Something peculiar from EVO. How could it relate to Smash?

[da K.I.D.]

So that weekend of EVO, I was probably doing the same thing that many of you were doing. I was eagerly watching the stream most of the weekend, I watched both sets of JWong losing to Vangief, and Gamerbee on Saturday, and I watched Lord Knight pull second place in the melty blood tourney (the first time Ive ever actually seen him lose a tourney), but after the melty blood tourney on sunday, I watched something that was very strange, almost alien to me...

The Women's Super Street Fighter 4 invitational tournament.

And the whole time I watched, I was highly conflicted. And I wasnt sure what to think about this...

On the one hand, its fantastic exposure for a section that doesnt get nearly enough respect. Female gamers. It was really cool to see such a large group of females getting the spotlight in such a male dominated area, such as tournament video games.

But on the other hand, holding a girls-only tournament can be seen as a subtile/subconscious way of saying that girls are clearly no where near as good as boys at videogames, and that they need their own side events in order to do anything worth while.

I would like to get some opinions from the smash community on this. Is it a good or a bad idea to have girls-only tournaments. And how would that go down in the smash community? Would having a girls only tourney at say Apex2010 (yes I know this isnt going to happen but I just wanted to use a big event that everyone is thinking about as a reference) be a positive or a negative influence in our community?

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

first post!

the sexism. let female gamers play with the men

 

[Dark 3nergy]

depends how many girls are currently active in the scene?

actually the EVO girls section for SSF4 was really cool though, even the whole crowd full of guys were yelling and cheering for them

Super SF4 Women’s Invitational — Top 4
1. AAA Kayane
2. Burnyourbra
3. Yellow Gal
4. Lina

http://evo2k.com/

 

[Mew2King]

you read too much into it. It's just another way to make money and have interest in the game. They don't care about all that other stuff. It's just to make money, have more interest, have more attendance and support of the game for it to stay huge.

 

[da K.I.D.]

you read too much into it. It's just another way to make money and have interest in the game. They don't care about all that other stuff. It's just to make money, have more interest, have more attendance and support of the game for it to stay huge.

hmmm... that is a good point, I never even considered that option.

And I do tend to think too much about things sometimes, but I still would like some opinions on how it could pertain to smash.

 

[darkoblivion12]

m2k is right, as well they are really trying to show off that they have women attending these events

 

[Shiri]

Well, regardless of whether or not he's right

that is clearly not the question presented in the OP

I think that for most other games it would be fine

Smash has too many hormonally awkward and socially inept 18 year olds

who would do nothing but drool and rub their faces against the walls while

all the ladies are busy doing their thing

Just kidding

but not really

I think it would be great at larger tournaments

but those barely run on time and are too busy

doing really lame side events to press an already

jammed schedule

So long story short

it's an awesome idea

just not for Smash in the way the common tournament

format is currently implemented

 

[Rappster]

As long as women are not excluded from the primary bracket, i don't see any problem with having a women's bracket.

most sports that do this (chess, ultimate, ssIV), however, are doing this to gain acceptance as a family game. Smash is already a "family game" in the eyes of most gamers.

 

[-Ran]

The Women had to enter the main bracket to play in the invitational. It was more or less a second female pissing contest so that the females could participate to see who was the best 'female' player. I think part of the issue with having women play Smash/fighting games, is the way the community often acts around them:

1) Tournaments stink most of the time. People should really bring more deodorant so that they can reapply. Women tend to not like 'musky' environments.
2) Being the only female out of 50 guys isn't too fun for them since for many it doesn't feel safe. Wandering hands tend to poke and prod where they shouldn't.
3) Too much hitting on them, since 'ZOMG GIRL WITH A COMMON INTEREST.'
4) Elevation of their status, ie too much attention to them because they are a girl playing a game. They aren't left as being simple a player, but instead a pair of breasts that know how to DI.
5) Ignoring them completely. Some guys are so socially awkward they won't even tell a girl at a tournament hello, if they have a match with them, or instead they'd stare at the girl as if she was a Victoria Secret Model.

Seriously, if you want more girls to play we as a community men have to improve. I can't stress this enough, Smash isn't E-Harmony. Lol.

 

[Juushichi]

The Women had to enter the main bracket to play in the invitational. It was more or less a second female pissing contest so that the females could participate to see who was the best 'female' player. I think part of the issue with having women play Smash/fighting games, is the way the community often acts around them:

1) Tournaments stink most of the time. People should really bring more deodorant so that they can reapply. Women tend to not like 'musky' environments.
2) Being the only female out of 50 guys isn't too fun for them since for many it doesn't feel safe. Wandering hands tend to poke and prod where they shouldn't.
3) Too much hitting on them, since 'ZOMG GIRL WITH A COMMON INTEREST.'
4) Elevation of their status, ie too much attention to them because they are a girl playing a game. They aren't left as being simple a player, but instead a pair of breasts that know how to DI.
5) Ignoring them completely. Some guys are so socially awkward they won't even tell a girl at a tournament hello, if they have a match with them, or instead they'd stare at the girl as if she was a Victoria Secret Model.

Seriously, if you want more girls to play we as a community men have to improve. I can't stress this enough, Smash isn't E-Harmony. Lol.

Ran is making way too much sense here.

 

[eeveee]

The Women had to enter the main bracket to play in the invitational. It was more or less a second female pissing contest so that the females could participate to see who was the best 'female' player. I think part of the issue with having women play Smash/fighting games, is the way the community often acts around them:

1) Tournaments stink most of the time. People should really bring more deodorant so that they can reapply. Women tend to not like 'musky' environments.
2) Being the only female out of 50 guys isn't too fun for them since for many it doesn't feel safe. Wandering hands tend to poke and prod where they shouldn't.
3) Too much hitting on them, since 'ZOMG GIRL WITH A COMMON INTEREST.'
4) Elevation of their status, ie too much attention to them because they are a girl playing a game. They aren't left as being simple a player, but instead a pair of breasts that know how to DI.
5) Ignoring them completely. Some guys are so socially awkward they won't even tell a girl at a tournament hello, if they have a match with them, or instead they'd stare at the girl as if she was a Victoria Secret Model.

Seriously, if you want more girls to play we as a community men have to improve. I can't stress this enough, Smash isn't E-Harmony. Lol.

Seriously. This pretty much sums it up. The fact that the person with the OP is a brilliant example of what girls do NOT look forward to when they go to a tourney exacerbates this.

I can't stress the safety thing enough. When I go OOS to things I stick REAL close to people I feel are more likely to look out for me in the event that something happens or that will deter jerks in general, ie cura, Jesse, pikapika, sharky, acton, everyone from our region, etc).

In addition I am not a fan of the stank, especially considering my height, I'm at pit level, and yes, it's putrid

the attention factor is a serious thing to consider. I don't enjoy being overly hyped just cause I'm female but I'd also appreciate some appraisal when I do something awesome, much like every other player. If I get a compliment, I'd sooner prefer one relevant to my gameplay, rather than something based on my physical composition.

Separating, as there may be an implication of this gender is superior to this gender, is irrelevant to me. I don't blame my losses cause I'm a girl. I blame it on my lack of investment for the game. I never play online and I'm not in a rush for friendlies most of the time. And I don't read squat on the boards. Of course this is subjective. Some girls may do poorly no matter how much time they put in, but that applies to males as well.

In any case I'm fine with either or. Female only brakcet or thrown in with the rest of the boys, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not playing for them, I play cause I have fun with it

 

[Kason Birdman]

in smash just throw them in the regular bracket. why would they get there own bracket? it doesnt make sence. that would just be a waste of time. they are just girls.

like what eeveee said. if they lose to someone in the main bracket. its not because they are girls, its simply because they arnt as good as who they lost to or dont practice/know enough about matchups and current metagame.

and yes. guys need to have a better attitude towards woman at tournaments, one that say, is the same one they have towards guys at tournaments.

 

[Rain(ame)]

The odor thing....it may not always be the guys. I've dealt with more than my fair share of straight up STANKY females in a large environment. (Opens your mind (and nasal passageways) when you actually realize where the smell is coming from.)

As far as the environment....it's actually just as much their responsibility as it is our own.

1.) You can't assume every guy that talks to a female is hitting on them.
2.) Poking happens....to all of us.
3.) Sometimes you have to take the initiative to speak to people and start the conversation. This isn't the 1950s...it's okay
4.) To be respected....just be mad chill, play the game, and be "Just another one of the smashers."
5.) Expect a lot of questions, and be prepared to answer. A lot of guys want to see if they can convince some other female friends to go a tournament.

For the record: Kayane is mad legit. So is Burnyourbra...I've seen what she can do, and she's actually pretty decent. When she's in the party...she acts like everyone else. She rolls with the punches if someone jokes, and gives it right back. Just mad chill in general. When she talks trash...she never brings the fact up that she's a girl. She doesn't make sexist comments on the low. She doesn't try to catch people in awkward situations just to accuse them.
--------------------------

The problem with the female population is that there are like two extremes that can be intimidating, Honestly....it happens Male or female, but here they are:

1.) People making TOO big of a deal that it's a female
2.) People that don't want to put them on a pillar, but wind up being total jerks about it in the process. (Like this dude I know that was talking trash on Kayane. Even though...I'm sure she could have beaten him.)

People who understand this feeling:

1.) New players that have talent and potential. There are people that will hype them up, then there will be people that will just talk down to them horridly.
2.) Out of region/country players that haven't hit the main stage yet.(for people to see.) Biggest example: Armada/Amsah
3.) American players to Korea/Japan. When it comes to Tekken/Streetfighter....we don't get respect. Even if we are good. Even if we beat them. (MLG Tekken, anyone?)
4.) European players- They get disrespected as well.

 

[mastermoo420]

Yeah... e-sports aren't physical sports, and there's no reason why a girl should be in a different tournament than a guy. Sports are kept separate because there's a specific reason on athleticism/strength and gender. Plus, it's harder to get aggressive against a girl in a game such as soccer or basketball because of the time old social law of "no hitting girls."

But an e-sport takes place in a different world. I mean, it's not like a girl playing Fox will all-of-a-sudden have a shine that comes out a frame late or dashes slower. The only reason they should be in different tournaments is because, as M2K states, of some kind of financial reason or something to do with profits.

 

[Byron 1337]

Well, regardless of whether or not he's right

that is clearly not the question presented in the OP

I think that for most other games it would be fine

Smash has too many hormonally awkward and socially inept 18 year olds

who would do nothing but drool and rub their faces against the walls while

all the ladies are busy doing their thing

Just kidding

but not really

I think it would be great at larger tournaments

but those barely run on time and are too busy

doing really lame side events to press an already

jammed schedule

So long story short

it's an awesome idea

just not for Smash in the way the common tournament

format is currently implemented

I didnt know mango got a name change and moderator status

 

[Shiri]

Don't worry, he didn't.

 

[EPsilon933]

MaNg0 formatting

It's an addiction

like the last drug/smoke/beer you had

unless you're a good little kid

that doesn't ruin ya own health

MaNg0 formatting

Ahh

****

But yeah

Evo Just wants extra attention

 

[swordgard]

Yeah... e-sports aren't physical sports, and there's no reason why a girl should be in a different tournament than a guy. Sports are kept separate because there's a specific reason on athleticism/strength and gender. Plus, it's harder to get aggressive against a girl in a game such as soccer or basketball because of the time old social law of "no hitting girls."

But an e-sport takes place in a different world. I mean, it's not like a girl playing Fox will all-of-a-sudden have a shine that comes out a frame late or dashes slower. The only reason they should be in different tournaments is because, as M2K states, of some kind of financial reason or something to do with profits.

On the other hand, men and women think differently, they simply don't have the same type of brain chemistry. Does that however impact smash play a lot? I have no idea.


Clearly, the only reason we have so far for women not doing so well in tourneys is because statistically speaking, there is very little odds of a woman being good at the game(out of 100 players, 1 will be pro, 98 are guys, 2 are women, odds are its not going to be a woman).

 

[Jim Morrison]

Can we first start getting low tiers tournaments regularly instead of 4 (wo)man-tournaments?

 

[DoH]

Where is the gay player's side tournament?

Peach dittos all dai

 

[Dart!]

MacD
DoH
Kels
...can't think of a fourth candidate. >.>

 

[da K.I.D.]

How could you forget Mikey L?

 

[mastermoo420]

On the other hand, men and women think differently, they simply don't have the same type of brain chemistry. Does that however impact smash play a lot? I have no idea.


Clearly, the only reason we have so far for women not doing so well in tourneys is because statistically speaking, there is very little odds of a woman being good at the game(out of 100 players, 1 will be pro, 98 are guys, 2 are women, odds are its not going to be a woman).

I mean, that's true, but it just seems to be the stereotype and "society's norms" that seem to be holding women back at the moment. But I do think that a girl would need to spend at least a little more time to get to a high level than a guy would.

I mean, not trying to be sexist, but guys can easily pick up games than girls can. Even at a casual level, a guy will be able to pick up a game fairly quickly, and having an understanding at the casual level can help as a gateway to the pro level. But, I don't really know if it would hold true if a girl spent the same amount of time playing.

But, at the very least, I do believe that women have as much potential as males do.

 

[DoH]

Miley Lenetia, Xelic, Sanuzi, Ryoko, Yuna...

 

[ryuu seika]

@mastermoo420: I'm pretty sure that any woman who spent the amount of time gaming that I do could pick up new games as quickly as anyone else. It's just unlikely that you'll find any suck woman, though this is indeed likely to do with the "norms" of society keeping women from from becoming gamers so often, atleast to some degree. Such gender stereotyping is also likely to prevent girls from becoming gamers as young as boys, which likely also affects their view of it and ability to pick up games in later life.

Anyway, I'm going on too much. I have nothing against girls in gaming and this may be the way to start things off but I don't see seperating the genders as a long term plus for any competetive event.

 

[Atlus8]

Women have their own soccer league, WNBA and their own events in the Olympics . . . I don't see any problem with that! I can see why there are female events in those since men are more physically in tune than women! I know gaming isn't physically demanding, but it is dominated by men! I think giving attention to girls by giving them their 'female only' event is alright!

 

[Ryuker]

I don't know if women weren't allowed to enter the "main" event but if so that would be wrong. I think they always should be.
But hasn't anyone in here considered that you can hold these side events in order for more females to start playing competitive since the bar isn't as high? It's one way of solving the problem of too little female competive gamers.

Also: In general I think women are just as good as men at picking up new games. Look on the countless of games online target audience. But they don't play some of the games with a male target audience cause it doesn't appeal to them.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Its a good idea, but understand, it's not because women are inherently worse at the game, it's because there's a lower interested population and having something for them will help generate interest.


That's just reality.

 

[X1-12]

how many females even are there in the smash community?

 

[mastermoo420]

@ryuu seika:

I mean, not trying to be sexist, but guys can easily pick up games than girls can. Even at a casual level, a guy will be able to pick up a game fairly quickly, and having an understanding at the casual level can help as a gateway to the pro level. But, I don't really know if it would hold true if a girl spent the same amount of time playing.

Hurr durrr

You can't really say "I'm pretty sure," though; you don't really have enough evidence for that. But that's just me being nit-picky with words.

 

[Dart!]

Idk about u guys but getting my *** beat by darkrains at my second tourney ever was pretty humbling

 

[Rubyiris]

Threads talking about the "stink" of gamers makes me happy to know that I live in a region where people playing games are generally average people who just have a hobby, and as such, happen to have perfectly normal hygiene habits.

 

[victra♥]

AAA Kayane, the winner of that, is hella attractive. Like, seriously o.o

 

[da K.I.D.]

I agree fully, however the 2nd place finisher, burnyourbra, is like on the completely opposite of the attraction spectrum

 

[victra♥]

but she does have one fantastic gamer tag

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

men tend to have one train of thought and usually have more focus and can pick up the game faster,
that being said girls often multi task more often and might have more agendas than just winning the game. this is related to how humans evolved since men focused on killing animals(one task, very diffcult, requires focus) and women were homemakers caring for children, gathering edibles, cooking, cleaning( many tasks, not as difficult but all require focus) this difference should make females less prone to picking up smash but i think if they do pick it up they could revolutionize smash alltogether
(kinda hard to predict an opponent with several mindsets/trains of thought
go get em girls

 

[S l o X]

Didn't women fight for the right to be treated equal as men?

Then let them play in the same tourney. It's not like they are at a disadvantage for being a WOMEN or anything.

btw, everyone in my region smells lovely. yes, i smell people randomly and like to post on the boards about what i smell because it's very informative. deodorant is #1 on my list of things to do after i shower. I'm sure it's the same for others. Some people just naturally smell like **** and should just bring a can of Axe and spray it all over themselves. I went to P4 and didn't smell anything like people on the boards complain about. Get some nose plugs and breathe from your mouth.