Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

I'll just outright say it...

I played through all 103 stages, and 75m is the WORST ONE!!!

Every time someone mentions bad stages, I feel more compelled to try out Rumble Falls every second.

Also, Snake just won the first US major.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Stage Morph 75m + Hanenbow is the best stage in the game, I don't know what y'all are talking about.

Great Cave Offensive to literally anything but Palutena’s Temple is always a fun time

 

[Wyoming]

I'll just outright say it...

I played through all 103 stages, and 75m is the WORST ONE!!!

People complain about Hanenbow, Mario Bros., and Pac-Land - and while all bad stages in their own ways - at least can offer consistent controllable movement. 75m is like board the platforms but all the fun is sucked out of it and it tries to kill you.

 

[Wademan94]

I’m really surprised they didn’t “Chrom” Dixie. Make her an echo of Diddy with a unique up-B and a few other flourishes here and there

My ideas for echo Dixie were a unique double jump with her ponytail, Diddy’s neutral special using her Gumball Popgun, inheriting Diddy’s Back Flip side custom, and using Donkey Kong’s up and down specials using her hair instead of arms.

 

[ChronoBound]

Seriously though, how hasn’t Dixie kong gotten in yet? She’s perfect! She pretty much fills every requirement to be on the roster.
I’m exaggerating of course, I know why she hasn’t been made playable, but she really does feel like the most notable omission to me.

Bad luck has unfortunately been a part of Dixie Kong's identity going back to 1997 (where she was not a part of Diddy Kong Racing's roster).

Every single thing you could think of that would be a point in her favor to be added to the roster, turned out to be a mirage. Heck, both DKC2 and DCK3 were among the Top 10 best selling games for the entire SNES/Super Famicom. Heck, even DKC3 sold about two million copies in Japan alone.

Everything that could lead you to think there was hope for her ended up being a mirage:
- planned for Brawl
- unveiled to have a major playable role in Tropical Freeze at around the same time as Smash 4 was unveiled.
- Diddy Kong lost his tail attack
- No new Tropical Freeze music in Ultimate as well as the weird inclusion of Ice Cave Chant

She is a fantastic gaming character, and among the few heroines that has a "Mario appeal" (meaning a character that is appealing and endearing across demographics despite having an unorthodox mass appeal design). Here is a post I wrote recently explaining this:

During the 1990's, there were very few female gaming protagonists, especially outside of RPGs. For Nintendo, the two big ones were Samus (who many did not even know was a woman) and of course Dixie Kong.

Dixie Kong was a very interesting case. For many female characters, they are usually loved because of "sex appeal" or "waifu bait". However, Dixie Kong was a very "girly girl" kind of character (she would even cry if she got hit), yet she was very popular among boys during the 1990's. Why was this? Well, even though she was still very feminine and girly, she was at the same time very cool. She could fly through stages that were very challenging for our much younger selves, and flying is very cool. Her animations did much to endear people to her too, whether it was rocking out on a guitar, chewing gum, having a drink through a straw, or licking honey while climbing a wall. She had spunk and personality. DKC3 might very well been the first Nintendo game I remember ever being hyped for solely due to Dixie Kong headlining it (it was either that or Yoshi's Island).

Dixie Kong in a lot of ways is a female Mario. You would not think a girly monkey with an oversized ponytail would be very endearing (much the same way you would not think a mustachioed middle aged man wearing a red cap and shirt and blue overalls would be appealing), yet she is appealing and endearing to all kinds of demographics. She in many ways is the ideal heroine. Many heroines are made and written to be men in a female body, but Dixie Kong is still very feminine and a "girly girl", yet at the same time very much a heroine. For a series that regularly features kidnapping as a plotpoint, she still remains the only major playable Kong to have never been kidnapped by K. Rool (DK and Diddy have both been kidnapped twice). She has fight in her too (remember how she sassed K. Rool in DKC3).

Young boys would love and appreciate Dixie Kong just as much as young girls would, and that speaks a lot to her design and appeal as a character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dixie was also intended to be a partner to Diddy from the start. We don't know how she would've played. Maybe that's all he wanted for her and had no new inspirations to make her stand out? It can be pretty simple for why he doesn't add a requested character. Maybe K. Rool also got more requests in the ballot? Who knows.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Ah, but it takes place within a concrete jungle(?)

If 75M and New Donk City Hall are in the same place, where is the hard line between where it’s the Mario universe and where it’s the DK universe, if they’re only like a few hundred yards (and a couple decades) away from each other?

 

[Noipoi]

Stage Morph 75m + Hanenbow is the best stage in the game, I don't know what y'all are talking about.

That sounds satanic.

I gotta try it.

They insist that every character will be a surprise.
There's no way to predict those surprises, but I want to make a prediction, trying to be as unpredictable as possible.

DLC 0 - A basic Mario minion (Piranha Plant)
DLC 1 - A character appearing mostly on Sony consoles (Joker)
DLC 2 - A Nintendo character (one of the missing spirits, or a new character from a game that's still not announced - when everyone is expecting a 3rd party)
DLC 3 - A character to appeal the PC gamers (I don't know, Overwatch, Portal... Licensing can be a nightmare I know)
DLC 4 - A very requested fan favorite (someone like Geno; when everyone has lost their hopes, it becomes unexpected)
DLC 5 - A third party character who often people do not associate to videogames (something like Vocaloid or Digimon/Tamagochi)

This will most likely be wrong, but at least I tried.

If our dlc characters looked something like

Piranha Plant
Joker
Porky or Poochy(missing spirit)
Frisk or Tracer (pc character)
Geno or Banjo (fan favorite)
Hatsune Miku (unexpected third party)

I'd be completely satisfied. This is the weirdest list ever, and weird is just how I like it.

 

[Shroob]

Dixie was also intended to be a partner to Diddy from the start. We don't know how she would've played. Maybe that's all he wanted for her and had no new inspirations to make her stand out? It can be pretty simple for why he doesn't add a requested character. Maybe K. Rool also got more requests in the ballot? Who knows.

I don't think we even need to speculate on that, we know that's a major reason why he's even here.

 

[Deleted member]

People complain about Hanenbow, Mario Bros., and Pac-Land - and while all bad stages in their own ways - at least can offer consistent controllable movement. 75m is like board the platforms but all the fun is sucked out of it and it tries to kill you.

Hanenbow is a top-tier casual stage, you sit yourself down.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'd argue that BWD, Dixie, Rex, and Paper Mario feel like glaring omissions, but just about every other notable Nintendo character is present on the roster.

Regardless, it won't stay like that for long. Aside from the reliable Pokemon and FE reps, we'll have plenty more "Inkling" and "Isabelle" breakout stars from upcoming games. Wouldn't surprise me if we get enough potential newcomers for another Smash game within two more years of the Switch.

 

[Luigi The President]

Dixie was also intended to be a partner to Diddy from the start. We don't know how she would've played. Maybe that's all he wanted for her and had no new inspirations to make her stand out? It can be pretty simple for why he doesn't add a requested character. Maybe K. Rool also got more requests in the ballot? Who knows.

I would understand this if not for Echoes.

 

[Deleted member]

Bad luck has unfortunately been a part of Dixie Kong's identity going back to 1997 (where she was not a part of Diddy Kong Racing's roster).

Every single thing you could think of that would be a point in her favor to be added to the roster, turned out to be a mirage. Heck, both DKC2 and DCK3 were among the Top 10 best selling games for the entire SNES/Super Famicom. Heck, even DKC3 sold about two million copies in Japan alone.

Everything that could lead you to think there was hope for her ended up being a mirage:
- planned for Brawl
- unveiled to have a major playable role in Tropical Freeze at around the same time as Smash 4 was unveiled.
- Diddy Kong lost his tail attack
- No new Tropical Freeze music in Ultimate as well as the weird inclusion of Ice Cave Chant

She is a fantastic gaming character, and among the few heroines that has a "Mario appeal" (meaning a character that is appealing and endearing across demographics despite having an unorthodox mass appeal design). Here is a post I wrote recently explaining this:

During the 1990's, there were very few female gaming protagonists, especially outside of RPGs. For Nintendo, the two big ones were Samus (who many did not even know was a woman) and of course Dixie Kong.

Dixie Kong was a very interesting case. For many female characters, they are usually loved because of "sex appeal" or "waifu bait". However, Dixie Kong was a very "girly girl" kind of character (she would even cry if she got hit), yet she was very popular among boys during the 1990's. Why was this? Well, even though she was still very feminine and girly, she was at the same time very cool. She could fly through stages that were very challenging for our much younger selves, and flying is very cool. Her animations did much to endear people to her too, whether it was rocking out on a guitar, chewing gum, having a drink through a straw, or licking honey while climbing a wall. She had spunk and personality. DKC3 might very well been the first Nintendo game I remember ever being hyped for solely due to Dixie Kong headlining it (it was either that or Yoshi's Island).

Dixie Kong in a lot of ways is a female Mario. You would not think a girly monkey with an oversized ponytail would be very endearing (much the same way you would not think a mustachioed middle aged man wearing a red cap and shirt and blue overalls would be appealing), yet she is appealing and endearing to all kinds of demographics. She in many ways is the ideal heroine. Many heroines are made and written to be men in a female body, but Dixie Kong is still very feminine and a "girly girl", yet at the same time very much a heroine. For a series that regularly features kidnapping as a plotpoint, she still remains the only major playable Kong to have never been kidnapped by K. Rool (DK and Diddy have both been kidnapped twice). She has fight in her too (remember how she sassed K. Rool in DKC3).

Young boys would love and appreciate Dixie Kong just as much as young girls would, and that speaks a lot to her design and appeal as a character.

That’s an interesting point too. Dixie holds a rather ‘universal’ appeal, especially compared to a lot of female characters even in just nintendo’s library. She’s such a natural addition to the roster. A bit unfortunate if you ask me.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Hanenbow is a top-tier casual stage, you sit yourself down.

Plus the Omega form doubles as a green screen for all your meme needs!

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm actually wondering what would happen if I go Stage Morph and choose Great Cave Offensive or Palutena's Temple along with one of the small stages.

I haven't even tried 75m + Hanenbow yet, tbh, but now I want to. I haven't messed around with Stage Morph save for one match or so.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I'm actually wondering what would happen if I go Stage Morph and choose Great Cave Offensive or Palutena's Temple along with one of the small stages.

I haven't even tried 75m + Hanenbow yet, tbh, but now I want to. I haven't messed around with Stage Morph save for one match or so.

It just works - Todd Howard

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think we even need to speculate on that, we know that's a major reason why he's even here.

And more to it than that. This makes her lower priority.

I would understand this if not for Echoes.

This assumes she played very similarly to Diddy when she was made for Smash back then. She might've had a ton of differences for all we know. So being an Echo would undermine his intended playstyle, which is already undermined by the fact he can't partner her up with Diddy anymore. We don't know enough. We only know she didn't work out during Brawl... and that's it.

 

[Iridium]

I'm actually wondering what would happen if I go Stage Morph and choose Great Cave Offensive or Palutena's Temple along with one of the small stages.

I haven't even tried 75m + Hanenbow yet, tbh, but now I want to. I haven't messed around with Stage Morph save for one match or so.

Stage Morph Battlefield + Big Battlefield is the best option.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok I feel like some people are taking the "unexpected characters" comment by Reggie a bit TOO seriously

Like... it's just PR talk. Like I bet there's gonna be another 3rd party or something that'll be surprising like a Dark Souls rep or some **** but don't think that anyone is (de)confirmed because of this. I mean, he's literally just trying to hype people up. He's a PR guy. Don't take characters off/put characters on prediction lists because of this one comment he made lmao

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

I'd argue that BWD, Dixie, Rex, and Paper Mario feel like glaring omissions, but just about every other notable Nintendo character is present on the roster.

Regardless, it won't stay like that for long. Aside from the reliable Pokemon and FE reps, we'll have plenty more "Inkling" and "Isabelle" breakout stars from upcoming games. Wouldn't surprise me if we get enough potential newcomers for another Smash game within two more years of the Switch.

Still getting ready for a "TOWN" rep.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Seriously though, how hasn’t Dixie kong gotten in yet? She’s perfect! She pretty much fills every requirement to be on the roster.
I’m exaggerating of course, I know why she hasn’t been made playable, but she really does feel like the most notable omission to me.

What's more shocking too is she was planned for Brawl. Why Sakurai never considered her for Sm4sh and Ultimate I do not know.

Leads me to wonder too why Dedede wasn't in Melee if Sakurai considered him for 64. You would think he would had considered him at least for Melee as well no?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm totally banking on Waluigi being Smash 6's "Oh wow, guys, we totally didn't know how popular he is so I guess, here he is, lol"

Well, if they don't just reboot the damn thing.

The problem I see with the Assist Trophy situation is that there's an obvious glass ceiling, and while it has been shown characters can break through, it appears to not work the way fans had hoped for, meaning if you become an AT, you're an AT forever. Fan demand is there with the characters, and in this installment at least, a little over 1/3rd were built with the mindset of duking it out with the fighters, but the crew at the very least and Sakurai at the foremost will look at being an AT character as the ultimate compromise in which it means they're in the game as an honor... but they're not gonna be playable. Considering the line Sakurai posted years ago about how "trying real hard doesn't mean you'll get in" and how characters like Waluigi and Shadow are essentially three-time losers, and then you get into characters that people felt like had some semblance of a chance like Isaac (who made his triumphant return... as an AT). Frankly, the only character from the list of current ATs I see getting promoted in the future would be a Takamaru or an Isaac IF new games (emphasis on games, not just one) from their series was made between now and the next Smash, making them a viable franchise and not just a niche entity. A character like Waluigi won't even get that opportunity because he's in the same boat as Daisy; an ensemble character put into ensemble games, with the difference being that he's too different to make.

Assist Trophy status is fine for people like Nikki, Arcade Bunny, or even Starfy; it's not as if you're going to see people making much of a case for them to be playable, but when you start looking a bit upward, people inevitably will get grumpy about it. Naturally, nobody will ever be happy about it; there will always be some losers in this deal. Honestly, I still say they should eventually make a mode where you can actually play as the ATs and give them basic smash attacks and new animations, even if it's limited to fighting the other ATs, because we aren't going to see them get the promotion in DLC. Nintendo is going to give the spotlight to third party newcomers and upcoming projects, so why not offer the side mode like a Stadium Event instead. Would it suck? Yeah. But, after 11 years of "Will they/won't they" on these characters and it's pretty clear the answer is "Won't they", giving Assist Trophies a chance to beat each other up is the best chance we'll have.

 

[Deleted member]

Still getting ready for a "TOWN" rep.

I can’t get over the name TOWN. I know it’s a working title but lmao.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Stage Morph Battlefield + Big Battlefield is the best option.

I wonder if the game will let you pick Battlefield and Battlefield Big Battlefield for Stage Morph, can someone test that?

 

[Wyoming]

The Diddy and Dixie tag team idea is such a good one that I wish they'd go back on it. Not including Diddy of course, but rather Kiddy Kong.

Now hear me out. Kiddy Kong is a disgusting creature that deserves no sympathy, but having them join the battle as a duo would complete the DKC trilogy in terms of representation. We'd have DK, Diddy, its main villain K. Rool, the tag-team mechanic, Dixie, and Kiddy. We'd only be missing the animal buddies and they could still cameo in their final smash!

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Stage Morph Battlefield + Big Battlefield is the best option.

My favorite thing to do is Stage Morphing from the Omega version of any stage to its Battlefield version. I kinda did it as a joke the first time, but it ended up being kinda cool too.

 

[Deleted member]

The Diddy and Dixie tag team idea is such a good one that I wish they'd go back on it. Not including Diddy of course, but rather Kiddy Kong.

Now hear me out. Kiddy Kong is a disgusting creature that deserves no sympathy, but having them join the battle as a duo would complete the DKC trilogy in terms of representation. We'd have DK, Diddy, its main villain K. Rool, the tag-team mechanic, Dixie, and Kiddy. We'd only be missing the animal buddies and they could still cameo in their final smash!

I’d be horrified by a HD 3D kiddy kong.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I wonder if the game will let you pick Battlefield and Battlefield Big Battlefield for Stage Morph, can someone test that?

I think it let's you pick any of the two stages, no matter what.

I just remember doing Omega Battlefield and Battlefield Final Destination.

 

[Deleted member]

Stage Morph Battlefield + Big Battlefield is the best option.

Do it the exact opposite way with 8 players one stock each

SUPER SMASH BROS. BATTLE ROYALE

 

[Impa4Smash]

The Diddy and Dixie tag team idea is such a good one that I wish they'd go back on it. Not including Diddy of course, but rather Kiddy Kong.

Now hear me out. Kiddy Kong is a disgusting creature that deserves no sympathy, but having them join the battle as a duo would complete the DKC trilogy in terms of representation. We'd have DK, Diddy, its main villain K. Rool, the tag-team mechanic, Dixie, and Kiddy. We'd only be missing the animal buddies and they could still cameo in their final smash!

“Did we get Dixie in?”
“Yes.”
“What did it cost?”
“Everything.”

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Speaking of Animal Crate. That really should had been an item. It could had worked the same way as Poke Balls and Assist Trophies did.

 

[NineS]

Do it the exact opposite way with 8 players one stock each

SUPER SMASH BROS. BATTLE ROYALE

When you think about it, World of Light really is just a battle Royale.
That's why Galeem really wanted everyone gone, he wanted to win the battle royale.

But because it was then him and Kirby, he lost because Kirby decided to shoot him in the back of his head while hiding in the bushes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Diddy and Dixie tag team idea is such a good one that I wish they'd go back on it. Not including Diddy of course, but rather Kiddy Kong.

Now hear me out. Kiddy Kong is a disgusting creature that deserves no sympathy, but having them join the battle as a duo would complete the DKC trilogy in terms of representation. We'd have DK, Diddy, its main villain K. Rool, the tag-team mechanic, Dixie, and Kiddy. We'd only be missing the animal buddies and they could still cameo in their final smash!

I would laugh if Kiddy Kong himself is the reason he isn't revisiting the idea.

But seriously, I'd be fine with her being an echo or semi-clone. Not all ideas work out. She doesn't need to be partnered up with somebody. I get the point of it, since that's a major thing that's important about her DKC playstyle.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Speaking of Animal Crate. That really should had been an item. It could had worked the same way as Poke Balls and Assist Trophies did.

This would be very cool. Might be too much effort to do all of them but even if it was just Rambi

 

[TheCJBrine]

When you think about it, World of Light really is just a battle Royale.
That's why Galeem really wanted everyone gone, he wanted to win the battle royale.

But because it was then him and Kirby, he lost because Kirby decided to shoot him in the back of his head while hiding in the bushes.

And then Dharkon came and made Galeem just rage against him, letting Kirby snipe both of them easily while bombing the Hands.

edit: I just imagined Kirby on a plane in Fortnite, flying around and destroying the Smash-original bosses.

 

[Deleted member]

Dixie I feel would work both individually and as a tag-team fighter. She has enough moveset potential to be her own thing, but a team with Kiddy Kong would also make sense. I think Sakurai would make her individual though, but that’s prttty much just a feeling.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I unironically think Lanky would make a really fun fighter with his handstand moves and stretch arms.

They need to remake DK 64 already.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

What would the fandom's reaction be if Kiddy Kong got in while Dixie still got left out?

Just curious.

 

[Dee Dude]

The fact that Dixie hasn’t atleast been an Assist Trophy is bizarre, she’ll probably take baby steps in terms of character roles as far as future Smash titles go.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Ok I feel like some people are taking the "unexpected characters" comment by Reggie a bit TOO seriously

Like... it's just PR talk. Like I bet there's gonna be another 3rd party or something that'll be surprising like a Dark Souls rep or some **** but don't think that anyone is (de)confirmed because of this. I mean, he's literally just trying to hype people up. He's a PR guy. Don't take characters off/put characters on prediction lists because of this one comment he made lmao

I'm pretty sure it's not just that comment.
They have hinted multiple times at the possibility that all the DLCs will be unexpected, since the day when Sakurai said that all characters are selected by Nintendo/stop requesting characters if you are not asked to.