Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

I think the crying about KI is a overkill, but Palutena very obviously got preference over other characters, she's the only one with unique customs.

Little Mac was the only character with a K.O. meter mechanic. Rosalina got to be a puppet master. Robin has weapon durability and item management. Mega Man had pellets instead of a jab, side tilt or nair. Then you have Ryu who's literally just a Street Fighter character put strait into Smash Bros with special move inputs and everything and Bayonetta who had her Bat Within nonsense. I think during Smash 4's development Sakurai was going through a "give (almost) everyone a gimmick" phase.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I am started to feel tired about the Geno debated right now, why not try to debate another character's chances?

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He is also owned by Namco, whom worked with Ultimate. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

 

[Robertman2]

Hope they compromised and let Sakurai use Geno in exchange for also tossing in Sora or Lara.




Or Sakurai went "lol give me the guy from the bouncer"

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I think people like to latch on to unlikely characters so they can feel good when they're right and not care when they're wrong. It has nothing to do with actually believing the character will get in.

 

[Nekoo]

so Sakurai seems to have had or has the license to use Geno's likeness.

I'm like, almost pretty sure it is not the same contract between "Using a costume" and "Using the character itself as a playable characters".
It's not something about likeness, it's literally a contract saying "You can make a Geno costume" kind of contract, nothing about Likeness as it is not a real persons.

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

It's Either Llyod/Yuri for popularity, Cress for a Marth case scenario of "First one" or Sorey for "Mix of relevance and Popularity"

 

[Iko MattOrr]

It doesn't surprise me that people asked for a Goomba, people unironically wanted a Knuckle Joe in Brawl, and that was only because it had an episode in the Kirby anime.
I was happy when they announced it as an assist trophy because finally people stopped requesting him and started to focus on the more consistent characters from that series
but it didn't last for too long sadly

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Here: https://www.inverse.com/article/49904-smash-ultimate-leaks-geno-square-enix-roster-rumor

Not sure if I can believe the Geno pics, but the other parts of the leak I can believe

 

[Sigran101]

I like how everyone think that Sakurai is the one who can pick Geno when in the end it's Square who say yes or no.
I really hope for Sakurai that they were in a good day, because, I don't think Square are the one lending a characters if they have nothing to win in the story.

Which is literally the biggest problem for Geno.
They might have accepted as a Mii Costume, but they might not accept Geno to represent their Company in smash next to Cloud.

That's basically, Geno's issue, this and MAYBE relevance as in like, Square wanting to use a characters more recent.

Sakurai doesn't go to a company and say "what character do you want in smash?". It's his game. He asks a company for a character he wants. The company then says yes or no. What does SE get out of Geno in smash? Obviously money. it's not all about advertising.

 

[Pyra]

I am started to feel tired about the Geno debated right now, why not try to debate another character's chances?

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He is also owned by Namco, whom worked with Ultimate. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

*shrug*
I don't know much about him other than he was fun to play as in SSF2 and I would be cool with his inclusion.

 

[Flyboy]

I am started to feel tired about the Geno debated right now, why not try to debate another character's chances?

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He is also owned by Namco, whom worked with Ultimate. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

The "leak" with him and Wave Race was beautiful and I have friends who love Symphonia so I am still holding out hope for him. It's a small glimmer, but it's there.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I am started to feel tired about the Geno debated right now, why not try to debate another character's chances?

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He is also owned by Namco, whom worked with Ultimate. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn".

Yeah, meh. :/
I wouldn't mind him, I'd actually really like him to be included, but I don't care too much about him.

 

[Nekoo]

Sakurai doesn't go to a company and say "what character do you want in smash?". It's his game. He asks a company for a character he wants. The company then says yes or no. What does SE get out of Geno in smash? Obviously money. it's not all about advertising.

Yes, but then it comes back to my argument back then.
Sakurai talked about how the Deal with Cloud in Smash 4 was miraculous.

If he can make a miracle happens a second time he have two choice

Try to send a love letter to the fan, and get Geno.
Try to get another Miraculous Deal and bring a big gun characters.


But either way, in the end IT IS Square who say yes or no.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm like, almost pretty sure it is not the same contract between "Using a costume" and "Using the character itself as a playable characters".
It's not something about likeness, it's literally a contract saying "You can make a Geno costume" kind of contract, nothing about Likeness as it is not a real persons.

I feel that it's not a matter of how you use the character, just the character itself. The mii costume may not be the actual character, but using the character's name and making it obvious that it's them would require a license I believe. I also don't see why it'd be different between a character and costume, as either way, Square probably doesn't care as long as they're represented in some form (Cloud) and they receive money and credit.

They also seemed to have no problem with him using Cloud; in fact, Nomura wondered why not a more-recent character, but wasn't against Sakurai choosing Cloud. I realize Cloud is the face of the series, but Nomura's reaction seems like they didn't really mind whatever.

 

[DutchPichu]

Who do you guys think have the best artwork / character poses? I personally really like Captain Falcon, Shulk, Simon and Snake. I think I like Corrin’s character pose the least.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Sakurai doesn't go to a company and say "what character do you want in smash?". It's his game. He asks a company for a character he wants. The company then says yes or no. What does SE get out of Geno in smash? Obviously money. it's not all about advertising.

We know this happens because one of the Square Enix guys said he expected Sakurai would ask for someone more recent other than Cloud. Sakurai decides the characters, it's up to the studios to give them to him.

 

[Pyra]

The "leak" with him and Wave Race was beautiful and I have friends who love Symphonia so I am still holding out hope for him. It's a small glimmer, but it's there.

Man you're kinda making me want Wave Race in just for the sake of your posts aging really well

 

[Untouch]

I think Square Enix is one of the few companies that it's really hard to call any of their characters a lock.
Some have larger speculation circles and fanbases, but there's a lot of evidence pointing towards a lot of characters right now.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

It's Either Llyod/Yuri for popularity, Cress for a Marth case scenario of "First one" or Sorey for "Mix of relevance and Popularity"

Actually, I think Lloyd had a better chance than Yuri or Cress.

Here is Sakurai's quote:

—The Tales series has 20 years of history, how did you decide on Lloyd for the costume?

Sakurai: I’m not sure if there was any other appropriate choice?

—For example, how about the protagonist of the first game, Cress? [TN: From Tales of Phantasia]

Sakurai: I really think it has to be Lloyd here (laughs). I could have gone down the route of choosing from the first entry in the series, but for old games it’s somewhat common for the editorial supervision from the original creator to make the process difficult.

 

[Noipoi]

Who do you guys think have the best artwork / character poses? I personally really like Captain Falcon, Shulk, Simon and Snake. I think I like Corrin’s character pose the least.

I like how R.O.B. isn't just standing around anymore.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I am started to feel tired about the Geno debated right now, why not try to debate another character's chances?

Debate Lloyd, he is requested and was a Mii Costume at one point. He is also owned by Namco, whom worked with Ultimate. He has a good chance to be in, any opinions?

If a Bandai Namco character is in the game, I think Lloyd's the most likely. Whereas Heihachi works more as a DLC character. Of course, the reason I'm debating it is because we already have Capcom Konami and SE is rumored, with Microsoft involved with the game in some capacity--add to that every company returning for veterans, that's a lot of third parties, contracts and negotiations to handle. Even though Bandai Namco is working on the game, doesn't mean it would be a cakewalk to put a character in.

EDIT: Because I'm an idiot, though technically Capcom's involved with Monster Hunter.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I like how R.O.B. isn't just standing around anymore.

Yeah, gives him more character.

 

[Nekoo]

I feel that it's not a matter of how you use the character, just the character itself.

No, that's wrong. That's literally how contract are made for characters, IT IS the "how you use the characters" not just "The characters itself"

cf:
-Mickey being used in only one Scene in KH I and only having a contract for ONE scene and Nomura literally decided to make the story about that ONLY scene in the contract of "let's find the king" and making him appears at the end.
- All of the characters contract in Wreck it Ralph where each company specifically tried to make sure HOW Disney had to use their characters
- Sonic being allowed to be ONLY shade of blue in Smash, alongside Pac-man only being Yellow
- All of the Roger-Rabbit deal wich was a cluster**** and Disney/Warner making sure each of their characters had the SAME screentime/Lines
-Leaked contract for Pokemon merchandising explaining exactly that it's HOW YOU USE the character that is important depending on your licences

etc...etc...etc...

the list is long, but there tons of others exemples.

 

[osby]

Who do you guys think have the best artwork / character poses? I personally really like Captain Falcon, Shulk, Simon and Snake. I think I like Corrin’s character pose the least.

ultzss:(her first game render), they all look awesome, it's hard to decide.

Least favourite? look a bit awkward but no biggie.

 

[AreJay25]

Who do you guys think have the best artwork / character poses? I personally really like Captain Falcon, Shulk, Simon and Snake. I think I like Corrin’s character pose the least.

I'm quite fond of Sonic and Meta Knight's. Wolf and Ike's are also really cool.

 

[TheCJBrine]

No, that's wrong. That's literally how contract are made for characters, IT IS the "how you use the characters" not just "The characters itself"

cf:
-Mickey being used in only one Scene in KH I and only having a contract for ONE scene and Nomura literally decided to make the story about that ONLY scene in the contract of "let's find the king" and making him appears at the end.
- All of the characters contract in Wreck it Ralph where each company specifically tried to make sure HOW Disney had to use their characters
- Sonic being allowed to be ONLY shade of blue in Smash, alongside Pac-man only being Yellow
- All of the Roger-Rabbit deal wich was a cluster**** and Disney/Warner making sure each of their characters had the SAME screentime/Lines
-Leaked contract for Pokemon merchandising explaining exactly that it's HOW YOU USE the character that is important depending on your licences

etc...etc...etc...

the list is long, but there tons of others exemples.

Alright, I understand now.

Still, they didn't mind him using Cloud or whatever, Nomura even wondering why not a more-recent character. They may have no problem with Sakurai using Geno as a character, we just don't know. They're already advertised, so they may just want money and credit.

 

[CroonerMike]

I hope Geno gets in so I can see the famous “well Geno was an obvious choice” and “I mean, it was obvious he was going to get in. He’s popular” “I knew Geno would get In”

Most of all these usually come from the nay-
sayers.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I hope Geno gets in so I can see the famous “well Geno was an obvious choice” and “I mean, it was obvious he was going to get in. He’s popular” “I knew Geno would get In”

Most of all these usually come from the nay-
sayers.

That's not the reason I want to see Geno make it in, but you do you...

 

[TheCJBrine]

I hope Geno gets in so I can see the famous “well Geno was an obvious choice” and “I mean, it was obvious he was going to get in. He’s popular” “I knew Geno would get In”

Most of all these usually come from the nay-
sayers.

I'd like to see that with Steve, even though I actually want him and Geno in as I like them

 

[Nekoo]

Alright, I understand now.

Still, they didn't mind him using Cloud or whatever, Nomura even wondering why not a more-recent character. They may have no problem with Sakurai using Geno as a character, we just don't know. They're already advertised, so they may just want money and credit.

To be fair, they had Nomura working alongside Sakurai as a supervisor EXPLICITELY to make sure the characters is used and right to it's portrayal.
I wonder who would be the "supervisor" if Geno gets in...Anyone from the core SMRPG still at Square? Or would they let Sakurai completely handle it by himself?

I hope Geno gets in so I can see the famous “well Geno was an obvious choice” and “I mean, it was obvious he was going to get in. He’s popular” “I knew Geno would get In”

Most of all these usually come from the nay-
sayers.

To be fair, Geno is the most Likely Square-Enix rep nonetheless, just that people shouldn't take him as a lock, since Upsets always happens every smash games

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I like how everyone think that Sakurai is the one who can pick Geno when in the end it's Square who say yes or no.
I really hope for Sakurai that they were in a good day, because, I don't think Square are the one lending a characters if they have nothing to win in the story.

Which is literally the biggest problem for Geno.
They might have accepted as a Mii Costume, but they might not accept Geno to represent their Company in smash next to Cloud.

That's basically, Geno's issue, this and MAYBE relevance as in like, Square wanting to use a characters more recent.

Pretty much this. If Square Enix isn't on board with the idea of Geno being playable in Smash, then there is simply nothing that Sakurai can do. Even he admitted that both companies (Nintendo and said hypothetical third-party company) must want a third-party character to join the battle.

 

[Pyra]

That's not the reason I want to see Geno make it in, but you do you...

Everyone only wants characters in to see the Kirby hats, we know

Rotty Tops kirby hat when

 

[Flyboy]

Man you're kinda making me want Wave Race in just for the sake of your posts aging really well

It breaks my heart because it started as me joking with a friend about the most out-there character so I could keep him entertained at work and now I kinda want some kind of Wave Race representation just because of that.

The dream will never come true.

 

[Noipoi]

I hope Geno gets in so I can see the famous “well Geno was an obvious choice” and “I mean, it was obvious he was going to get in. He’s popular” “I knew Geno would get In”

Most of all these usually come from the nay-
sayers.

If this happens with Incineroar i'm gonna laugh.
I was right here when Decidueye was the obvious choice, don't even try me.

 

[Nekoo]

If this happens with Incineroar i'm gonna laugh.
I was right here when Decidueye was the obvious choice, don't even try me.

Oh god, same, HAHAHAHA remember when we though Springman was a lock.

Also, I'm still lmaoing at people saying that Cloud was obviously going to get cut.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Rotty Tops kirby hat when

Okay, I need this in my life. Right now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Today, it's the brothers' turn.

Everyone only wants characters in to see the Kirby hats, we know

Rotty Tops kirby hat when

Weeeell, that's more of a partial reason, besides genuinely wanting the character in question.

It doesn't surprise me that people asked for a Goomba, people unironically wanted a Knuckle Joe in Brawl, and that was only because it had an episode in the Kirby anime.
I was happy when they announced it as an assist trophy because finally people stopped requesting him and started to focus on the more consistent characters from that series
but it didn't last for too long sadly

It's so boring that people go for a normal Goomba when Goombario and Goombella exist, yet are all for Paper Mario. Double standards, folks.

I think people like to latch on to unlikely characters so they can feel good when they're right and not care when they're wrong. It has nothing to do with actually believing the character will get in.

Sadly, people like me and Arcadenik are a rare breed, given that.

 

[Noipoi]

Oh god, same, HAHAHAHA remember when we though Springman was a lock.

Also, I'm still lmaoing at people saying that Cloud was obviously going to get cut.

There's totally gonna be cuts guys! My bets on Luigi.

Oh how wrong we were.
To be fair we didn't know Everyone is Here was gonna be a thing, but it's still funny looking back.

 

[osby]

Oh god, same, HAHAHAHA remember when we though Springman was a lock.

Also, I'm still lmaoing at people saying that Cloud was obviously going to get cut.

;^; I still want Spring Man, though.

And "Cloud is a guarantee for cuts" while annoying, wasn't unique to him. People were expecting a lot of cuts and most of them were directed towards characters that don't fit their ideal rosters, rather than well-thought arguments. That's why it was so satisfying watching "Everyone is Here" trailer giving them the middle finger.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

He got less votes than Goomba in one of the Melee polls though. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

No, but people keep getting way too attached to that single quote and act like it makes Geno really likely. Sakurai also wanted Ayumi Tachibana and Takamaru in Smash. Does that mean they're likely too?

I think people like to latch on to unlikely characters so they can feel good when they're right and not care when they're wrong. It has nothing to do with actually believing the character will get in.

I couldn't resist

It's only speculation at this point... mostly based on fan made rules and opinions. If people want to believe Geno is likely, there's not much you can do about it.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I couldn't resist

It's only speculation at this point... mostly based on fan made rules and opinions. If people want to beleive Geno is likely, there's not much you can do about it.

That is a god tier gif. Thank you.