Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Wyoming]

Even if they aren't as memorable as K. Rool, the Tikis and Snowmads are severely underappreciated. Instead of slapping on K. Rool and the Kremlings as the games' antagonists, Nintendo made a whole new set of enemies and bosses, none of which are really as bad as people say they are.

I get that K. Rool is popular, but like I said earlier, I think Smash is genuinely the only reason why people want/wanted the Kremlings back so much. If we were in an alternate universe where K. Rool made it in Smash and both DKCR games featured the Kremlings as the antagonists, I can almost guarantee you that people would've complained of overexposure. "K. Rool is literally Bowser 2.0. Can't we get a unique villain for once instead reusing the same ones over and over?"

Huh? Why would DK fans hate the idea of their hypothetical recurring villain in Smash?

If non-DK fans is what you mean, then those guys don't matter when it comes to demand from that said series. Nor do I think people would complain he has too much exposure. Two extra games (after a hiatus, mind you) ain't gonna kill anyone.

 

[staindgrey]

Roster was a 10/10 at E3, so no complaints on my end.

EDIT: Oh, you mean the demo...uh...no Shulk's an issue, but I’ve still got Ness and Ryu. Solid 7/10 roster.

No Daisy. 0/10 and also it can die in a fire.

 

[Deleted member]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I actually just order Golden Sun on Amazon. Hope it's good.

If you ask me, the characters I feel aren't being talked about enough are Leon, Dante, and Ryu Hayabusa. EDIT: A Dragon Quest character too.

Uhh...no? Not really?

Dante gets talked about occasionally, especially with the rumors. Part of my skepticism is Capcom getting three unique reps, similarly with Leon, while every other third party has one or two in the base game. Third Party characters can be tricky, as previously, there's only been two in the base game. Still on my most wanted list. And Ryu Hayabusa is one of the few remaining NES icons still not in Smash. I'd also like Ghost 'n Goblins representation, if not a character, a stage with that iconic music.

 

[Fenriraga]

i want to send nomura into the sun for this roxas fight

Ohohohoho, you think Roxas is bad now, wait until the Data Rematches.

I've done several Critical runs of KH2, and once you figure him out, Roxas is actually one of the easier Org 13 battles. Not to be the guy who goes "lol just guard" but... Guarding rips apart literally almost all of Roxas's approaches, especially if you have Counterguard. The timing takes some getting used to, but just keep guarding until you see openings. Don't spam it though, learn the timing.

Of course, things get tricky when he does his Limit Break. If you're doing the data fight, it's cake, since you just need to glide out of the way of his orbs, but since you don't get glide UNTIL you beat Roxas, that's obviously not an option. If you have the magic for protect, do that. If you don't- and you probably won't thanks to cure- hug the absolute very edge of the stage and hold right. It's your best bet.

Equip MP rage if you haven't already. If he wails on you, at least you'll probably get enough magic back to hopefully cure after.

Also, Limit Form absolutely WRECKS Roxas. Not only is it a free full heal when you transform, and you can't get anti form, but you're dang near invincible when doing Sonic Blade AND you get health back every time it lands. Combine that with MP rage and you can just spam Sonic Blade until the end of time. And if you have DRIVE rage, then that's even better, because he'll just fill up your drive gauge again and you can just transform.

And if you're somehow lucky enough to get the reaction command that lets you steal Oathkeeper and Oblivion for yourself, do EVERYTHING you can not to let him take it back. It does insanely wicked damage to him, especially the finisher at the end.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

That's physically impossible for me because i've never played a Mega Man game.


I only got up to Twoson, before you get to the happy village. It's pretty wacky, and kinda hard. I'm still getting the hang of the battle mechanics.
The whole game has a really out-there feel to it, if that makes sense. I like it so far, but I haven't gotten far enough to really judge.
(i'm still sick and I hate it)

That tone shifts drastically during the fourth section of the game. Once the Department Store Event happens, it gets reaaaal serious.

 

[StormC]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

I think Dante would be cool. With Leon I'm just not sure how well he could translate to Smash, but if anyone can prove me wrong, it's Sakurai.

Resident Evil is probably the most successful Japanese third party not yet in Smash. It's just tricky to implement it well.

 

[Noipoi]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

I literally, physically could not care less. 100% total apathy.
Does that count as not being cool with them?

 

[Deleted member]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

Pretty much just personal preference for me. I don't like the games, so I wouldn't be a fan of it and would like other characters instead.

However, if they were in Smash, it wouldn't ruin anything for me. I could just simply not use the character if I don't like 'em. I already do that with Dark Pit and Bayo, so I'd be good.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

All right people? I know you all LOVE to speculate about the playable fighters, but here I am with a game, debate about something that's really been bothering me. Assist Trophies. Hear me out, at present we have exactly 40 Assist Trophies, and from the Directs we know there's at LEAST 10 more.

So.. I'm going to drop the list of all past ATs that have yet to appear and say yay or nay to their re-appearance. Let's see what the other players think about this and see if you feel this is as strange as I do.


1. Chain Chomp (Very likely)
2. Lakitu and Spinies (Not as likely to return)
3. Skull Kid (Possibly Boss or Playable)
4. Tingle (Return to stage Element, not happening)
5. Nightmare (Very Likely)
6/7 Magnus/Phosphora (Very likely one or both will return, this is the biggest WTF to me)
8. Kat & Ana (Mainstay of the series, no reason to drop)
9. Shadow (Possibly Playable)
10. Mr. Resetti (Gone still)
11. Elec Man (Maybe)
12. Barbara (Not likely)
13. Devil (Not likely)
14. Dillon (Strong Maybe)
15. Excitebikes (Not Sure)
16. Helirin (Not Likely)
17. Infantry and Tanks (Not Likely)
18. Isaac (Most likely playable or not at all - Isaac fans I mean no disrespect! I'm one of you!)
19. Jill (Not sure)
20. Ray Mk III (Not likely)
21. Sable Prince (Very Likely)
22. Saki Amamiya (Very Likely)

Now, on my end I have no idea what other potential NEW Assist Trophies there are, so I'm not even going to try but I'd love to see your thoughts.

 

[staindgrey]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

Big difference between those two, in my mind, is one of them starred in a huge Nintendo title. The other is Dante.

Also I'd prefer Jill if we're picking RE protagonists.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

Because people are stupid, Dante owes his entire existance to Nintendo because Devil May Cry was birth from an Alpha version of Resident Evil 4 (gamecube exclusive) that was deemed to be too action oriented.. (think about that for a minute while remembering RE5 and RE6)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Anyone feeling fat and sassy?

no

No Daisy. 0/10 and also it can die in a fire.

Can’t have without

 

[Deleted member]

Because people are stupid, Dante owes his entire existance to Nintendo because Devil May Cry was birth from an Alpha version of Resident Evil 4 (gamecube exclusive) that was deemed to be too action oriented.. (think about that for a minute while remembering RE5 and RE6)

I mean, people have the right to like what they like and dislike what they dislike. That doesn't make them stupid, it just means they have their own preferences and opinions.

 

[Deleted member]

Dante is ugly.

White hair with red clothes sucks.

 

[staindgrey]

I think Dante would be cool. With Leon I'm just not sure how well he could translate to Smash, but if anyone can prove me wrong, it's Sakurai.

Resident Evil is probably the most successful Japanese third party not yet in Smash. It's just tricky to implement it well.

Snake proves it's very doable. Leon could actually pretty easily be implemented as a semi-clone of Snake, with different grenade attributes, some knife moves and a different upB.

Though I'd prefer REmake Jill, RE4 Leon seems like it would be Nintendo's first pick for a single RE representative, considering RE4's notoriety and importance on the Gamecube.

 

[Deleted member]

Dante is ugly.

White hair with red clothes sucks.

So is DmC Dante okay then?

 

[Zinith]

Anyone feeling fat and sassy?

<------------------

 

[Deleted member]

So is DmC Dante okay then?

Yes.
But he needs more pizza.

 

[StormC]

Because people are stupid, Dante owes his entire existance to Nintendo because Devil May Cry was birth from an Alpha version of Resident Evil 4 (gamecube exclusive) that was deemed to be too action oriented.. (think about that for a minute while remembering RE5 and RE6)

Resident Evil 4 was originally developed as a PS2 title. It only later became a GameCube exclusive, this is a pretty big reach.

My hope would actually be if Dante somehow got into Smash, his series got released on the Switch, like we're finally getting now with Final Fantasy VII.

 

[Pakky]

Yes.
But he needs more pizza.

So he can be fat and sassy :D

BOOM brought it around baby!

 

[Deleted member]

I think Dante would be cool. With Leon I'm just not sure how well he could translate to Smash, but if anyone can prove me wrong, it's Sakurai.

Resident Evil is probably the most successful Japanese third party not yet in Smash. It's just tricky to implement it well.

I actually made a moveset for Leon. I agree RE would be tricky to bring over into Smash, but I think it deserves it.

I literally, physically could not care less. 100% total apathy.
Does that count as not being cool with them?

I meant that as in some people seem to have this idea if someone wants either of those two in Smash, they're the "weird guy" or something. It just seems like an unpopular opinion around here.

Big difference between those two, in my mind, is one of them starred in a huge Nintendo title. The other is Dante.

Also I'd prefer Jill if we're picking RE protagonists.

I was torn between Jill, Chirs, and Leon, but went with Leon because Chris and Jill have already been in a fighting game. And yes, the other is Dante. Dante's awesome.

 

[Robertman2]

Oh just wait till post-game...

I'm going to Birth By Sleep the second I see the credits roll

What difficulty are you on? I'm slowly working on the KH collections myself (I nearly finished 1.5 last year, but restarted it a week or so ago to play that sweet, sweet 60 FPS version on PS4 instead), and I'm kinda scared to try any of the games above normal, lol.



What do you think of what you've played so far? I always love seeing people try the series. (Also, hope you're feeling better! Just getting over being sick myself.)

I'm on Normal, 2.5 PS4 version.

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

I want Dante and Leon so badly. I just don't feel like they'll be base roster tho

Also Resident Evil is hard as hell to implement.

Ohohohoho, you think Roxa's is bad now, wait until the Data Rematches.

I've done several Critical runs of KH2, and once you figure him out, Roxas is actually one of the easier Org 13 battles. Not to be the guy who goes "lol just guard" but... Guarding rips apart literally almost all of Roxas's approaches, especially if you have Counterguard. The timing takes some getting used to, but just keep guarding until you see openings. Don't spam it though, learn the timing.

Of course, things get tricky when he does his Limit Break. If you're doing the data fight, it's cake, since you just need to glide out of the way of his orbs, but since you don't get glide UNTIL you beat Roxas, that's obviously not an option. If you have the magic for protect, do that. If you don't- and you probably won't thanks to cure- hug the absolute very edge of the stage and hold right. It's your best bet.

Equip MP rage if you haven't already. If he wails on you, at least you'll probably get enough magic back to hopefully cure after.

Also, Limit Form absolutely WRECKS Roxas. Not only is it a free full heal when you transform, and you can't get anti form, but you're dang near invincible when doing Sonic Blade AND you get health back every time it lands. Combine that with MP rage and you can just spam Sonic Blade until the end of time.

And if you're somehow lucky enough to get the reaction command that lets you steal Oathkeeper and Oblivion for yourself, do EVERYTHING you can not to let him take it back. It does insanely wicked damage to him, especially the finisher at the end.

When do I get MP Rage? I don't think I have it yet.

And I should use more Limit Form in general. I only used it enough to get Dodge Roll

 

[StormC]

Snake proves it's very doable. Leon could actually pretty easily be implemented as a semi-clone of Snake, with different grenade attributes, some knife moves and a different upB.

Though I'd prefer REmake Jill, RE4 Leon seems like it would be Nintendo's first pick for a single RE representative, considering RE4's notoriety and importance on the Gamecube.

Snake has certain characteristics that make him stand out though and feel very "Metal Gear-y." His crawl, his box taunt, his punch-punch-kick combo, the focus on planting traps, the controllable Nikita, even the cypher is distinctly Metal Gear. Leon would be more generic in comparison, to outsiders he's just a guy with some explosives since player characters in Resident Evil themselves don't have a lot of gameplay quirks... unless you want Chris to appear and punch boulders.

 

[staindgrey]

Because people are stupid, Dante owes his entire existance to Nintendo because Devil May Cry was birth from an Alpha version of Resident Evil 4 (gamecube exclusive) that was deemed to be too action oriented.. (think about that for a minute while remembering RE5 and RE6)

RE5 is just RE4 without the Scary Spain color pallet. It's the exact same game mechanics, exact same stop-to-shoot method of producing drama against limited AI, and the exact same "shoot stuff to get more ammo to shoot more stuff" style of risk and reward, which is inherently the exact opposite of every RE game pre-RE4.

Co-op aside, RE5 is just RE4 in the sunshine. I'll never understand why RE4 is held up as "the best RE" and RE5 is somehow where things started going downhill.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Oy

Chris Redfield with Leon Kennedy as an echo

eh?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't care what anyone says, the Snowmads were fantastic. All of the boss fights aside from the pufferfish and maybe Lord Frederick were really memorable. Yes I even loved the ninja-viking-baboon, especially how he and his duplicates shared a lot of moves and animations with the Kongs. Even the generic mooks had their own charm, just like the archer penguins who shot fish ftom their bows instead of arrows.

I'm not going to throw shade at K.Rool himself, he's a strong villain design, but most of the other kremlings are crocodiles themselves. The snowmads at least had some more species diversity.

 

[Robertman2]

RE5 is just RE4 without the Scary Spain color pallet. It's the exact same game mechanics, exact same stop-to-shoot method of producing drama against limited AI, and the exact same "shoot stuff to get more ammo to shoot more stuff" style of risk and reward, which is inherently the exact opposite of every RE game pre-RE4.

Co-op aside, RE5 is just RE4 in the sunshine. I'll never understand why RE4 is held up as "the best RE" and RE5 is somehow where things started going downhill.

It just wasn't tightly made as RE4.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

<------------------

... You, or the homie Yosh?

 

[KingofKoopas]

RE5 is just RE4 without the Scary Spain color pallet. It's the exact same game mechanics, exact same stop-to-shoot method of producing drama against limited AI, and the exact same "shoot stuff to get more ammo to shoot more stuff" style of risk and reward, which is inherently the exact opposite of every RE game pre-RE4.

Co-op aside, RE5 is just RE4 in the sunshine. I'll never understand why RE4 is held up as "the best RE" and RE5 is somehow where things started going downhill.

Welll RE5 kinda showed that the RE4 gameplay didnt have much staying power

(that and the controversy of a game about a zombie apocalypse set in africa has you *LE GASP* fighting African Zombies

)
Edit: also Co-op Factually kills Survival Horror. Proven in RE5, Cemented in Dead Space 3.

 

[Zinith]

Oy

Chris Redfield with Leon Kennedy as an echo

eh?

Can Leon punch boulders?

I didn't think so or maybe he did, I don't know RE...

 

[staindgrey]

Snake has certain characteristics that make him stand out though and feel very "Metal Gear-y." His crawl, his box taunt, his punch-punch-kick combo, the focus on planting traps, the controllable Nikita, even the cypher is distinctly Metal Gear. Leon would be more generic in comparison, to outsiders he's just a guy with some explosives since player characters in Resident Evil themselves don't have a lot of gameplay quirks... unless you want Chris to appear and punch boulders.

I actually do very much want Chris to show up and punch boulders, but he's already been well represented in MvC. (He's always on my main team. Love him to death.) But that's beside the point.

Alter Snake's jab combo to knife-knife-kick instead, and it fits Leon. Change the visual of his mine, and it fits Leon. What makes Leon difficult is that he's most known for his ridiculous knife fights and his pistol. If he's not allowed to shoot, you're instead going to have to use a whole lot of knife moves.

I also have no clue what his upB should be, since having Ada show up in a helicopter to lift him up seems a bit much.

 

[Diem]

I have a feeling Resident Evil might be complicated due to Capcom turning their back on Nintendo during the GameCube era. RE4 was supposed to be a huge Nintendo exclusive, but it wasn't even a year before they ported it to PS2 and that was moot. That may complicate things, though probably not enough if Sakurai really wanted to go for it.

Leon would probably be the most likely candidate, though, since RE4 was Nintendo exclusive, even if that exclusivity was short-lived. Jill was on two PS1 games first before the remake, which is her only tie to Nintendo.

Though I think the major issue is the moveset. With Snake, they had to give him a bunch of explosives because they didn't want him using guns. Bayonetta gets away with it because they're magic guns, I guess. But Leon just blowing people away with a shotgun probably wouldn't fly with the developers.

 

[Zinith]

... You, or the homie Yosh?

Both

 

[Fenriraga]

I'm going to Birth By Sleep the second I see the credits roll

I'm on Normal, 2.5 PS4 version.

I want Dante and Leon so badly. I just don't feel like they'll be base roster tho

Also Resident Evil is hard as hell to implement.

When do I get MP Rage? I don't think I have it yet.

And I should use more Limit Form in general. I only used it enough to get Dodge Roll

Oh yeah, that reminds me, spam Dodge roll when you're holding right to dodge his limit break. I think that helps if I remember correctly.

And you might not have it yet depending on the weapon you chose at the beginning of the game. Do you have Drive Rage? That's just as good.

Also, if you use Quick Run from Wisdom Form, I'd maybe unequip that.

And yeah man, Limit is busted. It's probably the best form in the game, honestly. Especially since it can be used Solo.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually made this moveset for Leon in regards to a question weeks ago.
3-hit jab: Leon punches his opponent and then slices his opponent with his trademark knife.
Dash Attack: Leon charges at the oppenent. Think Jill's MVC2 Hype Move, but without the flashy effects.

Tilt Attacks:
Forward Tilt: Pistol Fire. Leon fires his pistol at his opponent like in the Resident Evil games.
Up Tilt: Leon fires his Shotgun upwards.
Down Tilt: Leon does a low leg sweep.

Arieal Attacks:
Neutral Arieal: Leon stabs forward with his knife.
Foward Arial: Leon again fires his pistol forward.
Back Aerial: Leon throws a grenade backwards, exploding at any foes behind him.
Up Aerial: Leon fires his pistol upwards, this time with the upgrade that makes it fire really fast from RE2.
Down Aerial: Leon fires a Rocket Launcher downwards. This is most effect aerial move.

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash: Leon's signature kick from RE4.
Up Smash: Leon primes a grenade, and then throws it overhead at his opponent as it explodes.
Down Smash: Leon kicks downwards at his opponent, like Ganandorfs kick.

Specials:
*IMPORTANT NOTE* Leon's Neutral B and Special B have Ammo counters, meaning that they can only be used a maximum number of 5 times before it runs out. You will need to reload them using the Ammo selection with the Down B move. This is a reference to Resident Evil's focus on Item Management.
Neutral B: Grenade Launcher. Leon will launch three types of Grenades from the Grenade Launcher. Normal Grenades will ground the opponent (when the opponents are stuck in a hole), Incinerary Grenades will explode created a large fire that engulfs the opponent like Ness's Side B or Simon's Down B, and Flash Grenades will stun the opponents like Zero Suit Samus's Neutral B. Normal, Incinerary, and Flash Grenades are colored Green, Red, and Blue respectively.
Side B: Flamethrower. Leon fires the Flamethower. Like Bowser's and Charizard's Neautral B, but with greater range.
Up B: Desperate Leap. Leon launches himself upwards as he reaches for recover. Does not do damage, but has excellent recover to make up for it.
Down B: Item select. In line with Resident Evil's focus of item management, Leon can choose from three types of items; Herbs, Ammo, and Upgrades.
Herbs will restore 10% of Leon's health, Ammo will reload the ammunition need for his specials, and Upgrades will boost his attack power with firearms (any move that uses Pistol, Shotgun, Grenades, and Flamethrowers). These items also have limited uses, and can be used up to 3 times.

Final Smash: Titan Onslaught. Leon's Final Smash involves the Titan boss from RE2 appearing out of the ground and brutally attacking the opponent. While the Titan is busy attacking them, Leon will pull out his Rocket Launcher from RE4 saying "Game Over!", then fires at both the opponent and the Titan, finishing them off both.

Grab Attacks:
Pummel: Leon pistol whips the opponent.
Forward Throw: Leon preforms the move used to escape from zombies grip in the RE series.
Back Throw: Leon places his foot on the opponents chest, and throws them backwards.
Up Throw: Leon uppercuts his foe into the air.
Down Throw: Leon throw his opponent to the grow, and finishes them with a Grenade throw.

Other:
Appearance: His default outfit is his RE4 outfit, but his RE2 is an alternate costume.
Idel Animation: Leon will reload his Pistol like he does in RE4.
Taunt 1: "What's the matter? Scared?" Leon will twirl his knife as he says this.
Taunt 2: Leon will point his Pistol at his opponent as shout "Freeze!".
Taunt 3: Leon will say "Monsters. After this there'll be one less to worry about."

What do you all think?

 

[staindgrey]

Can Leon punch boulders?

I didn't think so or maybe he did, I don't know RE...

No, his ridiculous thing is melodramatic knife fighting.

Much less ridiculous than kidney punching a boulder.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just got home what'd I miss fellas

 

[Noipoi]

Just got home what'd I miss fellas

The usual.

 

[P.Kat]

Hi, its been a while everyone.

Real talk, I have no idea why so many people aren't cool with the idea of Leon or Dante being in Smash. I get that everyone has their preferances, but i don't get why some people see the idea as slander or something. I think they would be amazing additions, seeing as how both Resident Evil and Devil May Cry are beloved series by Capcom.

I have no interest or attachment to Leon, but Dante is my second wanted Capcom newcomer, and I'd welcome him with open arms (especially if he's eating Pizza for his victory scene). However, personally Ammy ranks higher than him in my list, with her being number one.