :chuckle: And I like how the instant HA allows you to quickly get your double-jump back from a SDJ (or in any instance, in general). All in all, I just love how much more options Sonic has just with this d-air and HA. It makes him more versatile and much more unpredictable, but still needs the player to be technical in order to pull these things off effectively (since doing these things randomly without knowing what you're doing will likely give you an SD). It just makes him so amazing fast in the right hands, so I'm hoping that these two things will be included in the next official Sonic. (And hopefully, the glitchy stuff with the IASA on HA won't be in after Shanus takes a look at it, since the method that Shanus used for RC1's HA cancel doesn't have it.)
But the fact that you can spam rapid-fire homing attacks at the ground could be a potential problem. If this proves to be a problem, then is there a way to make HA not jump-cancel able when it hits the ground, and only so when it hits a player, while keeping the IASA into specials for both? But actually...that will get rid of most of the versatility for using it to hit the ground...so maybe add a delay of when you can use HA again after a jump-cancel from hitting the ground with HA (but I highly doubt that there's a way to have a criteria this precise :ohwell:). But one can just shield the HA, preventing Sonic from being able to jump-cancel it (since he never touched the ground in this case), in order to stop the current spammage and then punishing Sonic; with that, it will not likely be a problem, but who knows... But no matter what, the IASA d-air should be added to the next official Sonic. :)

As for a S3&K n-air that's weak versus the current strong n-air: I'm not sure which one I would like more. But if I had to choose, I would go with the former. I think it would give Sonic more options. And even if it's weak, you can take advantage of the invincibility frames and do a well-timed off-stage gimp with it, thus taking more skill and adding more depth to him than just mindlessly n-airing off stage. The only thing I'll miss if we do use the S3&K n-air is the ability to combo out of it, if we take that out to compensate for the invincibility. I would rather it have a smaller invincibility frame in order to keep the ability to combo out of it, but that's just me.
 

cobaltblue

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You said it was vB's spin moves were completely different than B+. How would looking at a vB thread about it be helpful?

I was only asking if it was the same in vB to see if that exact thread would be accurate for B+.
See the first sentence of chao's post. The only thing I meant by different between VB and B+ is the fact the usefulness declines due to the overall change in physics granting other character better ways to counter it or just making the moves redundant. Really its just a result of everyone being faster than their VB counter parts.

Hopefully I can find someone either online or off to try the new sonic changes. They really sound interesting.
 

yami_sora

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I did fool around with the up-smash more leaf and I think I see what happened. It was probably not connecting all the way if they were already in the air from something else. It might also break them out if Sonic has a lot of horizontal momentum, but I think I still got them in sometimes regardless, just not every single time.

The game crashed again when I was turning around and I have no idea why. It was weird because out of like 15 matches with Sonic against plenty of different characters it only happened once. Has anyone else had any problems with it?
 

Blank Mauser

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At first I thought Sonic's HA may be a problem as well, but with more thought theres really not much wrong with it. It has a pretty poor hitbox, and will simply be another way for him to space and bait along with approaching. Not much difference between him spamming homing attack or dash dance camping at all if neither of them end up hitting the opponent. As for being able to reverse directions, people like Lucario have relatively safe, fast ways to do that with hitboxes and an airdodge available by reverse B-ing. So its not new at all really. If the HA does end up being a problem, the most I think I would do is reduce the hitbox size.
 

yami_sora

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Yeah, I guess if you did adjust the angle it would just be all the more spammable, so after considering that I think it's fine the way it is, at any rate it's definitely still an improvement over the original version.

So, ftilt sweetspot and fthrow angle aside, are there any other changes that are going to be put into effect on this build of Sonic? Are the windups and windowns and any lag reductions going to be put back from the old version? Also that SDI alteration on his fair. Or are a few more things going to be different about this Sonic first?
 

yami_sora

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I dunno what more you want me to test or comment on, I mean I love all the changes and wrote pretty extensively about them but as is Sonic isn't ready to do any serious fighting of course. So I'm waiting to see if more changes go into effect.
 

[TSON]

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I think I know how to get homing attack to work right with the IASA. Just do an if statement checking 0B. I did it earlier and it worked great.
 

ChronicleX

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Yo long time lurker, first time poster and I have tested the sonic pac.

I am liking the IHA but since now it does not home in anymore it does weaken sonics air game too much I feel. From what I have read this does not seem to be your objective so why not base it off Lucario's Up-B. It would allow it to be directional while making it near instant, plus it would add skill to the homing aspect. Also using Down-B out of it tends to make sonic shoot up like he hit a spring which is annoying to say the least.

The S+K N-Air I like concept wise but dislike in practice because I find it impossible to combo with. So I am neutral on this change.

Using the Altered D-air seems to be what is causing the crashes btw from what I can tell. Since I stopped using it and started using N-B to spike or return to earth I have not crashed since. It is nice you can cancel out of it though so I hope you fix it.

Thats all I got for now.
 

yami_sora

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Haha welcome to the thread Chronicle. Well I'm not sure if they'd be able to allow you to aim the HA like you do Lucario's up B but that is an interesting idea. The way it works now isn't awful, it just means you have to always be above them in the air, it just takes some practice.

I find the nair a little difficult to combo with as well but it seems that this move is meant to be more of an approach right now and not necessarily a combo tool or a kill tool, I'm not sure how that will change in the future.

Did the game crash for you while using the dair? I was able to use it fine but the game sometimes crashed when I was on the ground and turning around and I'm pretty sure I used the dair at least once in matches where it didn't crash too. So yeah I'm not too sure what's going on with that but maybe Blank can look into it.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
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Nov 17, 2005
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I think I know how to get homing attack to work right with the IASA. Just do an if statement checking 0B. I did it earlier and it worked great.
I'm pretty sure they want only B move IASA, not global IASA (that would be stupid combos and HA spams). If so, its way easier to just delete the code I put in the subaction for Hitting the Ground and leaving the code in the subaction for hitting an opponent (its convenient his HA has these split subactoins).....
 

yami_sora

Smash Journeyman
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Milford, Massachusetts
Yeah I figured that's why the HA angle that's in place now was also set in stone, if they made it too good then it would just be abused and spammed and we don't want that.
 

[TSON]

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oTSONo
I'm pretty sure they want only B move IASA, not global IASA (that would be stupid combos and HA spams). If so, its way easier to just delete the code I put in the subaction for Hitting the Ground and leaving the code in the subaction for hitting an opponent (its convenient his HA has these split subactoins).....
Hmm, you sure you guys don't want to give on-contact IASA a chance? Because personally I think B -> any aerial sounds pretty hot. And since it doesn't home well then you couldn't spam it.
 

shanus

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Hmm, you sure you guys don't want to give on-contact IASA a chance? Because personally I think B -> any aerial sounds pretty hot. And since it doesn't home well then you couldn't spam it.
you pop extraordinarily high in the air when you do it, too. Like 4 jumps high.
 

ChronicleX

Smash Cadet
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Oct 30, 2009
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you pop extraordinarily high in the air when you do it, too. Like 4 jumps high.
You should be able to fix that if you delay the bounce back animation slightly or change it. Having the IASA during that animation is what is causing sonic to fly so high.
 

Perfect Chaos

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So I encountered a glitch with the instant HA. I forgot to save the replay though (and it wasn't even my Wii, anyway). What I did to trigger it, I don't know, but once, I somehow got into the charge-up phase where you rise upwards, but then I stayed in that phase, and rose as far as I wanted, until I hit the B-button again... Anyone else had this happen?

Also, the current RC1 HA IASA doesn't seem to have any problems, so why not just use that form of IASA for any future test .pac files?
 

Xzax Kasrani

Smash Master
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Jun 14, 2007
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Sonic shouldn't have lag after his B move. Having lag after you HIT someone isnt a bad idea but if you have lag if Sonic's use it to recover sometimes and we get lag when we hit the stage and get ***** for it.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
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Playing melee and smash ultimate
xzax... you seem to have your priorities completely mixed up. If a move is lagless when it misses, it's free to be spammed since your foe can't do anything to punish it short of interrupting it during the attack. If a move is lagless when it hits someone... you still have to hit someone in order to benefit from it. On-hit cancels are totally legit. And if you don't wanna get ***** for missing, then... don't miss.
 
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