Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

You say that like I was saying you were in the group of people to be said for.

The only train I'm on is the Steve train.

ok thanks for dinner father Embarrass

 

[Will]

He's going to be the final boss of the next game.

He turned Bandana Deevil.

 

[papagenos]

This is what the conglomerate Tier List is looking like right now btw.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is apparently taken from a lot of the top Smash players personal opinions.

There are a few outliers that I don't think should be in the places they are buuuut for the most part I agree with this take.

my favorite characters little mac
been playing kirby since 64 and mained him until little mac
also really like lemmy koopa and sometimes play him

literally all my favorites are the bottom tier... luckily the "new" characters i like ken/young link/simon are higher up but still it hurts to see, especially mac.

 

[Deleted member]

It is worth noting that a lot of the tier lists they used for this are outdated, there are even still ones from pre-release included in this. I think it'd look very different if the same people updated their tier lists for this.

The mere fact that Wario is mid tier gives away how outdated it is. He's one of the best performing characters so far.

 

[staindgrey]

Hopefully. I think K. Rool fans have made a big enough deal outta him that Nintendo has to take notice and the outcry since Returns for the Kremlings to, well, return has always been present even in praise with Tropical Freeze.

I also hope it isn't being made by Retro. They need to move on to something greater. So, let's talk about Monster Games. These guys are one of the most underrated Nintendo developers out there. Like, seriously. They handled the DKCR3D port and added those 7 new levels to the 8th world. And you know what? Those are probably the most creative levels in the whole game. If that's a sign of what they can do with DKC, I want to see them do it.

I will definitely take another Retro DKC game though. No questions asked. But when they do decide to move on from DKC, I hope Monster picks it up.

I'd be all for a new DKC game. But can we stop calling it Donkey Kong Country Returns: [subtitle here]? That's way too long of a title.

It returned two games ago. It's already back. Call it something else and bring back K. Rool already.

 

[Idon]

I'd be all for a new DKC game. But can we stop calling it Donkey Kong Country Returns: [subtitle here]? That's way too long of a title.

It returned two games ago. It's already back. Call it something else and bring back K. Rool already.

I dunno, I'm a big fan of DKCR:TP:NFM

 

[PLATINUM7]

I dunno, I'm a big fan of DKCR:TP:NFM

Donkey Kong Country Returns Twilight Princess New Funky Mode

Next Direct gonna be wild with that reveal.

 

[Wademan94]

Donkey Kong Country Returns Twilight Princess New Funky Mode

Next Direct gonna be wild with that reveal.

The crossover you never knew you wanted.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I'd be all for a new DKC game. But can we stop calling it Donkey Kong Country Returns: [subtitle here]? That's way too long of a title.

It returned two games ago. It's already back. Call it something else and bring back K. Rool already.

Donkey Kong Country Returns: Karnival of Krocodile Karnage Part 2: Awakening

 

[Ultomato]

This is what the conglomerate Tier List is looking like right now btw.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is apparently taken from a lot of the top Smash players personal opinions.

There are a few outliers that I don't think should be in the places they are buuuut for the most part I agree with this take.

Many have pointed out this is outdated.
I think that currently, Snake and Ike would be a lot higher and Olimar would be a bit lower.

 

[Wademan94]

I'd be all for a new DKC game. But can we stop calling it Donkey Kong Country Returns: [subtitle here]? That's way too long of a title.

It returned two games ago. It's already back. Call it something else and bring back K. Rool already.

Some potential names:

Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Calamity
Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Catastrophe
Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Tsunami

 

[Impa4Smash]

I'd be all for a new DKC game. But can we stop calling it Donkey Kong Country Returns: [subtitle here]? That's way too long of a title.

New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe says hi

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

So Leffen made a tier list.
View attachment 186036
Notes:
- Simon, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, and Daisy score the same as their counterparts
- Certain characters aren't listed since Leffen doesn't have a feel for them yet, like Mii Brawler, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, and Mr. Game and Watch.
- Three characters weren't listed because Leffen views them as so bad that they aren't worth talking about. These are Little Mac (RIP Mac Baby), Kirby, and Bowser Jr.

Definitely some things to talk about.

Seems like a pretty good tier list overall, i like the grid format, that's an interesting way to put it. Maybe Peach is a bit overrated there idk, definitely around high tier but not off the chart imo, she still struggles in certain matchups (from what i've seen) but yeah, she straight up dominates certain others tho. Some placements on the list are intriguing, not sure why ROB, Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer are so high? Also i wonder why he decided to put Captain Falcon so low... i've only seen good performances by Falcon players so far (but idk maybe i was just impressed by their flashiness ).

Wario won a major thanks to Tweek. Hence his position.

Glutony also won his set against Leffen at Valhalla (coincidence? ) but tbf Leffen has placed Wario perfectly on the chart he's the most well balanced fighter imo he's just way faster in Ultimate and still very heavy for his size (he got like, Ridley's weight and Mario's size, approximately). It's like he got all the advantages of a heavyweight without the downsides.

His recovery might be his weakness (since his bike's cooldown is longer i think) but it's very situational, i mean when he has the bike he can recover from pretty much anywhere. The waft can also help him recover in case of emergency. Competitively, the waft itself can be a real gamechanger, since the dmg racks up pretty fast now in Ultimate he can totally turn the tables with it... one good combo and a fully charged waft kills almost any character now... that's... just crazy... and so funny...
In other words Wario is just perfect

I could be wrong but from what I've seen in Tournament play, a good Snake is a forced to be reckoned with.

Agreed, on the other hand Snake players have pretty big challenges to overcome. Facing opponents like Fox, Pichu etc. (very quick, super good at juggling and catching opponent's landing) seems like a pretty big one. I've seen Ally switch to Mario on two occasions against Fox players because the matchups were a bit one sided. Seems like it's still Snake same old weakness, he's not good in the air except that now in Ultimate, some characters became just crazy good in the air. I mean that's okay for Snake to have a weakness but some characters can exploit it to a degree where Snake becomes almost not viable anymore (against those characters specifically not in general). But yeah, it's still early and Snake players will probably discover ways to work around this flaw, i hope so (more grenades maybe? ).

 

[ZephyrZ]

Seems like a pretty good tier list overall, i like the grid format, that's an interesting way to put it. Maybe Peach is a bit overrated there idk, definitely around high tier but not off the chart imo, she still struggles in certain matchups (from what i've seen) but yeah, she straight up dominates certain others tho. Some placements on the list are intriguing, not sure why ROB, Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer are so high? Also i wonder why he decided to put Captain Falcon so low... i've only seen good performances by Falcon players so far (but idk maybe i was just impressed by their flashiness ).

On paper Pokemon Trainer is extremely powerful because of how adaptive and flexible they are and impressed a lot of top players back at E3. As a team they have few weaknesses, and it seems lime that's something Leffen values as the bottom right of that chart is fairly empty. It doesn't seem like a lot of players are flocking to them though, but that's probably in part due to their learning curve. Of course I'm a Charizard/Trainer loyalist so I'm definitely on the biased side. It's also worth mentioning that Leffen has been playing Pomemon Trainer himself and may also have some bias.

What kind of match ups do you think Peach struggles with by the way?

 

[Cristaran]

Some potential names:

Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Calamity
Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Catastrophe
Donkey Kong Country: Crocodile Tsunami

Donkey Kong Country: Kremling´s Komeback

 

[Mega Bidoof]

There should be a SmashBoards stage where the stage hazards are bots trying to sell me supplements

 

[MainJPW]

Tails was initially not going to be playable in SA2, but fans wanted him in, so they added him. BUT it was too late in development to make his own gameplay style, so they decided to make him use the Cyclone.

Find me the source for this statement.

They hadn't figured out how to make high speed work with 3D platforming yet, so they just started chucking everything else they had at you.

That’s not the case. They already “figured it out” with Sonic’s gameplay. Takashi Iizuka and Kazuyuki Hoshino explained in a recent interview on Retro Gamer that they spent most of Sonic Adventure’s development building, scrapping then remaking stages just to get around the problem of getting lost in huge 3D environments.

Every thing you mentioned here:

Slow laserpointing robot shooting gallery, fishing gallery, go karts, hide and go seek, yada yada.

-was the result of creating different play styles in order to lessen the chances of Sonic (and by extension Tails) blasting through the stages too fast thus wasting all of the time and effort it took to make the stages. Knuckles’s bio mentions he’s a treasure hunter so they created the treasure hunter play style which requires more exploration, Amy’s play style was more about the “thrill and technical gameplay”. The different play styles were born out of the desire to include gameplay that couldn’t be done with Sonic.

Iizuka also finally revealed why Beta Windy Valley and its classic rolling mechanics styled ramp and slope level design was scrapped from the final game: Time constraints. (This part costs money.) There was no way they were going to have time to build every level like that or perfect the physics engine to not make these types of levels feel wonky as ****. Shame. It was also the first level designed and made playable for the game and the last to be remade.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

As someone who hasn’t played Persona 5...I’m with you

Just do what I did, watch a streamer
Shameless plug, Sirlionhart

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Just do what I did, watch a streamer
Shameless plug, Sirlionhart

Didn't Atlus go full Nintendo on streamers?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Didn't Atlus go full Nintendo on streamers?

With Persona 5 and the dumb restriction, yeah but then they backpedaled on it

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Small update, they've confirmed they're working on a new game in the Bravely Default series.

So that's another potential upcoming game to tie in with for "brave".

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

People are figuring out this game as it goes on. Turns out K. Rool and Isabelle aren't super S tier as in day 1 and Ridley isn't super trash tier.
Bayonetta also gets worse with each time she gets exposure. They nerfed her to the bone.

Spoiler: Big Image

Space Pirates, rise up!

 

[Deleted member]

...he is...

Again, I meant separate from OG Link, with a new moveset inspired by BotW.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Small update, they've confirmed they're working on a new game in the Bravely Default series.

No stop, my hype just died down from that announcemnt, now im excited again

 

[osby]

Again, I meant separate from OG Link, with a new moveset inspired by BotW.

But why? A lot of things that original Link had also fits Champion Link.

 

[Deleted member]

Good morning everyone!

 

[Deleted member]

But why? A lot of things that original Link had also fits Champion Link.

Yes, but Champion Link has so much more: Revali's Gale Up-B, Spin Attack with Urbosa's Fury could be adapted for his Side-B, and of course, Daruk's Protection for his shield. (Not the one he holds, the one you push a button to create.)

 

[osby]

Yes, but Champion Link has so much more: Revali's Gale Up-B, Spin Attack with Urbosa's Fury could be adapted for his Side-B, and of course, Daruk's Protection for his shield. (Not the one he holds, the one you push a button to create.)

Okay, but I don't see what's new about this moveset, it's just cramming references from Breath of the Wild into a pre-existing character.

It's redundant imo, and it's dubious whether they make Link's playstyle any better than what Ultimate did.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, but I don't see what's new about this moveset, it's just cramming references from Breath of the Wild into a pre-existing character.

It's redundant imo, and it's dubious whether they make Link's playstyle any better than what Ultimate did.

I guess.
I just think it would be good lol. Mostly because my older brother is a former Link main but can't play him anymore because of all the changes, and he's having a bit of difficulty adjusting to .

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, but I don't see what's new about this moveset, it's just cramming references from Breath of the Wild into a pre-existing character.

It's redundant imo, and it's dubious whether they make Link's playstyle any better than what Ultimate did.

Honestly Link is perfect as he is now. His moveset is coherent, makes sense, and is actually good this time. Only thing I wish he had was a wall cling and his shield being Daruk's Protection as neat references, but those are very small things that don't matter.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess.
I just think it would be good lol. Mostly because my older brother is a former Link main but can't play him anymore because of all the changes, and he's having a bit of difficulty adjusting to .

Also the reason I want this to happen is because he's playing now and is absolutely ****ing broken in casual play

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, but I don't see what's new about this moveset, it's just cramming references from Breath of the Wild into a pre-existing character.

It's redundant imo, and it's dubious whether they make Link's playstyle any better than what Ultimate did.

That's why the K.Rool trailer was so boring. When showing off his moveset it was all "HEY REMEMBER WHEN HE DID THIS? ISN'T THAT SO COOL TO SEE INSTEAD OF AN IDEA OF HOW HE PLAYS LIKE HOW THIS DUDE IS ACTUALLY THE BROLY/JUGGERNAUT OF THE GAME WITH ALL HIS ARMOURED ****?" and I'm just like. "Yeah, I remember, now what else do I get to see?"

 

[Deleted member]

I guess.
I just think it would be good lol. Mostly because my older brother is a former Link main but can't play him anymore because of all the changes, and he's having a bit of difficulty adjusting to .

The only change is to his bombs though and it's a really good buff tbh

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only change is to his bombs though and it's a really good buff tbh

tbf the boomerang is different than it was since Brawl and there's no hookshot anymore

 

[Gyrom8]

Hello hello

How is everyone

Did I miss anything since late November when the game started leaking? Other than, you know, the small matters of the game releasing and Joker being revealed for DLC.

Have been meaning to start posting here again earlier but wanted to finish up Word of Light first coz spoilers, and that was a surprisingly long campaign

February can't come soon enough

 

[Deleted member]

tbf the boomerang is different than it was since Brawl and there's no hookshot anymore

Yup that's why he can't play Link anymore
Also because they "nerfed" his favorite taunt

 

[osby]

That's why the K.Rool trailer was so boring. When showing off his moveset it was all "HEY REMEMBER WHEN HE DID THIS? ISN'T THAT SO COOL TO SEE INSTEAD OF AN IDEA OF HOW HE PLAYS LIKE HOW THIS DUDE IS ACTUALLY THE BROLY/JUGGERNAUT OF THE GAME WITH ALL HIS ARMOURED ****?" and I'm just like. "Yeah, I remember, now what else do I get to see?"

That pissed me off because I've gone a long time being like "he does nothing new" when he actually had that armor mechanic but they didn't showed it at all.

So, yeah, same.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Hello hello

How is everyone

Did I miss anything since late November when the game started leaking? Other than, you know, the small matters of the game releasing and Joker being revealed for DLC.

Have been meaning to start posting here again earlier but wanted to finish up Word of Light first coz spoilers, and that was a surprisingly long campaign

February can't come soon enough

Not much is going on in terms of leaks for quiet some time but there a recent leak where some dataminers found the next upcoming character in Ultimate's data.

It was codenamed "Brave"

We soon discovered its framedata, its fast a Young Link, he cannot wall jump, he walk as fast as Pichu, etc.

Many assumed that it is a Erdrick or a DQ Protagonist since Yuusha in Japanese stand for Brave or Hero in America. Hero is usually the protagonist name for almost all DQ games.

 

[Deleted member]

Hello hello

How is everyone

Did I miss anything since late November when the game started leaking? Other than, you know, the small matters of the game releasing and Joker being revealed for DLC.

Have been meaning to start posting here again earlier but wanted to finish up Word of Light first coz spoilers, and that was a surprisingly long campaign

February can't come soon enough

A placeholder character named "brave" was added in the files and is widely theorized to be Erdrick from Dragon Quest.

 

[Gyrom8]

Not much is going on in terms of leaks for quiet some time but there a recent leak where some dataminers found the next upcoming character in Ultimate's data.

It was codenamed "Brave"

Many assumed that it is a Erdrick or a DQ Protagonist since Yuusha in Japanese stand for Brave or Hero in America. Hero is usually the protagonist name for almost all DQ games.

A placeholder character named "brave" was added in the files and is widely theorized to be Erdrick from Dragon Quest.

Hmm interesting...

Whoever 'brave' is, they aren't going to be a villain - but how many villains are seriously in the running for DLC at this point? DQ makes sense given how the talk about a Square Enix rep are still circulating. Never played any Square Enix games and don't care who their rep may be, but would like to find the answer to the mystery soon. Are we potentially going to be getting a direct in the next week or so?