Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Blargg888]

I hope that the Sonic series gets a remix this time around.

Personally, the song I'd want them to remix would be this one:

 

[KMDP]

For Dixie, it honestly depends on what it means to be an Echo Fighter. My interpretation of Echo Fighters is that characters that in order to be an Echo Fighter, you must have moves that look and function in a similar manner. Lucina and Dark Pit may have altered damage/knockback for some of their moves and the latter may have two altered special attacks, but in practice all of those things are effectively the same as the original characters.

The defining trait of Echo Fighters being separate this time around seems to be in terms of personality. Peach is serene and graceful whereas Daisy is hyper and spunky; Pit is heroic and flighty (teehee) whereas Dark Pit is cocky and brash; Marth is gentle and emotional whereas Lucina is stoic and composed. These traits are shown in different idle animations, taunts, and victory poses (among other things) Basically, a character is an echo fighter if their moves function effectively (not literally) the same way as the originals, but have their own defining characteristics to set them apart.

Dixie, however, has much more. She has moves that physically differentiate her from Diddy, allowing her to do things Diddy can't and vice versa. And since Sakurai likes to pull from a character's home games as much as possible (unless there's certain circumstances preventing him from doing so), Dixie most likely would use her hair, among other weapons in her arsenal. Trying to incorporate her hair while also making her an Echo Fighter is way too much work for characters that are effectively glorified alts. That would require tweaking the base character (Diddy) so much that she would effectively have different moves. She wouldn't be an echo anymore.

Really, it's the same reason why Dr. Mario isn't considered an Echo. Despite having a pretty similar (if not he exact same skeleton) as Mario, he has different overall statistics in every area, and has his own unique moves as well. This is probably the reason why characters like Pichu and Young Link aren't Echoes too. There's simply too much that's different for them to be put in that category. A category that I believe Dixie would fall into as well.

And in all honesty, the whole Echo Fighter thing is really annoying. Because we don't have concrete statements on how a character is considered an Echo, we get debates like this that have no right answer due to lack of information. Those first four paragraphs I just wrote are all just based on my assumptions on how Echoes work. I could be completely wrong for all I know. These are just my opinions on why Dixie can't be an Echo fighter.

Also, hello.

As an Echo, she wouldn't even receive any unique specials or recovery that'd allow her to use her ponytail. Otherwise she'd be elevated to "Melee Clone"-status that Pichu, Young Link and Dr.Mario are currently being like in Ultimate.

Right now her being an Echo would mean she'd use Bubble Gun Popgun and Rocketbarrel Boost, taking them from Diddy at large, while there'd be nothing new programmed for her as an attack, aside from a possibility of a different Final Smash compared to Diddy. That's how expendable her unique ability would become if she were turned to an Echo for Diddy.

Also, ninja'd by @ReeseBalaski, but they put it better and faster than I did, too busy reading replies updated here.

I never was against her being a semi-clone, or tried to deny her similar appearance to Diddy here, though. My point still is that making her be a glorified alternate costume for Diddy just because she's similar to Diddy in appearance and bodybuild, would not make any sense to what she's capable in canon, and wouldn't please her fans in general if she was received that way.

If what ReeseBalaski and I believe Echo fighters to be is the correct distinction, then making Dixie an Echo Fighter just because she is superficially similar to Diddy in physical structure is incredibly shallow.

You can slot Dixie into the "Luigi-style Semi-Clone" designation easily, and I believe this is where she 'belongs' as a fighter.

"Luigi-style Semi-Clone" being: Has the same basic physical structure and many of the same moves, but also many different moves that set them apart greatly.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Young Link bit in the same lane, but depends on how much he differs from Melee at large. I think I'm more intrigued to play as again, though now with PKMN Trainer back in the mix. Pichu too?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Young Link bit in the same lane, but depends on how much he differs from Melee at large. I think I'm more intrigued to play as again, though now with PKMN Trainer back in the mix. Pichu too?

I'm just excited for Young Link because I'm a big Zelda fan

 

[Zerp]

Delphox is literally the worst designed starter I have ever seen. The model in XY was just.... atrocious as well. I love Pokemon (when it was good) and the starters. Imma keep it at that. Literally any other starter than that monstrosity pls. How did that Pokemon even get support?

Because some of us like Delphox? I always thought the design was cool personally, but that's just me.

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Pichu!

I hope that the Sonic series gets a remix this time around.

Personally, the song I'd want them to remix would be this one:

Sonic's OSTs are way too good to not get any remixes, I hope so too.

Also, I'll use this as a excuse to post the Sonic theme I want the most:

 

[KMDP]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

and .

 

[PolarisJunkie]

I'm honestly struggling to think of a better case in gaming of where a supporting character took over the franchise like Isabelle did.

It's sort of a hard thing to ignore no matter the pacifist nature of the franchise or her character.

I would say Morrigan from Darkstalkers since she practically transcended her own series (which is dead at this point) and is more recognizable as herself than she was when apart of her home series. But Isabelle seems to be on that path although her series is no where near dead.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

News is going around that the illustrator for the Golden Sun series just passed.

****

Shin Yamanouchi? Such a shame if this is true, especially considering that he'll never get to see if Isaac makes the cut.

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

If what ReeseBalaski and I believe Echo fighters to be is the correct distinction, then making Dixie an Echo Fighter just because she is superficially similar to Diddy in physical structure is incredibly shallow.

You can slot Dixie into the "Luigi-style Semi-Clone" designation easily, and I believe this is where she 'belongs' as a fighter.

"Luigi-style Semi-Clone" being: Has the same basic physical structure and many of the same moves, but also many different moves that set them apart greatly.

That's pretty much what Dixie-fans have been rallying for up to this point at the very least, and it's also what I'd love to see (with as much extra stuff if possible).

The fact that we should be now be expecting this kind of support to suddenly become seen as an excuse for Sakurai to add her as an Echo just to "meet the demand", baffles me to no end. Because that's going to end up more a big slap in the face for the fans than something great happening to Dixie - and also lump her among likes of more clonier counterparts to characters like Girl Marth, Orange Peach and Dark Pit, which she shouldn't even be.

I kind of have a big distaste on Echoes for that very reason.

vaanrose

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

His reason was that she wasn't a fighter, but outside of being mind controlled in TP and through Sheik Zelda's themselves aren't fighters. BotW Zelda, like Shiek and Tetra, was more part of the action than other Zelda's and "being a researcher" didn't stop her from sealing away Ganon with the full triforce. What Idon said could be the reason why she wasn't chosen.

Yeah, the excuse of "she's not a fighter" sounds a lot better than "we didn't want to/couldn't be bothered to update her moveset to match the new design". ALBW Zelda using the spells and the phantom is already a stretch but BOTW Zelda using them would be even weirder.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

in order...

- My brawl main for the longest time and one of my PM mains too. I love playing as him in every game and this game looks to be no exception.
- He's fun as heck, so I'm hoping they don't just make him "worse pikachu" this time again.
- If the changes are actually good, I may have a lot of fun with this character. Though honestly, might be the most complex character now, so we'll see how it pans out for me. I liked Shulk a lot, but Chrom was a miss. I'm weird with ambitious characters.
- SNAAAAKE. I wasn't the biggest fan of him in Brawl but I had fun
- I hope they're able to make this work w/o the chaingrabs
- HYUAH! idk, even this version of link didn't feel fun for me in Melee, but I'm always a fan of stuff like Pichu, so here's hoping

 

[DoctorSanity]

The thing I'm honestly hoping the most for is, if we do have an adventure mode-esque way to play, that there's minor cutscenes introducing new challengers approaching. Remember Luigi's entrance in Melee? I can never get enough of stuff like that happening to surprise me:

 

[BlondeLombax]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Long story short...
ALL OF THEM.

 

[Iridium]

Anyone here had a chance to play the Comic-Con demo yet?

Me, no, but you reminded me of something. IGN is livestreaming SSBU at about 9:40 P.M. tonight, so we will get more footage aside from what GameXplain has as of right now.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The thing I'm honestly hoping the most for is, if we do have an adventure mode-esque way to play, that there's minor cutscenes introducing new challengers approaching. Remember Luigi's entrance in Melee? I can never get enough of stuff like that happening to surprise me:

So weird to watch this because all I can now think of is how Modern Luigi would be too wimpy and uncharismatic to do this... hmh.

 

[MSmariosonic]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

The one with the box

 

[KMDP]

The thing I'm honestly hoping the most for is, if we do have an adventure mode-esque way to play, that there's minor cutscenes introducing new challengers approaching. Remember Luigi's entrance in Melee? I can never get enough of stuff like that happening to surprise me:

Yeah, this is something I want as well. I think I mentioned it a few weeks ago, back when I first joined.

 

[N3ON]

These are awesome! Can I use them in my sig?

For sure!

 

[Knight Dude]

Topic: Are there any characters you are currently not predicting to be in the base roster, but are keeping an eye on the real possibility of it happening? Right now, I am being wary of these characters possibly happening:

-Heihachi (Tekken)
-Lloyd Irving (Tales of)
-Saber Artoria (Fate)
-Hyouma Kyouma (Steins;Gate)
-Ashley (WarioWare)
-Dark Samus (Metroid)
-Excitebiker (Excitebike)
-Frogger (Frogger)
-Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
-Jill (Resident Evil)
-Mini-Kangaroo Nintendo Toy Mascot
-Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
-Ryu Hayabasa (Ninja Gaiden)

Half of these are from Japanese third-party franchises that I know are globally popular.

Ashley is said to be popular, so I guess she could make it. Dark Samus is pretty cool, though not nearly as popular as Ridley. Maybe she'll be an echo.

Personally I don't really want Sora that much, but he's requested too. Jill I'm doubting. Hayabusa's is video games most iconic ninja(aside from maybe Sub-Zero and Scorpion also being pretty iconic.)

Heihachi's someone I'm personally hoping for at this point. I've always been a Tekken fan.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm honestly struggling to think of a better case in gaming of where a supporting character took over the franchise like Isabelle did.

It's sort of a hard thing to ignore no matter the pacifist nature of the franchise or her character.

Ahem.
Okay maybe not as huge as Isabelle, but Ashley has definitely grown beyond Warioware in terms of popularity.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

It's a toss up between and for me. Ice Climbers was my first main in Melee before I switched to Marth, but I always loved going back to them. I was sad to see 'em go in Smash 4. I'm only really excited for Pokemon Trainer because I can play Ivysaur and Squirtle without also playing Charizard, which is what I hated about him in Brawl haha. I love the first two, but I was never a Charizard fan.

 

[UltimateWario]

Ahem.
Okay maybe not as huge as Isabelle, but Ashley has definitely grown beyond Warioware in terms of popularity.

Yeah, I really loved that big voiced intro that Ashley had where she gave the premise of the game, and the demo where Ashley was the star.

 

[Noipoi]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST LIKE NO ONE EVER WAS.

*DUN DUN DUN*

 

[PhantomShab]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Same here. Especially now since regular Link's moveset got ruined by Break of the Weapon.

 

[Knight Dude]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Wolf and Snake are probably the only ones I'm hyped up for when it comes to cut characters.

I did play them from time to time in Brawl. Though I'm still likely to mostly use Mega Man and Ike. While also using Ridley.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Pokemon Trainer and to a lesser extent Pichu. I missed the cut Pokemon the most.

 

[Zinith]

and were cut characters at one point. Don't they count?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

Wolf was one of my brawl mains and the only cut that I was sad about so I'm so glad he's back and it's nice that he doesn't look janky as hell anymore lol

 

[Knight Dude]

I get that Isabelle is super popular, but it doesn't seem that hard to usurp the main character who's meant to be a customizable Avatar of the player who's also silent.

In terms of whether or not I want to see her in the game...I'm mostly indifferent. Hard to be anything less than that since EVERYONE plus Ridley are in.

and were cut characters at one point. Don't they count?

If they did, everyone would say Mew the Second and Dr. Disrespect.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ivysaur is the best returning character not in Sm4sh. But Squirtle flows better than before with his new water effects.

Wolf has a rad English-punk look going on with his new wardrobe. Love it.

 

[RandomAce]

What...? "Dixie is not interesting enough of a fighter"? Dixie would "Objectively" be the same as Diddy?

That sounds incredibly biased.

I'll say this again. In Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3, Dixie plays more like Smash Donkey Kong (A tornado spin, ground slam, and carrying objects overhead), but at Diddy's size. "Not being interesting" is an opinion, not objective fact.

I always keep hearing that Dixie has some traits from Donkey Kong as well even though she is small and has a body more similar to Diddy.

I got it! Make Dixie a combination of Donkey Kong and Diddy with some hair moves.

She could borrow moves from both to be unique enough to be seperate from either Kongs and have some of her hair moves to distant herself even more, this way she can still portray sort of to how she is in her games and not use a whole lot of development time as it is to make a unique character.

Okay, I actually don’t really know the extent of how similar Dixie is in her series to Donkey Kong, but it’s a thought to make her a Frankenstein character like how Wolf was in Brawl, just with much more polish, a lot more.

 

[SmashingXan2]

Same here. Especially now since regular Link's moveset got ruined by Break of the Weapon.

you don't like BOTW?

 

[N3ON]

I'm most excited for but I'm happiest is back.

 

[sdpdude9]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

for sure.

 

[KMDP]

I always keep hearing that Dixie has some traits from Donkey Kong as well even though she is small and has a body more similar to Diddy.

I got it! Make Dixie a combination of Donkey Kong and Diddy with some hair moves.

She could borrow moves from both to be unique enough to be seperate from either Kongs and have some of her hair moves to distant herself even more, this way she can still portray sort of to how she is in her games and not use a whole lot of development time as it is to make a unique character.

Okay, I actually don’t really know the extent of how similar Dixie is in her series to Donkey Kong, but it’s a thought to make her a Frankenstein character like how Wolf was in Brawl, just with much more polish, a lot more.

This what I've been arguing. Make her a composite of DK and Diddy.

Dixie could even inherit DK's old Final Smash, or a variant thereof, if she has to have her guitar somewhere.

It could also be her Victory Theme, as well.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Yea saying Isabelle took the Animal Crossing series as if there was anyone to take it from...like there was no Mario for Animal Crossing. It wasn't that hard lol.

On the other hand that's exactly why she should be a character imo, really even replace the Villager but that ship has sailed.

 

[Zinith]

I just noticed something. Unlockable characters are almost never revealed before the Japanese release of the game. The exceptions were for and for Brawl to promote the 3rd parties I take it and for Smash 4 to lead in to Robin (Dark Pit wasn't "officially" announced in Palutena's trailer, his status was unconfirmed at the time. Same with and in Melee). But now EVERY character is shown off regardless of starter status or not. But will we still see "secret" characters that aren't revealed beforehand similar to previous games?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I always keep hearing that Dixie has some traits from Donkey Kong as well even though she is small and has a body more similar to Diddy.

I got it! Make Dixie a combination of Donkey Kong and Diddy with some hair moves.

She could borrow moves from both to be unique enough to be seperate from either Kongs and have some of her hair moves to distant herself even more, this way she can still portray sort of to how she is in her games and not use a whole lot of development time as it is to make a unique character.

Okay, I actually don’t really know the extent of how similar Dixie is in her series to Donkey Kong, but it’s a thought to make her a Frankenstein character like how Wolf was in Brawl, just with much more polish, a lot more.

Honestly I don't really see the point, Wolf himself still took a lot of development time despite being a mashup (I believe it was 70% of the time a whole fighter would take?) might as well just go the extra mile and make her unique assuming she's not a total last minute addition like he was. Plus neither Diddy or DK have hair moves anyway obviously and she should really be using those in her normals as well, and the only DK moves that would work are down and up special anyway, and down special would require a whole new animation to boot

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ahem.
Okay maybe not as huge as Isabelle, but Ashley has definitely grown beyond Warioware in terms of popularity.

She didn't take over or become the face of her series though.

She's popular, but people still think of Wario when they hear WarioWare. Even in Japan it still remains Wario front and center for the most part.

Isabelle is front and center for all things Animal Crossing, including their crossover into Mario Kart 8.

 

[Impa4Smash]

So, which Cut Character are y'all most excited for? Young Link for me.

- He was my main back in Melee. Super excited that he’s coming back, and even more excited that he’s more of a glass cannon now and actually has a chance of being good.

Honorable mentions to because I prefer him to Fox and Falco, and because Squirtel.