Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ErenJager]

Even then, I still hear that people think that one is apparently garbage and "low-effort".



I know what an icon is, maybe the better word is influential? I seriously doubt Shonen, or Akira Toriyama's art would even be a thing without that character. Goku is totally right up there, but Astro Boy literally turned Japan on it's head back in the day. He's the character that birthed manga, and anime for that matter. I totally get what you're saying with Mickey Mouse and Snow White, but that's really not a fair comparison. I think people who aren't from Japan underestimate how iconic he is because just he's such an old character and because of the fact that he isn't being used much currently.

Astro Boy is older.
Thats it.

Watch Dragon Ball and DBZ, you'll literally see Toriyamas influence in everything.

 

[StormC]

Just because a game doesn't use all the previous side characters doesn't mean it's "bare minimum".

Animal Buddies weren't side characters, they were essential parts of the trilogy's gameplay, especially in 2 and 3 where you had whole levels dedicated to playing as them. Meanwhile K. Rool and the Kremlings featured in every Donkey Kong game between 1994 and 2007 besides Jungle Beat. As I said though, Tropical Freeze was much better about using the Kongs, so props for that, though I miss the days when I got to play as characters besides DK in single player. I just really feel like the series has been sorely missing these elements and they're a big reason why I love it so much. While I'm sure K. Rool is returning to the series sooner than later, I'd like to see the other things addressed as well - and I'm now worried that Retro won't get to finish off the trilogy they started, if it's true they're working on Star Fox instead.

 

[TheMilkmann]

Anything new/interesting?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Anything new/interesting?

No so far.
Recofirmed shulks sexy trowsers though.

 

[Blargg888]

Donkey Kong Country cannot truly "return" without its main villain.

The time to experiment and take risks is not when the series only gets a game every 3-4 years and hasn't gotten a proper installment in over a decade.

K. Rool being missing from DKCR and TF does NOT make them "improper installments".

Both of those games were fantastic. Especially Tropical Freeze.

 

[Deleted member]

If they bring the Kremlings back, i hope that they don't pull an Enter The Dragonfly.

 

[Noipoi]

If they bring the Kremlings back, i hope that they don't pull an Enter The Dragonfly.

What happened in Enter the Dragonfly?

 

[KingofKoopas]

Gonna be honest, I'm bored. Been waiting for Ryu Hayabusa to come up as a subject to link this.. hasnt happened... sooooo


Ryu Hayabusa

What happened in Enter the Dragonfly?

-Has PTSD Flashbacks over Enter the Dragonfly-







You dont WANNA know.

 

[Deleted member]

What happened in Enter the Dragonfly?

They brought Ripto back... When he died in lava back in Spyro 2.

He returned, but without any reason and logic.

 

[Pazzo.]

Anyone have the "Adjustable fighter selection" echo fighter template? I need to make another Zelda meme.

 

[osby]

Gonna be honest, I'm bored. Been waiting for Ryu Hayabusa to come up as a subject to link this.. hasnt happened... sooooo


Ryu Hayabusa

Honestly, there are times when I wait certain games to be talked in order to put their music, too, otherwise I'd just spam music videos.

EDIT: Btw, this track is on fire, thanks.

 

[StormC]

Gonna be honest, I'm bored. Been waiting for Ryu Hayabusa to come up as a subject to link this.. hasnt happened... sooooo


Ryu Hayabusa

Ryu Hayabusa feels like one of those third party characters that just "makes sense" along the lines of Mega Man and Simon Belmont. I'm surprised there isn't more discussion/requests for him. I don't see him getting into this game, but I think he stands a solid chance for the future... whatever that looks like.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Ryu Hayabusa feels like one of those third party characters that just "makes sense" along the lines of Mega Man and Simon Belmont. I'm surprised there isn't more discussion/requests for him. I don't see him getting into this game, but I think he stands a solid chance for the future... whatever that looks like.

For sure as DLC i am certain, aside from Bill Rizer from Contra he's the LAST NES All Star. That and Tecmo-Koei been really tight with nintendo as of late.

Question is which of the DOA ninjas would be his echo cuz if ryu is in and heihachi could be in why not throw one of them in too.

 

[Robertman2]

They brought Ripto back... When he died in lava back in Spyro 2.

He returned, but without any reason and logic.

lol like that matters in a cartoony game like spyro

Animal Buddies weren't side characters, they were essential parts of the trilogy's gameplay, especially in 2 and 3 where you had whole levels dedicated to playing as them. Meanwhile K. Rool and the Kremlings featured in every Donkey Kong game between 1994 and 2007 besides Jungle Beat. As I said though, Tropical Freeze was much better about using the Kongs, so props for that, though I miss the days when I got to play as characters besides DK in single player. I just really feel like the series has been sorely missing these elements and they're a big reason why I love it so much. While I'm sure K. Rool is returning to the series sooner than later, I'd like to see the other things addressed as well - and I'm now worried that Retro won't get to finish off the trilogy they started, if it's true they're working on Star Fox instead.

From what I've heard, Star Fox is a side project after the main one hit some development snags, but who knows

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well... it's ok, but... the post you have quoted is from Luigifan18, how is it possible that it results as quoted from me?
lol

I'm sure I just removed the wrong quote source when trimming the post down.

 

[StormC]

For sure as DLC i am certain, aside from Bill Rizer from Contra he's the LAST NES All Star. That and Tecmo-Koei been really tight with nintendo as of late.

Question is which of the DOA ninjas would be his echo cuz if ryu is in and heihachi could be in why not throw one of them in too.

While Hayabusa could be DLC (and I'd be happy if he was), I feel like he will be competing with other third party characters that are either more popular or more contemporary, like Crash, Rayman, Banjo-Kazooie, or possibly even Sora. But I frankly have no idea what DLC will look like for this game.

 

[Luigifan18]

I mean...it KINDA can. Because you can write the circumstances of a person death in it like, "Mary went home and hung herself." and they'll just go and do that.

So it's possible for him to be, like, "Goku kills Naruto and then dies from his injuries."

Well... it's ok, but... the post you have quoted is from Luigifan18, how is it possible that it results as quoted from me?
lol

I'm sure I just removed the wrong quote source when trimming the post down.

No, the post says the quote is from me. What's all the confusion over?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Animal Buddies weren't side characters, they were essential parts of the trilogy's gameplay, especially in 2 and 3 where you had whole levels dedicated to playing as them. Meanwhile K. Rool and the Kremlings featured in every Donkey Kong game between 1994 and 2007 besides Jungle Beat. As I said though, Tropical Freeze was much better about using the Kongs, so props for that, though I miss the days when I got to play as characters besides DK in single player. I just really feel like the series has been sorely missing these elements and they're a big reason why I love it so much. While I'm sure K. Rool is returning to the series sooner than later, I'd like to see the other things addressed as well - and I'm now worried that Retro won't get to finish off the trilogy they started, if it's true they're working on Star Fox instead.

I think Retro working on a another title won't stop them from making a third Donkey Kong Country game.

 

[Sharkarat]

Even though she seems to have been chosen before the ballot, the actual placements we got on Bayonetta (1st Europe, top 5 America) I feel is pretty reasonable looking at the bigger context.

• People were already beginning to treat her as Nintendo's (because they paid to make her game).
• Her game was relatively recent, only half a year before the ballot and she got a pretty big amount of exposure through directs.
• She's the Title and main character of her own series, and had little comepetition with other Wiiu releases from nintendo, because most of those already had their main character. Most of her competitior are:
  • secondary characters in their series: Ashley, Bandana Dee, Waluigi, Skull Kid, Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Geno. This means less focus, and doesn't get the little bonus for bringing stages/music with them.
  • Much less relevant like Isaac.
• Smashboards probably underestimates her popularity, because she always got shot down for "Mature themes", meaning after a while people stopped bringing her up here.
• Also unlike most nintendo which is more child friendly she hits a more mature niche that Snake is the only other smash character to really hit.

So her unweighted placements (meaning not counting that 1st place realizable), it doesn't seems too out of place.

 

[ErenJager]

Gonna be honest, I'm bored. Been waiting for Ryu Hayabusa to come up as a subject to link this.. hasnt happened... sooooo


Ryu Hayabusa

-Has PTSD Flashbacks over Enter the Dragonfly-

You dont WANNA know.

I feel like if Ryu Hayabusa gets in, it'll be much like Simon Belmont. Where in there is some fan demand but not like Ridley or KKR levels of fan demand. It'll just have be Sakurai taking notice.

If you look at the third party companies involved in Smash. Pretty much all of them except Sega had their represented franchises on the arcade and NES era, and those franchises then continued on into today or still roughly relevant given a companies distribution frequency.

Which leaves Koei Tecmo as the last remaining third party that fits the bill. Given their working relationship with Nintendo on Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors. I'm surprised we havent seen any involvement in Smash yet.

I'd love to see Ryu Hayabusa and potentially Impa from HW. Impa from HW would fit that trend of every LoZ characters reps a different game too. Even though it was a spin off.. It had 3 games and was popular.

Plus I want a monster rancher trophy or something.

 

[Deleted member]

On the whole Bayonetta Ballot Conspiracy Theory thing, I have this to say;
It doesn't matter. Regardless of weather you like it or not, Bayonetta's in Smash now. It happened. Three years ago. Move on. Shaddup.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

On the whole Bayonetta Ballot Conspiracy Theory thing, I have this to say;
It doesn't matter. Regardless of weather you like it or not, Bayonetta's in Smash now. It happened. Three years ago. Move on. Shaddup.

But we could have gotten MY favourite insteeeaaaaaaaaad

 

[OddCrow]

Hot Take: people might be sleeping on Andy (advance wars), Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Tingle, Paper Mario and Travis Touchdown. I don't think they are all likely, but they are all in a certain range of possible but not ultra popular online (a small percentage of overall smashers)

There's so much hype around a certain group of 5-7 fighters that people seem so sure they know what's left.

The trend with reveals so far seems to be misdirection. Sakurai is trying to surprise us. Some people catch on quick, but I've watched a lot of reaction videos that follow these trends -

Reveal Trailer - Splatoon? Splatoon 1 port? Wait. SMASH!?!

Without the music leak for Simon people would have been surprised, like they were for Richter.

K. rool was legit sakurai having a laugh at us (from what I can gather, he and his team watch/have watched reaction videos. he voices dedede) with the dedede impostor gag

Isabelle - Animal Crossing??? Smash!!? Oh she's just a Villager ech-wait she's not an echo! Tom Nook for smash? wait... ANIMAL CROSSING?

 

[KingofKoopas]

While Hayabusa could be DLC (and I'd be happy if he was), I feel like he will be competing with other third party characters that are either more popular or more contemporary, like Crash, Rayman, Banjo-Kazooie, or possibly even Sora. But I frankly have no idea what DLC will look like for this game.

It is hardly a Zero-sum game when it comes to DLC, we don't know how theyll handle it other than this time no veterans are dlc.

I feel like if Ryu Hayabusa gets in, it'll be much like Simon Belmont. Where in there is some fan demand but not like Ridley or KKR levels of fan demand. It'll just have be Sakurai taking notice.

If you look at the third party companies involved in Smash. Pretty much all of them except Sega had their represented franchises on the arcade and NES era, and those franchises then continued on into today or still roughly relevant given a companies distribution frequency.

Which leaves Koei Tecmo as the last remaining third party that fits the bill. Given their working relationship with Nintendo on Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors. I'm surprised we havent seen any involvement in Smash yet.

I'd love to see Ryu Hayabusa and potentially Impa from HW. Impa from HW would fit that trend of every LoZ characters reps a different game too. Even though it was a spin off.. It had 3 games and was popular.

Plus I want a monster rancher trophy or something.

Yeah pretty much this. Anyone else would be pure Sakurai Magic, but Koei Tecmo is really the last third party that wouldnt require much of that. They have the history with Nintendo, theyre tight with Nintendo, They are a staple of gaming in a couple genres, and Hayabusa was pretty much the one who got them to that point. So throw him in with maybe a Kasumi/Ayane Echo Fighter as a bonus.


also maybe someone from dynasty or samurai Warriors. Because it would make the net explode.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I really don't get why some people say "X character isn't popular/wouldn't have done well in the ballot" and use that character's amount of presence on these forums or in that 2015 fan-poll data as evidence.

i.e. Sora did a lot better on a poll outside of the Smash Bros. reddit's random-bracket poll (I think 1st place? It was an Italian poll), and Skull Kid won a big VGTribune poll that had over 1 million votes and had 350k in the final round (votes spread across different characters, but still; though it was 2012, I think this is enough to show popularity, considering Majora's Mask was released in the later 90's). If that's not enough, Dark Samus was said to be highly-requested but didn't show up at all in the 2015 fan-poll data.

We shouldn't assume a character didn't do well in the ballot based on the hardcore community, especially since the ballot was global and was more-likely to be seen by everyone and more Smash fans who don't care to partake in forums and reddit.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

On the whole Bayonetta Ballot Conspiracy Theory thing, I have this to say;
It doesn't matter. Regardless of weather you like it or not, Bayonetta's in Smash now. It happened. Three years ago. Move on. Shaddup.

Exactly! Even if she won the Smash Ballot, we still got some other highly requested characters from it later on like K. Rool. So that's a win, win case in my book.

 

[staindgrey]

I think Retro working on a another title won't stop them from making a third Donkey Kong Country game.

It will if they/Nintendo decide it's not what they want to do.

If memory serves correct (I could be wrong, don't feel like looking it up) the only reason Tropical Freeze even happened was because Retro specifically asked to do it so they could implement ideas they couldn't do on the older Wii hardware. If Nintendo isn't blown away by DKCR sales and Retro wants to do something else, there's no guarantee another DKCR gets made.

 

[StormC]

Skull Kid won a big VGTribune poll that had over 1 million votes and had 350k in the final round (though it was 2012, I think this is enough to show popularity, considering Majora's Mask was released in the later 90's). If that's not enough, Dark Samus was said to be highly-requested but didn't show up at all in the 2015 fan-poll data.

The Skull Kid poll has been known to be heavily botted, and being an Assist Trophy likely hurt his presence on the ballot (since obviously it wasn't known that he was an Assist Trophy in 2012).

K. Rool is the only character where Sakurai specifically said he used data from the ballot. Chrom and Dark Samus were said to be popular, but we can't say for sure they came from the ballot.

 

[ErenJager]

While Hayabusa could be DLC (and I'd be happy if he was), I feel like he will be competing with other third party characters that are either more popular or more contemporary, like Crash, Rayman, Banjo-Kazooie, or possibly even Sora. But I frankly have no idea what DLC will look like for this game.

I can see DLC going one of two ways... Either Sakurai finally starts letting Western owned IP playable on the roster... Or he continues to not.

If you look at things like verge saying minecraft content... Possibly indicating playable... Also shovel knight being an assist (Which is a change of pace consider Rayman was just a trophy in Smash 4).
Then i'd say 100% expect that holy trinity of Banjo, Crash, and Rayman... But if we keep seeing Rayman just a trophy and we still see Sakurai firm on the Japanese owned roster... Then suddenly I think Ryu Hayabusa becomes much more likely for DLC.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If they bring back more animal buddies in the next DKC I hope they speed them up. Rattly isn't an issue with the close-up camera of the old games but Returns and Tropical Freeze are more zoomed out and demand faster movement. Squacks levels are a huge slog, although I could easily imagine those being fixed rather easily. En Gaurd should be really easily to implement though, even with underwater levels being different then in past games.

My one condition is just that they never bring back Candy Kong, or if they do tgen heavily redesign her. Cranky supposedly being a """gorilla""" weirds me enough as is, but Candy is far, far worse.

 

[osby]

I really don't get why some people say "X character isn't popular/wouldn't have done well in the ballot" and use that character's presence on these forums or in that 2015 fan-poll data as evidence.

i.e. Sora did a lot better on a poll outside of the Smash Bros. reddit's random-bracket poll (I think 1st place? It was an Italian poll), and Skull Kid won a big VGTribune poll that had over 1 million votes and had 350k in the final round (votes spread across different characters, but still; though it was 2012, I think this is enough to show popularity, considering Majora's Mask was released in the later 90's). If that's not enough, Dark Samus was said to be highly-requested but didn't show up at all in the 2015 fan-poll data.

We shouldn't assume a character didn't do well in the ballot based on the hardcore community, especially since the ballot was global and was more-likely to be seen by everyone and more Smash fans who don't care to partake in forums and reddit.

Nah, only pools that matter are the ones my fave got a high place.

The Skull Kid poll has been known to be heavily botted, and being an Assist Trophy likely hurt his presence on the ballot (since obviously it wasn't known that he was an Assist Trophy in 2012).

K. Rool is the only character where Sakurai specifically said he used data from the ballot. Chrom and Dark Samus were said to be popular, but we can't say for sure they came from the ballot.

Nice, not even two million people voted in the ballot, it'd be a bad idea pulling everyone from there.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No, the post says the quote is from me. What's all the confusion over?

I went back and edited it to have the right person quoted.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I can see DLC going one of two ways... Either Sakurai finally starts letting Western owned IP playable on the roster... Or he continues to not.

If you look at things like verge saying minecraft content... Possibly indicating playable... Also shovel knight being an assist (Which is a change of pace consider Rayman was just a trophy in Smash 4).
Then i'd say 100% expect that holy trinity of Banjo, Crash, and Rayman... But if we keep seeing Rayman just a trophy and we still see Sakurai firm on the Japanese owned roster... Then suddenly I think Ryu Hayabusa becomes much more likely for DLC.

Nintendo is always gonna bias japanese companies to work with, its easier to work with them (language barrier) and its a japan thing (gaijin).

 

[TheCJBrine]

The Skull Kid poll has been known to be heavily botted, and being an Assist Trophy likely hurt his presence on the ballot (since obviously it wasn't known that he was an Assist Trophy in 2012).

K. Rool is the only character where Sakurai specifically said he used data from the ballot. Chrom and Dark Samus were said to be popular, but we can't say for sure they came from the ballot.

Still, if they're popular but we don't see it in the hardcore community's polls, then it's still possible they did good in the ballot, or that Sakurai is looking at more sources.

I was also not aware of the VGTribune poll being botted; though, I did see in the comments, someone mentioned Skull Kid not getting much more votes than Mega Man in the final round, tbh.

 

[Noipoi]

My one condition is just that they never bring back Candy Kong, or if they do tgen heavily redesign her. Cranky supposedly being a """gorilla""" weirds me enough as is, but Candy is far, far worse.

You've never seen a curvy Gorilla with blonde hair in a tank top?
Man, you must go to some lame Zoos...

 

[osby]

I thought Candy Kong was just Donkey Kong with the Super Crown.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The Skull Kid poll has been known to be heavily botted, and being an Assist Trophy likely hurt his presence on the ballot (since obviously it wasn't known that he was an Assist Trophy in 2012).

K. Rool is the only character where Sakurai specifically said he used data from the ballot. Chrom and Dark Samus were said to be popular, but we can't say for sure they came from the ballot.

I could see Skull Kid getting in the same way Ridley did. Sakurai made it perfectly cleared that he was a Assist Trophy and not a playable character when he showed him off in the pic of the day back then so he knows he's popular. So I could see Sakurai making it up to the Skull Kid fans like did with the Ridley fans for Ultimate.

 

[osby]

I could see Skull Kid getting in the same way Ridley did. Sakurai made it perfectly cleared that he was a Assist Trophy and not a playable character when he showed him off in the pic of the day back then so he knows he's popular. So I could see Sakurai making it up to the Skull Kid fans like did with the Ridley fans for Ultimate.

Same can be said for Waluigi and Lyn, even if Sakurai didn't said anything outright about them. I think Skull Kid has a chance but I don't think he's the only one in the same boat with Ridley ()

 

[StormC]

Same can be said for Waluigi and Lyn, even if Sakurai didn't said anything outright about them.

Well, he did have... this to say about Waluigi.

https://i.redd.it/0zqmz5gto4r01.jpg

"Just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll make it into the battle" seems to about sum up his opinion of the character.

EDIT: Damn image breaking...

 

[Pazzo.]

Here I am trying to upload fake joke leaks and the site is having trouble smh