Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

I never saw Smash Flash 2 as a clone game.

But if it is so, it would obviously be the best one that i have played.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sakurai doesn't seem to really mind wasted potential if you ask me

Dark Pit doesn’t get to have potential cause he’s still a Pit. He’s the Ying Yang to his Yo

What is the worst and/or best Smash Bros clone that you have played?

In my case, the best would be Brawhalla. Not sure about the worst one.

Cartoon Network for both

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai framing clones as "Echos" really was a genius move on his part. If Dark Samus or Daisy had been added to Brawl or Smash 4, their respective fans would have been livid, especially since one of the biggest struggles of those fanbases was arguing that those characters were unique enough to be original characters. He managed to move the fan goal posts from "I'd rather them not be playable than a clone" to "as long as they're playable, I don't care" with a single word.

 

[ZenythSmash]

....what? http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/435603858

suspicious

 

[Iko MattOrr]

My Zelda most wanted list is

-Ganon
-Tingle
-Tetra

I wouldn't mind Vaati as well, though I'm not sure if he's important enough to deserves a spot in Smash.
Yes, he appeared in more than 1 game, but the other games he appeared in are minor spin-offs, and even the main game he appeared in is often overlooked and definitely not one of the most important games (I love it though, Minish Cap is awesome).

As for Impa, I think that Sheik already represents the Sheikah well enough, having 2 Sheikah would be a bit confusing IMO. If you ask me, I would replace Sheik with Impa, because Sheik only appeared in one game (and only in one part of said game) and Impa is a recurring character... though as long as Sheik is in, I think Impa would be a bit redundant.

Skull Kid is cool design-wise, but I can't see his moveset potential. I'd be totally ok with him if Sakurai finds a way to make him playable, though I wouldn't expect him to be in the game. Also, while he's a main character in Majora's Mask (that's also my favorite game in the series), he also appeared as a generic enemy in Ocarina of Time, and as a minor NPC in Twilight Princess, so I'm not sure if he's Smash material at all (don't hate me).

I don't think there are other valid choices aside of one-off NPCs.

-----------

About my choices:

Ganon is just as important as Ganondorf. I know that he appears as a final smash, but he has an estabilished classic design too, the blue pig with the trident.
That specific version of the character appeared in several games, even more games than Ganondorf, and I think he's imporant and unique enough to deserve a spot.

Tingle is the funny meme character. Yeah, he's a meme character, but meme characters and funny-looking ones have been part of Smash since the very beginning, and I think that he would add variety to the roster. He has some moveset potential, based on the spin-off games he appeared in (as a protagonist) and the concept of rupees, that's one of the main elements of the series. He can reference Balloon Fight as well (like Villager).

Tetra would be the toon equivalent of Sheik. Differently from the other toon characters, she would have an unique gameplay with the theme of being a pirate. Tetra only appeared in 1 game, but she was a main character in it, and even if she didn't appear in other games (aside Hyrule Warriors), she's technically still Toon Zelda, and could transform into Toon Zelda during her final smash too.

-----------

Another character I would like is Young Link decloned, with the ocarina and the mask transformations in the moveset (possibly renamed as "Hero of Time Link", or even just "Hero of Time").

 

[Deleted member]

Best: Super Smash Flash 2
Worst: Super Smash Bros Crusade

This is factually incorrect sense Crusade has a playable Tingle and blessed us with JINO WURL.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai framing clones as "Echos" really was a genius move on his part. If Dark Samus or Daisy had been added to Brawl or Smash 4, their respective fans would have been livid, especially since one of the biggest struggles of those fanbases was arguing that those characters were unique enough to be original characters. He managed to move the fan goal posts from "I'd rather them not be playable than a clone" to "as long as they're playable, I don't care" with a single word.

Most of my hype in regards to Dark Samus is directed to the amiibo, tbh.

Besides that, i am excited to get more characters from one of my four favourite franchises in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

This is factually incorrect sense Crusade has a playable Tingle and blessed us with JINO WURL.

Crusade also has Crash Bandicoot.

 

[MBRedboy31]

What is the worst and/or best Smash Bros clone that you have played?

In my case, the best would be Brawhalla. Not sure about the worst one.

If fangames count, then Super Smash Flash 2. If not, my personal preference to play is Slap City.

If fangames count, then the worst would probably be some Scratch project I played a long time ago... for something people actually remember, Super Smash Flash 1. If not, I’d need to play some more of some of these games to have a proper opinion. I do have to say that Brawlout seems inferior from what I’ve played, though. Indie Game Battle has an awkward lack of features due to its cancellation, but it partially makes up for it at least slightly due to surprisingly many characters and stages for its price.

 

[Pyra]

Sakurai framing clones as "Echos" really was a genius move on his part. If Dark Samus or Daisy had been added to Brawl or Smash 4, their respective fans would have been livid, especially since one of the biggest struggles of those fanbases was arguing that those characters were unique enough to be original characters. He managed to move the fan goal posts from "I'd rather them not be playable than a clone" to "as long as they're playable, I don't care" with a single word.

It's all in the marketing.

Not that I wouldn't be okay with Impa being a clone regardless. *shrug*
I wasn't ever on the clonehate train.

Though I never particularly liked Dark Pit before or after his symbolic promotion.

 

[osby]

Sakurai framing clones as "Echos" really was a genius move on his part. If Dark Samus or Daisy had been added to Brawl or Smash 4, their respective fans would have been livid, especially since one of the biggest struggles of those fanbases was arguing that those characters were unique enough to be original characters. He managed to move the fan goal posts from "I'd rather them not be playable than a clone" to "as long as they're playable, I don't care" with a single word.

You can thank the localisation team for the exact word, but yeah, it's astonishing what marketing can accomplish.

 

[Pakky]

....what? http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/435603858

BAHAAH no...

A Boss? maybe

 

[Deleted member]

*takes a shot*

Skull Kid is Vaatidorf


I forgot about PSASBR but honestly I enjoy that more than Brawlhalla. And that's saying something, cause ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I like Brawhalla well enough, specially since items are balanved around the core gameplay. Just with movesets were more complex

 

[Deleted member]

BAHAAH no...

A Boss? maybe

*Insert earraping scream of agony"

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Dark Pit doesn’t get to have potential cause he’s still a Pit. He’s the Ying Yang to his Yo

I mean, He could've used his staff a bit more...

 

[shinhed-echi]

What is the worst and/or best Smash Bros clone that you have played?

In my case, the best would be Brawhalla. Not sure about the worst one.

For me it's a coin toss between Rivals of Aether and TMNT Smash Up.

RoA is by far better designed. But I like TMNT Smash Up better. It just felt like an incomplete game. I think it intended to have 8-directional inputs, but they stopped at 6.
It's floaty and akward, but it's Smash with TMNT so I love it.

If Icons were to recycle and include some of those movesets somehow, I'd be all over that game.


As for worst:
Either Star Wars TFU2's multiplayer mode, or Battle D.O.N.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Still, Smash 64's marketing is some of best out there, I'd say.

 

[prowler12]

What is the worst and/or best Smash Bros clone that you have played?

In my case, the best would be Brawhalla. Not sure about the worst one.

my best would be stick fight. the worst would be brawlhalla.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, He could've used his staff a bit more...

The staff could have redeemed him for me.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'd love to get a Champion from BotW, but I'm not sure how likely that is now that we're almost six weeks away from release.

See, box or not, the fact that we are 6-7 weeks from release (crazy!) and that we will know all characters before release leads me to believe we are only getting 2-3 more characters max. At this point I don't think we are getting a random trailer drop & a direct, there's only so much time left for reveals. I only see 2-3 unique character reveals in a direct, and 3 is really pushing it imo. Echoes is where it's kind of open to whatever because according to the last direct Sakurai is ok with dropping a couple like it's no big deal.

But I think we need to face the time constraint and not expect more than like...4 total characters? It would be nice to get 5 more and leave us at a total 14 newcomers like Melee, but I don't know about that lol.

People only say Impa should have a weapon because of a spin-off game, in the main games she doesn't wield a weapon and is more magic/ninja based.

So she would be represented really well as a Sheik echo. Remember that Sheik got a new final smash that's more Sheikah based. Plus it would be nice to have her in her SS design to rep that game.

So in conclusion we'd have:

(BotW)
(LttP)
(OoT/BotW)
(OoT)
(OoT/possibly MM)
(WW/FS/PH/ST)

In terms of 3D games all that would be missing is SS and TP. If we get Skull Kid as a newcomer and Young Link gets Fierce Deity as a final smash they would obviously rep MM. Impa would rep SS, and maybe Ganondorf gets Twilight Ganondorf as an alt costume to rep TP.

I am of the opinion that SS needs a rep - Impa, and that TP is fine because it had large representation from two recent Smash games

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What is the worst and/or best Smash Bros clone that you have played?

In my case, the best would be Brawhalla. Not sure about the worst one.

*Cough* *Cough* *Cough*

Never have I ever seen a more soulless cash-in, than this game...
That being said, it still had a pretty great soundtrack.
Also, why isn't my boi, Parappa on the box?
As for best, probably Smash Flash 2

 

[osby]

This is factually incorrect sense Crusade has a playable Tingle and blessed us with JINO WURL.

Jokes aside, Crusade is exactly what "quantity over quality" means, not adding clones like some fans accuse Sakurai of. There are a ton of newcomers but hardly any of them feels unique. Add to that their weird slot ideas and roster overall feels very unsatisfying.

 

[Deleted member]

Jokes aside, Crusade is exactly what "quantity over quality" means, not adding clones like some fans accuse Sakurai of. There are a ton of newcomers but hardly any of them feels unique. Add to that their weird slot ideas and roster overall feels very unsatisfying.

I still hope that Smash Flash 2 adds Crash Bandicoot somehow.

 

[osby]

*Cough* *Cough* *Cough*

Never have I ever seen a more soulless cash-in, than this game...
That being said, it still had a pretty great soundtrack.

It showed a suprising amount of care for the characters and stages imo, but I'm not which parts else I can praise. I'll still insist on it would be a pretty decent game if it got any real support from the Sony.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Ranking them:

RoA
TMNT:SU
Jump Superstars / Ultimate Stars
CN PunchTime Explosion
Dream Mix TV
Brawlhalla
Naruto Ultimate Ninja (something... PS2)
PSASBR
SWTFU2 multiplayer
Battle DON


Never really cared for Super Smash Flash 2.

 

[Deleted member]

It showed a suprising amount of care for the characters and stages imo, but I'm not which parts else I can praise. I'll still insist on it would be a pretty decent game if it got any real support from the Sony.

The mistake of PSAS was the fact that they gave the project a low budget, when Smash is a game done with a higher one.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

....what? http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/435603858

I don't care of 4chan leaks because they are almost always fake, though this would make me extremely happy. I prefer Adeleine without any doubt, but I would be pretty satisfied if Marx is the Kirby newcomer too.

 

[Deleted member]

I have one question about Brawl:

Besides asking for Snake, did Kojima participate in the development in any form?

 

[MSmariosonic]

I have one question about Brawl:

Besides asking for Snake, did Kojima participate in the development in any form?

He designed Shadow Moses Island

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It showed a suprising amount of care for the characters and stages imo, but I'm not which parts else I can praise. I'll still insist on it would be a pretty decent game if it got any real support from the Sony.

My main problem with the game is that, most of the legitmate PlayStation all-stars (aside from a few) are owned by other companies, like Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Cloud, and Lara Croft... Sony owns team Ico, do they not? Yet they didn't add a single one of their characters like Ico, or the Wanderer... The game was just kind of wasted potential for me... (that being said, character additions like Parappa, Kratos, Nathan Drake, Jak, Ratchet, Sackboy, and even Big Daddy kinda made sense imo)

 

[Dyllybirdy]

He designed Shadow Moses Island

Really? That's an interesting titbit. :0

 

[osby]

The mistake of PSAS was the fact that they gave the project a low budget, when Smash is a game done with a higher one.

Was Smash 64 even a high budget project? I've always thought it had more to do with Iwata's involment. But you're right about later games.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Slap City and Rivals of Aether both have pieces of my heart.

But Brawlhalla can be thrown straight in the traaaaaaaash.

 

[Robertman2]

It showed a suprising amount of care for the characters and stages imo, but I'm not which parts else I can praise. I'll still insist on it would be a pretty decent game if it got any real support from the Sony.

It'd need a complete overhaul to be good.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

*Sees 30 new pages*


Ok what exactly did i miss.

 

[Deleted member]

Jokes aside, Crusade is exactly what "quantity over quality" means, not adding clones like some fans accuse Sakurai of. There are a ton of newcomers but hardly any of them feels unique. Add to that their weird slot ideas and roster overall feels very unsatisfying.

Crusade’s roster is great because it’s like 3 different eras of people, all with different ideas, and with completely incompatible ideas for what the game should be. It started as 4 people making a Smash game with whatever characters they wanted specifically wanted (this is where Ristar, Mach Rider, Chun-Li, and Goku came from.) Other planned characters include a trio of Kirby helpers that would switch with down special, and Acro the Acrobat. Most of the current cast was made by this team. Sense there was only 4 people, quality control was low.

Chun-Li is notable for being the only character to ever be considered to be cut, as all teams had a Sakurai like attitude of “X character had fans, so no matter how stupid, they stay.” Chunners is the exception, sense she was put in for demo v0.7, which only had two characters, and they felt that wasn’t enough.

Control of the game past to another team around 2011. This team attempted to legitimize the roster by dropping most of the wacky planned characters, though some oddities remain. For example, there’s the botched implementation of Weegee, who was meant to be an ultra secret character, with no real indication that he had been unlocked, accessed by toggling Luigi’s eyes. He was a normal alternate character instead. Snivy also came in at this time. Snivy was intended as a gift for the guy who programmed online mode, but was then promoted to a slot on the (possibly scrapped) Unova Pokemon Trainer alternate character for PT. Sense Snivy was complete, she was made playable. Spriters also had free reign to work on whoever, which is why you have Geno getting in before Bowser, or Tingle before Zelda.

Today, the game is developed behind closed doors, with an emphasis on redoing most of the existing cast. The roster has likely been overhauled again, sense Shantae was not on either of the previous rosters. I’d wager that no cuts will be made though.

But yeah, it is a weird roster, and that’s part of the game's charm. I totally get why it would be a turn off though.

 

[Deleted member]

Slap City and Rivals of Aether both have pieces of my heart.

But Brawlhalla can be thrown straight in the traaaaaaaash.

I already clarified that i prefer Smash Flash 2.

I just didn't count it as a clone.

Was Smash 64 even a high budget project? I've always thought it had more to do with Iwata's involment. But you're right about later games.

Smash 64 is the exception, of course.

But PSAS tried to stand against Brawl and Smash 4, so the high budget was important then.

 

[Robertman2]

Weegee being in Crusade is great because it's a throwback to YouTube Poops of my childhood

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Weegee being in Crusade is great because it's a throwback to YouTube Poops of my childhood

Wow, what a fruitful childhood.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I already clarified that i prefer Smash Flash 2.

I just didn't count it as a clone.

Uhhh... that wasn't pointed at you, buddy.

I was stating my own opinion like everyone else.