Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

It's honestly way too early to make any sort of stage list. Don't we need to like, experiment with them all first?

I think this is the experimentation process.
I find it highly doubtful that this stagelist will remain consistent throughout SSBU's competitive lifetime,

 

[dezeray112]

This is my personal favorite. I hope the actual song makes it into Ultimate.

It fits really well.

Anyways, here are some of the tracks that I have played and tried around so far with the commercial trailer:

Power Rangers RPM Demo 1
Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue Opening
Power Rangers Lost Galaxy Opening
Power Rangers SPD Opening

I might test out a few more later.

What theme(s) would you guys pick to fit with the commercial?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Funny what is going on with this conversation about competitive smash..

because Florida still refuses to accurately count ballots for the midterm elections.

I can speak more on this, please DM me. THAT is what is atrocious. Refusing to count legitimate ballots.

A wild political discussion appeared!

I'll pass, thanks. I get mad enough about things that don't matter on the internet.

 

[TreeBranch]

I think this is the experimentation process.
I find it highly doubtful that this stagelist will remain consistent throughout SSBU's competitive lifetime,

I mean like actually having the game and testing all the stages as well. Do we even know how all the hazard less stages work yet?

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Everytime someone brings up the grinch (hiiiiisssss) I get flashbacks

 

[Blargg888]

For those that are still wondering, here is the footage of the Beastball in Smash Ultimate:

 

[SmashChu]

I think this is the experimentation process.
I find it highly doubtful that this stagelist will remain consistent throughout SSBU's competitive lifetime,

The way it works is they always remove, they never add. One of the weird things was Delfino Island which was OK in Brawl but banned in Smash 4. Like I said earlier, they need a clear standards. What is a legal stage. What is a counter pick. Make the list and see how it goes. Experiment if you need to. CEO wont be till late June so they have plenty of time to experiment with a list.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I mean like actually having the game and testing all the stages as well. Do we even know how all the hazard less stages work yet?

yep there was a dude who looked through all of them and confirmed it for us

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Don’t know if it’s been largely forgotten already, but I would be going into DLC assuming that each pack is going to be themed.

For example, Fighter, stage and music tracks all come from the same series. I think it’s fairly obvious that that is the way it will happen. Why introduce a new character from another company only to not bring in a stage and music with them? Anything else would seem...underwhelming.

Also, I'm not going to say this to make anyone feel bad, but maybe to reconsider their thoughts or feelings.

In approximately 25 days, we're going to have an HD Super Smash Brothers game on Nintendo Switch, in which you can play as any Smash character from the series. You also get to play as big time fan requests, like Ridley, K.Rool, and Inklings from Splatoon. Not only is this a new Smash game for the new generation of consoles, but it's also portable. You can play it on a plane, you can play it when you aren't home, you can play it while taking a ****. You also have a story mode to look forward to, as well as a total of 74 characters on the CSS to choose from, with 5 more on the way.

Yes, I myself am a little sad still that Rex won't be in (despite the fact that I think he's in great shape if there's a DLC pack 2). But there's so much to look forward to. We've come so far, and we're now within 30 days.

I don't sympathize with anybody if their main gripe right now is that their favorite character isn't in a commercial, or if their newcomer of choice that isn't really all that exciting isn't going to become paid DLC, or whatever. I mean, feel free to be disappointed, but some people are acting like they're fatal blows to a game that everybody is, eventually, going to stop talking about and actually play.

Sometimes you gotta stop typing and just think about that. The almost 8000 pages will lead to the game being out.

Like, I thought about myself being sad that Rex could honestly potentially not end up playable after DLC. However, I can't be all that upset when I got pretty much anything else I could have asked for, and even then the Mii Fighter costume of Rex is better than nothing. Granted, I do happen to really like XC2 and wanted Rex to get in, and the prospects of that not happening to make me a tad sad, but above and beyond that...I got Snake. I got Ridley. THE FANBASE GOT SNAKE, RIDLEY, AND K.ROOL.

This game is also probably going to be kept alive by (hopefully) a solid competitive community. If you haven't watched competitive Smash, I recommend it. It's some good ****, and that's coming from someone that finds Melee fun to watch, yet wants a new game to hopefully carry the torch someday.

Idk. I just find the whining, no matter how minor, to be kind of annoying. There's complaining about things that make a lot of sense, and then there's whining.

 

[ClaTheBae]

The way it works is they always remove, they never add. One of the weird things was Delfino Island which was OK in Brawl but banned in Smash 4. Like I said earlier, they need a clear standards. What is a legal stage. What is a counter pick. Make the list and see how it goes. Experiment if you need to. CEO wont be till late June so they have plenty of time to experiment with a list.

The Problem is with past smash games is that we had to settle for whatever. But now we can actually pick what stages we want and don't want, we have enough now

 

[TheCJBrine]

That Detective Pikachu movie's Jigglypuff.

Somehow it's weird and adorable at the same time. "Yay they're loving my son- oh...they got bored to sleep again..."

I am now wondering how Ghost-type Pokemon would look - mostly the Gengar line - as well as...well, I guess I'm curious about all 800+ of them...

Also Pikachu himself, my main favorite 'mon, as well as Pichu and Raichu. Ditto too.

edit: oh, derp, I didn't even realize there was a new trailer, I just saw the pics on here. 'Guess I get to see Pikachu afterall.

 

[monadoboy]

A screen tester on Reddit says that every "major" Pokemon makes an appearance, so Lucario is definitely in.

That's some good news right there.

Sakurai: Over a hundred stages! You can turn stage hazards off.
Competitive smash: Ha! Here have less than 15 playable stages.

Sad day. I cant even…..

I'd rather focus on the players and characters, but then again, I've never had a problem with Smashville/Town and City being played so much in the first place. It's great that there's over a hundred stages, but honestly? I'll only play ~40 of those. There's too many annoying stages, even in casual play. Hazard's off doesn't fix the uncomfortable layouts like the Reset Bomb Forest.

 

[TreeBranch]

yep there was a dude who looked through all of them and confirmed it for us

Dang really? Is there a document or something?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Alright since most people here actually seem to be approving of Detective Pikachu's, uh, artstyle, I'll refrain from complaining about it too much because I don't to ruin anyone's fun. But first, a ****post.

This is Yoshi.

And this is Yoshi as he appears in the Detective Pikachu movie.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't think it was posted yet. Xanadu released its ruleset for Smash Ultimate, which includes a stagelist:

https://np.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9wika4/xanadu_smash_ultimate_ruleset_2018/

Look, I'm not a big competitive guy, but even to me this looks incredibly confusing.

Why on earth is the stage list that small? Banning FoD when that's a staple competitive Melee stage? All this seems to promote is zero variety.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright since most people here actually seem to be approving of Detective Pikachu's, uh, artstyle, I'll refrain from complaining about it too much because I don't to ruin anyone's fun. But first, a ****post.

This is Yoshi.


And this is Yoshi as he appears in the Detective Pikachu movie.

tbh dragon yoshi looks badass I would be ok with this

 

[Luigi The President]

Alright since most people here actually seem to be approving of Detective Pikachu's, uh, artstyle, I'll refrain from complaining about it too much because I don't to ruin anyone's fun. But first, a ****post.

This is Yoshi.


And this is Yoshi as he appears in the Detective Pikachu movie.

Implying Nintendo would ever use Yoshi for anything
#YoshiGangRiseUp

 

[Jetsurge]

Now I know why rest kills you -

 

[Pyr]

Now I know why rest kills you -
View attachment 177532

Well this hits uncanny valley rather hard, now doesn't it?

 

[SmashChu]

Just on the competitive stuff, this is what I would say to the communit

1)Make Requirements for Stages and Test Them - Like I said, there should be no excuse why the community can't create a list of 10 neutral stages and 20 counterpicks. With 103 stages plus more coming, this should be very easy. The community needs an actual definition for what these are. This is also why casual players give them flake (which results in whining from the community). Define them, define what results in a stage being banned, and make a list. Experiment. Move around if needed (which means more than striking more stages). Smash has multiple maps. If competitive Heroes of the Storm players can memorize the merc camp timings of multiple maps, then you should be able to deal with different platform layouts.

2)Smash Meter - This was clearly designed with competitive play in mind. Every fighting game has a special meter. It's not a new concept. Even stuff like Street Fighter 4's Ultra Move (which was an obvious comeback mechanic) was in tournaments. Specials/Ultras are a part of fighting games and they are a part of Smash. "BUT WHAT IF ONE IS TOO STRONG." Having a strong super isn't new. If a character has a good Final Smash then that character is better. Heck, some Marvel characters were good just for their assist. Unless it makes the game actually broken, it should be tested in competitive play.

3)Sudden Death is the New Norm - In any game, rarely, if ever, should the community be circumvent the rules of a game. The current Sudden Death rule is like saying "Three checks you lose" in Chess or "First to king wins" in Checkers. It's a circumvention of the rules of the game. Sudden Death is the rule for Smash Bros. They have changed it to instead of camping the ledges, you have a finite amount of time and you actually have to control the middle. This solves the problem of why it was circumvented in the first place. Now it should be turned back. The game decided that SD determines the winner and the Smash Community shouldn't be changing that just because "I don't like it."

I feel too often the community does stuff because they don't like it, not because it's a real issue. In other games, people adapt. They learn the rules of the game and they deal with them. Smash has tried to meet the community in the middle but they want to bury their feet in the sand and say NO because people don't want to learn no things in a new game. If you are upset that you have to learn new things, all I have to say is "Welcome to Video Games."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Now I know why rest kills you -
View attachment 177532

That's nightmare fuel there.

 

[Deleted member]

I tried my hand at the meme.
Might redo it so the music starts in by fading rather than abruptly starts, but it's alright otherwise.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I actually like how the Pokemon are sort of photo realistic CGI, then you have their cartoon-y versions as merch in the movie.

Because it's true to our real world so it makes sense in the world of Pokemon it'd be the same.

We really do make cartoon versions of any of the animals we typically think of as cute like cats and dogs even cuter as cartoons.

 

[Idon]

2)Smash Meter - This was clearly designed with competitive play in mind.

****ING
NO.

Looking at footage of ANY of these games over the past week will show you that this was entirely meant for just CASUAL PLAY.
It's unbalanced in every sense of the word, slows the gameplay down, and results in victories and losses that are wholly undeserved. There's been a thread discussing this for weeks and I think everyone here can agree that it's a ****ty idea that got way too much time thought about it than it EVER DESERVED. You can ask anyone here, on reddit, twitch, or any site or Smash player and they'll say it's a goddammed terrible idea.

Sakurai himself stated that was meant ONLY for casual play than anything else. The only thing they have in common with other meter based mechanics in other fighting games is that it's a flashy move and that it's gained from trading damage.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Look, I'm not a big competitive guy, but even to me this looks incredibly confusing.

Why on earth is the stage list that small? Banning FoD when that's a staple competitive Melee stage? All this seems to promote is zero variety.

But this game isn't Melee. It's Smash Ultimate. If it's banned, there's probably an actual reason.

Does the list even delve into why each stage is banned and why each stage is allowed?

Not saying the list should be this small, of course, but the only confusing part I can realistically see is if they didn't give more information on why they were banned.

 

[SmashChu]

Don’t know if it’s been largely forgotten already, but I would be going into DLC assuming that each pack is going to be themed.

For example, Fighter, stage and music tracks all come from the same series. I think it’s fairly obvious that that is the way it will happen. Why introduce a new character from another company only to not bring in a stage and music with them? Anything else would seem...underwhelming.

Also, I'm not going to say this to make anyone feel bad, but maybe to reconsider their thoughts or feelings.

In approximately 25 days, we're going to have an HD Super Smash Brothers game on Nintendo Switch, in which you can play as any Smash character from the series. You also get to play as big time fan requests, like Ridley, K.Rool, and Inklings from Splatoon. Not only is this a new Smash game for the new generation of consoles, but it's also portable. You can play it on a plane, you can play it when you aren't home, you can play it while taking a ****. You also have a story mode to look forward to, as well as a total of 74 characters on the CSS to choose from, with 5 more on the way.

Yes, I myself am a little sad still that Rex won't be in (despite the fact that I think he's in great shape if there's a DLC pack 2). But there's so much to look forward to. We've come so far, and we're now within 30 days.

I don't sympathize with anybody if their main gripe right now is that their favorite character isn't in a commercial, or if their newcomer of choice that isn't really all that exciting isn't going to become paid DLC, or whatever. I mean, feel free to be disappointed, but some people are acting like they're fatal blows to a game that everybody is, eventually, going to stop talking about and actually play.

Sometimes you gotta stop typing and just think about that. The almost 8000 pages will lead to the game being out.

Like, I thought about myself being sad that Rex could honestly potentially not end up playable after DLC. However, I can't be all that upset when I got pretty much anything else I could have asked for, and even then the Mii Fighter costume of Rex is better than nothing. Granted, I do happen to really like XC2 and wanted Rex to get in, and the prospects of that not happening to make me a tad sad, but above and beyond that...I got Snake. I got Ridley. THE FANBASE GOT SNAKE, RIDLEY, AND K.ROOL.

This game is also probably going to be kept alive by (hopefully) a solid competitive community. If you haven't watched competitive Smash, I recommend it. It's some good ****, and that's coming from someone that finds Melee fun to watch, yet wants a new game to hopefully carry the torch someday.

Idk. I just find the whining, no matter how minor, to be kind of annoying. There's complaining about things that make a lot of sense, and then there's whining.

I think the whole "Rex can't be in Smash" is overblown. In general, I feel like people are coming up with their own rules with DLC rather than just observing what happened.

Nintendo is choosing the DLC but Sakurai made the game. He has even mentioned the DLC line-up was just completed. You are talking about two different parties involved here. One made the game and has placed things like the spirits or the Mii costumes in and the other is another entity (though publishing the game) that is deciding what they want. Rex is popular, XC2 did very well and Nintendo sees Smash as pushing their IPs. I don't think they'd say "Oh, we can't add him because of this Mii costume." More likely Sakurai's comment was about the main game, not the DLC.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Okay just watched the new trailer and Pikachu is amazinggggggggggggggggg-

Charizard looks odd, though, but of course he's supposed to be a reptile with scales and all. Why was he trying to eat Pikachu though

 

[Deleted member]

I think the whole "Rex can't be in Smash" is overblown. In general, I feel like people are coming up with their own rules with DLC rather than just observing what happened.

Nintendo is choosing the DLC but Sakurai made the game. He has even mentioned the DLC line-up was just completed. You are talking about two different parties involved here. One made the game and has placed things like the spirits or the Mii costumes in and the other is another entity (though publishing the game) that is deciding what they want. Rex is popular, XC2 did very well and Nintendo sees Smash as pushing their IPs. I don't think they'd say "Oh, we can't add him because of this Mii costume." More likely Sakurai's comment was about the main game, not the DLC.

I'd say don't get your hopes up.

 

[Nekoo]

>Everyone complain about tiny stage list

>Me when I see Arena Ferox and Castle Siege as counter pick

*TWILIGHT OF THE GODS/ CELICA MAP 1 / ID INTENSIFIES*

 

[Pyr]

2)Smash Meter - This was clearly designed with competitive play in mind. Every fighting game has a special meter. It's not a new concept. Even stuff like Street Fighter 4's Ultra Move (which was an obvious comeback mechanic) was in tournaments. Specials/Ultras are a part of fighting games and they are a part of Smash. "BUT WHAT IF ONE IS TOO STRONG." Having a strong super isn't new. If a character has a good Final Smash then that character is better. Heck, some Marvel characters were good just for their assist. Unless it makes the game actually broken, it should be tested in competitive play.

The thing is that Super Meters can be used for non-Supers and is a resource. In Smash, that's not the case. It's a matter of gain, use, forget. I've written pages on why it shouldn't be even considered for a side event.

Oh, and the fact that Sakuria himself has said that it's not really meant for competitive play, so that part is 100% wrong.

Oh yeah, Sakurai himself believing FSM is more "suited to casual play" than competitive play ("if you're up for a party"- August Smash Direct and the Famitsu column)

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Okay just watched the new trailer and Pikachu is amazinggggggggggggggggg-

Charizard looks odd, though, but of course he's supposed to be a reptile with scales and all. Why was he trying to eat Pikachu though

From the context, that looks like a sort of contrived scenario where Pikachu has to compete in a Pokemon battle. It obviously looks like a sort of underground Pokemon battle arena, Charizard probably has a scar over his eye because he's the long-time reigning champ or something.

 

[FreeFox]

That's some good news right there.


I'd rather focus on the players and characters, but then again, I've never had a problem with Smashville/Town and City being played so much in the first place. It's great that there's over a hundred stages, but honestly? I'll only play ~40 of those. There's too many annoying stages, even in casual play. Hazard's off doesn't fix the uncomfortable layouts like the Reset Bomb Forest.

But we are getting like 10% of all stages as playable. It is totally underwhelming when we have such a huge stage selection. It looks like a waste of work. If this was the selection for competitive and I was Sakurai, I wouldnt even bother with the stage Hazard toggle for the next smash. 90% of all that work was for nothing. I know you probably arent but having a small selection of stages is really boring. And that list is really terrible (there are many stages that are being thrown of the window because of similar stage look). I know that not every stage needs to be playable, walk off stages should remian banned and the same with stages with campy places but this looks like other extreme. Instead of making all stages playable, they are putting almost every stage as unplayable. Wouldnt it be better if we could reach a happy médium between the two?

 

[SmashChu]

****ING
NO.

Looking at footage of ANY of these games over the past week will show you that this was entirely meant for just CASUAL PLAY.
It's unbalanced in every sense of the word, slows the gameplay down, and results in victories and losses that are wholly undeserved. There's been a thread discussing this for weeks and I think everyone here can agree that it's a ****ty idea that got way too much time thought about it than it EVER DESERVED. You can ask anyone here, on reddit, or any site and they'll say it's a terrible idea.

Sakurai himself stated that was meant ONLY for casual play than anything else. The only thing they have in common with other meter based mechanics in other fighting games is that it's a flashy move and that it's gained from trading damage.

WHAT!!!! A special move resulting in victories. It's not like that has never happen in another competitive fighting game befo.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-00IYp9-U

Thanks for proving my point thought.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Delete this.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

But we are getting like 10% of all stages as playable. It is totally underwhelming when we have such a huge stage selection. It looks like a waste of work. If this was the selection for competitive and I was Sakurai, I wouldnt even bother with the stage Hazard toggle for the next smash. 90% of all that work was for nothing. I know you probably arent but having a small selection of stages is really boring. And that list is really terrible (there are many stages that are being thrown of the window because of similar stage look). I know that not every stage needs to be playable, walk off stages should remian banned and the same with stages with campy places but this looks like other extreme. Instead of making all stages playable, they are putting almost every stage as unplayable. Wouldnt it be better if we could reach a happy médium between the two?

Geez 10% are you kidding me, can't they just use the alternate forms?

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

WHAT!!!! A special move resulting in victories. It's not like that has never happen in another competitive fighting game befo.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-00IYp9-U

Thanks for proving my point thought.

Street Fighter and Smash Bros are two very different fighting games though.

 

[Luigi The President]

WHAT!!!! A special move resulting in victories. It's not like that has never happen in another competitive fighting game befo.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-00IYp9-U

Thanks for proving my point thought.

Your first mistake was calling Smash a competitive fighting game

 

[Wyoming]

I think the whole "Rex can't be in Smash" is overblown. In general, I feel like people are coming up with their own rules with DLC rather than just observing what happened.

Nintendo is choosing the DLC but Sakurai made the game. He has even mentioned the DLC line-up was just completed. You are talking about two different parties involved here. One made the game and has placed things like the spirits or the Mii costumes in and the other is another entity (though publishing the game) that is deciding what they want. Rex is popular, XC2 did very well and Nintendo sees Smash as pushing their IPs. I don't think they'd say "Oh, we can't add him because of this Mii costume." More likely Sakurai's comment was about the main game, not the DLC.

Counter-argument: If we assume it was sometime during development that DLC was decided on, then I could argue Sakurai added content for characters he knew wouldn't be on the DLC as a consolation prize.

(And the "the line-up is now complete" could simply be a statement to minimize the amount of requests flooding his social media. It could have been decided earlier but they only tweeted that so Sakurai stops getting harrassed. I doubt they'd finish the entire DLC negotiation process a few days after its announcement)

Of course we will never know until we see the first character or two. Heh.

 

[Paperchampion23]

WHAT!!!! A special move resulting in victories. It's not like that has never happen in another competitive fighting game befo.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-00IYp9-U

Thanks for proving my point thought.

Uhhhhhh, did you see ALL of the parry's he did before he used his super combo?

And games like street fighter are much more scrutinized into terms of balancing so most characters have actual tradeoffs to having a decent super combo

 

[SmashChu]

The thing is that Super Meters can be used for non-Supers and is a resource. In Smash, that's not the case. It's a matter of gain, use, forget. I've written pages on why it shouldn't be even considered for a side event.

Oh, and the fact that Sakuria himself has said that it's not really meant for competitive play, so that part is 100% wrong.

In Street Fighter 4, Ultra moves can't be used for anything else besides the Ultra move. They are also often stronger than Super moves which is also where you EX moves come from. Ultra moves even get stronger the more damage you've taken, making them an extreme comeback mechanic. Street Fighter 4 never had problems and the game actually resulted in a sort of golden age of fighting games.

It goes back to what I said before. The community isn't even willing to experiment with something and just says "NO WE CAN'T HAVE THIS." How about people actually run it in tournament before saying it's bad?