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Smashers are Too Good @ MvC3

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
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Rochester, NY
Can you get out of it with early-invinc supers like Hard Drive? If so, I wonder how many supers apply to that?
Viewtiful Joe has a small amount of iframes on desperado
Phoenix Infernal
Morrigans Darkness Illusion level 3
Sent's Hard Drive.
Skrulls Inferno doesnt have iframes but its still really fast and hits everywhere so its typically worth it to throw it out there to stuff a lot of set ups.

Zero
Viper
Vergil
Morrigan
maybe Wolvie

Wesker is not top 5. Most top players in MD agree with this (DJ Huoshen and Unkn0wn)
All the wesker players think that wesker is bad because they play him and lose and dont realise that its because the other guy is just a better player than them.... look at hax, perfect example.

Morrigan is not that good, I promise you. Cause if were going to put the best assist on top of the character as a means to determine how good they are, then hulk deserves to be right up there too because putting drones behind him makes the character ********.

It depends how you look at it.

I'd say Viper is far from as good on assist or anchor spot. Same for Wolvie.
Wesker on the other hand can take every spot and be useful.

Also Dante should be in top5 buuut I haven't played this game in forever and stuff
in all fairness, vipers assists are really good and theres a ton of potential for combo extentions with seismo and unblockable set ups with burn kick that nobody has looked into yet because everyone puts her on point.

wolvies assists are wack though, ill give you that.
 

TL?

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
576
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Zero
Viper
Vergil
Morrigan
maybe Wolvie

Wesker is not top 5. Most top players in MD agree with this (DJ Huoshen and Unkn0wn)
Morrigan > Wesker? You crazy? Even wolvie > wesker is absurd. Wesker is great on any team, in any slot. He pretty much has a monopoly on useable otg assists. He can kill a character 100% in xf3 in 1-3 seconds. He's fast, he does good damage, has good mixups, good health, a 1 frame command grab, teleports, counters, and a permanent power/speed boost mini xfactor mechanic.

Wolverine is just a pretty good rushdown character. Fast and good damage, but somewhat vulnerable to zoning. All of his assists are trash and he is highly dependant on assists himself.

Morrigan is overrated because people assume she is always backed up by missles. She's actually pretty hard to place on a team well in general. Her DHCs are bad, and most characters would prefer an assist to extend combos or lock the opponent down for mixup attempts over meter gain. Her combo damage is very low, and her ground dash is useless. Morrigan is really only a top tier threat with missles, and I don't see why she gets all the credit for this really good combination instead of doom. Astral vision is easy to avoid without missles blocking the super jumps. Not to mention doom is one of the most common characters in the whole metagame, and on top of that hes a strong character in addition to his ridiculous assists and he fits on pretty much any team. firebrand is equally qualified for top 5 if all you need is one really strong combination, while merely being kinda good in general.

And what about spencer!? IMO hes better than viper(maybe), vergil, morrigan, AND wolverine.
 

Death Arcana

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Ima die hard tron fan but she is really bad now but I don't want to drop her.
Does anyone know what a good team be with her?
Is she better on point or an anchor?

:phone:
 

Hax

Smash Champion
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wow @ doom sufficing as the lockdown assist for the firebrand snap loop. firebrand morrigan doom is definitely top 5 teams in the game, if not the best

All the wesker players think that wesker is bad because they play him and lose and dont realise that its because the other guy is just a better player than them.... look at hax, perfect example.
you're ****ing stupid
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Rochester, NY
I say, you have done a suberb job of proving me wrong using logics and facts.


Also if any one knows or cares... I got 9th at seasons beatings apparently.
3rd place in my pool where top 2 get out. =(
:phone:
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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someone teach me how to be good at this game =[

I play PW/Trish/Arthur

Just picked trish up today, been playing pw/arthur for a few months now.
 

Scatz

Smash Champion
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Yipes ran his best team from what Noel's been saying. Dante/Vergil/Magneto

KID, you did okay, just gotta learn to not get bodied when XF3 lights up.
 

TL?

Smash Ace
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Messages
576
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You're kid goggles? Can I ask you why x23 is on your team? She seems like deadweight without a beam assist, lockdown assist, or combo extender. I don't think she really has much synergy with morrigan either aside from helping stock level 3s. This is from someone who used to run x23, vergil, morrigan.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Rochester, NY
I saw you play man.

You had Yipes so bad but got beat by that Xfactor3 Magnus.


Also wow you're black 0_o
That was not me.
The person who fought Yipes on stream was my practice partner, all the way from melee, Pikapika! if any of the older heads remember him.

I was the guy with two pairs of goggles, and headphones on that fought Dieminion twice on stream.

The two of us and my friend Flux make a pretty good team/group to practice with.
Good **** Goggles
Thank you. but the only reason I went to that tournament was to beat Dieminion. And I failed.
someone teach me how to be good at this game =[

I play PW/Trish/Arthur

Just picked trish up today, been playing pw/arthur for a few months now.
Ill get back to this later.
You're kid goggles? Can I ask you why x23 is on your team? She seems like deadweight without a beam assist, lockdown assist, or combo extender. I don't think she really has much synergy with morrigan either aside from helping stock level 3s. This is from someone who used to run x23, vergil, morrigan.
X-23 is actually the undercover crux of my team. Shes actually the greatest threat to be honest.

She gives joe unblockables
She gives Morrigan unblockables.
She extends Joes combos, and adds a lot of damage to what he can do.
Same for Morrigan.
Her DHC synergy from and into Joe is great. All of her supers combo into full or near full damage from all of his and vice versa.
Her DHC synergy from and into Morrigan isnt perfect but its definitely doable and gets the job done.
With her on point she actually gains a lot from catering the other two's assists to her. I personally have a lot of setup and combos when I change up my team to have X-23 on point. I was actually playing Combofiend on sunday in friendlies, and I caught him with M Feint with Morrigan fireball at the same time and pretty much destroyed his she hulk and his spencer with it. Its like wolverines berserker slash mix ups, and with how fast Laura is and how painfully slow soul fist assist is, theres a lot of goofy stuff I can do with it.
Joes bomb assist glitch can also be taken advantage of by X-23 to change her from a mix up heavy character with low damage to a one touch kill character... with heavy mix ups.
X-23 makes the best use of X Factor, she has a simple BnB loop that can kill just about anybody, without meter. which makes her possibly the best character in the game at 2v1s. she can very easily x factor guard cancel and kill one character and use that easy loop to stock bar and dirt nap the last character and they really cant do anything about it.
Shes a great sleeper threat because when people played me at Seasons Beatings, I would close out the first game I won with Morrigan, and most people would get the impression that Morrigan is the threat, so they would spend all their resources to snap in and kill her, which actually leaves Laura free to just run through a team all by herself. since at that point she has 3-5 bars and x factor where as the other guy typically has 0-1 bars and no x factor.

Ive put a lot of thought and work into my team, and I havent even begun to implement all of the crazy stuff they can do just due to my own personal technical limitations (my hands dont like to do what theyre told, and I dont own a game or a system.)

I discovered a lot of never before seen stuff that only my team can do, so at this point, I couldnt drop or change my team even if I wanted to.
 

Malice Chains

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
429
I was talking about this the other day. Mvc3 is just an easier game learn as most new fighting games are, cause I most definitely don't see a lot of smashers doing good at other fighting games. It's like mvc3 is smash. Skullgirls too somewhat.

But who cares in the long run I guess

:phone:
 

TL?

Smash Ace
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Messages
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That was not me.
The person who fought Yipes on stream was my practice partner, all the way from melee, Pikapika! if any of the older heads remember him.

I was the guy with two pairs of goggles, and headphones on that fought Dieminion twice on stream.

The two of us and my friend Flux make a pretty good team/group to practice with.

Thank you. but the only reason I went to that tournament was to beat Dieminion. And I failed.

Ill get back to this later.


X-23 is actually the undercover crux of my team. Shes actually the greatest threat to be honest.

She gives joe unblockables
She gives Morrigan unblockables.
She extends Joes combos, and adds a lot of damage to what he can do.
Same for Morrigan.
Her DHC synergy from and into Joe is great. All of her supers combo into full or near full damage from all of his and vice versa.
Her DHC synergy from and into Morrigan isnt perfect but its definitely doable and gets the job done.
With her on point she actually gains a lot from catering the other two's assists to her. I personally have a lot of setup and combos when I change up my team to have X-23 on point. I was actually playing Combofiend on sunday in friendlies, and I caught him with M Feint with Morrigan fireball at the same time and pretty much destroyed his she hulk and his spencer with it. Its like wolverines berserker slash mix ups, and with how fast Laura is and how painfully slow soul fist assist is, theres a lot of goofy stuff I can do with it.
Joes bomb assist glitch can also be taken advantage of by X-23 to change her from a mix up heavy character with low damage to a one touch kill character... with heavy mix ups.
X-23 makes the best use of X Factor, she has a simple BnB loop that can kill just about anybody, without meter. which makes her possibly the best character in the game at 2v1s. she can very easily x factor guard cancel and kill one character and use that easy loop to stock bar and dirt nap the last character and they really cant do anything about it.
Shes a great sleeper threat because when people played me at Seasons Beatings, I would close out the first game I won with Morrigan, and most people would get the impression that Morrigan is the threat, so they would spend all their resources to snap in and kill her, which actually leaves Laura free to just run through a team all by herself. since at that point she has 3-5 bars and x factor where as the other guy typically has 0-1 bars and no x factor.

Ive put a lot of thought and work into my team, and I havent even begun to implement all of the crazy stuff they can do just due to my own personal technical limitations (my hands dont like to do what theyre told, and I dont own a game or a system.)

I discovered a lot of never before seen stuff that only my team can do, so at this point, I couldnt drop or change my team even if I wanted to.
Cool, thanks for the explaination. I was aware of the unblockables, those are fun. I'm also a "secret alt XF3 anchor" kind of guy. I run Arthur/Morrigan/Strider and Morrigan/Vergil/Strider, and I'm the worst as strider anchor out of all those characters(currently trying to learn strider).
 
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I was talking about this the other day. Mvc3 is just an easier game learn as most new fighting games are, cause I most definitely don't see a lot of smashers doing good at other fighting games. It's like mvc3 is smash. Skullgirls too somewhat.

But who cares in the long run I guess

:phone:
On the other hand, we get how many Street Fighter players placing well at major Smash tournaments?

Yeah, thought so. :smirk:
 

Malice Chains

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
429
On the other hand, we get how many Street Fighter players placing well at major Smash tournaments?

Yeah, thought so. :smirk:
Lmfao what great logic, seeing as almost everyone in that scene hates/ doesn't attempt to play smash

How many sf players enter smash tournaments?

:phone:
 

Smooth Criminal

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...you do realize that you can turn that very same question around and pretty much apply it to non-Smash players, right?

That's, uh, pretty ****ty logic.

Your answer has nothing to do with whether or not people can actually play a game; that's just a matter of preference, and quite frankly, we all know the answer to that. So, I ask again: Why can't Smash players pick up other games and do well?

Smooth Criminal
 

Smooth Criminal

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You're so sure?

Or, is it because they actually like the game?

That may be true for some, but for others that may not be the case.

Smooth Criminal
 

TL?

Smash Ace
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Smash players aren't placing well in most games, because competitive fighting game players generally only focus on one game or mechanically similar games. It's not because you want to put down smashers with your condescending "easy game" nonsense.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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That was not me.
The person who fought Yipes on stream was my practice partner, all the way from melee, Pikapika! if any of the older heads remember him.

I was the guy with two pairs of goggles, and headphones on that fought Dieminion twice on stream.

The two of us and my friend Flux make a pretty good team/group to practice with.
My bad, got you guys confused, it was night time when I was watching haha.

Yeah I remember your matches with Dieminion. Get a system and practice :awesome:
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
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Your logic still sucks, Malice.

I mean, why can't Smashers play other games aside from MvC3 and do well?

Smooth Criminal
i think a lot of it has to do with movement options, smash is a very free-form game and you have tons of different movement options (its a platform fighter for christ sake lol). similarly marvel has tons more movement options then most fighters so we feel more at home there.

add DI and its a wrap =p
 

VSC.D-Torr

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This is exactly why I hate the term Smasher. Smash is a game just like the other fighters. Chris G and Masta CJ both came from Smash yet they compete in not only high level MvC3 but also high level KOF, a game that's highly respected for it's technicality. One could say they are exceptions to the rule but I'm pretty sure they put in the time any good player does to be good. Anybody can be good at any game if they put in the time. "Smashers" just happen to like Marvel for the most part which is why you see alot play it.

:phone:
 

Smooth Criminal

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This is exactly why I hate the term Smasher. Smash is a game just like the other fighters. Chris G and Masta CJ both came from Smash yet they compete in not only high level MvC3 but also high level KOF, a game that's highly respected for it's technicality. One could say they are exceptions to the rule but I'm pretty sure they put in the time any good player does to be good. Anybody can be good at any game if they put in the time. "Smashers" just happen to like Marvel for the most part which is why you see alot play it.

:phone:
That was really the kinda point I was trying to make. Lol.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to give the term "Smasher" bad connotations.

Smooth Criminal
 

Scatz

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Everytime I see Torr post, he's killin' someone. SLOW DOWN FOR EM MAN!
 

Brightside6382

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Smash players aren't placing well in most games, because competitive fighting game players generally only focus on one game or mechanically similar games. It's not because you want to put down smashers with your condescending "easy game" nonsense.
I don't think that is necessarily true either. A lot of top players are good at multiple games that are mechanically extremely different ex. Jwong (everything) Floe (SF4, SCV) Chris G (MvC3, KOF). The difference is that these players know how to transfer basic fundamentals in FG's (spacing, footsies, etc) to different games. While a lot of melee players have extremely good aerial footsies and spacing when they see it presented in another game they don't understand how to transfer their knowledge.
 

GimR

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Morrigan > Wesker? You crazy? Even wolvie > wesker is absurd. Wesker is great on any team, in any slot. He pretty much has a monopoly on useable otg assists. He can kill a character 100% in xf3 in 1-3 seconds. He's fast, he does good damage, has good mixups, good health, a 1 frame command grab, teleports, counters, and a permanent power/speed boost mini xfactor mechanic.

Wolverine is just a pretty good rushdown character. Fast and good damage, but somewhat vulnerable to zoning. All of his assists are trash and he is highly dependant on assists himself.

Morrigan is overrated because people assume she is always backed up by missles. She's actually pretty hard to place on a team well in general. Her DHCs are bad, and most characters would prefer an assist to extend combos or lock the opponent down for mixup attempts over meter gain. Her combo damage is very low, and her ground dash is useless. Morrigan is really only a top tier threat with missles, and I don't see why she gets all the credit for this really good combination instead of doom. Astral vision is easy to avoid without missles blocking the super jumps. Not to mention doom is one of the most common characters in the whole metagame, and on top of that hes a strong character in addition to his ridiculous assists and he fits on pretty much any team. firebrand is equally qualified for top 5 if all you need is one really strong combination, while merely being kinda good in general.

And what about spencer!? IMO hes better than viper(maybe), vergil, morrigan, AND wolverine.
Wesker isn't top 5. Most players at high level agree with this. He gets lamed out. Also his damage output in level 3 Xfactor is inconsequential since any character can kill in level 3 xfactor.

Almost any character with an average keep away game beats Wesker. Because of this he has a good amount of losing matchups

Spencer is an overated character. He has bad buttons and gimmicks. he'll be falling slowly in tournament the more people learn how play against him. I mean all of his normals are negative. He can't continuously apply pressure
 

clowsui

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I don't think that is necessarily true either. A lot of top players are good at multiple games that are mechanically extremely different ex. Jwong (everything) Floe (SF4, SCV) Chris G (MvC3, KOF). The difference is that these players know how to transfer basic fundamentals in FG's (spacing, footsies, etc) to different games. While a lot of melee players have extremely good aerial footsies and spacing when they see it presented in another game they don't understand how to transfer their knowledge.
I don't know how tokido isn't your prime example after ss2k12 xD
 

choknater

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well, it's sort of hard to generalize smashers as a whole... many of us do like other fighting games.

i play ice climbers in melee, who are a ground based reaction/punish character with some slow moving and walling projectiles. i play them because i don't like tech chasing or guessing, i like extremely hard punishes and forcing hard situations on my opponent. basically i try to reduce the mindgames haha

i do the same in marvel. in marvel 2 i liked strider and spiral and enjoyed chip teams. in marvel 3 i have never dropped hsien ko's gold armor assist since day 1, and i've used her for both keepaway teams and offensive teams. i'm not an excellent marvel player by any means, but i think it shows that i know what is cheap and i know how to strategize in other games as long as i learn the mechanics. what pervades all the games i play is that i don't like guessing, so i make strategies that let me not have to guess and still get huge punishes.

fundamentals are great, and you can learn them in many different games. each player has the capacity to learn what works in a game and apply it to other games, and each player will have his own personal preferences and tendencies.
 

clowsui

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So uh Goggles I'd like to note that at the tournament you went to OMG itz Andre made top 5, and Mike Ross made top 8.

Your result is officially invalid
 
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