Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I just got payed, lads! My paychecks are inconsistent, and I thought I might not have enough money in time for Smash. But now I don't have to worry!

IT'S SMASH TIME LADS!

ASIAN DILF GIVES TEENAGE MAN THE TIME OF HIS LIFE FOR 60 DOLLARS!

 

[Wyoming]

Nintendo Switch - check. Purchased in September.
Online Service - check. Purchased late October.
GameCube controller - check. Purchased two weeks ago.
GameCube adapter - check. Purchased last week. Arrived today.
Smash Ultimate - che-****.

 

[Noipoi]

ASIAN DILF GIVES TEENAGE MAN THE TIME OF HIS LIFE FOR 60 DOLLARS!

Spoiler

OwO?

 

[Deleted member]

So, in regards to guests in Ultimate. Here's who I think are likely from each company:

Sega: No clue honestly lol.
Capcom: Leon Kennedy, Monster Hunter.
Bandai Namco: Jin, Lloyd Irving, maybe KOS-MOS
Square Enix: Sora, Erdrick
Other: Steve (Minecraft), Dovakiin (Elder Scrolls)

 

[Iridium]

All this talk about changes to characters makes me hope Bowser Jr. fans don't force themselves to move on. He actually didn't get nerfed that hard as some people might think.

 

[Luigi The President]

So, in regards to guests in Ultimate. Here's who I think are likely from each company:

Sega: No clue honestly lol.
Capcom: Leon Kennedy, Monster Hunter.
Bandai Namco: Jin, Lloyd Irving, maybe KOS-MOS
Square Enix: Sora, Erdrick
Other: Steve (Minecraft)

Why you bopping Geno like this

 

[Deleted member]

Why you bopping Geno like this

I dunno man. I'm not sure about Geno at this point.

 

[Luigi The President]

All this talk about changes to characters makes me hope Bowser Jr. fans don't force themselves to move on. He actually didn't get nerfed that hard as some people might think.

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.

I dunno man. I'm not sure about Geno at this point.

Why not? I'm bored.

 

[Deleted member]

It makes more sense than how she currently is in Smash where she fights exactly like a character she canonically can't know how they fought like. lol

It makes more sense than copying her fighting style from a centuries year old descendant she never actually met or had seen the fighting style of.

... At least give her her stupid Awakening battle pose.

THEY HAVE THE SAME ****ING ANIMATIONS IN AWAKENING ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME
MARTH IS ALSO LITERALLY THE ONLY CHARACTER TO NOT USE ROBIN'S ASSETS FOR A MODEL INSTEAD HAVING LUCINA'S AS A BASE
PF ****ING COURSE SHE'S A MARTH CLONE
FOR ****'S SAKES GUYS PLAY AWAKENING

Hey Shi, good question

So basically in the middle of my Katalina hating flurry I actually saw a pic of Katalina and was like....wtf her design's cool as hell. So I looked her up on her wiki, and actually grew very attached to her character! She has a very caring personality and I really enjoy her design. So those two factors mixed to make a character I actually like lol.

And as a Geno fan, I'm used to rooting for the underdog. I decided to give Katalina a chance. A few years ago I never would have, since I was a true Smash elitist-but now I've realized that if I like a character, I'm free to want them in Smash lol.

Hope that explains.

Interesting, so, could I interest you in Arthur, King of the Brittons with the bare minimum required for me to say she actually has boobs?

No, seriously. Look

There was a problem fetching the tweet

He even has a Counter

Please PLEASE TELLL ME THIS IS REAL

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.


Why not? I'm bored.

He just doesn't seem like a character Square would want to push to me.

 

[staindgrey]

You're right, it really isn't that hard.

I've been playing Smash since 2002, and I've never had a character that I really loved be in any Smash game until now. I ended up growing attached to R.O.B., and he was my favorite Smash character for the duration of Brawl and Smash 4, but he wasn't a character that was shown off before Brawl where I went "YES! FINALLY!" or that I had much of a personal history or attachment to, outside of Mario Kart DS (though I do own an actual R.O.B. and Gyromite accessories, which I've played a handful of times over the years, but I can't remember if I got it before or after Brawl).

When Smash 4 came and went, and I didn't get any new characters I liked, I was still excited for them because they made other people happy. Seeing Maximilian and others lose their minds over Cloud and Bayonetta made their inclusions worth it. I like seeing other people's wishes come true, even if it means not all of mine will. When Daisy was announced, I didn't personally care, but I was still excited because I knew that it was a big deal for a lot of other people, so I thought it was awesome. I've never played or cared about Donkey Kong, but I knew K. Rool was a titan in terms of popularity for Smash, so I was hoping he'd get announced, too, if only for everyone else.

Part of that is just recognition of "Beggars can't be choosers." My top two are Dark Samus and Chibi-Robo. Both had little chance of anything. So if neither of them were confirmed, I could just go "Yeah, all right, whatever," because I'm not going to say "This character with little popularity, relevancy, or significance deserves to be in the game damn it, and if they don't get in over Incineroar, I'm not going to buy the game, and Sakurai's a ho." The only case that could've been made for either of them was that, since Ridley was said to not be viable, Dark Samus is the next in line for a Metroid character with plenty of potential and less issues, and Chibi-Robo had a 3DS game in 2015 that gave him a bit more relevancy and moveset potential, but that's it. I wasn't going to pretend that either of them were any more important than they actually were.

Somehow... I got Dark Samus, and Chibi-Robo as a Mii costume. I can't tell you how that happened. I voted for Dark Samus in the ballot, but I didn't think it would work. I guess those 16 years of patience paid off, or something. Even if neither of them are full newcomers and compromises had to be made to include them, the fact that either of them made it in at all is huge. Some people complain that Dark Samus should've been a full character, but it was this or nothing. Echo Fighters are a sign that "We can't justify this character as a full newcomer, but we can at least get them in the game this way," which I can't necessarily disagree with.

I'm with you, Diem. And reading that made me really happy for you. I wish we as a community (myself included) focused more on the cheerful aspect of people getting what they wanted, rather than focusing on the things people didn't.

Throughout the Smash 4 hype cycle on here, I was 110% in on Daisy. I've used her in every single Mario spin-off since Double Dash, and while I didn't think I'd ever get her, I campaigned anyway, bringing her up in these forums anywhere I could, repping her in my icon and sig, voting, making posts on Miiverse and Twitter trying to get others to vote... I mean, it's silly, she's just the loud, fun version of Peach that I always pick in party games, but when she was suddenly announced, that euphoria was something else.

My brother and I were watching E3 at my office because I had to work that day, with a pair of headphones split between us. And sure, we were excited as we had been through the other E3 press conference. "Oh wow! Awesome!" "That's cool. I'll get that." "I'm so glad they're making one of those." But then Daisy came on screen, and I jumped from my chair, screamed and highfived my brother about fifty times consecutively in a machine gun barrage of slaps before running out of the room. Resident Evil 2 was the only other thing announced all E3 that got me even close to as excited as a single character appearing onscreen and making her trademark wail.

So while some will chop Daisy in their hypothetical "If I were in charge..." lists, and some will say fandom can be excessive, all I can say is that when I got my character it was ****ing awesome. I don't even like playing Peach. I hate that she's a clone. But the mere fact that she's in just made the whole game for me. It doesn't matter what else they announce or don't announce; I got my girl.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.

Yup, Ridley doesn't seem to be doing all that great pre-release but I'm still going to main the hell outta him, regardless of tier placement.

EDIT: I still am curious about the changes someone claimed were made to Ridley in the current demo build.

 

[Luigi The President]

THEY HAVE THE SAME ****ING ANIMATIONS IN AWAKENING ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME
MARTH IS ALSO LITERALLY THE ONLY CHARACTER TO NOT USE ROBIN'S ASSETS FOR A MODEL INSTEAD HAVING LUCINA'S AS A BASE
PF ****ING COURSE SHE'S A MARTH CLONE
FOR ****'S SAKES GUYS PLAY AWAKENING

Interesting, so, could I interest you in Arthur, King of the Brittons with the bare minimum required for me to say she actually has boobs?

Please PLEASE TELLL ME THIS IS REAL

zzz i shleep i'ma need more than that Shi

He just doesn't seem like a character Square would want to push to me.

I mean...seeing as this game seems to be driven towards the hardcore Smash fanbase who definitely like Geno...I dunno.
Just keep him in your prayers lol.

 

[Deleted member]

THEY HAVE THE SAME ****ING ANIMATIONS IN AWAKENING ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME
MARTH IS ALSO LITERALLY THE ONLY CHARACTER TO NOT USE ROBIN'S ASSETS FOR A MODEL INSTEAD HAVING LUCINA'S AS A BASE
PF ****ING COURSE SHE'S A MARTH CLONE
FOR ****'S SAKES GUYS PLAY AWAKENING

Ouch, my ears. I get it, Lucina is Marth clone in every sense of the word lol.

I mean...seeing as this game seems to be driven towards the hardcore Smash fanbase who definitely like Geno...I dunno.
Just keep him in your prayers lol.

Alright, I'll be sure to.

 

[MainJPW]

He just doesn't seem like a character Square would want to push to me.

Squeenix should just give Geno to Nintendo. This reminds me of Marvel and Fox with the X-Men and F4.

 

[Luigi The President]

Squeenix should just give Geno to Nintendo. This reminds me of Marvel and Fox with the X-Men and F4.

I mean morally they should

Business-wise? **** no

 

[FreeFox]

Yes I know, I replied about that already. I meant FE as the typical and Pokemon as the more. No denying Pokemons themselves are diverse but there're too many Pokemons already. I'm saying this because even after Incineroar, people started asking for a gen. representer! I mean come on. Are youexpecting to move the 800+ Ps to Smash? Seriously, a space for other franchises. This is not a Pokemon or a Pokken game. One or two from each franch and that should be enough. You know how many pokemons joined the game since the first? including ATs? 212. Yes, over Two Hundred! And they're still asking for more. What do you call that?
Similarly, you've taken my words out of context.

No, I am not expecting more Pokémon but there are many fans out there who would gladly take more Pokémon. Pokémon is the number 1 franchise in the world. Heck, many people didnt expect that we would get 2 more Mario newcomers and we did. I am fine with whatever we get for DLC. I am sure that whatever Sakurai decides from Nintendo´s list will be great. And lets not kid ourseles saying that more Pokémon is an impossibility but it also doesnt mean that a new Pokémon is a lock.

Also, in which way did I take your words out of context?

 

[Iridium]

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.


Why not? I'm bored.

There's even a changelog about him at the moment.

I'd say he looks even better than what he looks. I don't like him too much, but he at least deserves a chance...

 

[Deleted member]

Squeenix should just give Geno to Nintendo. This reminds me of Marvel and Fox with the X-Men and F4.

I don't see that happening to be honest.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.

Same.

Nothing will keep me from Incineroar. Not his slow speed, or his abysmal recovery, nothing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So the new Kirby Star Allies update will give Bandana Dee some more moves to make him feel different from just Spear Kirby. More Bandana Dee promotion ayyyyyyy. Dedede's getting a similar treatment as he's just Hammer Kirby in that game

 

[Noipoi]

So the new Kirby Star Allies update will give Bandana Dee some more moves to make him feel different from just Spear Kirby. More Bandana Dee promotion ayyyyyyy. Dedede's getting a similar treatment as he's just Hammer Kirby in that game

I still hope Bandanna Dee is dlc. He's a good boy, he should join his friends.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I probably should learn to draw realistically, but it's so hard!

It only gets worse after a certain point. When you use a nude model as a reference, you have a fixed time window to practice with a live one. You are usually given extremely small increments of time to sketch out the skeleton in different poses (i.e. spine, hips, joints etc.). Then there's drawing on paper with larger dimensions than you're comfortable with. Translating photographs via sketch or painting on something close to 64x28 is brutal, because that's where eyeballing requires perfect accuracy, and using a reference stick barely helps me because I still manage to botch whatever it is I'm trying to copy.

It's super frustrating too, because art is literally the only thing I know how to do to a degree, and that's really really bad.

Spoiler

Take the self-loathing and combine it with all the other real-world talents I haven't compared myself to (or mentioned) and you have someone with extremely-low self-esteem issues and a massive inferiority complex.

Keep in mind, I've gone through this cycle with people online who have never seen my stuff before showing them and I've gotten some favorable responses that I can't deny upfront, but it's a completely different feeling when you're surrounded by people who do the same exact thing you do, but a million times better. The feeling of being dead-last is crushing. it's why I don't post my stuff online anymore because my artist friends have gotten so much better that they would take notice at my non-progress.

 

[FalcoXP]

Hi there.

Man, we are almost there.

Just 2 weeks more.

 

[staindgrey]

We talking about giving more changes to echoes? Okay.

Oh! Oh! Can I get in on this?

- Scrap everything.

Spoiler: Replace with that moveset I made before Smash 4.

Princess Daisy
The Will-Probably-Never-Happen (But Whatever) Moveset for Smash Fo(u)r Wii U/3DS.

Her appearance and moveset are based off of her various Mario spin-off appearances. This both embraces her tomboyish character and offers some overdue celebration for Nintendo's ongoing kart racing, party game and various sports series, which have netted nearly 200 million sales overall. I hope to make her entirely unique and distinct from the rest of the cast, and hopefully make y'all feel bad for not requesting Daisy more often. (<3)
---
Appearance

Her appearance would be based on her outfit in Super Mario Strikers for Gamecube. The color variation and extra clothing would be more appealing on a Smash Bros. character model than her usual sports game attire (considering how little of the screen she'll take up) and offers some cool options for color swaps.
While idling, she'd shift around on her feet as though unable to contain her energy. Her dash would resemble a simple sprint (much like how she would in Strikers, or 3-on-3 Hoops, etc.), as would her initial jump. Her second would be a back flip resembling the high jump animation in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympics. Walking would be a sassy hip-sway, and crouching would be a squat with her hands on the ground, as if ready to jump. Crawling would be a simple hands-and-knees crawl with her head down and cautious.
Her voice will be immediately recognizable and... well, Daisy-like. She'll be easy to annoy with if you spam the right voice cues, but that's what makes Daisy Daisy.
---
Specials

B -- Sports Strike (from Mario Sports Mix, Tennis, Sluggers & Golf)

Much like Peach's Fsmash, this will rotate among four different moves: a baseball bat swing at mid-level, a dodgeball throw at head level, a tennis racket swing at head-to-mid-level and a golf swing at low-to-head level. All of these moves would launch a ball across the stage and have accompanying sound effects. Daisy will shout, "Heads up!" when using it and, if it connects, Daisy will belt out, "HA-HA!" Regardless of connecting, the ball will vanish soon afterward. Can be done in the air without free fall. Not the quickest projectile, and isn't easily spammed, but it does good damage.

sideB -- Start Your Engines (from Mario Kart)

Daisy will appear in a standard kart, much like Wario's bike, only lower to the ground. Instead of going forward instantly, though, you'll hold B to charge the move (revving the engine). If you don't charge long enough, you'll slowly move forward without going very far. Charge a good amount, and she'll fly forward while yelling excitedly. Charge too long and, like in Mario Kart, she'll overload and stall. (This takes a really long time, though.) This can be used for horizontal recovery, but finishes in a free fall. And the kart disappears once the move is done.


upB -- Pole Vault (from Mario & Sonic at the Olympics)

From her spot, on the ground or in the air, she'll strike a pole forward and down and use it to propel her into the air at a 70 degree arc. Think of it like Rosalina's upB, only not quite as high. The pole tip itself is a meteor smash if it connects, but has a very small chance of hitting. As she goes upward and forward, she kicks her legs out in front of her to strike anyone in her path, though the knockback is minimal. She does not go into free fall afterward; instead, she is in a state like after Sonic's upB. This is primarily for recovery, rather than dependable damage.


downB -- Roll of the Dice (from Mario Party)

Daisy will strike a pose toward the screen with her arm raised in the air as a Mario Party die appears from thin air and quickly spins to a number. Works like WFT's Deep Breathing, only it doesn't require as much time and works at random. If she rolls a ten, she'll excitedly yell, "Yeah!" and gain a temporary buff, represented by a gently glowing aura on her body. If she rolls anything else, she'll pout, "Aww..." and gain no buff. The frequency of using this move will diminish her chances of gaining a buff, meaning: if you barely use it, you're very likely to roll a ten when you do, but if you overuse it, you're progressively less likely to roll a ten. This would add a neat wrinkle to competitive play, as players would need to plan when to try and use the buff.
---
Normals

Ground Moves

Fsmash -- A spinning elbow strike in the mid-to-high range.
Usmash -- A bicycle overhead kick. Somewhat like Fox's, but more vertical with little forward range.
Dsmash -- A break dance-like kicking move, a la DDR: Mario Mix. Strikes both sides consecutively.
Jab -- A three-part jab, much like ZSS's in Brawl.
Dash Attack -- A headbutt with her arms bent and weight leaning forward.


Aerials

Nair -- Similar to Zelda's spinning Nair, but with little green flowers twirling around her and a childish "Aha!"
Fair -- A frontal kick with upward knockback; looks like a soccer kick.
Bair -- A double-leg kick much like Mario's. Horizontal knockback.
Uair -- An uppercut. (Mainly just because I think I have too many leg moves.)
Dair -- Legs spread outward and she throws her fists downward, like Sakura from Street Fighter. Possible meteor smash.


Tilts

Ftilt -- Strikes forward in a downward arc with a fencing sword, a la Mario & Sonic at the Olympics.
Utilt -- Waves her hand over her head to cast an array of flowers. Little knockback. For setups.
Dtilt -- Tripping leg sweep, not as good for setups.


Throws
(Grabbing results in a headlock, pummels are noogies. Because that's so Daisy.)

Fthrow -- Knee-to-the-gut, forward knockback.

Bthrow -- Spin 180 degrees to throw backwards.

Uthrow -- Just tosses the character over her head like a sack of potatoes. Little knockback; meant for setting up aerial chains.

Dthrow -- Pushes the character down, all bully-like, and performs an elbow drop on him to launch upward.
---

Taunts

Up Taunt -- Her "DAISY!" quote from selecting her in Mario Kart 8 while hopping up excitedly. Because that's so spammable.

Side Taunt -- She shifts her weight from her heels to her toes with an orange and yellow umbrella held behind her head, humming casually before blowing a big pink bubble that pops on her face. After her eyes grow in surprise, she bends over and cleans it off with her hands.

Down Taunt -- She whips out a basketball and does a quick dribble maneuver (front, back, between the legs) before standing with a hand on her hip and the ball spinning on her finger. Then she tosses the ball behind her nonchalantly. Basketball sound effects ensue.

Winning Pose -- Much like getting a birdy in Mario Golf: World Tour, she twirls in a flurry of flower petals and reappears in her standard dress-- only her finishing pose leaves her flexing her bicep and winking at the screen, saying, "Yeah-eah!" in typical Daisy fashion.
---

Final Smash

Ripping her "Crystallized Daisy" Mega Strike straight from Strikers. When pressing B, she'll kick a soccer ball forward at a slight upward angle. If she hits someone with the ball then, much like Captain Falcon's final smash, that character will go off stage and land in front of a soccer goal. He/she will then cower in fear as Daisy rises into the air, silhouettes and glows, charges her fist and punches a flaming soccer ball directly at the character. He/she is then struck and thrown through the goal's net, then flies off screen for an instant KO once the final smash is over.
---
Aaannnnd... I think that's it! She's a medium-to-lightweight character with moderate speed and surprising power. Her specials are fun but not the fastest, and she relies on her aerial game more than her ground game-- but if you can land a smash, she's pretty freakin' strong. Her specials rely on timing and counting uses, which gives her a unique opportunity for strategy in a 1v1 setup. I tried to reference every one of her spin-off appearances in some way; I don't think I missed any.

Hope y'all enjoy it.

There. Easy.

 

[Grunky Peep]

My choice for a Tekken character would be Jin, but the popular choice is Heihachi.

If you don't think Bob should be the Tekken character, you're lying to everyone, including yourself.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Hi there.

Man, we are almost there.

Just 2 weeks more.

We're on this ride until February 2020. Buckle up, kiddo.

 

[Noipoi]

Spoiler

Take the self-loathing and combine it with all the other real-world talents I haven't compared myself to (or mentioned) and you have someone with extremely-low self-esteem issues and a massive inferiority complex.

Are...are you me?

 

[The DanMan051]

We're on this ride until February 2020. Buckle up, kiddo.

Unless through some form of official means everyone gets leaked early on.

 

[Deleted member]

Unless through some form of official means everyone gets leaked early on.

Knowing Nintendo, they'll probably leave in some data indicating exactly who the DLC characters are when the game launches.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Unless through some form of official means everyone gets leaked early on.

Inb4 the entire dlc content gets datamined on the base game release.

'd

 

[Grunky Peep]

I mean morally they should

Business-wise? **** no

But what can Square even do with Geno without having to use Mario?

 

[Deleted member]

zzz i shleep i'ma need more than that Shi


I mean...seeing as this game seems to be driven towards the hardcore Smash fanbase who definitely like Geno...I dunno.
Just keep him in your prayers lol.

It's Arthur, King of the Brittons

Spoiler

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Saber_(Fate/stay_night)
Long answer is under "profile" if you wanna learn about her.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

THEY HAVE THE SAME ****ING ANIMATIONS IN AWAKENING ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME
MARTH IS ALSO LITERALLY THE ONLY CHARACTER TO NOT USE ROBIN'S ASSETS FOR A MODEL INSTEAD HAVING LUCINA'S AS A BASE
PF ****ING COURSE SHE'S A MARTH CLONE
FOR ****'S SAKES GUYS PLAY AWAKENING

It's like some of you guys snort a line of coke before every post. WHY IS EVERYONE YELLING TODAY?!?!

 

[staindgrey]

I'm gonna be 100 here

If you move on from a character because they were too nerfed, I'm hesitant to say you're a fan of the character in the first place-in my eyes a lot of these nerfs won't...actually matter, on a casual level, on a Elite Smash online level. It's for the pros to worry about.

Jr fans seem very committed. I doubt they'll move on. I respect them heavily.

I think there's a difference between caring about tier list placement and not finding them fun to play.

The Flash is my favorite DC hero by a longshot, but I haven't mained him in either Injustice game because **** that moveset. I hate it.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Knowing Nintendo, they'll probably leave in some data indicating exactly who the DLC characters are when the game launches.

*opens character file*
"SORA.CHR"
"EDELGARD.CHR"
"HEIHACHI.CHR"
"STEVE.CHR"
"GODKNOWSWHOELSE.CHR"

Nah. They'll have learned their lesson from Ryu and Roy, right?

Right?

 

[Luigi The President]

It's Arthur, King of the Brittons

Spoiler

View attachment 178958
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Saber_(Fate/stay_night)
Long answer is under "profile" if you wanna learn about her.

OH HER I've heard many tales about her.

She just doesn't click for me like Katalina did, I have weirdly specific likes. But Shi, for you, I'ma go read about Saber.

But what can Square even do with Geno without having to use Mario?

Not give him to Nintendo so they can make much more money then themselves
Here's the thing

Squenix either keeps Geno, doesn't lose money, /CAN/ use him for something later or...
Give him to Nintendo and just lose money.

 

[Deleted member]

*opens character file*
"SORA.CHR"
"EDELGARD.CHR"
"HEIHACHI.CHR"
"STEVE.CHR"
"GODKNOWSWHOELSE.CHR"

Nah. They'll have learned their lesson from Ryu and Roy, right?

Right?

Don't bet on it.

 

[ChronoBound]

I've said it countless times, but even with all the evidence that Dark Samus might be a playable character after the game was revealed at E3, I maintained that it wasn't confirmed, just that the possibility went from "Never going to happen" to "It might happen." Because I knew how much of a long shot it was even with the evidence, so I left a lot of room for doubt.

This is a very good post. So I am going to respond to individual parts to it.

You had the appropriate attitude in regards to the Dark Samus "crumbs". Look at what happened with Ashley and Shadow. People interpreted their Assist Trophies missing as being near confirmations for those characters to be playable.

I experienced the same thing when the Ridley rumors started happening in May with Vergeben. I was very skeptical about it happening due to the fact that the leaker in question had only about a 50/50 accuracy with his leaks, as well as the fact that Sakurai's statements on Ridley in November 2014 seemed to me that it was way too soon for Sakurai to have changed his mind on Ridley. I was on a "wait and see" attitude with it. There was also the fact that I had a skeptical attitude regarding "leaks" having Ridley on it since pre-Brawl. I certainly hopeful for Ridley, but I was not optimistic.

And when the Grinch hoax happened, I was surprised at how many people jumped on the "It's confirmed, it's legit" train so quickly, despite all the reasons to question its validity. It couldn't necessarily be disproven, so there was room for hope, but I heavily doubted it based on a number of issues (I laid out a whole friggin' essay about it the night before the Direct). It sucks that so many people got burned by it, which is exactly what the creator wanted to happen, but hopefully that incident will serve as a reminder from here-on-out for people to temper their expectations, so that this kind of thing won't happen again. Hopefully.

If you think that the Smash Bros. community will actually learn anything from the Grinch fiasco, you are unfortunately very mistaken. Even if there are those that do learn from it, a new generation of Smash Bros. fans will believe whatever well made hoax is crafted in the future even if it is picked apart by the community veterans.

However, its an important life lesson in general that I hope many learned from.

You're right, it really isn't that hard.

I've been playing Smash since 2002, and I've never had a character that I really loved be in any Smash game until now. I ended up growing attached to R.O.B., and he was my favorite Smash character for the duration of Brawl and Smash 4, but he wasn't a character that was shown off before Brawl where I went "YES! FINALLY!" or that I had much of a personal history or attachment to, outside of Mario Kart DS (though I do own an actual R.O.B. and Gyromite accessories, which I've played a handful of times over the years, but I can't remember if I got it before or after Brawl).

I started with Smash Bros. from the very beginning, getting the game only a few weeks after its launch in 1999. I was actually hyped for the game even before the game's release (due to Samus finally making her Nintendo 64 debut, and many of my other favorite Nintendo characters being there).

Your attachment to ROB actually reminds me of what happened to me with Roy. He was not a character I asked for, but I grew increasingly attached to Roy over the course of pre-Brawl, and helped me become interested in the Fire Emblem series. Playing FE6 was what got my interest in Fire Emblem to new heights (I ended up importing the Super Famicom Fire Emblem trilogy after I really enjoyed FE6 despite playing the game entirely in Japanese).

For many people, a character's appearance as a fighter in Smash Bros. is their first hands on experience regarding a particular character, and sometimes it even makes them fans of the character in general.

When Smash 4 came and went, and I didn't get any new characters I liked, I was still excited for them because they made other people happy. Seeing Maximilian and others lose their minds over Cloud and Bayonetta made their inclusions worth it. I like seeing other people's wishes come true, even if it means not all of mine will. When Daisy was announced, I didn't personally care, but I was still excited because I knew that it was a big deal for a lot of other people, so I thought it was awesome. I've never played or cared about Donkey Kong, but I knew K. Rool was a titan in terms of popularity for Smash, so I was hoping he'd get announced, too, if only for everyone else.

I felt this way regarding K. Rool (and now Isaac). I actually like Dixie Kong more, but I mentioned in the K. Rool topic (before he was confirmed) that if I was given the choice between only K. Rool or Dixie Kong being playable in Ultimate, I would choose the former because of how much "weight" (heh) the character had in general (main villain for the DK series, was up there with Ridley for the last ten years as the most wanted character for Smash Bros.). He also was on the cusp of being irrelevant, while Dixie Kong at least had Tropical Freeze. Sure I wish Dixie Kong had also ended up as a playable character, but at least K. Rool got resurrected.

It is also why I am very happy about Dark Samus being in even though I never requested her. She, along with K. Rool, was on the cusp of becoming irrelevant and possibly forgotten. The Prime trilogy was a masterpiece, and I feel Dark Samus was the thread for the entire trilogy (she was Metroid Prime in the first installment). Dark Samus fans had to wait behind Ridley fans, which came at the cost of her much of her fanbase dissipating. Earlier this year, it looked like neither character would be playable in the next game, while now we are in a situation where Metroid became the only series out of Kirby, Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Star Fox to reach four playable characters.

Part of that is just recognition of "Beggars can't be choosers." My top two are Dark Samus and Chibi-Robo. Both had little chance of anything. So if neither of them were confirmed, I could just go "Yeah, all right, whatever," because I'm not going to say "This character with little popularity, relevancy, or significance deserves to be in the game damn it, and if they don't get in over Incineroar, I'm not going to buy the game, and Sakurai's a ho." The only case that could've been made for either of them was that, since Ridley was said to not be viable, Dark Samus is the next in line for a Metroid character with plenty of potential and less issues, and Chibi-Robo had a 3DS game in 2015 that gave him a bit more relevancy and moveset potential, but that's it. I wasn't going to pretend that either of them were any more important than they actually were.

That is the right attitude to have. Even though Smash 4 hardly gave anything of what I wanted I still felt like between Smash 4 and Project M I had the "ultimate" Smash Bros. experience. Ultimate was simply a series of pleasant surprises for many of us.

Somehow... I got Dark Samus, and Chibi-Robo as a Mii costume. I can't tell you how that happened. I voted for Dark Samus in the ballot, but I didn't think it would work. I guess those 16 years of patience paid off, or something. Even if neither of them are full newcomers and compromises had to be made to include them, the fact that either of them made it in at all is huge. Some people complain that Dark Samus should've been a full character, but it was this or nothing. Echo Fighters are a sign that "We can't justify this character as a full newcomer, but we can at least get them in the game this way," which I can't necessarily disagree with.

Dark Samus's slot easily could have gone to the likes of Funky Kong, Impa, Octoling, Shadow, or Jeanne. She was really fortunate to have made it in, especially when you look at how the only two Assist Trophies to have ever been promoted are both icons (Little Mac and Isabelle).

When Brawl was released, it seemed Dark Samus lost her chance forever. When Smash 4 released, it seemed the same with Ridley. A year ago, if given a poll, and asked which of these series was the most likely to have four playable characters for the next game in the series:
- Donkey Kong
- Kirby
- Star Fox
- Metroid

Metroid would have by far the least votes. Yet somehow, Metroid ended up getting the playable representation that its fans wanted. Seeing Ridley and Dark Samus knock Samus back and forth between them during Dark Samus's unveil was an extremely hype moment because it showed one of the very charms with Smash Bros. which is simulating fantasy battles you always wanted to see.

The choices with the echoes in Ultimate also vindicated what I had said about clones ten years ago. That clones are not a problem so much as the characters that ended up being selected. I said clones could give characters that are both popular and important a means of getting into Smash Bros. but simply do not have "enough" of it to have a lot of time and resources to becoming a wholly unique fighter. It all culminated in the final newcomer trailer for Ultimate's base roster giving just as much spotlight to the clone as it did the newcomer.

Ridley, K. Rool, Simon, Inking, and Isabelle were all titans to be sure (probably the biggest Nintendo characters not yet in Smash Bros., with Simon having been the biggest "honorary" Nintendo character not yet in Smash Bros.). However, Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter, Chrom, and Ken also pleased a lot of people too, with all of them being iconic figures within their own franchises, and characters whom their fans thought would probably never be playable.

Sakurai said with Ultimate he wanted to make the impossible possible, and I think he succeeded in many regards. We have a game where the clone newcomers were just as much high notes for fans as the fully unique characters.

 

[FreeFox]

Same.

Nothing will keep me from Incineroar. Not his slow speed, or his abysmal recovery, nothing.

Jigglypuff is my third most used character in the last smash. I like having a challenge.

I find it more struggling playing a character when it is top tier.