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not really because leffen doesnt decide the final tier lists
It's because he doesn't reek of 80s, he reeks of 90s pop star that still thrives today.
Wario as a top tier? What...? Isabelle and K. Rool not mid and at the bottom...? Ridley near the higher mid???
It's almost as if people finally learned how to play against them.
Now we nerf the real threat. 
A lot of people, Leffen included, feel they've kinda fallen off significantly once people learned to play against them. His K. Rool placement, for what it's worth, seems to be generating the most discussion thus far.
Not saying he does, but he at least has a more informed opinion than most, I'd say.
Yes, Chrom's zero-to-death. My thoughts exactly.It's almost as if people finally learned how to play against them.
Wario won a major thanks to Tweek. Hence his position.
Wario is likely due to him getting incredibly impressive tournament results, including a notable win at a fairly major tournament. Same with Ike, really.
Interesting to see Wario and Jigglypuff relatively high on that list. I'm curious about why that might be.
I'm not a tournament player but all I see is Ivysaur is better than Squirtle and Charizard, so this has to be 1023% correct, no doubt.
I kind of want to bless Mango for getting the Wario stuff moving. And then Ike is just everywhere now because of that one win. Makes me feel kinda cheap and tryhard to use him now.
Because he's a huge Melee player, got 7th in an Ultimate major and has been playing and analyzing Smash every day since launch.
If you guys are gonna give her super-duper armor, I'm gonna give Mega Man super-DEE-duper armor!
NGL, Wario does feel super good in this game. Was gonna ignore him because I've played him for so long and felt like doing different things in Ultimate. However, the more I play Ultimate Wario, the more I feel like Brawl Wario is coming back with a vengeance, and hoo boy does that tempt me to play Wario again.
Pokémon Trainer as a whole is kinda interesting. On their own Squirtle and Charizard aren't the best, per say, but using all three Pokémon to cover the other's weaknesses brings out all of their true potential.
I understand the "muh melee" argument, but I wouldn't consider any tier list made by any single one of them to be the single point of reference. Again, gonna point to ES "i love snake" AM vs Lef "i hate snake" fen.
I wonder what would happen if Sheik and Zelda were still together. Obviously, they'd be worse without Phantom Slash and Bouncing Fish, but they seem closer to each other, so they might've worked together, who knows.Pokémon Trainer as a whole is kinda interesting. On their own Squirtle and Charizard aren't the best, per say, but using all three Pokémon to cover the other's weaknesses brings out all of their true potential.
It's like a fully realized and not-botched version of what they tried to do in Melee with Zelda and Sheik.
So it's not the current mentality, but it'll eventually become the current mentality?
10/10
Basically.So it's not the current mentality, but it'll eventually become the current mentality?
Yeah the amount of tier lists we are getting is nuts. People need to shut up about them for now and wait for tournament results to come in. Not to mention Plant's soon and will no doubt come with a balance patch (even if it is too early for that, they won't care)
Obviously, you're not going to find any tier list that's going to serve as a point of reference for anyone. Hell you won't even find the best of the best agreeing on something even in a game like Melee which has been out for so long it can legally vote now. They're his thoughts on the meta and his thoughts alone.
That explains why Shulk is so high.
My point was is that we have another one coming in really soon and this hypothetical is probably going to change if another special character hits the spotlight or something. Say, I don't know,
or wins or something.The constant back-and-forth is really interesting. No one has really stood out as the indisputable best yet, and no one really knows where to place anyone other than "Swords and squids are pretty neato". Also hilarious that everyone laughed off Samus and are now completely 180ing, lol. This game is throwing Smash 4 players for a loop, as it is nowhere near as identical to Smash 4 as all the pros kept saying it was.
Yeah, it would, and the list's going to change to reflect that.My point was is that we have another one coming in really soon and this hypothetical is probably going to change if another special character hits the spotlight or something. Say, I don't know,
No it's a port. Don't be silly.
Yeah, but when is the definitive one?
There.
I wouldn't expect a initial tier list for a while.
Man, the music that such a stage would bring should be as lit as that stage itself!
Geez, can't a guy make his references in peace?
Especially considering we won't have every DLC character until Feb. next year (assuming no delays happen) and balance patches will be going on for a while.
He also won a european tournament with Gluttony as the player recently and was able to beat Leffen's Pokemon Trainer.
