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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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staindgrey

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Why did Sega go third-party and when did it happen? It's not something I've thought about too much, but I'm a little curious now.
Oh it's one of the most fascinating things in videogame history to me. I went to a panel with the old execs of Sega of America and read a couple books about the inner workings at Sega during that time frame. Here are the cliff notes, going off memory (so kinda of vague):

- When Sega wanted to make a successor to the Genesis, they at first approached Sony, but balked, then tasked two internal teams to design hardware. One was Japanese, one was American. The Japanese one won out, but Sega of America thought it was a terrible decision because trying to reproduce arcade hardware with two CPUs would make it much harder to program for.

- Sega of America then designed the Sega 32x, a peripheral to add to the Genesis to make higher quality games, all while Sega partnered with Panasonic (I think) to license the Sega CD peripheral. So in about a year and a half span, they were releasing three competing consoles under the same brand, cannibalizing their own sales.

- Sega announced a surprise release of the Saturn at E3, in which customers could go pick up a console RIGHT NOW. But to keep the launch secret, many retailers didn't get any consoles and were understandably pissed about it, refusing to sell Saturns afterward. Then, at that very same E3, the Sony Playstation was announced to be $100 less. Why go buy a console now for $500 when a $400 one is coming in a couple months?

- All of this hurt Sega significantly, and they prematurely started work on the Dreamcast. Their Sonic game intended for the Saturn never came-- it was a game similar to Super Mario Galaxy in concept, actually-- so they reused those assets to make Sonic Adventure a launch title. The Dreamcast actually saw the largest console launch in history, making Sega of Japan extremely confident in the brand, but Sega of America was still warning them that the PS2 would kill their console if they didn't work harder to gain third party support and add significant online support and a DVD player.

- Sure enough, the PS2 coming out a year later killed the Dreamcast. It had better graphics, built-in DVD playing and the Sony brand name (the PS1 outsold the Sega Saturn, like, 10-to-1 I think). So while the Dreamcast started strong because it was first, it soon became old news against the PS2, and the upcoming Gamecube and Xbox. Further, the Dreamcast was incredibly easy to hack to play burned discs, so their software sales plummeted. So Sega hemorrhaged money since the mid-nineties, were becoming a poor financial investment, and finally had to restructure their company if they didn't want to go bankrupt. Since their consoles were what had lost them so much money for the last half decade, they simply decided to stop making consoles. Making games for other consoles was a safer investment.

- Originally they approached Microsoft to try and team up to make the Xbox, fun fact. That's why the sequels to Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon and Shenmue were exclusive to Xbox. But apparently, Microsoft's head honchos nixed the deal because they saw Sega as a liability considering their track record. So instead, Sega was bought out by a holding company, Sammy, who then focused their developers on easy-profit games like Sonic, Football Manager and officially licensed games like Captain America. It's a major reason why we see so many ports of Genesis titles and why so many smaller Sega IPs like NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, etc. have rarely seen further sequels.


There are plenty of videos about Sega's downfall if you're genuinely interested. I find their history fascinating. SO many consecutive wrong turns that essentially birthed both the Playstation and Xbox brands. Kind of ironic.
 
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D

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That's what I'm arguing. I think people really do want Kingdom Hearts on the Switch.

I'm not arguing that they hate it.

What I'm saying is that Sora coming to Smash, but no switch of any Kingdom Hearts games when Nintendo fans have been left in the proverbial dust since 2012, would be heavily bitter sweet and send mixed messages.

And it's not like 3 can't get ported and optimized eventually. But I can get having to wait for that port if only to avoid delaying the game from release even further. Lol.
I mean, Snake got in and came back for this game without any new MGS Switch games on the horizon.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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I just thought of something. The DLC Fighters pack reminds me heavily of the premise of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in which there are five golden tickets discovered by five lucky people, and whoever finds the tickets is invited. What if the DLC works the same way, where five random characters from different worlds each find a golden Smash ticket? The five characters then end up touring the factory, and in a process of elimination, there is one true winner. This needs to be a fanfic.
The winner was Piranha Plant.

he can be downloaded for free.

This comment was made by Plant Gang.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Is anybody else sad about the loss of instruction booklets with games these days? I remember being in elementary school and poring over the OG N64 Smash Bros instruction booklet appreciating the art and items and stuff and that fresh instruction booklet smell while I was in class because I couldn't play the game outside of my house and the booklet was that one piece of the game I could take with me on the go. The 90s were a simple time
not really. less trash and well, internet, Incan just look the stuff up
 

Bladeviper

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When the Dreamcast came out I thought it was Sega's very late answer to the N64 and PS1. I didn't even know the Saturn existed.

That should say all about the failures of their post-Genesis efforts.
sony ****ting on the saturn is still my favorite e3 moment
 

Shroob

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The funniest thing about Katalina, if she gets in...

She's not even the protagonist, mascot, nor secondary main character/antagonist of her franchise.



She's your first party member, but outside of the story, she's really not 'that' important. Yeah, she's 'looking' to be the main character of the PS4 game, but we literally only have that one trailer so far, that's it.
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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I mean, Snake got in and came back for this game without any new MGS Switch games on the horizon.
Eh, to be fair, recently enough, he'd been in Twin Snakes. A game that you could play on your Wii. And that was back when third party characters in Smash were unheard of to boot.
 

Will

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You also have to add in Europe alongside the whole "list of countries", so that's pretty much 2/3rds of people who don't know Granblue.

Also before people try to bring this argument up, "Nintendo has stock in Cygames" is a pretty weak argument when Bandai Namco also has stock in Cygames, because y'know, THE iDOLM@STER Cinderella Girls > everything else over there.
I agree. I don't want Katalina in Smash, not because I don't like her or I don't think she "fits", rather I just don't ****ing know her enough to be interested.

If Ridley is Captain America, Katalina is the Silver Samurai.
 
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Eh, to be fair, recently enough, he'd been in Twin Snakes. A game that you could play on your Wii. And that was back when third party characters in Smash were unheard of to boot.
Yeah, that's fair.

Dream Drop Distance was originally on the 3DS, though, so Sora does have that.
 

Sigran101

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Yeah, the Mii costume is better than nothing. Never thought I'd be side-maining Mii Gunner though, lol.

Ray could still get in as a DLC fighter with a Holosseum stage.

Truthfully, if Banjo-Kazooie gets in, my roster is complete, but if Ray gets in as well, my roster is PERFECTION.
I'd be shocked if he's one of the dlc characters, but if he was, Sakurai could charge me 500 dollars for it and I'd pay up.
 
D

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I agree. I don't want Katalina in Smash, not because I don't like her or I don't think she "fits", rather I just don't ****ing know her enough to be interested.

If Ridley is Captain America, Katalina is the Silver Samurai.
Nah, Katalina would be Paibok.
 

Luigi The President

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If Katalina is in that'll be a character, one of very few I...actively do not want.

Simply because this is gonna be the last Smash for a LONG time. I'd rather one of the coveted 5 DLC's not be a character I do not care for in the slightest who has no Nintendo relation as of yet.
 

Lodestar65

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The funniest thing about Katalina, if she gets in...

She's not even the protagonist, mascot, nor secondary main character/antagonist of her franchise.



She's your first party member, but outside of the story, she's really not 'that' important. Yeah, she's 'looking' to be the main character of the PS4 game, but we literally only have that one trailer so far, that's it.
So it would be like if Virion got into Smash if they wanted a FEH rep?
 
D

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If Katalina is in that'll be a character, one of very few I...actively do not want.

Simply because this is gonna be the last Smash for a LONG time. I'd rather one of the coveted 5 DLC's not be a character I do not care for in the slightest who has no Nintendo relation as of yet.
Also you're paying $5.99 or even more in other countries for her. Yeah, because I'm gonna pay money for Great Value-brand Fire Emblem.
 
D

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If Katalina is in that'll be a character, one of very few I...actively do not want.

Simply because this is gonna be the last Smash for a LONG time. I'd rather one of the coveted 5 DLC's not be a character I do not care for in the slightest who has no Nintendo relation as of yet.
Same. Though I could think of worse inclusions.
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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Yeah, that's fair.

Dream Drop Distance was originally on the 3DS, though, so Sora does have that.
True...... but then again, that game's been passed onto fi the playstation.

The best scenario is that alongside Sora getting into Smash, Square also annouce a resurgence of Kingdom Hearts for Nintendo, available for the Switch.
 

Shroob

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So it would be like if Virion got into Smash if they wanted a FEH rep?
Pretty much. Except she's actually relevant to the game's plot.


I understand 'why' they probably can't use the main characters of the game, since they're literal blank slates who have like 50 different classes that they can re-speck into, so designing a moveset about class changing would be insane, but it's very odd.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Why did Sega go third-party and when did it happen? It's not something I've thought about too much, but I'm a little curious now.
It was due to a culmination of dumb moves on Sega's end since like 1993. Sega decided to elongate The Genesis lifespan, with some dumb add-ons like the Sega CD and the 32X around the same time that they released their new 32 Bit system called the Sega Saturn... All 3 of those flopped, and in 1998, Sega put their act together and decided to take one more shot... enter, the Sega Dreamcast, a console ahead of it's time, with 128 bit Graphics, as well as Online Play and Music CD playback, it was a pretty neato console... unfortunately, it was too late... People really couldn't trust Sega anymore, but do you know who they could trust? Those Sony guys, and they got the Playstation 2 coming out with DVD playback, at a time where DVD players are expensive and hard to find... So they flocked over to the PS2, which went on to become the best selling system of all time. Things only got worse when Nintendo announced the Gamecube, and Microsoft announced the Xbox. In 2001, Sega decided to finally wave the white flag, and became a third party publisher...
 
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Raxxel

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Adding Katalina would be like adding an Angry Bird.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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eh this Smash has given me a lot of who I wanted / who I think is cool :ultkrool::ultisabelle::ultdaisy::ultridley: Incineroar and Piranha Plant, so if Katalina is in then so be it.

I'm pretty much just openly accepting anyone at this point.
 

Luigi The President

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Also you're paying $5.99 or even more in other countries for her. Yeah, because I'm gonna pay money for Great Value-brand Fire Emblem.
If Sora/DQ gets in I'll be eternally sad over Geno but I respect KH enough and recognize it as an icon to be totally OK with it. DQ a bit less so lol.
And Microsoft I want Steve AND Banjo AND Master Chief so I win either way.

But I don't want this girl.
 

staindgrey

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When the Dreamcast came out I thought it was Sega's very late answer to the N64 and PS1. I didn't even know the Saturn existed.

That should say all about the failures of their post-Genesis efforts.
It also didn't help that the Saturn had a higher failure rate than the PS1 or N64.

I would've grown up a Sega fanboy, but my Saturn stopped reading discs less than a year in, and our family sold it at a garage sale and got an N64 instead. I didn't get back into Sega until Sonic Adventure 2 was coming out and the Dreamcast had been discounted to $99. It was the first console I'd ever bought with my own money.
 

TeamFlareZakk

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If Sora/DQ gets in I'll be eternally sad over Geno but I respect KH enough and recognize it as an icon to be totally OK with it. DQ a bit less so lol.
And Microsoft I want Steve AND Banjo AND Master Chief so I win either way.

But I don't want this girl.
I want all girls for dlc :grin:
 

Shroob

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I will say though. I love Granblue's soundtrack. You can really feel the Final Fantasy influences on it.


 

TeamFlareZakk

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User was warned for this post; censor dodging(Please write out the words as normal. The autocensor will catch it).
But it wouldn't
Katalina could easily have a realizable move set unlike an Angry Bird...
Katalina looks like she kicks ass and looks beautiful doing it.. Just how I like em.
 
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