Sonic Impressions. Matches, FAQ/Guide - Updated with vids! (34+ matches)

[Napilopez]

"Even tho his videos are against lvl 9 cpu, I will go as far as to say that Sonic Orochi IS BETTER than InterimofZeal."

=O

Sounds like fighting words to me! And on Zeal's own thread...

Really don't forget that playin a CPU is a TOTALLY different experience then playing a human.

However, I will not den that Orochi has shown great skill and intelligenc as a Sonic.

I guess we'll have to see once he can play against capable human players.

That would be n interesting matchup, Izzy vs. Orochi

Add Lucky to that fight too

P.S. Izzy, when you klled marth at 37% on Corneria... it was awesome.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sonic's magic percent on Corneria with the uthrow double uair is 13%. Everyone dies at the fin from it. He has a bunch of ******** low magic percents on that level.

I didn't get to tape this weekend guys, sorry. Lotsa homework+Apollo Justice+just sharing brawl with friends=me not playing too much brawl, and recording nothing. Sorry!

Sonic has a LOT of techniques I want to showcase. I'll try to get them up soon.

To clarify, you can only cancel the >b into a grab during the opening frames. This is still amazing, though, due to two factors. Sonic's speed, and the fact that it puts you into the standing grab animation, without any shield lag or anything.

Sonic's speed is a major asset, because your opponents have to predict you as much as you need to predict them. If you run up, and start a spindash noise, they're going to react like you're doing either >b or dash attack. Cancel it into a grab, a sidestep, a jump, or a roll, and let the good times begin.

OMG i just saw Sonic Orochi in action, and I must say he totally blew me away!!! Your style is so fast and aggressive that you constantly keep your opponent guessing. Even tho his videos are against lvl 9 cpu, I will go as far as to say that Sonic Orochi is better than InterimofZeal. Orochi incorporates ALL of Sonic's attacks wisely and effectively while constantly zooming across the stage both horizontally AND vertically. Zeal, on the other hand, hardly ever uses the spin dash approach or the homing attack.

Both of you should do a mirror match just to see who is better, lol.

lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

I gotta give Orochi credit. If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have found out about Sonic's infinite jump, or stumbled upon being able to charge the >b, which moves ******** fast at full speed, and seems to gain some priority. I'll do testing later.

Sonic's >b is one of his best approach options, currently. I blew it off earlier, but I'm really starting to like it. If nothing else, it's beastly in teams. Also, I can reliably use it to do 33% to any big character. Whooo!

I'll edit my first post later with new impressions and the like.

As a parting note, even if Orochi 4 stocked me, and I 4 stocked Lucky in dittos, you couldn't infer that one of us had a better Sonic than the other. Just better in dittos, or against the particular person. DSW would have a better Falco than Forward if you applied that logic, seriously.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Now that Zeal has gotten a hold on Sonic's speed I really am starting to feel like Sonic is high tier material.

And that forward B cancel is just..wow.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I won't say he is or isn't right now. Seriously, go into every character specific forum, RIGHT NOW. Everyone thinks their character is at least high tier. I'll just say that Sonic isn't going to be the worst character by a long shot, and leave it at that.

Also, you can gimp Lucas' recovery by hitting the head of the thunder. I need to work on making this more practical, it's really really really hard. Springboard ~may~ be able to do it. Right now, it seems the best option is just using Sonic's ******** amount of invincibility frames when he's hanging on the edge to edgehog the brat.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. Most people in the character forums are fanboys that know nothing of what makes a character good.

I know for a fact Sonic can't be top tier for example no matter how much I love him. He isn't quite on that level.

But he still has potential to be very good.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yeah. Problem is, right now, everyone has the potential to be really good. We'll see actuality fleshed out over the next few months/years.

 

[magnomanX]

Ya, sry Zeal. I chose the wrong words. I should have said that I prefer Orochi's STYLE over yours instead of flat out claiming he is better than you. My apologies.

But ya, I'm REALLY looking forward to those vids showcasing those new techniques!

PS: I do also think that it's really cool how every board is analyzing the strengths of each character and concluding that they are all at least competent. It shows how balanced this game is.

 

[Digital Angel]

I won't say he is or isn't right now. Seriously, go into every character specific forum, RIGHT NOW. Everyone thinks their character is at least high tier. I'll just say that Sonic isn't going to be the worst character by a long shot, and leave it at that.

Also, you can gimp Lucas' recovery by hitting the head of the thunder. I need to work on making this more practical, it's really really really hard. Springboard ~may~ be able to do it. Right now, it seems the best option is just using Sonic's ******** amount of invincibility frames when he's hanging on the edge to edgehog the brat.

Thank you finally someone speaking with some sense. I find the every character high-tier amusing also, it's the same thing with 90% of the population thinking they are above average XD.

Btw, what's this I hear about the >b's usefulness and charging. I'm curious, could someone elaborate on what it's good for.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I'll try to get some stuff up soon to show how badass it is.

Magno, no shame in favouring one player (or their style) over another. I'm definitely cool with that. I still like Azen over M2K in SSBM, even though M2K has the better Marth. Just preferences. I'm not gonna eat you alive for that. XD

 

[magnomanX]

Ok, as long as we're cool. I hate feeling like a **** after something I've said.

And I can totally understand if you want to try pwning me for a couple matches once this game comes out. I wouldn't mind at all ^_^

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Lmfao, I don't really want to pwn you or anything. Wouldn't mind playing, though. I'm not really an *** about things unless someone else is an *** first. It's all good.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Sonic's magic percent on Corneria with the uthrow double uair is 13%. Everyone dies at the fin from it. He has a bunch of ******** low magic percents on that level.

I didn't get to tape this weekend guys, sorry. Lotsa homework+Apollo Justice+just sharing brawl with friends=me not playing too much brawl, and recording nothing. Sorry!

Sonic has a LOT of techniques I want to showcase. I'll try to get them up soon.

To clarify, you can only cancel the >b into a grab during the opening frames. This is still amazing, though, due to two factors. Sonic's speed, and the fact that it puts you into the standing grab animation, without any shield lag or anything.

Sonic's speed is a major asset, because your opponents have to predict you as much as you need to predict them. If you run up, and start a spindash noise, they're going to react like you're doing either >b or dash attack. Cancel it into a grab, a sidestep, a jump, or a roll, and let the good times begin.



lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

I gotta give Orochi credit. If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have found out about Sonic's infinite jump, or stumbled upon being able to charge the >b, which moves ******** fast at full speed, and seems to gain some priority. I'll do testing later.

Sonic's >b is one of his best approach options, currently. I blew it off earlier, but I'm really starting to like it. If nothing else, it's beastly in teams. Also, I can reliably use it to do 33% to any big character. Whooo!

I'll edit my first post later with new impressions and the like.

As a parting note, even if Orochi 4 stocked me, and I 4 stocked Lucky in dittos, you couldn't infer that one of us had a better Sonic than the other. Just better in dittos, or against the particular person. DSW would have a better Falco than Forward if you applied that logic, seriously.

lol, sorry about this, but I also thought that charging the Spin Dash was well-known as well >_>

However, I can't really say that I like the Spin Dash (side B) at all... it <i>does</i> set up for a nice aerial if you hit the enemy with the first hop and jump cancel afterwards, but it's totally possible for the opponent to retaliate afterwards, unless you use a Spring right away... and if you do that, it also kinda leaves you open to attacks then.

I dunno, I feel that the Spin Dash slows down Sonic's fighting style a bit (the first hop feels slow to me). Plus, if you get attacked after the jump cancel, you have to consider this: you lost your second jump when you jump canceled earlier (that is, if you cancel during the hop... if you cancel after you touch the ground, I think it works just like the Spin Charge), so you only have the Spring to recover.

With the Spin Charge, I can either run through my opponents and follow up with an aerial or Homing Attack, or jump before reaching my opponent, and Homing Attack him (awesome if you "predict" you opponent's rolling and hit him after the roll). Plus, you don't lose your second jump by jumping out of the Spin Charge. And it's just that fast (doesn't take as long as the Spin Dash to charge, too).

I prefer using the Spin Dash to return to the stage only. Spin Dash -> double jump -> air dodge/Spring+dair seems always to work wonders to me. You can also go under Final Destination and return on the other side... lol

So... all in all, I'm looking forward to your update on this move so then I can try to make a better offensive use out of it =P

And... about a match to decide which one has the better Sonic... I agree with everything you said xD

But I just want to say that I'm used to the computer cheating, so it would be way easier for me =P (just joking... lol)

 

[magnomanX]

I agree with Orochi about Side B feeling "slow", but I DO think it has its uses. When would you want to slow Sonic down, you say? How about feinting an approach? Suppose you "train" your opponent to react to your running approach. That means they are more likely to react to counter a dash attack or throw with either a dodge or roll. BUT if you performed Side B just before reaching them, you could read their reaction and react accordingly. If they actually WERE prepared for the Side B feint, then you can always jump cancel before or after releasing the charge and attempt another approach.

What I want to see is some tech chasing after down throw. I'm pretty sure that if you charge Down B right after the throw is over, you will have enough speed to tech chase whatever they do. If they tech or roll tech, dash into em. If they hit the floor, even better as you can store even MORE charge while waiting for their reaction. If they jump before hitting the floor, then they just waisted their second jump.

I noticed that Zeal would usually RUN up to his opponent after a down throw. But I also noticed that he would put up his shield predicting a rising attack. With Down B after the throw, you don't even need to consider going defensive whatsoever.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yeah you do. Get up attack has invincible frames. I considered it, and it would work in SSBM, but since people take so long to land in this game, tech-chasing with the Spindash I is limited. D:

 

[magnomanX]

If they DO land on the floor, 1 of 3 things may happen.

1) They just get up. Spindash 1 into them easy.
2) They roll left or right. Adjust the timing of release accordingly.
3) Rising attack. Time the release of the charge so you hit right after the invincible frames wear off.

All those outcomes can be easily predicted. I wouldn't think you would have to worry about the invincible frames at all, but then again I haven't played this game for about a week

But I DO think that this tech chase could be countered by someone with a projectile (DDD, Samus, Link etc)

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It's really not that simple. Most characters can shield before you can get there against Sonic, due to sweeping outward during the frames. I wish it was. I dunno, maybe I just need to react better. D:

 

[da K.I.D.]

what we need to do is have a tournament on green hill with izzy, lucky, kuja, ME (Obviously =]) orochi, and STHD... that will be some fun stuff.
and also can you explain to me what magic percent means... i think i missed that convo.

 

[magnomanX]

Ya, I wish I had this game so I could test it out. If the window of opportunity between getting up from the floor and being able to shield has been lessened, then Spindash 1 tech chase would definitely be harder.

 

[BananaNut]

Zeal, in the spindash to up A combo, why don't you follow it up with sonic's homing attack?

 

[Jisike]

*edit* nevermind this lol

 

[InterimOfZeal]

That's an interesting idea, I'll hafta try it out.

 

[Lyoncet]

With all the Sonic-specific techniques coming out, I think it would be nice to have somebody who's very familiar with the character put together a comprehensive list on this forum. I'm seriously starting to lose track of them.

I'd volunteer to do it, but given that I don't have the game, I really don't have a very good grasp of any of them. Would someone be willing to put the time in?

(I'm tacking this on to this thread because this post doesn't deserve its own topic.)

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Start listing them, I'll update them in a Techniques section. Match-ups is going to wait for now.

 

[Espy Rose]

With all the Sonic-specific techniques coming out, I think it would be nice to have somebody who's very familiar with the character put together a comprehensive list on this forum. I'm seriously starting to lose track of them.

I'd volunteer to do it, but given that I don't have the game, I really don't have a very good grasp of any of them. Would someone be willing to put the time in?

(I'm tacking this on to this thread because this post doesn't deserve its own topic.)

I was about to post something like this.

I've been gone for the last 2 days, and I want to know exactly what the hell happened while I was gone. What's this about his forward-b and cancel grabbing?

 

[DarkKnight077]

Can the forward B be sweetspotted like's Fox's? Or...is the spring really the only way of recovery?

 

[Jisike]

No sweetspotting forward b, but it can be cancelled by a double jump

 

[DarkKnight077]

Yea I read that. Darn, if there was sweetspotting for the forward B then Sonic would be so beastly. But it isn't that bad.

 

[Lyoncet]

Start listing them, I'll update them in a Techniques section. Match-ups is going to wait for now.

Oh boy.

OK, well there's the hyphen-usmash (not really Sonic-specific, but a Sonic technique at least)
The >b grab you're talking about
The extra-range fsmash
Quick homing attacks
Dair cancels, homing attack gimping, and other non-advanced but still useful strategies (not sure if you'd count these, but may be worth mentioning)

That's all I can get off the top of my head and know that's not all of them. Anybody else help us out?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Springboard spikes, homing attack after uair, stall, infinite jumps, side taunt lololololol

I just got 3 stocked by Ness on the Halberd. D: D: D:

We taped it. D: D: D:

Imma post it in the thread later. XDDDDD

Good times.

 

[Lyoncet]

Yeah, those too.

A few more: invincibility frames on spindash moves and down/side b cancels. I know that last one is mentioned briefly in each move's description, but again, may still warrant mentioning.

 

[tw1n]

Ha ha some of these new "techniques" are awesome =D I love the springboard dair one. Too funny

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Nice, I thought they had some.

Hay guize, sorry it's been soi long sine when I said I was gonna post the vids, I've just had trouble with the capture card. D:

Btw, try >b into grab, it has mad invincibility frames.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Ooo..>b to grab that's a good combo start.

Dude >b D-throw, tech chase, tech chase. : D

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Hey, that might actually work. I'll try it today.

:D :D :D

 

[Damax]

Hey, that might actually work. I'll try it today.

:D :D :D

it might actually not work at all...


wait what? yeah down throw doesn't always bring an opponent down. ask your friend to learn to DI and tell them to DI the down throw up, hell they can even jump after it.

my friend did that one day after I learned to tech chase after a D-throw. but then he kept doing it, DI up and jump after.

so I ran jumped and caught him in a forward B to back air combo, pretty nice. Sonic says: I tech chase even in the AIRS! lolz

 

[Timotee]

wait what? yeah down throw doesn't always bring an opponent down. ask your friend to learn to DI and tell them to DI the down throw up, hell they can even jump after it.

Depends on the character, but his friends do know how to DI it. Try it on Ness and you'll just eat nair.

 

[Mikezor]

Yeah, GG and all, Damax. We know about that. Certain characters can't DI it up, and others can't until certain percents. Side-b is situational, as is the invincible tech-chase (not as good as I'd hoped. D: D: D. Against those characters, I've taken to uthrow uairing, or, if they like to airdodge, uthrow, wait, grab, and then either uthrow or dthrow. Situational.

-Zeal

EDIT: lolololol@telling my friends to learn how to DI. Have you seen some of the stupid **** we've survived?

 

[Shadowlyger]

Something I've noticed in several videos, but no one's ever points out...

I notice sometimes, when people use Sonic's dair, it doesn't shoot him downward, he just moves along with his foot out like a normal dair... I mostly see it happen when the user is off the stage, anyone else noticed it?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Shadowlyger, the thing you're talking about, if I understand what you are talking about correctly, is due to the same physics that causes Toon Link's d-air stall. If you want further information on that, just search around (especially in the Toon Link forum).

 

[Shadowlyger]

No, not quite the same thing, TLink's dair glitch makes him hold still in midair, with Sonic, it's kinda like using an airdodge, he keeps his momentum, but doesn't shoot down like his dair should.

Like there, you'll notice at one point when he's below the left side of the stage, his foot kicks out, but he doesn't shoot down.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong video, hold on a second...

EDIT 2: *Facepalm* That WAS the right video. XD

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fXsENGJ0Tqg

Somewhere around, like, 40 seconds in, right next to the ledge.